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Kaidan Alenko Support Thread Part 2


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#30951
Shenzi

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Jhosephine wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Although I still HATE Horizon, I agree, there was nothing that Shepard said in that scene that gave Kaidan or Ashley a reason to abandon the Alliance and go to work for Cerberus.  I'm pretty confident that the Virmire Survivor has not forgotten the threat of the Reapers, but it's reasonable that they haven't forgotten the horrible things that Cerberus does, too.  If I could have taken my Shepard to the Alliance and gotten my position back, I would have done so immediately.  It was horrible writing and railroading that prevented this, and didn't even explain *why* we couldn't even try to work with the "good guys". 


They most likely left most of the details out of the game for the new players, otherwise it makes little sense to me. Too much of a background story could have scared away new players who had to deal with dialogues trying to find answers to problems they didn't even know were important.
This is why I don't like making each game stand on its own in a trilogy so it appeals to both old and new fans. For Bioware's sake I hope the whole shooter with babes feel of ME2 got them a lot of new fans, because it sure made them loose a few points in my eyes.

I wanted more information, more of a continuation of the story we started in ME1. I felt like a bloody hero at the end of ME1, was so damn proud of my Shepard. Then ME2 came and Shepard dies, which was a bitter pill to swallow but we're also forced to work with an organisation I spend a great deal of time fighting in ME1 without any explanation as to why the Alliance is no longer an option. Sure, people in the game keep telling you they left the Alliance because after Shepard dies they did nothing etc etc. But that's third party information. I wanted THEM to tell ME why. Just because Shepard rolled off the operation table with a Cerberus stamp on her ass, doesn't mean she IS Cerberus. I find it lazy writing to just make everybody else in the universe believe you are working for Cerberus without even giving Shepard a way of explaining herself. Not to the man she loves or even her own mother.

But again ME2 is about the new characters with a new fighting system on a new Normandy. With a Shepard I often don't recognize as that hero I grew to love in ME1. That became even more obvious on Horizon. Not only do we deal with a Shepard we ourselves have to justify in some way to make it tolerable, but we also see Kaidan suffer from being the generic Virmire survivor AGAIN. As if the phoenix armor wasn't enough. The whole scene could have been so devastating if Shepard was at all believable, but she's not. She's generic Shepard with simple dialogue so new players don't feel left out. Kaidan acts like he's supposed to, Shepard is just reading her lines.


I think you stated it perfectly Jho, especially the part I put in bold is what really annoyed me.

Everyone knows where I stand on Horizon, I wanted to strangle my own toon for the words coming out of her mouth.

#30952
Joisan

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Jhosephine wrote...

lol saw Horizon in the news on the Bioware site and was like ''WHAT?" ...then I really read it and it's just On the Horizon...hehe...I'm hopeless :)


You made me curious, so I went to have a look.  DLC news... damn!  Be still, my heart.  To think that this DLC might involve Kaidan in some way, shape, or form is too optimistic even for me.

#30953
Jhourney

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Joisan wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

lol saw Horizon in the news on the Bioware site and was like ''WHAT?" ...then I really read it and it's just On the Horizon...hehe...I'm hopeless :)


You made me curious, so I went to have a look.  DLC news... damn!  Be still, my heart.  To think that this DLC might involve Kaidan in some way, shape, or form is too optimistic even for me.


Could be the Liara DLC..and maybe if we're lucky they'll throw us a bone too? I would bark like a chihuahua and play the fetching game if we got something Kaidan related.

#30954
Joisan

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Jhosephine wrote...
Could be the Liara DLC..and maybe if we're lucky they'll throw us a bone too? I would bark like a chihuahua and play the fetching game if we got something Kaidan related.


Yeah.  We'll just have to wait and see, I guess, but the Liara DLC seems a likely prospect.  Wonder what her fans will think of it.

And yes, if it had anything to do with Kaidan, I would definitely start bouncing around and barking like my dog when he knows you're about to take him on a walk or to play fetch.

#30955
Jhourney

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Joisan wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...
Could be the Liara DLC..and maybe if we're lucky they'll throw us a bone too? I would bark like a chihuahua and play the fetching game if we got something Kaidan related.


Yeah.  We'll just have to wait and see, I guess, but the Liara DLC seems a likely prospect.  Wonder what her fans will think of it.

