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[Livia]

Star58 wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

Star58 wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

@ teen: i think you're TOTALLY on for that. the girl gamers do get overlooked, which is a total bummer.

in spite of that, i actually have high hopes for DA2. i personally think the origins thing, while a cool idea, actually derailed the narrative arc. i can get really soapboxy about why, but i do. i think having the PC be well-defined like Shepard is makes for a better narrative from a story point of view. this is my humble opinion. so i am hoping this will be the case with hawke. but again, i'm the pollyanna, i know.

Hey Sage - just so you know, you're not alone in regards to feeling that having a well-defined PC makes for a stronger story-arc!  

phew! glad to know i'm not alone. yeah. my opinion (and i know not everyone will agree) is that:

my take was by storytelling:

1. intro: ME wins. starting in media res and placing backstory quests LATER. allows for the intro to jump you right into the main "hook" action (eden prime vs. ostagaar). also give you something to look forward too. also less nostalgia when things go wrong

2. special forces: ME wins. you're already alliance. you already signed on for the tough stuff. so when things go bad and you have to be the spectre that steps up, it makes sense you would. becoming a grey warden felt forced to me, like i was being trapped in it. (ser jory?) that made me sad. 

3. world worth saving: ME wins. ferelden was corrupt from top to bottom. it made me so sad. the ME universe is OUR world, so of course i wanted to save it.

4. possibility of a happy ending: eh... verdict out, i think

5. compelling main char: ME wins. it was like DAO was not about the PC. alistair or morrigan was the man char, not mine. i swear, it felt over and over like the only reason i was there was to get lied to, beat on, and then, eventually, asked to make a sacrifice. it's a compelling story, but it ended so sadly for my PC.

anyhow... i really like a well-defined PC role. revan and shepard rule. even the student from jade empire. i think a lot of it is giving just enough definition to the role for the gamer to jump in a role play it, but then leave open some possibilites for how to do it. is like improv - need some boundaries at the outset, then off you go.

my take, anyhow 

Well said, Sage!

Like you, I'm more drawn to jumping into the story immediately.  And while I don't object to tough choices -- it's one of the things that I like about BW's games  oddly enough -- a number of the choices in DA felt awkward. The origin stories were ok but they felt a little gimmicky to me.  I didn't like Ser Jory's end and I didn't like being compelled to be part of a sekrit organization without full disclosure.  I was also surprised at being the leader of the pack given that the Warden -- particularly if one plays anything but HN ends up as the 2nd banana.  We all have our roles in life but-- as much as I like DA:O and Alistair -- I felt that it would have made more sense for him to have slowly begun to transition to at least share the leadership and decisions more fully with my Warden.

Yeah, this is another reason why I'm going to be getting Guild Wars 2 instead of DA2 - from interviews I've read this game will play as more of a RPG than even DAO did. You get to chose everything about your character and you aren't forced into going one direction or another. As much as I love ME, I felt like that with ME2 as well - I hated the fact that my character had to work with Cerberus at all. Yeah I get it was essential to the storyline and blah blah blah, but still - my FemShep was played as faithful to the Alliance who saved her life on Mindoir. It just felt really OOC for her to even reluctantly work with Cerberus. I get what you mean about DAO though, how it seemed like your Warden was second wheel to other characters. I'm wondering how they'll address the fact of all you chose to do in DAO for DA2 but that's for another thread. xD

Modifié par Livia, 09 juillet 2010 - 10:45 .

[AkodoRyu]

siriusrambles wrote...

Marge likes

[kraidy1117]

siriusrambles wrote...

That's a nice TIM suit hack, and Kaidan looks very formal in that outfit. Great outfit for intimate time with Shepard or a date.

[Jean]

About DAO's main characters and story belonging to Alistair and Morrigan, that's exactly how I felt the whole time and after. Even if Alistair left and got drunk or executed, it was still his story. It just ended... badly.

My Warden never felt special to me.

[Star]

Livia wrote...

