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Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI


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#21901
Dinkamus_Littlelog

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

That's life though. My younger brother could get hit by a bus whenever he leaves for work in the morning, doesn't mean I'm going to follow him everywhere.

Liara trusts Shepard to come home alive. Plus, she even expresses remorse and regret that she can't come. How in any way does Liara embarking on the Collector mission make it any more likely that Shepard will survive? If anything, the possibilities for something worse happening exist as Liara could die, too.


No its not. Thats not life at all. Thats a situation where Shepard is going to a complete unknown against a foe that have already killed him once. Dont compare it to stepping out of the door each day.

For all Liara and Shepard knew, once they pass through the omega 4 relay, there could have been a dozen collector ships lying in wait ready to carve the SR2 to pieces.

Liara doesnt ignore the thread of the suicide mission because she believes Shepard will return. She would have said so otherwise. She ignores it because the writers did, and since they ignored it and its not there in her character in ME2, she didnt care.

#21902
Asheer_Khan

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Looking at entire Liara script for ME2 i doubt that even Uve Boll would invented such ridiculous plot...



Everything is completely unlogic paranoia..., Shep can die in C-Base making whole Lazarus project and Liara's effort to recover her body absolute pointless...



No that single game plot is one of the biggest indicators that ME 3 will be STAND ALONE game in same level of crazines as ME 2 was because apparently Bioware IS unable to creating plausible and swift passing from one game to another trilogy... hell they can't even produce duology (aka NWN and Kotor sequels) so maybe it's time for them to finish thier RPG history at ME 3 and focus only at ToR?



*Sigh* This entire series could be so great but instead we get very hardly to digest half burned cake...


#21903
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bjdbwea wrote...

I wouldn't predict anything at the moment. Somehow I can't help but get that suspicion that BioWare/EA have some kind of problem with especially the Liara romance now. What better way to get rid of it than pulling a new lover out of their hats. Of course I don't see that in her character, but why should that suddenly matter. I wouldn't say it's likely, just that nothing they do could surprise me anymore.


I was actually discussing something similar with J over PM a few days ago. I asked her if, what with BioWare's sudden seeming avoidance of any same sex content in the ME series now, if they contrived to find a way so that Liara's romance with FemShep ends, but it can carry on with DudeShep as normal. She says she worries about this all the damn time, and that she would laugh hysterically if it were to ever come true.

Is it possible that BW would drop the FemShep/Liara romance? Who knows. I doubt it, though.

#21904
screwoffreg

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

I wouldn't predict anything at the moment. Somehow I can't help but get that suspicion that BioWare/EA have some kind of problem with especially the Liara romance now. What better way to get rid of it than pulling a new lover out of their hats. Of course I don't see that in her character, but why should that suddenly matter. I wouldn't say it's likely, just that nothing they do could surprise me anymore.


I was actually discussing something similar with J over PM a few days ago. I asked her if, what with BioWare's sudden seeming avoidance of any same sex content in the ME series now, if they contrived to find a way so that Liara's romance with FemShep ends, but it can carry on with DudeShep as normal. She says she worries about this all the damn time, and that she would laugh hysterically if it were to ever come true.

Is it possible that BW would drop the FemShep/Liara romance? Who knows. I doubt it, though.


Well, Fem Shep does kiss Liara and Kelly does exotic dances for her.  Bioware may have been playing it careful with this game and same sex content, but they "snuck" it in.

For them to do a complete retreat like you suggest would be absolutely unprecedented.  Most every Bioware game has had hints of same sex romances if not outright explicit options for it.  Even KOTOR had it until LucasArts probably asked that it be removed, but it is still present in the data (and unlockable).

I certainly hope this isn't the case.  What an awful step back.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 27 avril 2010 - 10:33 .


#21905
Dinkamus_Littlelog

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When you have, to (out of universe) ignorant human eyes, an entire race of women with lesbian leanings, I think youd look ridiculous trying to remove it from the game.

Kelly is same sex content. Its there in ME2, its just dramatically downscaled. Samara turns down male and female advances alike (while at the same time sort of admitting she could easily feel the same way, but is actually stopping herself from doing so). Thats also same sex content.

Maybe its like everything else: They have got it ready for ME3, so rather than introduce something as continuation, simply bury what youve got so its safe for ME3, and offer a shallow replacement for those who cant wait (hehe).

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 27 avril 2010 - 10:38 .


#21906
bjdbwea

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Is it possible that BW would drop the FemShep/Liara romance? Who knows. I doubt it, though.


Nah, that's unlikely. It does indeed seem to me that BioWare/EA suddenly has some kind of problem with romances between characters of the same gender, or maybe even with romances in general. Maybe it's just the ME franchise (remember they cut content from ME 1, and that was before EA became involved). But Awakening completely avoided any romances, so it's hard to see what their exact position is. Of course their complete lack of communication doesn't help.

