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[sapphyreelf]

Obviously expressing concern for a person and how they handle a situation is whining. Didn't you know that?

[BloodyTemplar]

Isaantia wrote...

And then for the maleSheps who killed Ashley:

Kaidan: no ******
maleShep: right. no ******.

 
 I LOLed.  You win one internets. 

[LN19]

sapphyreelf wrote...

Obviously expressing concern for a person and how they handle a situation is whining. Didn't you know that?

ZOMG, but that would include almost everyother NPC...but I thought they were all perfect and without flaw?

[MICHELLE7]

sberna78 wrote...

Ah...now on the flip side, what do you think the new crew members would think of Kaidan?

Actually at first I think some might resent him for being there. They might see him as deserting Shepard while they stood by her side. 

After the initial reaction though...I think Jack would like him...maybe not for his viewpoints but because the two of them do share a similar background and they both hate Cerberus.

Miranda...I think she'll distrust him...even if she has left Cerberus...it's hard to change your thinking quickly and she's viewed the Alliance as the enemy for a long time.

Jacob...I think he would see Kaidan as weak for staying with the Alliance and putting up with all the red tape. As much as they have in common...I consider Kaidan to be an Alpha male...just the way I see him even though he is sweet...I don't think he automatically gets along with other Alpha human males. His exchange with Maleshep about  Liara kind of hints at that when they make comments over who saw her first.

I don't think Mordin would have an opinion one way or another...he's busy with work. Might be interested in him scientifically though. I would think a functional L2 might be of interest to a scientist as to why this particular person succeeded where others failed. A little bit of a stretch but since we're just guessing.

I could see Grunt viewing him pretty much the same way as Wrex did.

I couldn't imagine how Legion would view him especially if Legion and the Geth are obsessed with Shep...I think they might be curious as to why Shep has an emotional connection with him.

I really don't know Thane well enough to say except that if he truly has remorse for the choices he's made in his life perhaps he might admire Kaidan somewhat for making the choices he did after Jump Zero...and that's a long shot cause I'm not really sure.

Samara...I think she would view him pretty much the same way  she views Shepard...he put his duty before his personal feelings...(stayed with the Alliance despite Shep being with Cerberus).

I don't guess Tali and Garrus would count since they already know him. 

[sapphyreelf]

LN19 wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

Obviously expressing concern for a person and how they handle a situation is whining. Didn't you know that?

ZOMG, but that would include almost everyother NPC...but I thought they were all perfect and without flaw?

No no, it's only whining when a male is doing it, didn't you know?
(Exclusions for obviously superior aliens.)

[MICHELLE7]

Jhosephine wrote...

sberna78 wrote...
*snip* or maybe having him push her out of the way of a hail of gunfire, land on top of her and have another one of those "faces really close/almost kiss" moments that we saw in the first game....of which are almost as sexy as the actual love scenes...

This, a thousand times this. <3

I agree...be a great way for them to begin to discover their feeling for one another all over again.

[syllogi]

LN19 wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

Obviously expressing concern for a person and how they handle a situation is whining. Didn't you know that?

ZOMG, but that would include almost everyother NPC...but I thought they were all perfect and without flaw?

I will risk attack and say that Garrus was definitely whining about Sidonis, from the moment you pick him up, until after his loyalty quest, in ME2.  But because he was a cool alien rogue cop turned vigilante, and he doesn't have Carth's voice, people overlook that. 

Kaidan told his story about Brain Camp to Shepard as a way of illustrating his opinions about the mission.  If he ever spoke up during a mission, it was to share his opinion.  That's NOT whining!!! 

But, I'm preaching to the choir here. 

[MICHELLE7]

LN19 wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

A new thread...Kaidan and Jacob are not hated, they're just viewed as "boring"

Maybe by some, but I'm pretty sure there are people who hate Kaidan, as they stated so in the old version of this thread. 

:lol:Well you've got to give them an A+  for persistence...but isn't it kind of like beating a dead horse. Kinda makes you wonder why they've got to do it over and over and over and over....

That and XX5XX (is that right?) keeps going by the data in which you could vote multiple times...

But wait...when the frak did Kaidan "whine"?

He didn't whine...it's a myth.

And yes it's the same people with the same whacked out poll. 

[Eshaye]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

 His exchange with Maleshep about  Liara kind of hints at that when they make comments over who saw her first.

Oh-oh! No way, I've never played as male Shep don't know if I can bring myself to, but I'd love to hear that line! 

[LN19]

TeenZombie wrote...