I get what you mean about DAO though, how it seemed like your Warden was second wheel to other characters. I'm wondering how they'll address the fact of all you chose to do in DAO for DA2 but that's for another thread. xD

Or they won't address the facts at all....  Awakenings acknowledged your romance but then pretty much had the Warden wandering off into the unknown at the end.

I'm at least grateful that with ME, Bioware has indicated their commitment to a trilogy that uses your character all the way through.  They did the same thing with Baldur's Gate and it's expansions, especially Throne of Bhaal.  I get attached to my characters and it always feels like a let down to have to start over again.  I haven't played Guild Wars but it's one of the things that I do like about MMOs -- continuing to use one's character and choosing one storyline.

[Jean]

Star58 wrote...

Livia wrote...

I get what you mean about DAO though, how it seemed like your Warden was second wheel to other characters. I'm wondering how they'll address the fact of all you chose to do in DAO for DA2 but that's for another thread. xD

Or they won't address the facts at all....  Awakenings acknowledged your romance but then pretty much had the Warden wandering off into the unknown at the end.

I'm at least grateful that with ME, Bioware has indicated their commitment to a trilogy that uses your character all the way through.  They did the same thing with Baldur's Gate and it's expansions, especially Throne of Bhaal.  I get attached to my characters and it always feels like a let down to have to start over again.  I haven't played Guild Wars but it's one of the things that I do like about MMOs -- continuing to use one's character and choosing one storyline.

I'm never going to understand why Alistair or even Dog weren't there with you.

[sagefic]

Livia wrote...

Star58 wrote...

*snip*

Well said, Sage!

Like you, I'm more drawn to jumping into the story immediately.  And while I don't object to tough choices -- it's one of the things that I like about BW's games  oddly enough -- a number of the choices in DA felt awkward. The origin stories were ok but they felt a little gimmicky to me.  I didn't like Ser Jory's end and I didn't like being compelled to be part of a sekrit organization without full disclosure.  I was also surprised at being the leader of the pack given that the Warden -- particularly if one plays anything but HN ends up as the 2nd banana.  We all have our roles in life but-- as much as I like DA:O and Alistair -- I felt that it would have made more sense for him to have slowly begun to transition to at least share the leadership and decisions more fully with my Warden.

Yeah, this is another reason why I'm going to be getting Guild Wars 2 instead of DA2 - from interviews I've read this game will play as more of a RPG than even DAO did. You get to chose everything about your character and you aren't forced into going one direction or another. As much as I love ME, I felt like that with ME2 as well - I hated the fact that my character had to work with Cerberus at all. Yeah I get it was essential to the storyline and blah blah blah, but still - my FemShep was played as faithful to the Alliance who saved her life on Mindoir. It just felt really OOC for her to even reluctantly work with Cerberus. I get what you mean about DAO though, how it seemed like your Warden was second wheel to other characters. I'm wondering how they'll address the fact of all you chose to do in DAO for DA2 but that's for another thread. xD

yeah. GW2. the hubby can play that with me, so that will also be a draw.  glad to know i wasn't alone in that.

comparing DA to ME is really apples to oranges, i know. but on the places where they *can* compare: backstory, PC set up, "tough" decisions, narrative arc over 3 games, alignment system, dialog trees, etc. i preferred ME in almost every case. the only thing i wanted was MORE PARTY BANTER!

but i'm a dialog nut. the chars could talk all day long and it would not be too much for me. 



awwww.... marge is so cute!

i know this is kaidan's thread and all, but i do love seeing the femsheps that hang out here. 
(speaking of which, i uploaded my screenies to the face codes thread, in case you wanna see)

[Livia]

Batteries wrote...

Star58 wrote...

Livia wrote...

I get what you mean about DAO though, how it seemed like your Warden was second wheel to other characters. I'm wondering how they'll address the fact of all you chose to do in DAO for DA2 but that's for another thread. xD

Or they won't address the facts at all....  Awakenings acknowledged your romance but then pretty much had the Warden wandering off into the unknown at the end.