That said, to change a character in a way that suddenly one gender is excluded, could create an outcry even beyond an unimportant forum. I don't think they would want to deal with that. No, they'd rather just say "sorry, Liara has found someone new. Deal with it, there are so many fine new LIs!" In other words, they'd rather exclude everyone, even if the only reason were to get rid of the unwanted romance between a woman and a "female looking alien".

Modifié par bjdbwea, 27 avril 2010 - 10:45 .


#21907
Erinlana

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Hey !

I just finished up on another piece of fanart for my 2nd attempt ^_^ ! again i didnt create the background i just cut the image feathered it & added text and blended it in .

i will have another for tomorow but right now i feel like i am going to drop dead.. O__O

Image IPB

Modifié par Erinlana, 27 avril 2010 - 10:44 .


#21908
screwoffreg

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Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

When you have, to (out of universe) ignorant human eyes, an entire race of women with lesbian leanings, I think youd look ridiculous trying to remove it from the game.

Kelly is same sex content. Its there in ME2, its just dramatically downscaled. Samara turns down male and female advances alike (while at the same time sort of admitting she could easily feel the same way, but is actually stopping herself from doing so). Thats also same sex content.

Maybe its like everything else: They have got it ready for ME3, so rather than introduce something as continuation, simply bury what youve got so its safe for ME3, and offer a shallow replacement for those who cant wait (hehe).


You'd have to think by ME times people would have moved on from being ignorant about sexuality.  Then again, considering they will probably be able to produce viable human babies with samples from people of the same sex...humanity might be a very different species...

#21909
IndigoWolfe

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Just dropping in real quick, I need you guys' help here; social.bioware.com/group/1044/discussion/7072/300695/#post_300695

#21910
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Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...
Liara doesnt ignore the thread of the suicide mission because she believes Shepard will return. She would have said so otherwise. She ignores it because the writers did, and since they ignored it and its not there in her character in ME2, she didnt care.


That's a weird statement, you ignored and dismissed my own projection onto Liara, but then put forward yours and then assumed it was fact or canon or whatever, despite the fact that there are signs that Liara does indeed care, such as when she opens up to Shepard, and when she expressed remorse and regret that she can't go.

The whole thing that Liara doesn't go with Shepard doesn't automatically mean that she doesn't have any concern for his/her wellbeing, any more than Ashley, Kaidan, Wrex and Anderson not joining the Normandy does. Like the rest, it just means that she has her own reasons for not joining the ship. It doesn't mean she doesn't give a monkey's about what happens or not.

Oh, and my whole thing about saying it's life was just taking that argument to it's logical extreme. At no point in the game is it made clear that the mission is a certain death sentence, or that it's any more dangerous than what happened with Ilos and the Citadel. It's just that characters suddenly become aware of their own mortality. Hell, my Shepard constantly said that he didn't consider it a suicide mission.

#21911
screwoffreg

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Well, it is mentioned by several crew members that a lot of people are going to die and even EDI says the ship might not even survive the jump...

#21912
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bjdbwea wrote...


Nah, that's unlikely. It does indeed seem to me that BioWare/EA suddenly has some kind of problem with romances between characters of the same gender, or maybe even with romances in general. Maybe it's just the ME franchise (remember they cut content from ME 1, and that was before EA became involved). But Awakening completely avoided any romances, so it's hard to see what their exact position is. Of course their complete lack of communication doesn't help.

That said, to change a character in a way that suddenly one gender is excluded, could create an outcry even beyond an unimportant forum. I don't think they would want to deal with that. No, they'd rather just say "sorry, Liara has found someone new. Deal with it, there are so many fine new LIs!" In other words, they'd rather exclude everyone, even if the only reason were to get rid of the unwanted romance between a woman and a "female looking alien".


That would create a similar sort of outcry, as it's no less transparent than simply dropping the romance for FemSheps. I can't see them doing this though, the BW writing staff and development team aren't that pathetic and weak willed. I think we have to give them some credit here, they do have a backbone.

Plus, they did say the Liara romance would continue and conclude in ME3, so there's confirmation there already really. I don't think there's much point worrying about it.

#21913
Asheer_Khan

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Honestly... if i will heard one more time that Mass Effect games are trilogy i will start to seriously scream...



Those games are stand in gigantic contradiction to the true definition of trilogy and that's why they should be called Stand Alones... good job Bioware... really good *insert unproper curse here* job in screwing something what once have great potential to become true diamond in Bioware's RPG games history...

#21914
Dinkamus_Littlelog

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

That's a weird statement, you ignored and dismissed my own projection onto Liara, but then put forward yours and then assumed it was fact or canon or whatever, despite the fact that there are signs that Liara does indeed care, such as when she opens up to Shepard, and when she expressed remorse and regret that she can't go.


