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Kaidan Alenko Support Thread Part 2


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#34326
Collider

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Joisan wrote...

I wouldn't have minded bisexual Kaidan or Ash.  In fact, I think it would have added an interesting new dimension to their characters to have them be bisexual because neither of them really seem the sort who you would expect to be gay or bisexual based on stereotypes.  I know the Ash fans are a bit more split on the matter than us, however.

I do think that in general women are more accepting of LGBT people. Reasoning? Not completely certain.

In the Ashley thread, indeed, they seem to be less okay of the idea of them being bisexual. All comes down to taste.

#34327
syllogi

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Joisan wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

It would have pleased me greatly if those options had been in the first game.  I assume nothing would have changed about the heterosexual romances if there had been same sex versions, and personally, I would have loved the opportunity to romance Ashley on a female character, so it would be pretty silly for me to be opposed to a M/M Kaidan romance.

Now, how would I feel if they added the option in ME3, with characters who previously were heterosexual only?  The same, but I'd be curious as to how they'd handle it.  If they could work it into the game in a thoughtful and well written way, it would be pretty interesting.


This too.  You're so much more eloquent on the issue than I am.


I fixed my computer today so I can quote people on the main forums again, and typing is SO much easier this way.  I hate web browsing on my phone, it makes me feel like my fingers are giant.  :P

#34328
fortunesque

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Collider wrote...

I have a question for you all. Did you know that, according to a developer, Kaidan and Ashley were going to be bisexual options, but their same sex romances were cut?  What do you think about that? Was just wondering how Kaidan and Ashley fans would think about this topic.


An interesting question.

I wouldn't have minded, though neither character strikes me as bi.

I think it's a shame that m/m and f/f romances were cut from the first game, then completely left out in the second game. Sure, the lbgt gaming demographic is small (according to lots of folks), but it wouldn't have taken many extra resources to plan for one. Ken was meant to be the male version of Kelly, but his content was cut as well. One would assume that he would have provided a m/m fling.

I'm of the opinion that because ME is BW's "flagship" game of the moment, they toned down some of the controversial themes that they've been known for in other games. It's quite a shame IMO.

Anyway, that's kind of a pollitical discussion. Long story short; Bi Ash or Kaidan wouldn't have bothered me in the least.

#34329
Shenzi

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Collider wrote...

Joisan wrote...

I wouldn't have minded bisexual Kaidan or Ash.  In fact, I think it would have added an interesting new dimension to their characters to have them be bisexual because neither of them really seem the sort who you would expect to be gay or bisexual based on stereotypes.  I know the Ash fans are a bit more split on the matter than us, however.

I do think that in general women are more accepting of LGBT people. Reasoning? Not completely certain.

In the Ashley thread, indeed, they seem to be less okay of the idea of them being bisexual. All comes down to taste.

They are.

My husband and his friends are always going on about girl on girl but mention 2 guys and they look like they are going to vomit.

#34330
sesheta255

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Sialater wrote...

Well, I don't play men. So, I didn't even know Sky was bisexual till I read the forums. Still didn't matter.

My female character romanced Skye and I knew he was bi but it didn't worry me.  I don't have a problem with Zev in DAO either.  I will admit that my male warden did go to the tent with Zev, but my eyes are still bleeding from that because I forgot that I still had the better sex mod on my game at the time, lmao.  My best friend in RL is bi, so its not an issue for me.Posted Image

#34331
chem light

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Shenzi wrote...

Lots-o-posting tonight, the morning crew is gonna be scratching their heads over it.

Good. *maniacal laugh*  NOw I can have my revenge for them adding ten pages while I'm at work.  That's a lot of reading!

#34332
fortunesque

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Shenzi wrote...

Collider wrote...

Joisan wrote...

I wouldn't have minded bisexual Kaidan or Ash.  In fact, I think it would have added an interesting new dimension to their characters to have them be bisexual because neither of them really seem the sort who you would expect to be gay or bisexual based on stereotypes.  I know the Ash fans are a bit more split on the matter than us, however.

I do think that in general women are more accepting of LGBT people. Reasoning? Not completely certain.

In the Ashley thread, indeed, they seem to be less okay of the idea of them being bisexual. All comes down to taste.

They are.

My husband and his friends are always going on about girl on girl but mention 2 guys and they look like they are going to vomit.



Kaidan, I don't think I've had the pleasure of you serving under me. Don't you think it's time to *cough*erectify*cough* that? :pinched:

#34333
Shenzi

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chem light wrote...

Shenzi wrote...

Lots-o-posting tonight, the morning crew is gonna be scratching their heads over it.

Good. *maniacal laugh*  NOw I can have my revenge for them adding ten pages while I'm at work.  That's a lot of reading!

If it's a lot of pages in the time I've been offline I don't try and catch up.

I actually lurked this thread for a few weeks trying to read it all before I said f-it and jumped in head first.

#34334
Joisan

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Shenzi wrote...

They are.

My husband and his friends are always going on about girl on girl but mention 2 guys and they look like they are going to vomit.


It's complete BS, really.  And in fact, it's sexist.  But this isn't the place for a Gender and Women's Studies rant.