I'm at least grateful that with ME, Bioware has indicated their commitment to a trilogy that uses your character all the way through.  They did the same thing with Baldur's Gate and it's expansions, especially Throne of Bhaal.  I get attached to my characters and it always feels like a let down to have to start over again.  I haven't played Guild Wars but it's one of the things that I do like about MMOs -- continuing to use one's character and choosing one storyline.

I'm never going to understand why Alistair or even Dog weren't there with you.

Omg, I know! I hated Awakenings for how it treated the romances, but most of all I hated the ending. It was just so abrupt and anticlimatic. I could see EA's greedy influence on it way more than Bioware's though, which could be a big factor for why it sucked so bad. Haha, I'm not a big fan of EA and if it wasn't for Bioware I wouldn't buy anything they are part of.

sagequeen wrote...

yeah. GW2. the hubby can play that with me, so that will also be a draw.  glad to know i wasn't alone in that.

comparing DA to ME is really apples to oranges, i know. but on the places where they *can* compare: backstory, PC set up, "tough" decisions, narrative arc over 3 games, alignment system, dialog trees, etc. i preferred ME in almost every case. the only thing i wanted was MORE PARTY BANTER!
but i'm a dialog nut. the chars could talk all day long and it would not be too much for me. 

Glad I won't be the only one playing GW2 here either! =) I love the first game, I still play it occassionally even though I've beaten all three of the expansion campaigns. But back on topic, lol.

I prefer ME to DAO as well, as far as everything you listed goes. ME2 was just more disappointing in the way it seemed like we had less control over what our characters did, like my previous rant about the Cerberus thing. I'm fine with it now though knowing that they kept the ME1 love interests out in order to make sure they survived for the 3rd game, so as long as they let us continue our romances with them I won't have to go bomb their headquarters. xD

Modifié par Livia, 09 juillet 2010 - 11:04 .

[Jade5233]

Batteries wrote...

Star58 wrote...

Livia wrote...

I get what you mean about DAO though, how it seemed like your Warden was second wheel to other characters. I'm wondering how they'll address the fact of all you chose to do in DAO for DA2 but that's for another thread. xD

Or they won't address the facts at all....  Awakenings acknowledged your romance but then pretty much had the Warden wandering off into the unknown at the end.

I'm at least grateful that with ME, Bioware has indicated their commitment to a trilogy that uses your character all the way through.  They did the same thing with Baldur's Gate and it's expansions, especially Throne of Bhaal.  I get attached to my characters and it always feels like a let down to have to start over again.  I haven't played Guild Wars but it's one of the things that I do like about MMOs -- continuing to use one's character and choosing one storyline.

I'm never going to understand why Alistair or even Dog weren't there with you.

Actually in my elf mage's epilogue, Alistair leaves his wife to wander Ferelden with his true love. 
My Queen wanders alone
And my elf rogue ends up co-ruling the Antivan Crows with Zev

[Star]

Batteries wrote...

Star58 wrote...

Livia wrote...

I get what you mean about DAO though, how it seemed like your Warden was second wheel to other characters. I'm wondering how they'll address the fact of all you chose to do in DAO for DA2 but that's for another thread. xD

Or they won't address the facts at all....  Awakenings acknowledged your romance but then pretty much had the Warden wandering off into the unknown at the end.

I'm at least grateful that with ME, Bioware has indicated their commitment to a trilogy that uses your character all the way through.  They did the same thing with Baldur's Gate and it's expansions, especially Throne of Bhaal.  I get attached to my characters and it always feels like a let down to have to start over again.  I haven't played Guild Wars but it's one of the things that I do like about MMOs -- continuing to use one's character and choosing one storyline.

I'm never going to understand why Alistair or even Dog weren't there with you.

Yeah -- Dog who supposedly only bonded with one person -- that really didn't make sense!!

[Star]

Jade5233 wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Star58 wrote...

Livia wrote...

I get what you mean about DAO though, how it seemed like your Warden was second wheel to other characters. I'm wondering how they'll address the fact of all you chose to do in DAO for DA2 but that's for another thread. xD

Or they won't address the facts at all....  Awakenings acknowledged your romance but then pretty much had the Warden wandering off into the unknown at the end.