It is fact Im afraid LET, you just cant see it. Liara doesnt express concern over the fact that Shepard might die, she simply says how it would be so easy to join him "like old times". The mere fact that youre bringing that into this shows how dire the situation is.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
The whole thing that Liara doesn't go with Shepard doesn't
automatically mean that she doesn't have any concern for his/her
wellbeing, any more than Ashley, Kaidan, Wrex and Anderson not joining
the Normandy does. Like the rest, it just means that she has her own
reasons for not joining the ship. It doesn't mean she doesn't give a
monkey's about what happens or not

.

Liara ONLY talks about why she cant join. She doesnt talk about what the ramifications are of Shepard going on this suicide mission. Like I said, its not written, so without blatantly projecting something that isnt there, Liara during her ME2 cameo didnt care about Shepard going on the SUICIDE MISSION.

It will take a backtracking comment in either DLC or ME3 to show she was actually frightened for Shepards life, or that "she never doubted he would return" (despite the fact that the very same collectors killed him once already).

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Oh, and my whole thing about saying it's life was just taking that argument to it's logical extreme. At no point in the game is it made clear that the mission is a certain death sentence, or that it's any more dangerous than what happened with Ilos and the Citadel. It's just that characters suddenly become aware of their own mortality. Hell, my Shepard constantly said that he didn't consider it a suicide mission.


Your Shepard will most likely have also acknowledged at key points that survival is not guaranteed. You might be willing to ignore one of the (admittedly weak and, aside from character deaths, poorly fleshed out) focal points of the game, but the game itself doesnt. Even fully prepared, there is constantly the question of "will it be enough". Its the games pathetic attempt at keeping tension after almost an entire game doing disconnected side missions.

Liara showed a distinct concern about the prospect of either Shepard or Liara dying on Ilos, and didnt want things to end without setting the record straight.

Pity Bioware were too lazy to add some romance carryover comment related to that, as little else would be needed. It would be a "whatever happens Shepard, remember what I told you last time we were at this point before Ilos".

Without it, unless you count baseless fan projection, I think youd have to come down on the side of "Liara shows no sign of caring about Shepard potentially dying on this mission".

#21915
bjdbwea

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

That would create a similar sort of outcry, as it's no less transparent than simply dropping the romance for FemSheps. I can't see them doing this though, the BW writing staff and development team aren't that pathetic and weak willed. I think we have to give them some credit here, they do have a backbone.


No, it wouldn't. Businesses are always concerned about their image, and no one wants to draw accusations of being prejudiced against any minority. That's what I meant could happen if they did something so blatant. But if they just drop the romance altogether, no one outside this forum would care.

As for the writers, they do and don't do what they have to, is the consequence of having lost their independence.

#21916
OrbitalWings

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Just going to cut into the discussions here with the announcement that I'll be writing (and hopefully finishing) the one-shot fic to accompany today's drawing tonight - said fic will of course feature Liara.

One thing thought - and my god I'm going to seem arrogant here - but as quite a few people have told me how familiar they are with Freya Shepard now, if there's any questions you want to ask about her - whether it's in-game or head!canon stuff, don't hesitate to ask.

And for those of you who missed it, here's that pic again...

Image IPB

Modifié par Metal-Dragon-Kiryu, 27 avril 2010 - 11:09 .


#21917
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Metal-Dragon-Kiryu wrote...

Just going to cut into the discussions here with the announcement that I'll be writing (and hopefully finishing) the one-shot fic to accompany today's drawing tonight - said fic will of course feature Liara.

One thing thought - and my god I'm going to seem arrogant here - but as quite a few people have told me how familiar they are with Freya Shepard now, if there's any questions you want to ask about her - whether it's in-game or head!canon stuff, don't hesitate to ask.

And for those of you who missed it, here's that pic again...

Image IPB


Wow, that's amazing! How long have you been drawing stuff like this MDK?

:wub::wub::wub:

#21918
tonnactus

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Unit-Alpha wrote...


Well, I'd say that as an Asari, Liara should be more powerful than any human biotic (read: Jack) for obvious reasons. Samara can't be too powerful as she barely escaped her encounter with her 200 year old (?; maybe 400; I can't remember) daughter so that she needs Shepard to save her.


You forgot that her daughter was an ardat yakshi that become stronger after each kill.(that means her biotics become stronger)

#21919
OrbitalWings

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justinnstuff wrote...

Wow, that's amazing! How long have you been drawing stuff like this MDK?

:wub::wub::wub:


Well, I've been drawing all my life. Been drawing digital art for 5 years. But as for how long I've been doing stuff that's recognisable as this....hmmm....probably only about a year, and even then anything from 12 months ago would look awful in comparison. I'm constantly improving - most of the time, every new drawing makes me look more critically at the previous pic.

