LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Thing is though, is that's why Redemption's ending pisses me off so much. It's so misleading regarding Liara's motives.
I mean, Shepard even calls Liara out on it in ME2, basically saying "This can't be all about this friend. What has happened?"
That anger can't be just from what you told me. What else happened between you and the Shadow Broker?
And then Liara's heart opens, and her true motivations are revealed for the first time. It's all her pain, suffering and guilt over what happened with Shepard, and what she had to do. That's what is still at the heart of it, her love for Shepard. Now, why not show this in Redemption's ending? It's ridiculous, and causing people to misconstrue just what is really going on with Liara.
Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI
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Nozybidaj
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#21551
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 09:01
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Reposting for emphasis. Alot of you are missing this, and taking the extremely poorly presented and scripted Redemption as gospel. There is something believeable about her motivations for wanting to off the Shadow Broker, centered around her love for Shepard.
Retour en haut
#21552
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 09:20
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Dang, I killed it, so I'm gonna revive it again!
Pretty Liara!
Pretty Liara!
#21555
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 09:29
Asheer_Khan
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Liara the logican
:wub:
-How much my stocks goes up?
Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 26 avril 2010 - 09:30 .
#21556
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 09:31
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Yeah, I definitely think it's time for some Liara squeeing!
Modifié par LesEnfantsTerribles, 26 avril 2010 - 09:31 .
#21557
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 09:32
Yeled
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justinnstuff wrote...
Look at her eyes!!!
It is a bit funny that she's dancing like that while armed to the tooth.
#21559
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 10:05
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Aside from the horrific way that shadow obscures her face, I think that picture is quite interesting on a technical level. Looks like the only lighting that still exists there is the blue lighting that shines behind her, and the orange glow from her computer, and that weird white light to Liara's left is absent. Why did they have so many odd lighting sources that completely messes with Liara's appearance?
But still, egads! Dark Liara!
But still, egads! Dark Liara!
#21560
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 10:26
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Embrace Eternity!
#21561
Guest_Shavon_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 10:36
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Lot's of pretty pictures in here!!:wub:
Tbh, Enfants, I don't understand how people are getting that Liara is abandoning Shepard to rescue Feron, when clearly, according to the hidden dialogue, friend or lover, Shepard is the most important person int he world to Liara. Her lust for revenge by taking down the Shadow Broker I think evolves into more of a cause as time goes on but it's definitely fueled by her desire to avenge the events that happened in the comic. Even to a silly FeronxLiara shipper like me (former, I should say) and the fact that the comic skimps this crucial part, because let's face it, it's a ****ty comic anyone who knows Liara knows that she wouldn't be so quick to abandon Shepard.
Or it's bad writing.
Either way, like you do Enfants, I hope the dlc/expansion will shed some more light on this. Or at least put some minds at ease regarding Liara and her whole 'dark side'.
:wub:LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Reposting for emphasis. Alot of you are missing this, and taking the extremely poorly presented and scripted Redemption as gospel. There is something believeable about her motivations for wanting to off the Shadow Broker, centered around her love for Shepard.LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Thing is though, is that's why Redemption's ending pisses me off so much. It's so misleading regarding Liara's motives.
I mean, Shepard even calls Liara out on it in ME2, basically saying "This can't be all about this friend. What has happened?"
That anger can't be just from what you told me. What else happened between you and the Shadow Broker?
And then Liara's heart opens, and her true motivations are revealed for the first time. It's all her pain, suffering and guilt over what happened with Shepard, and what she had to do. That's what is still at the heart of it, her love for Shepard. Now, why not show this in Redemption's ending? It's ridiculous, and causing people to misconstrue just what is really going on with Liara.
Tbh, Enfants, I don't understand how people are getting that Liara is abandoning Shepard to rescue Feron, when clearly, according to the hidden dialogue, friend or lover, Shepard is the most important person int he world to Liara. Her lust for revenge by taking down the Shadow Broker I think evolves into more of a cause as time goes on but it's definitely fueled by her desire to avenge the events that happened in the comic. Even to a silly FeronxLiara shipper like me (former, I should say) and the fact that the comic skimps this crucial part, because let's face it, it's a ****ty comic anyone who knows Liara knows that she wouldn't be so quick to abandon Shepard.
Or it's bad writing.
Either way, like you do Enfants, I hope the dlc/expansion will shed some more light on this. Or at least put some minds at ease regarding Liara and her whole 'dark side'.