I'm at least grateful that with ME, Bioware has indicated their commitment to a trilogy that uses your character all the way through.  They did the same thing with Baldur's Gate and it's expansions, especially Throne of Bhaal.  I get attached to my characters and it always feels like a let down to have to start over again.  I haven't played Guild Wars but it's one of the things that I do like about MMOs -- continuing to use one's character and choosing one storyline.

I'm never going to understand why Alistair or even Dog weren't there with you.

Actually in my elf mage's epilogue, Alistair leaves his wife to wander Ferelden with his true love. 
My Queen wanders alone
And my elf rogue ends up co-ruling the Antivan Crows with Zev

Yeah -- at the end of Awakenings with my HNF Warden (who was not queen and Alistair not king) she got a similar ending of going off with Alistair. But one is still wandering off to an unknown end. 

[Jean]

My ending would of kept us both as Wardens... Wandering around and mysteriously disappearing. Ohhhh. Fun fun fun.

[Star]

Batteries wrote...

My ending would of kept us both as Wardens... Wandering around and mysteriously disappearing. Ohhhh. Fun fun fun.

Actually that's the ending I chose...which meant that it really didn't make sense not to have both Dog and Alistair!

[J4N3_M3]

goofygoff wrote...

shotgun-shepard wrote...

Hey! Evening all.

I just found JenShep's post-Horizon anthem- Self Machine by I Blame Coco www.youtube.com/watch

Speaking of post-Horizon anthems...it's very rare that I associate a song with characters, but I was listening to one of my favorite albums yesterday and this one hit me liek woah!


New Order - Bizarre Love Triangle

Every time I think of you
I feel shot right through with a bolt of blue
It's no problem of mine
But it's a problem I find
Living a life that I can't leave behind

But there's no sense in telling me
The wisdom of the fool won't set you free
But that's the way that it goes
And it's what nobody knows
Well every day my confusion grows

Every time I see you falling
I get down on my knees and pray
I'm waiting for that final moment
You say the words that I can't say

I feel fine and I feel good
I'm feeling like I never should
Whenever I get this way
I just don't know what to say
Why can't we be ourselves like we were yesterday

I'm not sure what this could mean
I don't think you're what you seem
I do admit to myself if I hurt someone else
Then I'll never see just what we're meant to be

www.youtube.com/watch

I think, a few hundreds of pages ago I posted that song as well.... ^.^ just the Apop cover version since I love that one so much. Am a big NO fan though. :happy:

It's a great song and it is SUPER fitting! 

@Ako: I would love to hear your opinion about the Garrus romance in ME2 as well.

Maybe it's just me, but I actually like the fact that we often go OT here and always find our way back.

[Shenzi]

Jade5233 wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Star58 wrote...

Livia wrote...

I get what you mean about DAO though, how it seemed like your Warden was second wheel to other characters. I'm wondering how they'll address the fact of all you chose to do in DAO for DA2 but that's for another thread. xD

Or they won't address the facts at all....  Awakenings acknowledged your romance but then pretty much had the Warden wandering off into the unknown at the end.

I'm at least grateful that with ME, Bioware has indicated their commitment to a trilogy that uses your character all the way through.  They did the same thing with Baldur's Gate and it's expansions, especially Throne of Bhaal.  I get attached to my characters and it always feels like a let down to have to start over again.  I haven't played Guild Wars but it's one of the things that I do like about MMOs -- continuing to use one's character and choosing one storyline.

I'm never going to understand why Alistair or even Dog weren't there with you.

Actually in my elf mage's epilogue, Alistair leaves his wife to wander Ferelden with his true love. 
My Queen wanders alone
And my elf rogue ends up co-ruling the Antivan Crows with Zev

First time I played DAO I hadn't read any spoilers and my mage got her heartbroken.

[Nightodie]

Okay everyone Night Is Falling...

Same Kaidan Channel Tonight...see you then.

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Yeah I am needed in bed!!



Night!!

