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[screwoffreg]

Sunnie22 wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

A pessimist is what an optimist calls a realist.

LOL, My ahole boss calls me a pessimist all the time, every time I remind him that you cant shove 30 pounds of crap in a 2 pound bag. What is it with some men anyway, do we intimidate them that much???

I'll be honest. Most men are useless 

Well, not totally, there are times when heavy lifting needs brute strength /uploads_user/1070000/1069890/28195.gif

This is true.  We can't be the asari..

Interestingly enough, matrifocal societies that have existed in the past tended to be more equitable and open-minded.  Of course they are all but gone now. 

Parthenogensis (virgin births) are also likely among humans in the near future! What will us men do

Modifié par screwoffreg, 26 avril 2010 - 08:26 .

[bjdbwea]

I do not believe for a second that "ME 2" is what the writers had in mind when they created ME 1 and thought about future installments. Neither as far as the story is concerned, nor as far as the gameplay is concerned, nor as far as some character developments are concerned.

[OldMan91]

Actually, most of the character threads are pretty well-behaved these days. I can't remember the last time I popped into a character thread where the regular posters were flaming one another. Partially, I think, that's the moderators stepping in recently. Mostly, though, I think it's just the fans within the threads usually all find an equilibrium among themselves, to which there's no point of disturbing. A thread consensus, so to speak.

Well reasoned explanation. Now write me a research paper on it, and I want it to be 10,000 words!



But yeah, i'm a huge fan of Liara, as well as some other characters. When I compare this and Tali's thread... though I still visit the Tali thread occasionally just to check for fanart and stuff.

"Why do we not rule?" -Silk Fox, Jade Empire

I really liked Silk Fox, and I liked hardening her too. She made this comment about one of the things you said where she compares you to a revolutionary. I was like, "Dude! Freakin' yeah!".

[screwoffreg]

Silk Fox was hardened by the PLAYERS input though, not just circumstance. I think they may take that path with Liara, as it seems atypical Bioware road. Look at Bastila as well, who becomes "light" or "dark" depending on how you treat her.

[Nivenus]

bjdbwea wrote...

I do not believe for a second that "ME 2" is what the writers had in mind when they created ME 1 and thought about future installments. Neither as far as the story is concerned, nor as far as the gameplay is concerned, nor as far as some character developments are concerned.

Why?

They said going in that it was going to be a darker story. It was. And the changes to gameplay were in response to complaints from the fans, whether or not they were yours (or mine, for that matter).

EDIT:

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Where was there ever any foreshadowing of Liara's current character arc in ME1, though? I still remember in the run-up to ME2, when there were the initial erroneous reports that Liara was working for the Shadow Broker, and even then people were confused as it seemed to have come completely out of nowhere. That's why people find Liara's ME2 role and appearance so jarring, because there was absolutely no hint of it at all prior to ME2.

I wasn't talking specifically about this. I agree that Liara's change in personality was somewhat jarring, though Redemption helps explain this better. Essentially, Liara's a classic case of break the cutie in action.

Modifié par Nivenus, 26 avril 2010 - 08:31 .

[Nozybidaj]

Nivenus wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

I do not believe for a second that "ME 2" is what the writers had in mind when they created ME 1 and thought about future installments. Neither as far as the story is concerned, nor as far as the gameplay is concerned, nor as far as some character developments are concerned.

Why?

They said going in that it was going to be a darker story. It was. And the changes to gameplay were in response to complaints from the fans, whether or not they were yours (or mine, for that matter).

/shrug  I never found ME2 to be particularly dark, in fact I found its attempts to be dark more cartoonish than anything.  The creators clearly took a more serious attitiude toward the source material in ME1 and I found it to not only be a more mature game but parts of it were darker as well.  ME2 feels much more like a parody where we get corny lines like "well technically I'm undead derp derp!!"

