50907 réponses à ce sujet

[scmadsen]

First off...the Shadow Broker failed the Collectors, who work for the Reapers...do you really think they are gonna be happy about this? I find it hard to believe they would just let him off the hook, after Liara takes back Shepard. Thus it stands to reason, the Shadow Broker would promise to get the body back, to save his own ass.

Now for one, the Shadow Broker doesn't have an army...at best, he could hire mercs to go after Liara. Liara could take care of that easy.

Secondly, the Shadow Broker doesn't kill Liara, even if he could, because he needs her. He has no idea where Shepard is, since Cerberus is hiding the station where the body is.

Wilson might of been working for the Shadow Broker for the money, but only at the very end. And he failed in his mission, thus the Shadow Broker doesn't know where Shepard is, once Shepard leaves the station. That is if Wilson told the Shadow Broker where it was, before hacking the bots.

I don't see anyway, that the Shadow Broker could figure out where Shepard would go. Thus he has to cover his bases. Telling his agents to watch for Shepard.

But, he knows someone that would know...Liara.

He knows Liara stole the body and took it somewhere...given that Liara doesn't have it with her...he has no idea where she took it. Thus he watches her, waiting for her to say something about where it is.

She never does, and then Shepard shows up. Liara worries that the Shepard standing in front of her...might not be the real deal...or might just be an empty shell...she has two things to worry about there.

She also knows, that the Shadow Broker is listening to her, waiting for her to talk about Cerberus and Shepard.

This explains why the Shadow Broker doesn't kill Liara...and it explains why Liara won't talk to Shepard openly. And only after the agent is taken care of, will she open up and tell Shepard about Cerberus and what she did.

This still doesn't explain Shepard in that scene, but I'll leave that to, the game not letting us say anything, because Liara can't go with Shepard.

Modifié par scmadsen, 25 avril 2010 - 03:38 .

[Unata]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

But other explanaton could be that Liara after all posess something too vluable for SB and what might be used to compromise his position in general.

I would have said the data cache that Liara is in possession of that details the full extent of his deal with the Collectors, and by proxy the Reapers, but I don't think he's aware that Liara has this data, or that she knows about what he's done.

I think this data cache will serve it's purpose later on, when it turns out Liara has known that the Shadow Broker is aiding the Reapers, and has been working to stop him in order to cripple a possible way the Reapers could exert their dominance over the galaxy when they invade.

Doesn't make sense for the Shadow Broker to know any connection between the Collectors and the Reapers, first of all in ME1 you have Geth/Reapers with no indication of Collectors being other then an enigmatic group looking for wierd things on their own. SB would be defeating his/her own purpose by aiding the Reapers, no intelligent life, no reason to broker information and would take thousands of years for the next group to advance enough to find the Citadel.
I just don't see how they (BW) can justifiy that SB would know of the connection, unless of course SB was a Reaper but that doesn't make much sense either for them to "broker" for the Collectors, the comic does say the reward for Shepard's body was well worth it.
I do agree how ever that Liara's having that information Feron hacked, is the only thing keeping her alive, He would have just snuffed her outright for what she did, Nyxaris was there to find it but couldn't until she could ingratiate herself with Liara.

[Erinlana]

Liara

[scmadsen]

It's nothing new, I said this before. Back when everyone thought it was Cerberus keeping Liara from talking. I thought it was really the Shadow Broker...but then everyone has no faith in Liara to protect herself...and they think the Shadow Broker would kill Liara.

Liara needs to kill the Shadow Broker, because even if Shepard finds a way to stop the Collectors, the galaxy at large isn't going to know. Maybe rumors, but that isn't enough proof, as it could just be spread to stop the Shadow Broker from trying to get his hands on Shepard. Thus, Liara knows, that Shepard is in danger any time she/he leaves the Normandy. She is hunting the Shadow Broker, because he won't stop until he has Shepard, dead or alive.

If you really want to kill someone, it's rather easy, Shepard can't be safe all the time. Liara knows that. The only way, for Shepard to be safe, is for the Shadow Broker to die.

Modifié par scmadsen, 25 avril 2010 - 03:52 .

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

He wouldn't kill Liara though as he doesn't know what she's done with it, or where she's hidden it. He kills her, it's still out there somewhere. He can't leave a loose end like that. He needs that data. But like I said though, I don't think he's aware that Liara is in possession of it.