That's one of the fun parts about what I do - constantly trying to improve the technique. At the moment, I'm working on getting my speed up - learning lots of little shortcuts to help get these drawings done faster. For example - judging whether or not it's worth adding detail that probably won't be seen, or deciding just how long to spend shading something before I begin to cancel my own work out.

I'm only 18....so I'm definately still just a learner.

Modifié par Metal-Dragon-Kiryu, 27 avril 2010 - 11:18 .


#21920
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Metal-Dragon-Kiryu wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

Wow, that's amazing! How long have you been drawing stuff like this MDK?

:wub::wub::wub:


Well, I've been drawing all my life. Been drawing digital art for 5 years. But as for how long I've been doing stuff that's recognisable as this....hmmm....probably only about a year, and even then anything from 12 months ago would look awful in comparison. I'm constantly improving - most of the time, every new drawing makes me look more critically at the previous pic.

That's one of the fun parts about what I do - constantly trying to improve the technique. At the moment, I'm working on getting my speed up - learning lots of little shortcuts to help get these drawings done faster. For example - judging whether or not it's worth adding detail that probably won't be seen, or deciding just how long to spend shading something before I begin to cancel my own work out.

I'm only 18....so I'm definately still just a learner.


Awesome. I've never really been artistically inclined. Need a server fixed or computers routed? I can do that, but nothing like you can do with drawing. Keep up the good work! Ever since our ME2 reunion botched scene, there are fewer and fewer Liara fans. It's good to see some people still invest time into things like this.

#21921
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Dink, Jesus Christ I can't believe you just wrote all of that, trying to debunk my own projection before then putting forward your own. The fact that Liara doesn't implicitly state the suicide mission doesn't mean that she doesn't care. If she mentions that she wishes she could go with you, or that she opens up and reveals everything she's done for Shepard and shows genuine intimacy, that shows she cares. Just because the suicide mission isn't mentioned in that context, doesn't mean she doesn't care about it or what happens whilst on it. If Liara does show genuine intimacy and a caring attitude to Shepard, which she does, and in another sentence acknowledges the suicide mission, which she does "You're back, gunning for the Collectors with Cerberus" then I don't see how those are mutually exclusive. Just because the Collector mission isn't mentioned in the context when Liara opens up and shows a caring attitude, it doesn't mean that a lack of caring about what happens on the mission is evident.



I've said before about this "suicide mission", but it really shouldn't be considered a certain death or anything that's different from any other mission. Ilos was something that we may have not survived, and yet that isn't considered a suicide mission. This whole Collector mission was hyped on on a meta level as being a suicide mission, when in-universe that isn't the case, and it's not treated any differently from any other mission.

#21922
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bjdbwea wrote...

No, it wouldn't. Businesses are always concerned about their image, and no one wants to draw accusations of being prejudiced against any minority. That's what I meant could happen if they did something so blatant. But if they just drop the romance altogether, no one outside this forum would care.

As for the writers, they do and don't do what they have to, is the consequence of having lost their independence.


It would. It would be about as subtle as a hammer to the head, everyone would see the real reason why BW would be removing the Liara romance. That's why I said it would be just as transparent as removing only the FemShep/Liara romance. They'd try to justify it with rubbish story or character reasons, but the intention would be clear as day.

#21923
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But enough of me prattling on and scaring off all of the Liara fans, I think it's time for a pic!

Image IPB

:wub:

#21924
JaylaClark

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Okay... mostly staying full-on clear of the dink-les ... discussion, but I do have to say something very clearly about something on the side of it -- this notion that EA hates Liara and wants to avoid controversy?

*looks at her Sims 3 save with Jayla married to Kyra with their adopted teenaged daughter Crystal -- clearly not in Massachusetts or Canada, by the way, the weather's too good ;)*

Can you guess why I don't buy that concept?

(I'd also express my opinion about anyone who thinks that they're hooking Feron up with Lia.  But it's unprintable in polite conversation.  As is my opinion about people who want me to prove it's not going to happen.  Like I've said for months now, Kal'Reegar/Tali is more hinted at and it's in the actual game.)

#21925
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JaylaClark wrote...

Okay... mostly staying full-on clear of the dink-les ... discussion, but I do have to say something very clearly about something on the side of it -- this notion that EA hates Liara and wants to avoid controversy?

*looks at her Sims 3 save with Jayla married to Kyra with their adopted teenaged daughter Crystal -- clearly not in Massachusetts or Canada, by the way, the weather's too good ;)*

Can you guess why I don't buy that concept?

(I'd also express my opinion about anyone who thinks that they're hooking Feron up with Lia.  But it's unprintable in polite conversation.  As is my opinion about people who want me to prove it's not going to happen.  Like I've said for months now, Kal'Reegar/Tali is more hinted at and it's in the actual game.)


This. I doubt EA has anything to do with ME outside of advertising. EA is just the publisher not the developer. I also agree on the rest of the points.