63501 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

Radahldo wrote...

Jacob's reasons for
defecting have always seemed a bit naive to me. It's been long enough
since I've actually talked to him that I don't recall all of them any
more, but at the time, I thought he was being deliberately ignorant of
some of Cerberus' activities.

It's a really vague "red tape" thing.
The
biggest thing I came away with was Jacob joined the Alliance for the
equipment and opportunity to do "good", with the whole developing a
sense of duty and respect for the Alliance being far secondary. He
didnt seem to anticipate all the rules. for some reason.
He joined the Corsairs, for a shorter leash; he does not elaborate sufficiently, but somehow found it too constricting.

And then Eden prime happened. I assume with his Alliance friends dying,
so did his most immediate attachment to the Alliance, so he resigned.

He's
definitely ignoring a lot of what Cerberus, but the Illusive Man claims
that in his talks with Jacob he's always been "honest in his lack of
trust" so, paradoxically, he does often look Cerberus in the eye.

But the main thing is Jacob has never been forced to do anything
distasteful, and thats enough for him for some reason. It just goes
back to the beginning with Jacob joining something to be equipped and
given an untrammeled opportunity to do "good", with that being all he
cares about. I find it very naive and irresponsible.

He also seems to enjoy glory.

Its
really the exact of opposite of Kaidan, who does not seek glory, has a
strong sense of duty and doesn't feel at all trammeled by the Alliance.

I feel, Kaidans reasons for joining partly concerned wanting to
make good of his biotic power, which he saw as an negative an
inalienable part of himself he has a duty to make good of. So Kaidans
reasons for joining were automatically more thought-out and less of a
facile commitment than Jacobs, since it had a lot more to do with his
identity.

Great post Radalho, and I have to agree.

Modifié par Collider, 27 mai 2010 - 11:57 .

[fortunesque]

@ Radahldo-



Those are my exact thoughts on Jacob as well. I find it irritating when people say Jacob and Kaidan are the same character when they're polar opposites. I guess it shows that they never really bothered to get to know the human male squadmates...

[Sialater]

Bah... humans are boring. [/tongue-in-cheek]

[JaerWolfe]

@Radahldo....very exccellent post. The 'glory' part of what you said is spot on, I think. Jacob is someone who would cut corners and we all know how Kaidan feels about cutting corners.

Thank you for posting that.

[Nightodie]

One thing I noticed about Jacob and Miranda also, whenever the "bad things" that Cerberus has done is brought up they always defer it to some other 'branch' of Cerberus. For example the military branch. Like it's okay they do it as long as it's not the scientific branch that they are in. Forgetting that if another branch it still reflects on them.

I also agree with  Radalho and really appreciate that you posted your well thought out discussion.  Kudos.

Modifié par Nightodie, 28 mai 2010 - 12:26 .

[legbamel]

I think that's very true. Jacob is in it for Jacob and Kaidan would not respect that.

[fortunesque]

Nightodie wrote...

One thing I noticed about Jacob and Miranda also, whenever the "bad things" that Cerberus has done is brought up they always defer it to some other 'branch' of Cerberus. For example the military branch. Like it's okay they do it as long as it's not the scientific branch that they are in. Forgetting that if another branch it still reflects on them.

Very much.

Crazy analogy:
If you fart, it's not your butt's fault... your butt is part of your body. It's not like you can disown your butt for making you look bad. 

I'm insane. It's official

[Nightodie]

fortunesque wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

One thing I noticed about Jacob and Miranda also, whenever the "bad things" that Cerberus has done is brought up they always defer it to some other 'branch' of Cerberus. For example the military branch. Like it's okay they do it as long as it's not the scientific branch that they are in. Forgetting that if another branch it still reflects on them.

Very much.

Crazy analogy:
If you fart, it's not your butt's fault... your butt is part of your body. It's not like you can disown your butt for making you look bad. 

I'm insane. It's official

Not insane, but you have an interesting way of looking at things.

And I love it so what does that say about me?

[fortunesque]

Nightodie wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

One thing I noticed about Jacob and Miranda also, whenever the "bad things" that Cerberus has done is brought up they always defer it to some other 'branch' of Cerberus. For example the military branch. Like it's okay they do it as long as it's not the scientific branch that they are in. Forgetting that if another branch it still reflects on them.

Very much.

Crazy analogy:
If you fart, it's not your butt's fault... your butt is part of your body. It's not like you can disown your butt for making you look bad. 

I'm insane. It's official

Not insane, but you have an interesting way of looking at things.

And I love it so what does that say about me?

It means that Jacob and Miranda fart and blame the dog whereas we own up to it... ?

[OdScIs]

@Fort
it's what you said about Kaidan and Jacob being similar.

