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[Shenzi]

Heading to bed myself, NN all.  Pleasants Kaidan dreams to all  .

[sapphyreelf]

Lady of the Waters wrote...

...snipped for brevity...

C) When I say I don't have any "sway" I mean that because the majority of fans tend to be so wrapped up in their own support threads if I post an individual thread asking questions about the story then it will not receive nearly as much attention as anything support thread related.

The relevance of the characters in the story is important to alot of fans. The Mass Effect story is told from the player's perspective (Commander Shepard) and what good would the story be without a detailed supporting cast. For me, those details make Commander Shepard a more human figure.

Most of the character support threads were started because most of the fans are worried from a story perspective on where that character is going to fit into the relevance of ME3. None of the squad members in ME1 or ME2 are in a "secure" position as to how they are going to play into ME3. Every character besides Liara could possibly be dead. And there is nothing to suggest that Liara is guaranteed to be a squad member.

[drunken pyromaniac]

*peeks in*

Oh good, I was worried I'd be blasted and called a homophobe..

[fortunesque]

Lady of the Waters wrote...



That post was meant in jest... if you took offense to it then I apologize. I will try to be more civil from now on, if that is what you wish. Just so you know I do support Kaidan... And it's not that I don't like the whole concept of supporting characters you like, I love it in fact.. I just feel that:

A) It is creating division - I have heard several people in character support threads admit that they stick to that thread almost always and rarely visit others. While fans of different characters do interact with each other it isn't as frequent as it used to be... I just wish people would mingle more and not be afraid to discuss things with someone who belongs to another thread (e.g. the Tali and Miranda threads - I believe both have admitted to not being the best of friends at points [like Emil who said something along the lines of there being a "cold war" between the two])

It is preventing people from having in-depth discussion of the actual story and having too much focus on individual characters (his forum is titled "Official Campaign Quests and Storylines" for a reason - I don't see why they can't create a different forum for this purpose, e.g. "Character discussion"). Using the adblocking thing won't help as this is a community issue, not just an individual problem, I don't think me using the adblocker will make people any more willing to engage in in-depth story discussion and questions.

C) When I say I don't have any "sway" I mean that because the majority of fans tend to be so wrapped up in their own support threads if I post an individual thread asking questions about the story then it will not receive nearly as much attention as anything support thread related.

I just want more peace and interaction with the support threads and more relevance to the actual story in this forum. Is that such a bad thing?

1. The people in this thread stick to this thread because they enjoy it. I'd mingle more if people outside this thread weren't constant jerks about any dissenting opinions. It gets really tiring having someone call you stupid for saying that you didn't like ME2's shooter angle etc. Notice I didn't say anything like "character thread x doesn't like us" or "every time I go out, someone from another thread is mean to me".

2. This forum is the Campaign, Quests, and Storylines forum. The squadmates, LIs and NPCs are part of this forum; they could belong under all three of the categories, depending on what the conversation is about. The character threads are allowed to be on this forum. It is up to the discretion of the devs to decide if there are too many or if they're creating division in the community.

3. If you have a question about the story and it doesn't get answered, it isn't the support threads' faults. It just is what it is. Keep asking; be persistent if you have to. PM someone that seems to know a lot about the story.

I think the problem is that you see each character thread as its own gang that will slit the throats of the other character threads. From what I know, none of the character threads are like this; any fights are between 3-4 users that like to beat up on each other while everyone else sits back and waits for them to stop.

This particular thread has not once trolled or been spiteful to another thread. Quite frankly, I find your overgeneralizations that we're all a bunch of hateful factions that throw rotten tomatoes at each other to be very insulting.

[sapphyreelf]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

*peeks in*
Oh good, I was worried I'd be blasted and called a homophobe..

Nah, you made a good point from where you are coming from. No worries, DP.

[drunken pyromaniac]

sapphyreelf wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

*peeks in*
Oh good, I was worried I'd be blasted and called a homophobe..

Nah, you made a good point from where you are coming from. No worries, DP.

Whew. *is relieved*

[janeym27]

fortunesque wrote...

Lady of the Waters wrote...