#34335
Shenzi

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fortunesque wrote...

Shenzi wrote...

Collider wrote...

Joisan wrote...

I wouldn't have minded bisexual Kaidan or Ash.  In fact, I think it would have added an interesting new dimension to their characters to have them be bisexual because neither of them really seem the sort who you would expect to be gay or bisexual based on stereotypes.  I know the Ash fans are a bit more split on the matter than us, however.

I do think that in general women are more accepting of LGBT people. Reasoning? Not completely certain.

In the Ashley thread, indeed, they seem to be less okay of the idea of them being bisexual. All comes down to taste.

They are.

My husband and his friends are always going on about girl on girl but mention 2 guys and they look like they are going to vomit.



Kaidan, I don't think I've had the pleasure of you serving under me. Don't you think it's time to *cough*erectify*cough* that? :pinched:

I saw that not too long ago on the thread devoted to gay romance in the ME universe.

#34336
drunken pyromaniac

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Collider wrote...

I do think that in general women are more accepting of LGBT people. Reasoning? Not completely certain.

In the Ashley thread, indeed, they seem to be less okay of the idea of them being bisexual. All comes down to taste.

I can't speak for everyone in the Ash thread but for me it's not that they couldn't have been bi in ME1 it's that people don't want their sexuality to be redefined. That cheapens the character in my mind.

#34337
Shenzi

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Joisan wrote...

Shenzi wrote...

They are.

My husband and his friends are always going on about girl on girl but mention 2 guys and they look like they are going to vomit.


It's complete BS, really.  And in fact, it's sexist.  But this isn't the place for a Gender and Women's Studies rant.

We could devote pages to it I'm sure. 

My sister is a lesbian and has tons of gay men couples as friends so I've been around it since my teens and I'm almost 40 now.

Back to our regularly schedule drooling.

Posted Image

#34338
chem light

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I continue to love that picture.

#34339
fortunesque

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drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Collider wrote...

I do think that in general women are more accepting of LGBT people. Reasoning? Not completely certain.

In the Ashley thread, indeed, they seem to be less okay of the idea of them being bisexual. All comes down to taste.

I can't speak for everyone in the Ash thread but for me it's not that they couldn't have been bi in ME1 it's that people don't want their sexuality to be redefined. That cheapens the character in my mind.


I agree with this as well. They've been established as straight, so changing that would be really strange.

It's a moot point though. In interviews, they've pretty much said that there will be no homosexual relationships in Mass Effect at any point and that Liara is "asexual" or something. :huh:

#34340
Joisan

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drunken pyromaniac wrote...
I can't speak for everyone in the Ash thread but for me it's not that they couldn't have been bi in ME1 it's that people don't want their sexuality to be redefined. That cheapens the character in my mind.


True.  If they were to implement bisexual Kaidan and Ash in ME3, Bioware would have to be really careful and skillful in how they implement it.

#34341
legbamel

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drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Collider wrote...

I do think that in general women are more accepting of LGBT people. Reasoning? Not completely certain.

In the Ashley thread, indeed, they seem to be less okay of the idea of them being bisexual. All comes down to taste.

I can't speak for everyone in the Ash thread but for me it's not that they couldn't have been bi in ME1 it's that people don't want their sexuality to be redefined. That cheapens the character in my mind.


That would be my concern as well.  It wouldn't have bothered me if they'd been bi in the first game but to change the hetero romances to bi just to say they'd done so is a crappy way to treat the character.  I know Shep is irresistable, but c'mon!

#34342
Collider

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that Liara is "asexual" or something.


Thought that was pretty stupid of them to say. I can see why they did though. Casey said that Liara's romance was not F/F possibly because of the place he was saying it in. It was a Best Buy chat that was moderated by Best Buy people who were throwing out questions to Bioware about homosexual options. I assume that the Best Buy moderators didn't know what F/F meant and when Casey got the question he tried to maneuver around it with the mono gendered stuff. If it means anything, another developer on the forums have said that Bioware does consider the Liara romance with femshep as lesbian. So Hudson is just doing the PR spin here.

#34343
Shenzi

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legbamel wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Collider wrote...

I do think that in general women are more accepting of LGBT people. Reasoning? Not completely certain.

In the Ashley thread, indeed, they seem to be less okay of the idea of them being bisexual. All comes down to taste.

I can't speak for everyone in the Ash thread but for me it's not that they couldn't have been bi in ME1 it's that people don't want their sexuality to be redefined. That cheapens the character in my mind.


That would be my concern as well.  It wouldn't have bothered me if they'd been bi in the first game but to change the hetero romances to bi just to say they'd done so is a crappy way to treat the character.  I know Shep is irresistable, but c'mon!



Well there are a few characters from ME2 that weren't involved in romance that could be utilized although how many people would be attracted to a romance with zaeed I'm not really sure Posted Image.

#34344
fortunesque

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Collider wrote...

that Liara is "asexual" or something.