People are just like that, they judge Kaidan for being winy and boring, but they didn't even "wasted time" on getting to know them. It's just like in real life, people judge without knowing anything or why a person is like that.

And about Jacob, i got to know him and...I dislike his back story, I HATE his romance, I HATE how Shepard talks to him with that "sexy" voice, I find his dialogs boring...and if he is so similar to Kaidan, why do i find all Kaidan stuff interesting?

Modifié par OdScIs, 28 mai 2010 - 12:33 .

[Nightodie]

fortunesque wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

One thing I noticed about Jacob and Miranda also, whenever the "bad things" that Cerberus has done is brought up they always defer it to some other 'branch' of Cerberus. For example the military branch. Like it's okay they do it as long as it's not the scientific branch that they are in. Forgetting that if another branch it still reflects on them.

Very much.

Crazy analogy:
If you fart, it's not your butt's fault... your butt is part of your body. It's not like you can disown your butt for making you look bad. 

I'm insane. It's official

Not insane, but you have an interesting way of looking at things.

And I love it so what does that say about me?

It means that Jacob and Miranda fart and blame the dog whereas we own up to it... ?

Well as long as we say excuse me.. Ah... Fort .... *conspirital whisper* what dog?

Modifié par Nightodie, 28 mai 2010 - 12:35 .

[stephee]

fortunesque wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

One thing I noticed about Jacob and Miranda also, whenever the "bad things" that Cerberus has done is brought up they always defer it to some other 'branch' of Cerberus. For example the military branch. Like it's okay they do it as long as it's not the scientific branch that they are in. Forgetting that if another branch it still reflects on them.

Very much.

Crazy analogy:
If you fart, it's not your butt's fault... your butt is part of your body. It's not like you can disown your butt for making you look bad. 

I'm insane. It's official

Fort, how much would i love to take your analogy (<_<) and tell it to Thane when he talks about if body being a weapon and all that.

[OdScIs]

@stephee

that's what i think...Thane does not want to be responsible of his acts, by the way, do you think if Thane kills someone "innocent", he'll feel guilty?

[Collider]

Thane does seem to genuinely feel guilt about his killings (the torturing of the slavers, at least) - however, he still has philosophy that can "exempt" him from bearing responsibilities for his actions. I imagine that the Hanar taught him this philosophy as part of assassin training.

[stephee]

Ods - interesting question, i think it would depend on how much he gets to know about his target. when he went vigilante, he probably knew alot more about the targets but when he was working for the highest bidder,it may have been different.

[Ecael]

fortunesque wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

One thing I noticed about Jacob and Miranda also, whenever the "bad things" that Cerberus has done is brought up they always defer it to some other 'branch' of Cerberus. For example the military branch. Like it's okay they do it as long as it's not the scientific branch that they are in. Forgetting that if another branch it still reflects on them.

Very much.

Crazy analogy:
If you fart, it's not your butt's fault... your butt is part of your body. It's not like you can disown your butt for making you look bad. 

I'm insane. It's official

Well, to keep up with the analogy, it's more as if that branch of Cerberus had irritable bowel syndrome and uncontrollable flatulence. So it's still a part of the whole, but they recognize that they no longer have control over that part of the body. You can't disown your butt, but it can certainly make you look bad without your permission.

[fortunesque]

Ecael wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

One thing I noticed about Jacob and Miranda also, whenever the "bad things" that Cerberus has done is brought up they always defer it to some other 'branch' of Cerberus. For example the military branch. Like it's okay they do it as long as it's not the scientific branch that they are in. Forgetting that if another branch it still reflects on them.

Very much.

Crazy analogy:
If you fart, it's not your butt's fault... your butt is part of your body. It's not like you can disown your butt for making you look bad. 

I'm insane. It's official

Well, to keep up with the analogy, it's more as if that branch of Cerberus had irritable bowel syndrome and uncontrollable flatulence. So it's still a part of the whole, but they recognize that they no longer have control over that part of the body. You can't disown your butt, but it can certainly make you look bad without your permission.

But you still say, "Hey, my butt made a mistake. It belongs to me."

The part of the package belongs to the whole when you're an organization. Quite frankly, Cerberus has way too much flatulence to excuse.

[*Kioux*]

@Od: I think so, yes. He speaks several times about having been asleep and refers to the time he was working for the Hanar. I actually think they brainwashed him a bit - after all, using an assassin who will question your every decision is not making much sense.

But besides that, he didn't shoot his wife and she would have been an innocent - and she was keeping him from finishing the job...



To quote my beloved Alistair: This sounded better in my head.

I basically just think that he went from a functioning assassin-tool to a fully emotional engaged person, aware of the things he did. Just my thoughts...