Remember though, Noxis, on Ilos Vigil said that one of the reasons that the Reapers utilise the Citadel relay is because they instantaneously gain all knowledge of galactic civilization, including but not limited to each race's government, their militaries, the economy, everything. Now that they've lost the Citadel relay, they're stuck without having any information about the races they're going to be wiping out. They see the Shadow Broker as a useful tool for this, and an alternative way in which to acquire information about galactic civilization. So, if they apply a soft indoctrination method to him, similar to Saren, they could use him as a weapon, a tool. Promise him salvation like they did with Saren, and then manipulate him so that he serves his purpose. Also, TIM, the Shadow Broker's chief rival in the information field is aware of the Reapers' existence and their connection to the Collectors, so logic dictates that the Shadow Broker is aware of it too. The Reapers would keep the Shadow Broker under their wing right up until their invasion is imminent, as information about militaries, economics and governments changes on a daily basis. What he tells them two years prior to the invasion would be of no use at all when they start their harvest. They need to keep him around.

Plus, we know from ME1 that the Shadow Broker trades in information that can topple governments. There's another use for the Reapers. Just as the invasion is beginning, have the Shadow Broker release this information and throw the governments of sapient species into disarray, create distrust amongst the species. It ends all hope of there being a unified alliance of the galaxy's life forms. The Shadow Broker is useful to the Reapers.

And I think Liara knows that. She's aware of the bigger picture regarding the Reaper plot. She knows that the Shadow Broker is a menace that has to be stopped, and could potentially cripple organic life in this upcoming war.

Well in that case he could still attempt to capture Liara and torture her to get the location of the cache out of her,that would be faster then infiltration and again he had two years to do it and Liara didnt start out in the position she is now.

As for the citadell well overall Sovereigns defeat just bought time as in the reapers need longer to locate colonies etc,but since I dont see them as idiots its safe to say they will aim for the citadell as one of their first targets,so I would say the SBs use is quite limited and if they really control him as I said they will have taken the info already or to put it better the collectors have even two years old info doesnt make that much of difference colonies dont change location a few births and deaths dont matter and defences well there is still nothing in galaxy to really match a reaper not even talking about multiple ones

And on using the SB to cause conflicts well if that was the case there should have been indications of that in the game but there are none,causing a civil takes time as does causing an economical crises so the SB should already be working on it.
On a sidenote I guess in case of the total renegade outcome of ME1 I would say the reapers dont even need the SB for that since the humans did his job in that cas more or less

As for if Liara really knows that I wouldnt really sign to that idea,basicly its all pretty much up in the air with her story arc with a lot of possibilties where to take it

[Noxis6]

scmadsen wrote...

First off...the Shadow Broker failed the Collectors, who work for the Reapers...do you really think they are gonna be happy about this? I find it hard to believe they would just let him off the hook, after Liara takes back Shepard. Thus it stands to reason, the Shadow Broker would promise to get the body back, to save his own ass.

Now for one, the Shadow Broker doesn't have an army...at best, he could hire mercs to go after Liara. Liara could take care of that easy.

Secondly, the Shadow Broker doesn't kill Liara, even if he could, because he needs her. He has no idea where Shepard is, since Cerberus is hiding the station where the body is.

Wilson might of been working for the Shadow Broker for the money, but only at the very end. And he failed in his mission, thus the Shadow Broker doesn't know where Shepard is, once Shepard leaves the station. That is if Wilson told the Shadow Broker where it was, before hacking the bots.

I don't see anyway, that the Shadow Broker could figure out where Shepard would go. Thus he has to cover his bases. Telling his agents to watch for Shepard.

But, he knows someone that would know...Liara.

He knows Liara stole the body and took it somewhere...given that Liara doesn't have it with her...he has no idea where she took it. Thus he watches her, waiting for her to say something about where it is.

She never does, and then Shepard shows up. Liara worries that the Shepard standing in front of her...might not be the real deal...or might just be an empty shell...she has two things to worry about there.

She also knows, that the Shadow Broker is listening to her, waiting for her to talk about Cerberus and Shepard.

This explains why the Shadow Broker doesn't kill Liara...and it explains why Liara won't talk to Shepard openly. And only after the agent is taken care of, will she open up and tell Shepard about Cerberus and what she did.

This still doesn't explain Shepard in that scene, but I'll leave that to, the game not letting us say anything, because Liara can't go with Shepard.