*snip*

1. The people in this thread stick to this thread because they enjoy it. I'd mingle more if people outside this thread weren't constant jerks about any dissenting opinions. It gets really tiring having someone call you stupid for saying that you didn't like ME2's shooter angle etc. Notice I didn't say anything like "character thread x doesn't like us" or "every time I go out, someone from another thread is mean to me".

2. This forum is the Campaign, Quests, and Storylines forum. The squadmates, LIs and NPCs are part of this forum; they could belong under all three of the categories, depending on what the conversation is about. The character threads are allowed to be on this forum. It is up to the discretion of the devs to decide if there are too many or if they're creating division in the community.

3. If you have a question about the story and it doesn't get answered, it isn't the support threads' faults. It just is what it is. Keep asking; be persistent if you have to. PM someone that seems to know a lot about the story.

I think the problem is that you see each character thread as its own gang that will slit the throats of the other character threads. From what I know, none of the character threads are like this; any fights are between 3-4 users that like to beat up on each other while everyone else sits back and waits for them to stop.

This particular thread has not once trolled or been spiteful to another thread. Quite frankly, I find your overgeneralizations that we're all a bunch of hateful factions that throw rotten tomatoes at each other to be very insulting.

Most of this.

I lurk in this thread lots  (I posted some smut once or twice. lol) But I don't think that posting more in one thread on another is a 'bad' thing. And I cannot see any direct 'thread' rivalry. As you said, it's usually a few idiots that make the rest of us go <_<. And they do it in ALL the threads.

Also, replaying ME1. Dreading Virmire. I have declared this a 'save Ash PT' (I don't have one of those), but Kaiden makes that so. damn. hard. I've been thinking about ME3. and where they might take him as a character. I  hope that they don't roll the Virmire survivors into one development (I trust them not to). What do you guys want for Kaiden in ME3?

[syllogi]

Lady of the Waters wrote...

That post was meant in jest... if you took offense to it then I apologize. I will try to be more civil from now on, if that is what you wish. Just so you know I do support Kaidan... And it's not that I don't like the whole concept of supporting characters you like, I love it in fact.. I just feel that:

A) It is creating division - I have heard several people in character support threads admit that they stick to that thread almost always and rarely visit others. While fans of different characters do interact with each other it isn't as frequent as it used to be... I just wish people would mingle more and not be afraid to discuss things with someone who belongs to another thread (e.g. the Tali and Miranda threads - I believe both have admitted to not being the best of friends at points [like Emil who said something along the lines of there being a "cold war" between the two])

It is preventing people from having in-depth discussion of the actual story and having too much focus on individual characters (his forum is titled "Official Campaign Quests and Storylines" for a reason - I don't see why they can't create a different forum for this purpose, e.g. "Character discussion"). Using the adblocking thing won't help as this is a community issue, not just an individual problem, I don't think me using the adblocker will make people any more willing to engage in in-depth story discussion and questions.

C) When I say I don't have any "sway" I mean that because the majority of fans tend to be so wrapped up in their own support threads if I post an individual thread asking questions about the story then it will not receive nearly as much attention as anything support thread related.

I just want more peace and interaction with the support threads and more relevance to the actual story in this forum. Is that such a bad thing?

I think that coming into the thread, especially when there was interesting discussion going on before and after your post, and doing what you did, which was "call out" specific posters, and basically tell us we have no content, when you could have easily joined in the conversation, was very rude.  I honestly don't care when people come into this thread to bash Kaidan, who is just a fictional character, but it really bothers me when people attack other forum goers, who are real and have feelings.  Just because you don't see the people you're putting down, doesn't mean that they can't be affected by your words.  So even if you're not talking about me, I'm going to react.  You say it was a joke, but it wasn't particularly nice, so I reacted in kind.

As far as character threads creating division, I disagree, especially since there is nothing preventing anyone from posting in all threads.  If these forums consisted of nothing but private social groups, and there was no interaction between them, you'd have a point, but as it is, the forum is what you make of it.  If you want to hang in the Tali thread AND the Liara thread, go ahead.  People do so already, and are not chased away or made to feel bad for doing so.  And if some individual tried to do something like that, they'd probably be laughed at.