Thought that was pretty stupid of them to say. I can see why they did though. Casey said that Liara's romance was not F/F possibly because of the place he was saying it in. It was a Best Buy chat that was moderated by Best Buy people who were throwing out questions to Bioware about homosexual options. I assume that the Best Buy moderators didn't know what F/F meant and when Casey got the question he tried to maneuver around it with the mono gendered stuff. If it means anything, another developer on the forums have said that Bioware does consider the Liara romance with femshep as lesbian. So Hudson is just doing the PR spin here.


Nope.

He said it in another interview as well with a gaming site. Let me see if I can dig up the link for you...

#34345
Shenzi

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Collider wrote...


that Liara is "asexual" or something.

Thought that was pretty stupid of them to say. I can see why they did though. Casey said that Liara's romance was not F/F possibly because of the place he was saying it in. It was a Best Buy chat that was moderated by Best Buy people who were throwing out questions to Bioware about homosexual options. I assume that the Best Buy moderators didn't know what F/F meant and when Casey got the question he tried to maneuver around it with the mono gendered stuff. If it means anything, another developer on the forums have said that Bioware does consider the Liara romance with femshep as lesbian. So Hudson is just doing the PR spin here.


uh, liara's romance wasn't considered f/f.  wtf...

#34346
Collider

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Nope.



He said it in another interview as well with a gaming site. Let me see if I can dig up the link for you...


Really? Hmm...probably another case of PR spin.

#34347
syllogi

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Collider wrote...

that Liara is "asexual" or something.

Thought that was pretty stupid of them to say. I can see why they did though. Casey said that Liara's romance was not F/F possibly because of the place he was saying it in. It was a Best Buy chat that was moderated by Best Buy people who were throwing out questions to Bioware about homosexual options. I assume that the Best Buy moderators didn't know what F/F meant and when Casey got the question he tried to maneuver around it with the mono gendered stuff. If it means anything, another developer on the forums have said that Bioware does consider the Liara romance with femshep as lesbian. So Hudson is just doing the PR spin here.


Well, he also called her Tali in that Best Buy chat, so who knows what he meant to say.  I think he wanted to say "monosexual" but thought "asexual" was the same thing.  It really, really isn't.

#34348
Lady of the Waters

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TeenZombie wrote...

I responded kind of harshly a few days ago when you came into this thread to "stereotype" it, while real discussion was going on before and after your post.  You're doing the same thing now; there is plenty of discussion on the last few pages that you could join in, if you cared to, or you could start a new topic and I'm sure people would join in, but you're back just to state your opinion and leave again.  What's the point? 

If you don't like character support threads, and you don't feel that they are "inclusive," nothing is stopping you from using Ecael's Adblocking Thread to keep them out of your view.  There is no "sway" that exists on the forums, just because people post in those threads.  If you'd rather just ignore them, and post in other threads, nothing is stopping you.

Or, you could do what many people do, and go from thread to thread and actually participate in discussions, without worrying about "cliques." 

Personally, I think that while certain individuals who post a lot might express their views on characters they do or don't like, no groups on this forum are organized into rivalries.  And I'm glad that we have posters in this group, for instance, who are big fans of other love interests, and alert us to fan fiction and art that I wouldn't have been exposed to otherwise, because I simply don't have the time to go to every LI thread more than once in a long while.  

I don't expect anything of the character threads but social interaction with other fans, good discussion, and sharing fan fiction and fan art.  I don't know what else you think we should be doing in here, but I enjoy these threads, and I'm glad they exist.


That post was meant in jest... if you took offense to it then I apologize. I will try to be more civil from now on, if that is what you wish. Just so you know I do support Kaidan... And it's not that I don't like the whole concept of supporting characters you like, I love it in fact.. I just feel that:

A) It is creating division - I have heard several people in character support threads admit that they stick to that thread almost always and rarely visit others. While fans of different characters do interact with each other it isn't as frequent as it used to be... I just wish people would mingle more and not be afraid to discuss things with someone who belongs to another thread (e.g. the Tali and Miranda threads - I believe both have admitted to not being the best of friends at points [like Emil who said something along the lines of there being a "cold war" between the two])

B) It is preventing people from having in-depth discussion of the actual story and having too much focus on individual characters (his forum is titled "Official Campaign Quests and Storylines" for a reason - I don't see why they can't create a different forum for this purpose, e.g. "Character discussion"). Using the adblocking thing won't help as this is a community issue, not just an individual problem, I don't think me using the adblocker will make people any more willing to engage in in-depth story discussion and questions.

C) When I say I don't have any "sway" I mean that because the majority of fans tend to be so wrapped up in their own support threads if I post an individual thread asking questions about the story then it will not receive nearly as much attention as anything support thread related.

I just want more peace and interaction with the support threads and more relevance to the actual story in this forum. Is that such a bad thing?

Modifié par Lady of the Waters, 16 mai 2010 - 03:20 .


#34349
Collider

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It's complete bull if they say that Liara's romance with femshep wasn't F/F. Liara is still female - she's just not a woman. They're trying to use the technicality that the Asari are monogendered to imply that they are asexual and it wasn't F/F. I can see that the Hudson said this for PR, but I'd rather he hadn't.

#34350
fortunesque

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Interview with Casey Hudson and Ray Muzyka.



Still looking for the "asexual" one, because I swear he said it outside of the Best Buy chat.