Problem with that is the SB makes no attempt to capture Shepard nor does he attempt to get the body in two years,if you bring up Wilson yeah could be but frankly if that is the case it should have been explained.
And also yes there is a hint that Shepard might have a bounty on his/her head in purgatory but frankly that could have been put out by the collectors themselves since they are known to do so

Besides why would he need Liara to know where Shepard is she leaves the body with Cerberus and has no contact with them after that,besides does he even know or guess what Cerberus will do with the corpse.
Also in case of an resurrected Shepard its safe to assume the SBs network covers Omega,he doesnt need to wait till Shepard shows up on Illium,even if you assume that at no point in the game the SB acts upon it

In terms of killing her well despite Liaras skills and what the comic shows shes not invincible and there are more than enough people in the ME galaxy that kill for money plus enough ways to kill without direct combat so if he wanted her dead I would say the SB would be able to accomplish it

[ratzerman]

Somebody1003 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

How did you do this?

Never going to see this for real...... Bioware hates us..... wants to see us suffer........

[scmadsen]

@ Noxis

He doesn't seem to make an attempt, because he can't find Shepard...lack of results, does not mean lack of trying.

For all we know, Feron talked, which leads the Shadow Broker to Wilson in a round about way. Feron knows about Cerberus, but I don't think he'd know where the station is that Shepard was taken to. So the Shadow Broker has to blindly go thru known Cerberus agents till finding someone that knows anything and is willing to sell that information...a long process.

Wilson might of been loyal at one point, and it took who knows how long to break him down...greed ending up being what made him figure he'd sell out.

We have no proof the Shadow Broker has an army or a fleet...it fact, I think he has little more then spies. And what merc group is gonna take a contract to kill Shepard, a Specter, the most badass one ever, it seems.

The Shadow Broker knows Liara is his best bet to finding information on Shepard...she takes the body...goes somewhere...then shows back up without the body...pretty easy to tell she took it somewhere and would know where that somewhere is.

If the Shadow Broker knew where the body was, he'd of made a move...most likely being giving that information to the Collectors, and their ship would of shown up at the station. Taken the body, and everyone else, and made goo.

Setting aside, that no sane person would take a hit contract on Shepard, and maybe not Liara...she says herself, people are scared of her...even if and when the Shadow Broker learns that Shepard is on Omega, once Shepard leaves, he'd have no idea where he would go. Would he have time to make a move anyway.

The Shadow Broker doesn't make contact with people, only thru agents, that kind of chain is safe, but data travels slowly.

The best bet for the Shadow Broker, is to watch Liara and hope she slips up and says something about where the body is...and when he learns Shepard is alive...his best bet again, is to watch Liara...knowing the two of them are likely to meet again. He just has to be ready...but in all likelihood, Shepard leaves Illium before he can act.

Thus this is why we never see the Shadow Broker attack Shepard. The way he does things, means he can't act quickly enough. And Shepard never stays in one place long enough.

Modifié par scmadsen, 25 avril 2010 - 04:24 .

[ratzerman]

Somebody1003 wrote...
Imagine how great it would be though.

Can't . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . hurts too much.

[Sunnie]

Good morning! *hugs*

[Erinlana]

scmadsen wrote...

It's nothing new, I said this before. Back when everyone thought it was Cerberus keeping Liara from talking. I thought it was really the Shadow Broker...but then everyone has no faith in Liara to protect herself...and they think the Shadow Broker would kill Liara.

Liara needs to kill the Shadow Broker, because even if Shepard finds a way to stop the Collectors, the galaxy at large isn't going to know. Maybe rumors, but that isn't enough proof, as it could just be spread to stop the Shadow Broker from trying to get his hands on Shepard. Thus, Liara knows, that Shepard is in danger any time she/he leaves the Normandy. She is hunting the Shadow Broker, because he won't stop until he has Shepard, dead or alive.

If you really want to kill someone, it's rather easy, Shepard can't be safe all the time. Liara knows that. The only way, for Shepard to be safe, is for the Shadow Broker to die.

I think Liara is more than capable of killing the shadow broker ,  as we have seen when meeting her on Illium she has  ways of dealing with her problem's e.g the double agent .

[Noxis6]

scmadsen wrote...

@ Noxis

He doesn't seem to make an attempt, because he can't find Shepard...lack of results, does not mean lack of trying.

For all we know, Feron talked, which leads the Shadow Broker to Wilson in a round about way. Feron knows about Cerberus, but I don't think he'd know where the station is that Shepard was taken to. So the Shadow Broker has to blindly go thru known Cerberus agents till finding someone that knows anything and is willing to sell that information...a long process.

Wilson might of been loyal at one point, and it took who knows how long to break him down...greed ending up being what made him figure he'd sell out.