I also don't see much connection at all between the two aside from some very contrived and out of place carry overs.  ME2 was nothing short of a reset of the series, I couldn't in any serious tone call it a continuation or a sequel.

[Asheer_Khan]

screwoffreg wrote...

Silk Fox was hardened by the PLAYERS input though, not just circumstance. I think they may take that path with Liara, as it seems atypical Bioware road. Look at Bastila as well, who becomes "light" or "dark" depending on how you treat her.

Actually Bast join Malak no matter how i treat her after Leviatan and heck i was so mad that despite full persuade bar i wasn't able to turn her back on that temple.
Jolee's speech about her explaining why she fall to the Dark Side was one of the greatest parts of the game.

In matter of fact if Jedi Councid did known about subject of my talks whit Bast i am pretty sure that they will kick Revan out of order again .

[screwoffreg]

Well, Bastila comes around though, as I am sure Liara will.



I didn't find ME 2 real dark either, unless you count the lighting at Afterlife. I guess there were more "bad words" but everything else was pretty tame...

[bjdbwea]

Was it darker? I would debate even that. But of course that depends on your definition of (successfully) creating a "dark" atmosphere. As for the rest, I think that would be too long and off-topic to discuss here. Suffice it to say, ME 2 is so different from ME 1 on so many levels, that I don't just see the original writers saying "hey look here, all these ideas would make the game even better!"

But let's try to focus the discussion on the Liara situation, there's already enough to criticize there.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 26 avril 2010 - 08:44 .

[Nozybidaj]

screwoffreg wrote...

Well, Bastila comes around though, as I am sure Liara will.

I didn't find ME 2 real dark either, unless you count the lighting at Afterlife. I guess there were more "bad words" but everything else was pretty tame...

They set things up to explore some 'darker themes'. Both Shep dying and being resurrected and his encoutners with Legion and the geth could have been used to explore themes like "what it means to be alive" and "what it means to be human" but they never did anythng with either of those.  They set up the "working with the devil" scenario then they basically tried to make you think the devil was a saint, I suppose so folks would be endeared toward Miranda/Jacob.  Again another theme they set up but let fall completely by the wayside.

Aside from more cursing, yeah I don't really see any attempt to make things "dark".  There were elememts put in place for it but it was never carried through on.

[Asheer_Khan]

screwoffreg wrote...

Well, Bastila comes around though, as I am sure Liara will.

I didn't find ME 2 real dark either, unless you count the lighting at Afterlife. I guess there were more "bad words" but everything else was pretty tame...

Omega was dark:P.
And speaking about cursing... you should hear Polish full localized version of ME 1 (thank the Goddess there was option to turn at original English) but what i heard for example Wrex "cursed" like old pirate after too much hallex...<_<

No ME 2 was absolute NOT too dark.

[screwoffreg]

Nozybidaj wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Well, Bastila comes around though, as I am sure Liara will.

I didn't find ME 2 real dark either, unless you count the lighting at Afterlife. I guess there were more "bad words" but everything else was pretty tame...

They set things up to explore some 'darker themes'. Both Shep dying and being resurrected and his encoutners with Legion and the geth could have been used to explore themes like "what it means to be alive" and "what it means to be human" but they never did anythng with either of those.  They set up the "working with the devil" scenario then they basically tried to make you think the devil was a saint, I suppose so folks would be endeared toward Miranda/Jacob.  Again another theme they set up but let fall completely by the wayside.

Aside from more cursing, yeah I don't really see any attempt to make things "dark".  There were elememts put in place for it but it was never carried through on.

Yeah, a lot of great material was set up.  Oh well.

Speaking of Liara specifically, I guess I am unimpressed by her "darker change" because when you consume other media, you see what a REAL dark change looks like.  Dukie from "The Wire" comes to mind as a terribly tragic downward spiral.

[bjdbwea]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Both Shep dying and being resurrected and his encoutners with Legion and the geth could have been used to explore themes like "what it means to be alive" and "what it means to be human" but they never did anythng with either of those.