And yes, if it had anything to do with Kaidan, I would definitely start bouncing around and barking like my dog when he knows you're about to take him on a walk or to play fetch.


hehe maybe someone from BW will see this and keep it in mind, promising us content if we actually deliver on the barking. Oh the madness of the vids we would be making, and trust me...I would.
Desperate much? Who me? :P

#30956
Sialater

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I'm reading Iunctio, and I have to hand it to Sinvraal. This is possibly my favorite line:



"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?" Ashley quoted, leaning back comfortably in the bucket seat. "Eh, Saren just didn't have enough friends to keep him from wandering off into the dark."



#30957
Shenzi

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Joisan wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...
Could be the Liara DLC..and maybe if we're lucky they'll throw us a bone too? I would bark like a chihuahua and play the fetching game if we got something Kaidan related.


Yeah.  We'll just have to wait and see, I guess, but the Liara DLC seems a likely prospect.  Wonder what her fans will think of it.

And yes, if it had anything to do with Kaidan, I would definitely start bouncing around and barking like my dog when he knows you're about to take him on a walk or to play fetch.

I got quite the image out of that one, my two dogs go insane whenever the collars come out of the drawer.

#30958
Joisan

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Well, I think I just made a couple of Liara fans' days by bringing them that news.



In the meantime, I'll be waiting eagerly to see if there's anything in there for Kaidan fans to get excited about.

#30959
Jhourney

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Joisan wrote...

Well, I think I just made a couple of Liara fans' days by bringing them that news.

In the meantime, I'll be waiting eagerly to see if there's anything in there for Kaidan fans to get excited about.


Same here...my poor nerves. I promised them I wouldn't get my hopes up anymore :lol:

#30960
*Kioux*

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Heh - hate to sound pessimistic but I still don't think BW grasped our desire to see more content. No idea if my letter and that of others ever came through or were ever read. No idea if anyone actually ever comes in here to check - I suppose they do but that's to keep it clean and not so much about what we want.



Oh boy... I might have to find myself a clown to chew on him for breakfast, maybe the pessimism will go away...

#30961
Nightodie

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Shenzi wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Although I still HATE Horizon, I agree, there was nothing that Shepard said in that scene that gave Kaidan or Ashley a reason to abandon the Alliance and go to work for Cerberus.  I'm pretty confident that the Virmire Survivor has not forgotten the threat of the Reapers, but it's reasonable that they haven't forgotten the horrible things that Cerberus does, too.  If I could have taken my Shepard to the Alliance and gotten my position back, I would have done so immediately.  It was horrible writing and railroading that prevented this, and didn't even explain *why* we couldn't even try to work with the "good guys". 


They most likely left most of the details out of the game for the new players, otherwise it makes little sense to me. Too much of a background story could have scared away new players who had to deal with dialogues trying to find answers to problems they didn't even know were important.
This is why I don't like making each game stand on its own in a trilogy so it appeals to both old and new fans. For Bioware's sake I hope the whole shooter with babes feel of ME2 got them a lot of new fans, because it sure made them loose a few points in my eyes.

I wanted more information, more of a continuation of the story we started in ME1. I felt like a bloody hero at the end of ME1, was so damn proud of my Shepard. Then ME2 came and Shepard dies, which was a bitter pill to swallow but we're also forced to work with an organisation I spend a great deal of time fighting in ME1 without any explanation as to why the Alliance is no longer an option. Sure, people in the game keep telling you they left the Alliance because after Shepard dies they did nothing etc etc. But that's third party information. I wanted THEM to tell ME why. Just because Shepard rolled off the operation table with a Cerberus stamp on her ass, doesn't mean she IS Cerberus. I find it lazy writing to just make everybody else in the universe believe you are working for Cerberus without even giving Shepard a way of explaining herself. Not to the man she loves or even her own mother.

But again ME2 is about the new characters with a new fighting system on a new Normandy. With a Shepard I often don't recognize as that hero I grew to love in ME1. That became even more obvious on Horizon. Not only do we deal with a Shepard we ourselves have to justify in some way to make it tolerable, but we also see Kaidan suffer from being the generic Virmire survivor AGAIN. As if the phoenix armor wasn't enough. The whole scene could have been so devastating if Shepard was at all believable, but she's not. She's generic Shepard with simple dialogue so new players don't feel left out. Kaidan acts like he's supposed to, Shepard is just reading her lines.


I think you stated it perfectly Jho, especially the part I put in bold is what really annoyed me.

Everyone knows where I stand on Horizon, I wanted to strangle my own toon for the words coming out of her mouth.


I third that motion

#30962
syllogi

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Kioux wrote...

Heh - hate to sound pessimistic but I still don't think BW grasped our desire to see more content. No idea if my letter and that of others ever came through or were ever read. No idea if anyone actually ever comes in here to check - I suppose they do but that's to keep it clean and not so much about what we want.