LN19 wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

Obviously expressing concern for a person and how they handle a situation is whining. Didn't you know that?

ZOMG, but that would include almost everyother NPC...but I thought they were all perfect and without flaw?

I will risk attack and say that Garrus was definitely whining about Sidonis, from the moment you pick him up, until after his loyalty quest, in ME2.  But because he was a cool alien rogue cop turned vigilante, and he doesn't have Carth's voice, people overlook that. 

Kaidan told his story about Brain Camp to Shepard as a way of illustrating his opinions about the mission.  If he ever spoke up during a mission, it was to share his opinion.  That's NOT whining!!! 

But, I'm preaching to the choir here. 

No one is responding to my question on the said topic...I feel the need to bump it.

I shall risk attack too, Tali goes on about the Geth and her people all the time, Miranda constantly talks about her father and being genetically superior, you pointed out Garrus, Thane is more 'Carth' then Kaidan is (if Kaidan even is at all), Samara talks about her daughters and regrets....but hey, it for some reason it totally acceptable and not by any means "whiney" and/or "complaining", but that's most likely because they aren't being "whiney" and/or "complaining" but the moment Kaidan opens his mouth: "Oh Hai!" *SPASM* he's totally b*tching about something!

[end/rant] yeah...sorry about that

Modifié par LN19, 19 février 2010 - 08:11 .

[sberna78]

Well I suppose if one wanted to be picky, it's possible to state that most every squad member from both ME1 and ME2 are "whiners"...I mean they've all got issues from their past that they eventually open up to Shepard about (and sometimes desire his/her help with)...I don't see where Kaidan gets this rep as being whiney, I mean it just doesn't make sense IMO especially when you consider that there are quite a few other squaddies who have bigger issues that they just love to confess to Shep...

Again I say the whiny thing comes from Kaidan not being your typical chest beating, beer can crushing on forehead, shoot or screw anything that moves typical male video game character...Kaidan is a strong man who is also *gasp* caring and sensitive to the needs of others and has emotions that he's not afraid to confront, deal with and discuss with someone he's close too...I'd love to be able to understand the logic that makes that a bad thing...

I don't know...I understand that different characters are going to appeal to different people for loads of different reasons, and that's all well and good...I just fail to understand the need to trash a character endlessly when you don't like them....if you don't like them, don't use them in your squad, let them die,ignore them etc...whatever...constantly picking/being negative/trashing a character you don't particularly care for, well I think it speaks volumes more about the character of the person who is doing the trashing than it does about the fictional character they're going on about......

[Isaantia]

sberna78 wrote...

I don't know...I understand that different characters are going to appeal to different people for loads of different reasons, and that's all well and good...I just fail to understand the need to trash a character endlessly when you don't like them....if you don't like them, don't use them in your squad, let them die,ignore them etc...whatever...constantly picking/being negative/trashing a character you don't particularly care for, well I think it speaks volumes more about the character of the person who is doing the trashing than it does about the fictional character they're going on about......

So totally agree.

[Sbri]

Jhosephine wrote...

sberna78 wrote...
*snip* or maybe having him push her out of the way of a hail of gunfire, land on top of her and have another one of those "faces really close/almost kiss" moments that we saw in the first game....of which are almost as sexy as the actual love scenes...

This, a thousand times this. <3

Anyone know how to PM the writers with this?

[Jhourney]

Kaidan is written for us girls as a romantic interest. Judging from all 'the hate' from mostly male gamers, I think Bioware did a better job at writing than people give them credit for. They sure pushed my buttons correctly but by doing so they gave him dialogue options that made a lot of men frown, to say the least.
I think Bioware accomplished what they set out to do for us least, they gave us a love interest we actually grew to love. Even when in ME2 there is so little to go on, here we are. So despite all the whining about him whining, somewhere along the way, they got it right

Which in no way means I'm satisfied with his role in ME2, mind you.

Modifié par Jhosephine, 19 février 2010 - 09:04 .

[MICHELLE7]

Eshaye wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

 His exchange with Maleshep about  Liara kind of hints at that when they make comments over who saw her first.

Oh-oh! No way, I've never played as male Shep don't know if I can bring myself to, but I'd love to hear that line! 

I can't remember the exact lines but I think that Shep asks Kaidan about Liara after they rescue her and there is something about Kaidan appreciating the art(not exact words but he was essentially saying he thought Liara was hot at least physically). I f you give the Renegade response Shep says something along the lines of "Well I saw her first" and Kaidan says " Only by a few seconds" and cuts you off.