[J4N3_M3]

good night, night, sweet kaidan dreams

I think, I'll go to bed as well. I feel ignored in the whole forum *sniffs*

[sagefic]

 I think DA:O just really didn't fit my expectations. Loosing Kaidan/Ash to Virmire *fit* the ME universe. Cerberus in ME2, it *fit* Kyrie, which is why I continued to play her. She has a hard edge and puts colonies first, so I could buy she'd join. My spacer sole survivor just wouldn't, so i didn't get to far with her.

but da:o just had some stuff that i really felt was totally non sequiter. werewolves? demon babies? it seemed to come out of nowhere imo. but maybe i'm the only one who felt that way.

back on the shenko subject, i'm off for the weekend, but i leave a gift of fanfic: Chapter 24 is up for Valhalla. garrus time! and some lonely kaidan 

have a lovely weekend all!

[sagefic]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

good night, night, sweet kaidan dreams
I think, I'll go to bed as well. I feel ignored in the whole forum *sniffs*

i didn't know you were here j4n3! hi! and gnight and sweet dreams! 

[Star]

sagequeen wrote...

 I think DA:O just really didn't fit my expectations. Loosing Kaidan/Ash to Virmire *fit* the ME universe. Cerberus in ME2, it *fit* Kyrie, which is why I continued to play her. She has a hard edge and puts colonies first, so I could buy she'd join. My spacer sole survivor just wouldn't, so i didn't get to far with her.

but da:o just had some stuff that i really felt was totally non sequiter. werewolves? demon babies? it seemed to come out of nowhere imo. but maybe i'm the only one who felt that way.

back on the shenko subject, i'm off for the weekend, but i leave a gift of fanfic: Chapter 24 is up for Valhalla. garrus time! and some lonely kaidan 

have a lovely weekend all!

Have a great weekend Sage!

Werewolves, demon children, (and in Awakenings the Baroness demon lobster monster)..... actually it's a lot like
Baldur's Gate.  

[sagefic]

@ star: thanks. i will. i am now looking at your avatar and realizing your shep and mine could be sisters. o.O

[Star]

sagequeen wrote...

@ star: thanks. i will. i am now looking at your avatar and realizing your shep and mine could be sisters. o.O

@ Sage -- they do look rather similar!  And our screen names both start with "S"... hmmm....

[Jade5233]

*waves* g'nite to the ladies off to beddiebye

[Shenzi]

sagequeen wrote...

 I think DA:O just really didn't fit my expectations. Loosing Kaidan/Ash to Virmire *fit* the ME universe. Cerberus in ME2, it *fit* Kyrie, which is why I continued to play her. She has a hard edge and puts colonies first, so I could buy she'd join. My spacer sole survivor just wouldn't, so i didn't get to far with her.

but da:o just had some stuff that i really felt was totally non sequiter. werewolves? demon babies? it seemed to come out of nowhere imo. but maybe i'm the only one who felt that way.

back on the shenko subject, i'm off for the weekend, but i leave a gift of fanfic: Chapter 24 is up for Valhalla. garrus time! and some lonely kaidan 

have a lovely weekend all!

Read and reviewed. 

What a perfect setup for the disaster known as Horizon.

[sagefic]

Shenzi wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

 I think DA:O just really didn't fit my expectations. Loosing Kaidan/Ash to Virmire *fit* the ME universe. Cerberus in ME2, it *fit* Kyrie, which is why I continued to play her. She has a hard edge and puts colonies first, so I could buy she'd join. My spacer sole survivor just wouldn't, so i didn't get to far with her.

but da:o just had some stuff that i really felt was totally non sequiter. werewolves? demon babies? it seemed to come out of nowhere imo. but maybe i'm the only one who felt that way.

back on the shenko subject, i'm off for the weekend, but i leave a gift of fanfic: Chapter 24 is up for Valhalla. garrus time! and some lonely kaidan 

have a lovely weekend all!

Read and reviewed. 

What a perfect setup for the disaster known as Horizon.

thanks shenzi. and just as i go to leave for the weekend, i now see it's Horizon (singular) and all this time i was writing Horizons (plural). 



ugh.... i swear i double checked that. i did. only apparently not with the right authority. will correct when i get back.