#21562
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 10:40
II Goonah II
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Embrace Eternity!
I wish she'd embrace my eternity
#21563
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 10:44
AZ RUSH
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Great clip, saving it to my computer thanks for posting it:Djustinnstuff wrote...
#21564
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 10:50
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Exactly, Shav. I'm wondering how anyone can take a comic that features the Shadow Broker referring to Liara as "that Alliance woman" as gospel, or serious in any way at all. For something with such poor presentation and scripting, you have to take anything from it with a large handful of salt.
Liara not going with Shepard doesn't mean that she's abandoning her at all, especially as I've said when her chief motive is her guilt and sorrow for everything that's happened to Shepard, which is of course based around her love. The fact that Liara has been hating herself for two years, has been emotionally tormented, has been in a world of pain, all because of what happened to Shepard says something deep. She still has a deep, special bond and deep feelings regardless of reciprocation for Shepard. And that's what's driving her, a sense that she has to redeem herself, that it'll make her pain go away.
That's the crux of this matter. Shepard showing up again doesn't instantly make things all happy and sunshine for Liara. If anything, it makes things worse. Now Liara worries about whether Shepard will hate her to an even greater extent. That's even more anguish piled upon her. She has to off the Shadow Broker, for herself. To ease her pain. The fact that we can't properly comfort Liara, and that Liara does express her desire to go with Shepard again, speaks volumes. They both have their own duties at the moment, for differing reasons, want to be at each other's side again, but can't. Shepard because of her mission to stop the Collectors, and Liara for more personal and emotional reasons, centered around her pain. Does it mean they're abandoning and betraying each other? No not at all. Liara is entirely sympathetic, in my eyes. She's hurting. She needs comforting. It's touching that her chief motive is what happened to Shepard.
I just need the DLC and expansion pack ASAP. I want to help Liara, to ease her pain, to reaffirm the romance, to tell her she's not hated, and to let her open her heart. Liara's current character arc needs clarification and exploration.
Liara not going with Shepard doesn't mean that she's abandoning her at all, especially as I've said when her chief motive is her guilt and sorrow for everything that's happened to Shepard, which is of course based around her love. The fact that Liara has been hating herself for two years, has been emotionally tormented, has been in a world of pain, all because of what happened to Shepard says something deep. She still has a deep, special bond and deep feelings regardless of reciprocation for Shepard. And that's what's driving her, a sense that she has to redeem herself, that it'll make her pain go away.
That's the crux of this matter. Shepard showing up again doesn't instantly make things all happy and sunshine for Liara. If anything, it makes things worse. Now Liara worries about whether Shepard will hate her to an even greater extent. That's even more anguish piled upon her. She has to off the Shadow Broker, for herself. To ease her pain. The fact that we can't properly comfort Liara, and that Liara does express her desire to go with Shepard again, speaks volumes. They both have their own duties at the moment, for differing reasons, want to be at each other's side again, but can't. Shepard because of her mission to stop the Collectors, and Liara for more personal and emotional reasons, centered around her pain. Does it mean they're abandoning and betraying each other? No not at all. Liara is entirely sympathetic, in my eyes. She's hurting. She needs comforting. It's touching that her chief motive is what happened to Shepard.
I just need the DLC and expansion pack ASAP. I want to help Liara, to ease her pain, to reaffirm the romance, to tell her she's not hated, and to let her open her heart. Liara's current character arc needs clarification and exploration.
#21565
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 10:56
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I love this Liara pic!
#21566
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Posté 26 avril 2010 - 11:04
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Shepard showing up again doesn't instantly make things all happy and sunshine for Liara. If anything, it makes things worse. Now Liara worries about whether Shepard will hate her to an even greater extent. That's even more anguish piled upon her. She has to off the Shadow Broker, for herself. To ease her pain.
Exactly. Crappy writing or not, this is the 'declared intent' on the writer's parts for both Liara and Virmire Survivor. I know you weren't on the old site at all, but many of us came to the consensus that Liara and Kaidan aren't jsut going to be able to up and join Shepard, leaving everything behind. They have established lives of their own, etc. In Liara's case, she has become an established member of the community at Ilium and an importnat Information Broker. This is part of her facade, but as she said, it helped to pay the bills while Shepard was gone. And we see more specifically, Liara has to take down the Sb, once and for all so he can no longer endanger the galaxy (the big picture). What I mean is, I think Liara ends up realizing for the good of the galaxy, the Sb needs to be taken down.