Oh boy... I might have to find myself a clown to chew on him for breakfast, maybe the pessimism will go away...


I want to keep being optimistic, and believe that they do notice the fans, so until I see announcements telling me otherwise, I'll keep hoping that Kaidan/Ashley and Liara are squadmates in the last game.  We were told before ME2 came out that these characters were only making cameos, because they had important roles in the last game, and anyone can be bumped off in ME2.  They put character info for these three on the website, so that new players could learn about them.  And most important, they did take fan feedback into account for the second game, so hopefully, they'll continue to do so. 

The Kaidan Support Thread has been the third most active LI support thread on this forum, since version 1 was created.  Considering his tiny role in ME2, how much hate Kaidan gets from some people, and how dismissive many are of him as a character, that's pretty cool.  I want to believe that the devs have taken notice.

#30963
jillyfae

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Fourth, for strangling of craptastic Shepard lines on Horizon.

And, Sapphy's got a new fic going... Everything's Not Fine

Modifié par jillyfae, 29 avril 2010 - 07:08 .


#30964
Shenzi

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jillyfae wrote...

Fourth, for strangling of craptastic Shepard lines on Horizon.

And, Sapphy's got a new fic going... Everything's Not Fine


I loved that, after all that Shep went through in ME2 you can see how she would be really pissed off at the constant doubts about her.

#30965
*Kioux*

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TeenZombie wrote...
I want to keep being optimistic, and believe that they do notice the fans, so until I see announcements telling me otherwise, I'll keep hoping that Kaidan/Ashley and Liara are squadmates in the last game.  We were told before ME2 came out that these characters were only making cameos, because they had important roles in the last game, and anyone can be bumped off in ME2.  They put character info for these three on the website, so that new players could learn about them.  And most important, they did take fan feedback into account for the second game, so hopefully, they'll continue to do so. 

The Kaidan Support Thread has been the third most active LI support thread on this forum, since version 1 was created.  Considering his tiny role in ME2, how much hate Kaidan gets from some people, and how dismissive many are of him as a character, that's pretty cool.  I want to believe that the devs have taken notice.


My post sounded maybe a bit drastic - it's due to my muffed mood. I was mainly referring to any DLC that will be out before ME3.
Deep inside I'm hoping for a good solution in ME3 - Kaidan will be SMate, we will be able to rebuilt our lovely relationship, he will have a lot of text and there will be a very happy end. If I can't believe in that anymore... then I don't know anymore.
I'm hoping that we've been noticed - but as long as there is no statement from BW in any possible way, I just have my doubts. Forgive my mood - I just can't help it somtimes :)

#30966
Shenzi

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Kioux wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
I want to keep being optimistic, and believe that they do notice the fans, so until I see announcements telling me otherwise, I'll keep hoping that Kaidan/Ashley and Liara are squadmates in the last game.  We were told before ME2 came out that these characters were only making cameos, because they had important roles in the last game, and anyone can be bumped off in ME2.  They put character info for these three on the website, so that new players could learn about them.  And most important, they did take fan feedback into account for the second game, so hopefully, they'll continue to do so. 

The Kaidan Support Thread has been the third most active LI support thread on this forum, since version 1 was created.  Considering his tiny role in ME2, how much hate Kaidan gets from some people, and how dismissive many are of him as a character, that's pretty cool.  I want to believe that the devs have taken notice.


My post sounded maybe a bit drastic - it's due to my muffed mood. I was mainly referring to any DLC that will be out before ME3.
Deep inside I'm hoping for a good solution in ME3 - Kaidan will be SMate, we will be able to rebuilt our lovely relationship, he will have a lot of text and there will be a very happy end. If I can't believe in that anymore... then I don't know anymore.
I'm hoping that we've been noticed - but as long as there is no statement from BW in any possible way, I just have my doubts. Forgive my mood - I just can't help it somtimes :)


I understand where you're coming from, I'm a cynic myself, it comes from playing MMOs for so long.  In MMOs it's standard procedure that you're promised all sorts of things from the developers to improve your class, that they have been reading the forums and understand the problems, and then the patch notes are released and you find out that not only have they not fixed any of the preexisting problems but that you've just been hit with the nerf bat as well.

I would love some more info from the developers.  They could be avoiding releasing info till the last moment about ME3 because no matter what they do they are going to leave some group pissed off, they just dug themselves in too deep with so many characters.   Given what has been said so far I think we'll be taken care of but until the game is actually out there will always be doubts.