If you prefer discussions about story rather than individual characters, that's fine, again, there is nothing preventing you from making threads or posting in existing threads about your preferred topic.  If people don't join in the discussion, that means that the subject just isn't that interesting to people, not that character threads are preventing people from posting.  Using my own experience as an example, I don't feel that the ME2 story was very good, but I'm not going to go into threads about ME2 and knock it.  So I'll stick to threads I can positively contribute to without having to resort to debating with those who think I'm trolling because I don't agree with the majority.

If you had been to the old Bioware forums, you would think that Kaidan was the most hated character, and some people still insist on bashing him if his name is even mentioned.  Having the support thread is a refreshing haven for fans who want to talk about him, without having a few loud detractors tell us we all suck for having our own opinions.  Of course, they come to this thread and do that anyway, but here we can post shirtless Kaidan pics in response, and it's on topic. 

[fortunesque]

Hey janeym27!



Virmire sucks hardcore. I love Ash; she's my second favorite squaddie.



As far as ME3 is concerned, I have a few wishes for Kaidan:

1. Squadmate status.

2. Dialogue that is unique from Ashley's.

3. The possibility that Shepard and Kaidan can both live through the end with the relationship clearly intact

4. A similar skill set to ME1- he's a combination of a mage/rogue class, so I want to see that instead of ammo/weapons powers

5. A difference in his L2 implants' power vs other squadmates such as Jacob.



1-3 are vital, 4 & 5 are things that would be kind of nice.

[janeym27]

Cool. I agree with all of thi list.



I think I meant, are there any paths you think his character should take? He's a higher rank now. He's 'not holding back' on his powers. He may well have had his heart broken (twice). Any paths you'd like to see him walk?

[Lady of the Waters]

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, I'll say that I do NOT assume that all members of support threads are spiteful haters, but those types DO exist, whether you want to admit it or not and as a result of their actions they can invoke fear and/or hate from other people which causes them to want to stay away/keep their distance.

I have said what I said because I am concerned for the community, please don't assume I am trolling, like I said, I just want people to mingle more and for there to be more relevance to the forum... I will stand by my view, but I can see people here disagree, and that's okay. It's good to see people's different points of view. I've already had several people in disagreement and agreement with me.

After having said what I've said however I'm not sure if people will be to willing to engage me in civilized conversation of ANY type...  Hopefully I am wrong though. People clearly hold strong views on the matter... I felt it was a matter worth discussing. No hard feelings, okay?

Modifié par Lady of the Waters, 16 mai 2010 - 04:12 .

[fortunesque]

Since regulations aren't holding him back, I could see him being a little more open with his opinions. It would depend on what kind of position he's in though. If the Council sends him along to keep track of Shepard, he'd likely be very gracious and certainly wouldn't lord his position over Shepard.



No matter what, though, I'd expect him to be the same nice guy that defers to the person in charge. He'd only contradict Shepard if he had a huge issue with what he/she was doing.



If he's an LI and the relationship has been continued, I would like to see him pursue Shepard a little more. I believe that quite a bit of his reservation stemmed from fear of being caught fraternizing, so it'd be nice to see a more 'romantic' kind of Kaidan.

[janeym27]

fortunesque wrote...

If he's an LI and the relationship has been continued, I would like to see him pursue Shepard a little more. I believe that quite a bit of his reservation stemmed from fear of being caught fraternizing, so it'd be nice to see a more 'romantic' kind of Kaidan.

Aadmiring the view with Shepard. Offering to buy her prett things... Yes. I could get on board with this.

[sesheta255]

janeym27 wrote...

Cool. I agree with all of thi list.

I think I meant, are there any paths you think his character should take? He's a higher rank now. He's 'not holding back' on his powers. He may well have had his heart broken (twice). Any paths you'd like to see him walk?