Well these things wouldn't exactly be "dark" would they, "mature" would be a better word. But of course that's the exact opposite of the direction they went with ME 2, so it's no surprise it went nowhere.

[screwoffreg]

bjdbwea wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Both Shep dying and being resurrected and his encoutners with Legion and the geth could have been used to explore themes like "what it means to be alive" and "what it means to be human" but they never did anythng with either of those.

Well these things wouldn't exactly be "dark" would they, "mature" would be a better word. But of course that's the exact opposite of the direction they went with ME 2, so it's no surprise it went nowhere.

Yeah, if rising from the dead is dark I guess the story Christians tell each other during Easter is pretty rough!

Anyway, didn't ME 2 get a rating for 13 year olds to be warned in New Zealand?  It seems the good ole USA is the only one real worried about its "GRAPHIC" content.

[OldMan91]

Speaking of Liara specifically, I guess I am unimpressed by her "darker change" because when you consume other media, you see what a REAL dark change looks like. Dukie from "The Wire" comes to mind as a terribly tragic downward spiral.

I guess no character remains static in terms of their outlook on life or behaviour. Though at first I wasn't too comfortable with her change, once I discovered that dialogue option, where she explains what happened with the Shadow Broker and stuff, I wasn't as angry anymore.



I'll take what I can get, I guess.

[Nozybidaj]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

So, how about Shepard's reaction of when Liara finally opens up and is like , huh?

I think that part is the absolute worst in the Liara reunion.

Hug the woman you love, for Christ's sake!!

Pretty par for the course in ME2 i guess.

"Hey Shep you died and were brought back to life"   
"Shep you were brought back to life by a terrorist organization" 
"Shep the council thinks you are a traitor" 
"Shep your LI thinks you are a traitor"
"Shep your LI risked her life for you and is now devoted to getting revenge for some random dude she met"  


etc., etc., etc.

[Nozybidaj]

screwoffreg wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Both Shep dying and being resurrected and his encoutners with Legion and the geth could have been used to explore themes like "what it means to be alive" and "what it means to be human" but they never did anythng with either of those.

Well these things wouldn't exactly be "dark" would they, "mature" would be a better word. But of course that's the exact opposite of the direction they went with ME 2, so it's no surprise it went nowhere.

Yeah, if rising from the dead is dark I guess the story Christians tell each other during Easter is pretty rough!

Anyway, didn't ME 2 get a rating for 13 year olds to be warned in New Zealand?  It seems the good ole USA is the only one real worried about its "GRAPHIC" content.

/sigh  you guys.  The theme in and of itself isn't dark but can certianly be played that way.  Do I really need to explain it or are you guys just being facetious?

[screwoffreg]

Nozybidaj wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

So, how about Shepard's reaction of when Liara finally opens up and is like , huh?

I think that part is the absolute worst in the Liara reunion.

Hug the woman you love, for Christ's sake!!

Pretty par for the course in ME2 i guess.

"Hey Shep you died and were brought back to life"   
"Shep you were brought back to life by a terrorist organization" 
"Shep the council thinks you are a traitor" 
"Shep your LI thinks you are a traitor"
"Shep your LI risked her life for you and is now devoted to getting revenge for some random dude she met"  


etc., etc., etc.

Shepard: I have to go.

That is basically his level of interaction.  They had better find a better reason for Liara's change than "Feron is sadddd" or "SB is mean".  Didn't Liara and Shepard run into some real bad characters in ME 1 and yet somehow they managed not to swear a blood oath against them and follow them unto the ends of the age?

[Asheer_Khan]

Here is something i write not to long ago.
It's still very rusty  (and i known that i posted this already) but this is my vision of ultimate reunion of Shepard and Lia:wub: setting up in post C-base time line.
Lot to read but features here as well some less expected characters.

social.bioware.com/1300749/blog/4519/

Enjoy (i hope).

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 26 avril 2010 - 09:00 .