[MICHELLE7]

sberna78 wrote...

well I think it speaks volumes more about the character of the person who is doing the trashing than it does about the fictional character they're going on about......

Well said.

[Jhourney]

Hmmm, so if ME3 is released in about another 2 years...do you think 2 years will have past ingame again too??



2 years...wow...waiting 4 years to get some closure. *shakes fist at Bioware* okay so keeping this thread alive for 2 years will be a challenge and hopefully time moves by a little faster than it did last time. I need more Kaidan.

[MICHELLE7]

Jhosephine wrote...

Kaidan is written for us girls as a romantic interest. Judging from all 'the hate' from mostly male gamers, I think Bioware did a better job at writing than people give them credit for. They sure pushed my buttons correctly but by doing so they gave him dialogue options that made a lot of men frown, to say the least.
I think Bioware accomplished what they set out to do for us least, they gave us a love interest we actually grew to love. Even when in ME2 there is so little to go on, here we are. So despite all the whining about him whining, somewhere along the way, they got it right

Which in no way means I'm satisfied with his role in ME2, mind you.

It's interesting they got Kaidan so right the first time out and then got Jacob so wrong on their second try. Were they just going for something different or were they perhaps trying in some odd way to keep us from cheating because the reunion they've got planned for with Femshep and Kaidan is so good they don't want us to miss it.( I would like that if that were the case).

I almost think Thane is an experiment. I know nothing about Carth but if Thane's character is so close to Carth it might be that they wanted to know if how the character looked had anything to do with why a person liked them. I mean if Thane and Carth are the same and more women like Carth over Thane then maybe it does have something to do with appearance. A test perhaps for the future as to how they design and create their characters.

And Garrus...I suppose is just an answer to some of the fans although I wonder if once again appearance might have had something to do with it in the sense that they messed his face up or maybe they were once again trying to keep the female players from cheating after the heartbreak at Horizon because they have something awesome planned in the way of a reunion.

I'm not saying all females are shallow but what one says they do and what they actually do are often two different things. I would think if they are tracking things... the choice of LI would be something they'd look at. And by the way...I am shallow...I like good-looking men...I've got to be attracted to the them physically first.  I can be honest about that.

[RyrineaNara]

I think if a character talks about the past you can learn a lot about them. I too agree, that it does speak volumes about the character of the person who is bashing a fictional character.

[Jhourney]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

Kaidan is written for us girls as a romantic interest. Judging from all 'the hate' from mostly male gamers, I think Bioware did a better job at writing than people give them credit for. They sure pushed my buttons correctly but by doing so they gave him dialogue options that made a lot of men frown, to say the least.
I think Bioware accomplished what they set out to do for us least, they gave us a love interest we actually grew to love. Even when in ME2 there is so little to go on, here we are. So despite all the whining about him whining, somewhere along the way, they got it right

Which in no way means I'm satisfied with his role in ME2, mind you.

It's interesting they got Kaidan so right the first time out and then got Jacob so wrong on their second try. Were they just going for something different or were they perhaps trying in some odd way to keep us from cheating because the reunion they've got planned for with Femshep and Kaidan is so good they don't want us to miss it.( I would like that if that were the case).

I almost think Thane is an experiment. I know nothing about Carth but if Thane's character is so close to Carth it might be that they wanted to know if how the character looked had anything to do with why a person liked them. I mean if Thane and Carth are the same and more women like Carth over Thane then maybe it does have something to do with appearance. A test perhaps for the future as to how they design and create their characters.

And Garrus...I suppose is just an answer to some of the fans although I wonder if once again appearance might have had something to do with it in the sense that they messed his face up or maybe they were once again trying to keep the female players from cheating after the heartbreak at Horizon because they have something awesome planned in the way of a reunion.

I'm not saying all females are shallow but what one says they do and what they actually do are often two different things. I would think if they are tracking things... the choice of LI would be something they'd look at. And by the way...I am shallow...I like good-looking men...I've got to be attracted to the them physically first.  I can be honest about that.

If you put it like that, it almost seems as if they were trying to get a feel for what women truly like. Despite us loving Kaidan, I don't think Bioware really knew of that love. Can't really recall threads like these at least after the release of ME1. But I think they could all be experiments.

Jacob seemed to fit in the same box they used for Kaidan, but he's everything Kaidan is not. As if they wanted to see if people would prefer a more 'agressive' military man. Some of his qualities are actually what people say Kaidan is lacking and yet when they put two and two together, it completely backfired.