I agree with Fort's wishlist too.
I think Kaidan will be edgier and more forceful (as on Horizon) than he was in ME1 as a result of losing Shepard and what he's gone through in the 2 years before she came back.  His email seems to indicate that he will be.  I do still want him to retain the traits of watching Shepard's back and being the voice of reason and being a sounding board for Shep.  I personally don't want to see him as a Spectre, but if he is it won't worry me that much.  I think too that he will treat Shepard as much more of an equal rather than as 'the Commander', if that makes sense.  I think he will be hesitant because of the Cerberus thing at first but will thaw when he sees Shepard hasn't changed, but that's dependent on how you played the game in ME2 and whether your Shepard cheated or not.

[Collider]

Lady, I have just one question (sorry you've already answered). What do you suggest as an alternative to character threads?

[sapphyreelf]

Lady of the Waters wrote...

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, I'll say that I do NOT assume that all members of support threads are spiteful haters, but those types DO exist, whether you want to admit it or not and as a result of their actions they can invoke fear and/or hate from other people which causes them to want to stay away/keep their distance.

I have said what I said because I am concerned for the community, please don't assume I am trolling, like I said, I just want people to mingle more and for there to be more relevance to the forum... I will stand by my view, but I can see people here disagree, and that's okay. It's good to see people's different points of view. I've already had several people in disagreement and agreement with me.

After having said what I've said however I'm not sure if people will be to willing to engage me in civilized conversation of ANY type...  Hopefully I am wrong though. People clearly hold strong views on the matter... I felt it was a matter worth discussing. No hard feelings, okay?

You "claim" to be concerned for the community, but really, I've not seen you do much more than come in here and try to scold us because we aren't acting how you think we should be acting. We don't go running amok in the other threads stirring up trouble, but you had no problem going to all the character support threads and doing just that. Which is more damaging to the community?

Modifié par sapphyreelf, 16 mai 2010 - 04:22 .

[chem light]

I think it calls for at least one joke about him outranking her now. lover rivalry and all.

[fortunesque]

janeym27 wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

If he's an LI and the relationship has been continued, I would like to see him pursue Shepard a little more. I believe that quite a bit of his reservation stemmed from fear of being caught fraternizing, so it'd be nice to see a more 'romantic' kind of Kaidan.

Aadmiring the view with Shepard. Offering to buy her prett things... Yes. I could get on board with this.

Oyas. And I don't think he's the flowers type so much as this:

Shepard: Hey Kaidan. Whatcha doin?
Kaidan: *hides work quickly* uhhh nothing.... ma'am...
Shepard: Bull. What is it?
Kaidan: I...
Shepard: Well?
Kaidan: I tweaked your armor interface. It should really give you an edge.
Shepard: That's so thoughtful!
Kaidan: Well... uh... I'm glad you like it.
Shepard: *humphugtackle*

[janeym27]

sapphyreelf wrote...

Lady of the Waters wrote...

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, I'll say that I do NOT assume that all members of support threads are spiteful haters, but those types DO exist, whether you want to admit it or not and as a result of their actions they can invoke fear and/or hate from other people which causes them to want to stay away/keep their distance.

I have said what I said because I am concerned for the community, please don't assume I am trolling, like I said, I just want people to mingle more and for there to be more relevance to the forum... I will stand by my view, but I can see people here disagree, and that's okay. It's good to see people's different points of view. I've already had several people in disagreement and agreement with me.

After having said what I've said however I'm not sure if people will be to willing to engage me in civilized conversation of ANY type...  Hopefully I am wrong though. People clearly hold strong views on the matter... I felt it was a matter worth discussing. No hard feelings, okay?

You "claim" to be concerned for the community, but really, I've not seen you do much more than come in here and try to scold us because we aren't acting how you think we should be acting. We don't go running amok in the other threads stirring up trouble, but you had no problem going to all the character support threads and doing just that. Which is more damaging to the community?

I've actually noticed that the character threads seem to have banded together over this issue. Which sort of proves we are not devisive intentionally. :happy:

As I've said, the peopel who do troll or create devision or bad feeling tend to make the rest of us go <_<, and they do it all over the forum. How many threads attacking character threads do we need to have?

Back to Kaiden. I think he'd be a little more take chrage in ME3. Especially in love. He lsot her once, he's not going to let her go again.

EDIT: man. My typos are getting rediculous. Time for bed, methinks.