I just need the DLC and expansion pack ASAP. I want to help Liara, to ease her pain, to reaffirm the romance, to tell her she's not hated, and to let her open her heart. Liara's current character arc needs clarification and exploration.
I don't know . . I am thinking that the Liara dlc/expansion will be what is siad to be coming out in Q1 of next year. Just a little longer!
i hope they give it ample time in development so that it's actually worth playing. I don't mind waiting an extra few months for that.
#21567
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 11:10
bjdbwea
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The whole "going after the SB" thing makes sense only as long as she thinks or fears that Shepard is dead. It's one way to deal with the loss, to set a new goal and fully invest into that. Even more so I guess if that goal entails punishing those who are responsible for the loss.
BUT it stops making sense as soon as Shepard steps through the door. Realistically the scene had to take a completely different route. So yeah, from there on it's just bad writing. Not written with any consideration for realism or coherence, but with the sole purpose of forcing upon the player the concept of keeping her out of the crew, and the idea of a "rocky" relationship.
It would have worked better if they had done what was initially planned and showed Liara recover and hand over Shepard's body to Cerberus. There was no need to make it playable, just show it. Then we could learn how devastating it was for her (of course mentioning the romance if there was one), and how she sets out to find the SB. Cut the scene on Illium out completely if you can't do it properly, and maybe throw in a letter from her at some point that tells us why we can't see her. You would still have the perfect opportunity for a related DLC, or for SB stuff in ME 3.
That would still have been a major disappointment, as I think we all agree that there simply never was a reason to sideline the ME 1 LIs in the first place, but it would have made more sense than what they did now.
BUT it stops making sense as soon as Shepard steps through the door. Realistically the scene had to take a completely different route. So yeah, from there on it's just bad writing. Not written with any consideration for realism or coherence, but with the sole purpose of forcing upon the player the concept of keeping her out of the crew, and the idea of a "rocky" relationship.
It would have worked better if they had done what was initially planned and showed Liara recover and hand over Shepard's body to Cerberus. There was no need to make it playable, just show it. Then we could learn how devastating it was for her (of course mentioning the romance if there was one), and how she sets out to find the SB. Cut the scene on Illium out completely if you can't do it properly, and maybe throw in a letter from her at some point that tells us why we can't see her. You would still have the perfect opportunity for a related DLC, or for SB stuff in ME 3.
That would still have been a major disappointment, as I think we all agree that there simply never was a reason to sideline the ME 1 LIs in the first place, but it would have made more sense than what they did now.
Modifié par bjdbwea, 26 avril 2010 - 11:13 .
#21568
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 11:18
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bjd, I still think that it makes sense in some respects. Like I said, Shepard appearing again doesn't make everything happy and sunshine for Liara suddenly. Her pain is still there, festering away. Little really changes, except to possibly make Liara feel worse, as I've said. The fact that we can't properly comfort Liara speaks volumes, IMO. It's an incredibly contrived way to maintain her current character arc, and to keep her off the squad.
Shav, I like what you're saying, and you've touched on something that I also theorised. Due to Liara being in possession of this data caches, I'm hoping Liara is aware of the full extent that the Shadow Broker is aiding the Collectors, and by proxy the Reapers. At least then we've got something concrete about why she's after the Shadow Broker, and show's she's aware of the bigger picture. If the SB is aiding the Reapers, he needs to be stopped as his information network is an incredibly useful tool for them in order to conduct their next invasion.
I don't mind waiting long for the Liara DLC either! As long as it's deep, substantial, emotional and with romance content, then I'll be very happy, and the wait will be worthwhile! I just hope that BW announce or acknowledge it sometime soon, to put alot of fears at rest. I want more Liara!!
Shav, I like what you're saying, and you've touched on something that I also theorised. Due to Liara being in possession of this data caches, I'm hoping Liara is aware of the full extent that the Shadow Broker is aiding the Collectors, and by proxy the Reapers. At least then we've got something concrete about why she's after the Shadow Broker, and show's she's aware of the bigger picture. If the SB is aiding the Reapers, he needs to be stopped as his information network is an incredibly useful tool for them in order to conduct their next invasion.