Thane does indeed seem to borrow from Carth, another LI that was unappreciated by a lot. Another second chance as it were to see if they could do better. They took away the 'whiney' bit and made it more subtle, mysterious and added an alien flavour. I've said it before, Thane feels incomplete which is odd for a character specifically designed to be attractive to women.

Garrus and his scars did indeed make me wonder if that was a test to see if women would still go for him.

Could it be Bioware will work with data they get from the game? Seeing how many stayed loyal or romanced a specific character a lot? Will it have an effect on the role Kaidan will play in ME3 as the original LI? I have no idea but it's an interesting thought indeed.

[Jhourney]

I'm going to pass out, but before I do that...just wanted to say, excellent fanfic yet again Michelle. Loved the angle!

[RyrineaNara]

Everything, about the ME2 Female Shepherds Love INTERESTS were off. Hell no girl likes to be called a prize which turned me off big time from Jacob. Thane just didn't intreat me as much as Kaidan did. I see Garrus as a bother, and not a lover to my Shepherd. The only mildly intreating, Female Shepherd love interest was Kaidan in my own opinion.

[MICHELLE7]

Jhosephine wrote...

If you put it like that, it almost seems as if they were trying to get a feel for what women truly like. Despite us loving Kaidan, I don't think Bioware really knew of that love. Can't really recall threads like these at least after the release of ME1. But I think they could all be experiments.

Jacob seemed to fit in the same box they used for Kaidan, but he's everything Kaidan is not. As if they wanted to see if people would prefer a more 'agressive' military man. Some of his qualities are actually what people say Kaidan is lacking and yet when they put two and two together, it completely backfired.

Thane does indeed seem to borrow from Carth, another LI that was unappreciated by a lot. Another second chance as it were to see if they could do better. They took away the 'whiney' bit and made it more subtle, mysterious and added an alien flavour. I've said it before, Thane feels incomplete which is odd for a character specifically designed to be attractive to women.

Garrus and his scars did indeed make me wonder if that was a test to see if women would still go for him.

Could it be Bioware will work with data they get from the game? Seeing how many stayed loyal or romanced a specific character a lot? Will it have an effect on the role Kaidan will play in ME3 as the original LI? I have no idea but it's an interesting thought indeed.

I don't know that it would affect ME3 if they are already working on it...Hopefully they've already got a plan. However I'm wondering if they may not be thinking long term when adding romantic characters to their games for women. I don't think they really tested the men on the same issue if indeed that is what they are doing. Then again I could be wrong about that.

[syllogi]

Jhosephine wrote...

Hmmm, so if ME3 is released in about another 2 years...do you think 2 years will have past ingame again too??

2 years...wow...waiting 4 years to get some closure. *shakes fist at Bioware* okay so keeping this thread alive for 2 years will be a challenge and hopefully time moves by a little faster than it did last time. I need more Kaidan.

Ack, making Shepard and Kaidan stay apart for two years after Horizon would be awful.  It would mean the characters were both acting even denser than they did on Horizon, for two more years.  I'm sure they could come up with a reason as to why they wouldn't stay in contact for two more years, but it would have to be a REALLY good reason...and not dead Shepard again.

And as for how the female love interests were written in ME2, I definitely think that Jacob was written more as a buddy for maleShep, and the romance was tacked on for female characters, because there were no human male love interests in this game.  It's the only way I could explain how they wrote it.

Thane's character seemed more thoughtfully designed...and then we found out that they cribbed Carth's backstory for him, and he's DYING to boot, and I'm scratching my head again.  I know that tragic love stories can be really good, but if I had been a Thane fan before the game came out, I would be extremely anxious now, wondering how they'll handle him in the next game.  (And if two years in game time pass by, Thane will be dead!  )  Plus, he's talking about his dead wife, and one of my dialogue options is "I want you"...who actually does that???

Garrus's romance is weird to me.  He was a completely platonic friend, and all of a sudden my character had the option to proposition sex with him.  That was not very romantic.  His love scene was way better, and I'm glad that those who had always wanted a Garrus romance got it, but the way it was handled seems ham-handed, like they didn't know how to work it in.

So yeah, I think the writers wanted to do something different for these three than they did with Kaidan, but in the end the Kaidan romance was just way better and more thoughtfully executed, in my own humble opinion.

[MICHELLE7]

Jhosephine wrote...

I'm going to pass out, but before I do that...just wanted to say, excellent fanfic yet again Michelle. Loved the angle!

Thanks...it was my last one for a while...I'm doing some painting and I'm hoping to have time to play ME again just to get my self re-familiarized with Kaidan's character again. Hoping that will spark some ideas for some fics for the future.