We have no proof the Shadow Broker has an army or a fleet...it fact, I think he has little more then spies. And what merc group is gonna take a contract to kill Shepard, a Specter, the most badass one ever, it seems.

The Shadow Broker knows Liara is his best bet to finding information on Shepard...she takes the body...goes somewhere...then shows back up without the body...pretty easy to tell she took it somewhere and would know where that somewhere is.

If the Shadow Broker knew where the body was, he'd of made a move...most likely being giving that information to the Collectors, and their ship would of shown up at the station. Taken the body, and everyone else, and made goo.

Setting aside, that no sane person would take a hit contract on Shepard, and maybe not Liara...she says herself, people are scared of her...even if and when the Shadow Broker learns that Shepard is on Omega, once Shepard leaves, he'd have no idea where he would go. Would he have time to make a move anyway.

The Shadow Broker doesn't make contact with people, only thru agents, that kind of chain is safe, but data travels slowly.

The best bet for the Shadow Broker, is to watch Liara and hope she slips up and says something about where the body is...and when he learns Shepard is alive...his best bet again, is to watch Liara...knowing the two of them are likely to meet again. He just has to be ready...but in all likelihood, Shepard leaves Illium before he can act.

Thus this is why we never see the Shadow Broker attack Shepard. The way he does things, means he can't act quickly enough. And Shepard never stays in one place long enough.

As I said I'm pretty sure his agents reported at least someone looking like Shepard once s/he showed his/her face on Omega,bottom line the SB knows and he doesnt act upon it never ever in the game and there are enough ways to lure Shepard into a trap
As for Wilson I said its possible,but the game doesnt bother to explain it TIM just says hes a traitor and thats that

I doubt the SB has a fleet maybe a few ships,well at least in the cut Legion/Liara thing he had one and in case of killing Shepard I would bet there are groups that would take such a contract the Blood Pack for example since their Krogan I think they would consider Shepard a worthy opponent and in case of sucess s/he would make quite a trophy

In Liaras case I kind of dont buy why people are so afraid of her,sure she helped with Saren but still,I doubt that would stop people from taking such a contract I would also assume some might consider it a challenge to kill someone like this

Modifié par Noxis6, 25 avril 2010 - 04:44 .

[Unata]

Some points:

Liara has the data cache, we don't know what all is in there other then a "maybe it has the reason why the collectors wanted Shepard", Can't see why SB would know or want to know, it would show the connection of Collector-Reaper, besides, what would you do if they told you "We need Shepard's genetic code to make a human reaper far superior then any in our massive fleet to harvest all advanced life in the Galaxy" I don't buy it, it would be a very stupid and lame idea on BW's part.

Nyxaris is/was there to get the data cache by worming her way into Liara's confidence, "It was my honor to help" she says about the information on the Observer, if that isn't brown nosing I don't know what is, then Liara says she had interesting information and leaves it at that, more stuff Liara can use I suppose.

Only thing we know about Wilson is his hang-up over Miranda, simply put he had a crush on her, but try as he may (ie: saying he could fix Shepard when she thought Shepard's boday was to far gone) he could get her to notice him that way at all, so he breaks and wants to destroy it all....old story, new twist, unrequited love. I don't see Bioware wasting time anymore on that one.

Liara knows that the mission Shepard is on is rather important and a sucide one at that, she could just feel she can't handle loosing Shepard again and wants to distance herself by claming her need to find out about Feron, I believe we will find her love for Shepard will cause her to come to her senses in ME3 even if she does or does not find Feron.

ME1 and ME2 are the "lead-up" to the final conflict, we have all the information we need to formulate how we think it will end, I don't believe BW will waste to much time on the secondary "quests", otherwise ME3 would be years and years in the making to bring about any long involved plot on any of them, it's not economic for them to waste to much time on any of them.

We do know we have the Rachni, possible Geth allies coming up, Quarian fleet, Citadel Fleet, and all the Citadel races fleets as a possible army for any large space conflict, I don't feel since ME is a shooter/RPG that BW would do much more then a spot simular to the attack on the Citadel in ME1 a build up to that point, SOMETHING Shepard has or finds or is given by possibly Liara will be the thing that ends it all much like what happened in ME1 since they didn't repeat that sort of a plot in ME2 they can sort of follow that in ME3.