I don't mind waiting long for the Liara DLC either! As long as it's deep, substantial, emotional and with romance content, then I'll be very happy, and the wait will be worthwhile! I just hope that BW announce or acknowledge it sometime soon, to put alot of fears at rest. I want more Liara!!
#21569
Guest_Shavon_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 11:20
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@bjdjwea I think Liara and Shepard both realize that both of them have their own thing to do. Liara is not just chasing the SB down because of Feron (NOT at ALL), nor is she purely avenging Shepard's death. I think she also realizes the huge threat it is to all life in the galaxy that the SB is willing to do business with the Collectors. Or else she is that horrified by the amoral state that the Sb and his organization is, and is compelled by principle to do it. I also don't put much stock int he emphasis of the suicide mission ingame, despite it's use in the marketing of ME2.
Please don't get me wrong, this is all based on speculation I have come up with in part to explain away why Kaidan and Liara won't come along (other than crappy writing, of course). I would have much preferred that they were both in my squad, absolutely! But they weren't, and it made the game feel like two giant Kiadan and Liara sized holes were there.
Please don't get me wrong, this is all based on speculation I have come up with in part to explain away why Kaidan and Liara won't come along (other than crappy writing, of course). I would have much preferred that they were both in my squad, absolutely! But they weren't, and it made the game feel like two giant Kiadan and Liara sized holes were there.
#21570
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 11:24
wolf99000
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while I do agree her guilt over Shepard and most of all Shepard telling her to go with the crew and not letting her stay with her but it was still poorly done
if they had done it like she is not wanting to get close because she lost Shepard once and was scared of getting hurt which would hurt even more seeing your lover die infront of you with no way you can help and she is mad she could not be with you till the end then it would have worked better but the whole shadow broker anger just does not fit with anything in the games comics we have seen
if they had done it like she is not wanting to get close because she lost Shepard once and was scared of getting hurt which would hurt even more seeing your lover die infront of you with no way you can help and she is mad she could not be with you till the end then it would have worked better but the whole shadow broker anger just does not fit with anything in the games comics we have seen
Modifié par wolf99000, 26 avril 2010 - 11:27 .
#21571
Guest_Shavon_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 11:29
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I'm actually guessing Liara even realized early on that the Collectors are somehow working for the Reapers, if not puppets. Perhaps she has even made the connection between the Protheans and the Collectors on her own. Omg! I think I've touched up on something! I hope they explain something like this in the dlc/expansion, it would fill in so many holes that have been confusing fans.
#21572
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 11:31
bjdbwea
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If her purpose was to destroy the SB for the better of the galaxy, Shepard would be the best help she could wish for. Same if she's out to find and possibly free that Drell. Except if she wouldn't dare to tell Shepard more about her "friend"... urgh. I know you have dismissed that idea, but with BioWare/EA nothing would surprise me anymore.
Modifié par bjdbwea, 26 avril 2010 - 11:32 .
#21573
Guest_Shavon_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 11:34
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bjdbwea wrote...
If her purpose was to destroy the SB for the better of the galaxy, Shepard would be the best help she could wish for. Same if she's out to find and possibly free that Drell. Except if she wouldn't dare to tell Shepard more about her "friend"... urgh. I know you have dismissed that idea, but with BioWare/EA nothing would surprise me anymore.
I totally agree, BUT the problem with Shepard going with Liara right away to deal with the Sb, Shep needed to focus on the suicide mission. I think Shep will be more than willing to help out with that once the mission is done and overwith.
#21574
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 11:34
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bjdbwea wrote...
If her purpose was to destroy the SB for the better of the galaxy, Shepard would be the best help she could wish for. Same if she's out to find and possibly free that Drell. Except if she wouldn't dare to tell Shepard about her "friend"... urgh. I know you have dismissed that idea, but with BioWare/EA nothing would surprise me anymore.
She doesn't ask for Shepard's help in her quest, because Liara is aware of just how important Shepard's current mission is. Liara can't distract Shepard from that, and she realises how important it is that Shepard succeed in this mission, and that if Shepard is distracted there's a very good chance she could die. Liara doesn't disclose the full extent of her hunt for the Shadow Broker, or ask for Shepard's help on an even greater level because she's trying to protect her, and ensure she succeeds in her mission and comes back alive.
#21575
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 26 avril 2010 - 11:37
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Also, Liara not really explaining more about her "friend" is more for meta reasons. It's basically BioWare saying "You want to find out more? Buy the new comic book!"