Modifié par janeym27, 16 mai 2010 - 04:25 .

[sapphyreelf]

chem light wrote...

I think it calls for at least one joke about him outranking her now. lover rivalry and all.

Definitely has to go with the theme of her serving under him. Y'know, for a nice throwback to ME1.

[Star]

Lady of the Waters wrote...

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, I'll say that I do NOT assume that all members of support threads are spiteful haters, but those types DO exist, whether you want to admit it or not and as a result of their actions they can invoke fear and/or hate from other people which causes them to want to stay away/keep their distance.

I have said what I said because I am concerned for the community, please don't assume I am trolling, like I said, I just want people to mingle more and for there to be more relevance to the forum... I will stand by my view, but I can see people here disagree, and that's okay. It's good to see people's different points of view. I've already had several people in disagreement and agreement with me.

After having said what I've said however I'm not sure if people will be to willing to engage me in civilized conversation of ANY type...  Hopefully I am wrong though. People clearly hold strong views on the matter... I felt it was a matter worth discussing. No hard feelings, okay?

First -- hi to the night crew   I've been lurking and reading off and on. Trying to finish a fic and send it off to Sesh to Aussie-ize. lol


@ Lady: I think you'll find we're friendly enough.  As TZ said, join in or start a topic of your own; if folks are interested, they'll respond. I also have to echo another of Teen's comments and that is, this is the first time in years (and I go back to the old old old Bioware BG forums) that I've been on a thread that is primarily made up of female gamers. It's been very welcoming and encouraging.  I do go out to other threads and other forms (like DA:O) but this is simply my favorite. Lots of talented, intelligent women sharing thoughts, stories and art.  Not that guys aren't welcome.... only a few are brave enough to stay and face all the shirtless Kaidan pics. lol 

[syllogi]

janeym27 wrote...

Cool. I agree with all of thi list.

I think I meant, are there any paths you think his character should take? He's a higher rank now. He's 'not holding back' on his powers. He may well have had his heart broken (twice). Any paths you'd like to see him walk?

I've thought about this lately, as I've been thinking about fan ficcing again, and I'd like to realistically portray how he might have changed over the last two years. 

I would definitely like to see him take more of a leadership role, in ME1 it made perfect sense for Kaidan to be very low key and defer to Shepard in their workplace, but now we assume that Kaidan/Ashley won't be working directly under Shepard anymore.  He's obviously had to lead others in order to be promoted to Staff Commander, so I'd like to see that reflected in the game. 

He was also kind of shy and cute around FemShep in the first game, and I'd like to see that relationship "grow up" in the way he interacts with her.  Even if they only had a few months together, he should be comfortable enough with Shepard now that he's not stumbling over words and acting unsure about how to tread.  I'd love to see him "pursue" the relationship with Shepard, without being stalkerish or pushy, by stating his intentions early. 

And it would be cool just to learn more about Kaidan's background and history.  I understand why Jump Zero was the focus of all his conversations, but I'd like to hear more than one story from each character.  For some reason, it seems like Ashley in ME1 and Miranda in ME2 were the most well rounded LIs in that we learned a lot about their interests and background.  It would be nice if they did the same for other love interests too, this time around.

[chem light]

love you Kai Kai quote in your sig janey. Speaking of sigs, how long until the tribal and clan signatures?



Anywho, this kid is goin' nighty night.

[Sialater]

Me, too. Sleep well!

[Lady of the Waters]

Collider wrote...

Lady, I have just one question (sorry you've already answered). What do you suggest as an alternative to character threads?

I've already answered it? Well, yes, I guess I did when I suggested creating a seperate area for character support threads, titled "Character discussion". That would be the best plan in I think... it wouldn't really solve the division of people IMO but it might place more focus on the storyline (non-squadmate involved storyline - though the character support threads don't focus on squadmate story 100% of the time, of course).
 
As some people have already mentioned they prefer the comfort of staying in their "home thread", so in doing this we wouldn't be getting rid of the character support  threads but simply move them to a different section. This is killing two birds with one stone in my view, people get to keep their comfort and belonging, and there is more focus on primary storyline (of which only a select few squadmates are a part of).