Modifié par Shenzi, 29 avril 2010 - 07:25 .


#30967
Jhourney

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TeenZombie wrote...

Kioux wrote...

Heh - hate to sound pessimistic but I still don't think BW grasped our desire to see more content. No idea if my letter and that of others ever came through or were ever read. No idea if anyone actually ever comes in here to check - I suppose they do but that's to keep it clean and not so much about what we want.

Oh boy... I might have to find myself a clown to chew on him for breakfast, maybe the pessimism will go away...


I want to keep being optimistic, and believe that they do notice the fans, so until I see announcements telling me otherwise, I'll keep hoping that Kaidan/Ashley and Liara are squadmates in the last game.  We were told before ME2 came out that these characters were only making cameos, because they had important roles in the last game, and anyone can be bumped off in ME2.  They put character info for these three on the website, so that new players could learn about them.  And most important, they did take fan feedback into account for the second game, so hopefully, they'll continue to do so. 

The Kaidan Support Thread has been the third most active LI support thread on this forum, since version 1 was created.  Considering his tiny role in ME2, how much hate Kaidan gets from some people, and how dismissive many are of him as a character, that's pretty cool.  I want to believe that the devs have taken notice.


I think they have, after all fan threads are being watched to see if they stay on topic...so they are at least having a looksee every now and then. And I agree, the fact that we're still here says a lot :) Let's keep on going!

#30968
jillyfae

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@Jho: You make the prettiest sig bars. (And avatars, but that's been up for awhile now.) Just sayin'

#30969
Shenzi

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Love the line about Cerberus stamped on her ass Jho, it didn't make it into the current draft of the chapter I'm working on but I originally had Joker making the comment that "Shep lost the tattoo on her ass that said 'property of Kaidan Alenko' when Cerberus rebuilt her" in a discussion about the multitude of suitors Shep has on the SR2.

#30970
chem light

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Jhosephine wrote...

Joisan wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...
Could be the Liara DLC..and maybe if we're lucky they'll throw us a bone too? I would bark like a chihuahua and play the fetching game if we got something Kaidan related.


Yeah.  We'll just have to wait and see, I guess, but the Liara DLC seems a likely prospect.  Wonder what her fans will think of it.

And yes, if it had anything to do with Kaidan, I would definitely start bouncing around and barking like my dog when he knows you're about to take him on a walk or to play fetch.


hehe maybe someone from BW will see this and keep it in mind, promising us content if we actually deliver on the barking. Oh the madness of the vids we would be making, and trust me...I would.
Desperate much? Who me? :P


I think they should be more worried about what we'll do if we DON'T get more Kai Kai in either DLC or ME3.  To bring back my old sig:

"Have you ever faced a hoard of rabid fangirls?  Few developers have....well...no, actually....I'm sure it happens all the time."

#30971
chem light

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Shenzi wrote...

Love the line about Cerberus stamped on her ass Jho, it didn't make it into the current draft of the chapter I'm working on but I originally had Joker making the comment that "Shep lost the tattoo on her ass that said 'property of Kaidan Alenko' when Cerberus rebuilt her" in a discussion about the multitude of suitors Shep has on the SR2.

pfffft....keyboard: you owe me one.

#30972
sesheta255

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Morning all, such deep conversations to read through so early in the morning, lol



@Jho - couldn't agree more with what you said about Shepard and Horizon

@Sapphy - love the fic, can't wait for more

@Shenzi - you have to put that line in somewhere, its brilliant

#30973
chem light

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sesh, you changed your face.

#30974
sesheta255

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@Chem - yeah all my DAO character pics decided to go awol so I had to try & get them to reappear on the site, still missing a couple though. I couldn't get used to the Shep avi so I dumped her, not that I like my new face any better, lol. she's my warden in my current playthrough of DAO. I uploaded a generic warden so that I can get a decent screenshot of my real Shep and make another avi now that I've installed fraps.

Just finding it hard to work up the motivation for ME2 atm.  The more I play it, the more disillusioned I get with bioware.  Now that there's a bar onboard, courtesy of Kasumi I think my shep is going to spend a lot of time drinking, lol

Modifié par sesheta255, 29 avril 2010 - 08:06 .


#30975
Shenzi

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sesheta255 wrote...

Morning all, such deep conversations to read through so early in the morning, lol

@Jho - couldn't agree more with what you said about Shepard and Horizon
@Sapphy - love the fic, can't wait for more
@Shenzi - you have to put that line in somewhere, its brilliant


I put it back in, I should have a copy up on ff.net in a few hours.  Just working through the copious notes from my betas atm.