Inorder for the fans to have some conclusion for the LI's, BW has to work on that because they imply it is an important decision throughout both ME1 and 2 as much as the main plot is, again I cannot see BW wasting time and money on secondary plots other then to make them small stepping stones to the final conflict and the way they have to satisfy the fanbase over the LI's endings, those two points are all that matters in ME3

Modifié par Unata, 25 avril 2010 - 04:54 .

[scmadsen]

I'll concede that perhaps the Blood Pack Krogan are the only group that would dare take the contract on Shepard. Still I say, there wasn't enough time for the Shadow Broker to make a move. Even still, the Blood Pack on Omega where busy dealing with Garrus...and spreading that plague. Which Shepard takes care of. There aren't any Blood Pack on Illium as far as we know. And it isn't so much that people are scared of Liara, but they are scared of Shepard, who she is friends with.

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Torture and interrogation is very risky and messy though. It's not a sure fire way to find out where Liara is keeping this data. Liara could easily resist torture, or they could go too far and accidentally kill her. If that's the case, then the game's up and he has no way of finding the data. The only sure-fire method is being patient, waiting it out, using espionage to try to find where Liara is hiding it. That is his speciality, after all. The world of intrigue.

As for the citadell well overall Sovereigns defeat just bought time as in the reapers need longer to locate colonies etc,but since I dont see them as idiots its safe to say they will aim for the citadell as one of their first targets,so I would say the SBs use is quite limited and if they really control him as I said they will have taken the info already or to put it better the collectors have even two years old info doesnt make that much of difference colonies dont change location a few births and deaths dont matter and defences well there is still nothing in galaxy to really match a reaper not even talking about multiple ones

With Shepard, Anderson et al now aware of the Citadel's true nature, it stands to reason that the Citadel will be alot better protected this time round. They can easily close the Ward arms, and the Citadel is impenetrable. Plus, they don't have the advantage of the Conduit anymore. There's no backdoor onto the Citadel. The Ward arms close, they aren't getting into it. Then the Reapers are screwed. They need an alternate method to gathering information of galactic civilization. The Shadow Broker provides that.

Also, in politics, the military and economics, 2 year old information is next to useless. It needs to be bang up to date, to have it's full effect. They need every single tidbit of information to conduct their genocide, and to make the invasion as efficient as possible. This information can't be out of date.

And on using the SB to cause conflicts well if that was the case there should have been indications of that in the game but there are none,causing a civil takes time as does causing an economical crises so the SB should already be working on it.

Just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there. It's perhaps something that will be explored a little later on. Or alternatively, the Shadow Broker hasn't begun this process yet as the Reaper invasion isn't imminent, and will start once Harbinger instructs him to have it's full desired effect.

Well in terms of extracting info out of someone,I'm sure the SB has some Asari among his agents and should he really be working with the reapers well theres always indoctrination or maybe the collectors have a method we dont know about

As for the Citadels true nature yes Anderson knows but offcially this claim has been dismissed,there might be a bigger fleet now but I dont know we saw the beating Sovereign and the Geth gave the Citadel fleet and I would still say the Citadel is pretty much the first target the reapers will aim for maybe they will send in indoctinated servants first if you remember they did it during the last invasion infiltrating Prothean worlds with their slaves so they wouldnt really need the conduit

As for the SB causing tensions it isnt necssary to show that but there should have been news reports or something,as for the Reaper invasion itself I'm not sure how far away it is maybe years or just months who knows

[Noxis6]

scmadsen wrote...

I'll concede that perhaps the Blood Pack Krogan are the only group that would dare take the contract on Shepard. Still I say, there wasn't enough time for the Shadow Broker to make a move. Even still, the Blood Pack on Omega where busy dealing with Garrus...and spreading that plague. Which Shepard takes care of. There aren't any Blood Pack on Illium as far as we know. And it isn't so much that people are scared of Liara, but they are scared of Shepard, who she is friends with.

Well I would say the Blood Pack is bigger,the way I see it all the merc factions are more or less splintered into various subsections that work independently so it wouldnt matter what happens on Omega.
Also well Shepard was dead two years so in that time I would say noone had to fear him/her coming after them if they hurt Liara and in the present Shepard is alive yes but I'm not sure if thats common knowledge its actually quite strange in the game,that such a fairly well connected galaxy doesnt really catch up,besides Shepards face must have been one of the most shown in the galaxy and there are still so many that dont recognize him/her.
Besides would that really stop people from putting out contracts to kill Liara,I would say its doubtfull and as said I would almost bet there are enough people that would see it as a challenge not just Krogan,I would assume someone with Thanes skills could do it too