*snuggles into the black feathered wings of Oblivion*

[legbamel]

Ecael wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

One thing I noticed about Jacob and Miranda also, whenever the "bad things" that Cerberus has done is brought up they always defer it to some other 'branch' of Cerberus. For example the military branch. Like it's okay they do it as long as it's not the scientific branch that they are in. Forgetting that if another branch it still reflects on them.

Very much.

Crazy analogy:
If you fart, it's not your butt's fault... your butt is part of your body. It's not like you can disown your butt for making you look bad. 

I'm insane. It's official

Well, to keep up with the analogy, it's more as if that branch of Cerberus had irritable bowel syndrome and uncontrollable flatulence. So it's still a part of the whole, but they recognize that they no longer have control over that part of the body. You can't disown your butt, but it can certainly make you look bad without your permission.

Yeah, but you don't have to eat beans to help support it.  Just because you're butt is embarrassing you doesn't mean you shouldn't do what you can to mitigate circumstances.

[fortunesque]

Okays! Here's a sauntering, sexy-glare Kaidan to get us back on topic (my fault with the analogies {there's anal in that word and we were talking about a fart analogy rofl})







Now if could turn that red a different color, it'd be even better

[Sialater]

fortunesque wrote...

Ecael wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

One thing I noticed about Jacob and Miranda also, whenever the "bad things" that Cerberus has done is brought up they always defer it to some other 'branch' of Cerberus. For example the military branch. Like it's okay they do it as long as it's not the scientific branch that they are in. Forgetting that if another branch it still reflects on them.

Very much.

Crazy analogy:
If you fart, it's not your butt's fault... your butt is part of your body. It's not like you can disown your butt for making you look bad. 

I'm insane. It's official

Well, to keep up with the analogy, it's more as if that branch of Cerberus had irritable bowel syndrome and uncontrollable flatulence. So it's still a part of the whole, but they recognize that they no longer have control over that part of the body. You can't disown your butt, but it can certainly make you look bad without your permission.

But you still say, "Hey, my butt made a mistake. It belongs to me."

The part of the package belongs to the whole when you're an organization. Quite frankly, Cerberus has way too much flatulence to excuse.

You have such a way with words, Fort.

[fortunesque]

Sialater wrote...

fortunesque wrote...



But you still say, "Hey, my butt made a mistake. It belongs to me."

The part of the package belongs to the whole when you're an organization. Quite frankly, Cerberus has way too much flatulence to excuse.

You have such a way with words, Fort.

Why do you think the camera pans over Miranda and Jacob's asses so often?

They're stinking up the galaxy! Don't light a match or we'll all die!

[stephee]

did someone say asses?

[fortunesque]

[Lellandra]

Radahldo wrote...

Jacob's reasons for defecting have always seemed a bit naive to me. It's been long enough since I've actually talked to him that I don't recall all of them any more, but at the time, I thought he was being deliberately ignorant of some of Cerberus' activities.

It's a really vague "red tape" thing.
The biggest thing I came away with was Jacob joined the Alliance for the equipment and opportunity to do "good", with the whole developing a sense of duty and respect for the Alliance being far secondary. He didnt seem to anticipate all the rules. for some reason.
He joined the Corsairs, for a shorter leash; he does not elaborate sufficiently, but somehow found it too constricting.
And then Eden prime happened. I assume with his Alliance friends dying, so did his most immediate attachment to the Alliance, so he resigned.

He's definitely ignoring a lot of what Cerberus, but the Illusive Man claims that in his talks with Jacob he's always been "honest in his lack of trust" so, paradoxically, he does often look Cerberus in the eye.
But the main thing is Jacob has never been forced to do anything distasteful, and thats enough for him for some reason. It just goes back to the beginning with Jacob joining something to be equipped and given an untrammeled opportunity to do "good", with that being all he cares about. I find it very naive and irresponsible.

He also seems to enjoy glory.

Its really the exact of opposite of Kaidan, who does not seek glory, has a strong sense of duty and doesn't feel at all trammeled by the Alliance.
I feel, Kaidans reasons for joining partly concerned wanting to make good of his biotic power, which he saw as an negative an inalienable part of himself he has a duty to make good of. So Kaidans reasons for joining were automatically more thought-out and less of a facile commitment than Jacobs, since it had a lot more to do with his identity.

I agree with all of it up to the naive part.

I believe Jacob is very practical. He wants to do good so he goes to the place he believes he can help the most. He knows he can't change the Allliance redtape so he moves on. Maybe he thinks he can keep an eye on Cerberus, at least on the cell he's in. He's very honest and open with you from the beggining, a contrast from Miranda that's a **** and guarded waiting for you to prove yourself.

Now the end of the romance was completely botched with the prize line. Also the way they had your Shepard talking to him from the start.

My renegade Shep romanced him after Horizon and if I have the brains I'll write about it one day to see if I can make sense of it all.

Kaidan still my favorite of course.  <3