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[jillyfae]

@Sia: Whedon does that to me too! Not that there's anything wrong w/watching too much Buffy. Or Firefly.



And in my first playthrough of Horizon, every one of the horrible things Kaidan said was after Shepard said something that would've completely cut his emotions to ribbons by ignoring their relationship and his concerns. *shrugs* I've seen other dialogue since, and as I said, I can rationally understand why people should be upset with him, but the scene fails to work for me. If that makes more sense? *shrugs* I'm not even that mad at Shepard, tbh, after the original wanting to smack her for bad dialogue. The whole thing fails to engage my emotions because neither of them have reasonable reactions/dialogue to anything.

[sesheta255]

I have to agree with Fort, Jilly, & Teen here about Horizon. Hell I was calling my Shep a traitor from the first time she spoke to TIM and just accepted his word that the Alliance weren't doing anything. It's understandable that Kaidan's first thought is that Shep's been with Cerberus for 2 years and didn't even bother to get in contact with him. He obviously went through a lot of pain & guilt thinking she was dead.



I thought his email was pretty typical of his character. He apologises, hopes she's being careful, and leaves the door open for her. I can understand his caution, he doesn't take relationships casually (which makes me worry about the Citadel doctor, lol), he doesn't want to leave himself open again after what he's been through. His email gave me a lot of hope actually.

[Sialater]

Yeah, but if you renegade him (which Meg does), he still yells at you. "Our reunion will have to wait, Cerberus (hint) is [watching me] (hint)."

[jillyfae]

Well, thanks to Loved, I finally get what that scene was doing. (You write better than BioWare, Sia! Congratulations?) But the first time, I was mostly just confused. "What? Why'd I do that? Why didn't it let us talk? Stupid game." *mentally smacks Shepard for lousy dialogue even though it wasn't her fault* urgh.

eta:  And I hate that email.  Ashley's is so much better.  Kaidan's makes sense to me, if I think about it, but seemed really lacking the first time I read it.  I shouldn't have to figure out a heartfelt apology, but I did.  And it was annoying.

Modifié par jillyfae, 11 juillet 2010 - 02:27 .

[Joisan]

jillyfae wrote...
The whole thing fails to engage my emotions because neither of them have reasonable reactions/dialogue to anything.

This.  This.  100x this.

Horizon for me after I got over the initial OMG it's Kaidan was just a big fat pile of

[Joisan]

jillyfae wrote...

Well, thanks to Loved, I finally get what that scene was doing. (You write better than BioWare, Sia! Congratulations?) But the first time, I was mostly just confused. "What? Why'd I do that? Why didn't it let us talk? Stupid game." *mentally smacks Shepard for lousy dialogue even though it wasn't her fault* urgh.

eta:  And I hate that email.  Ashley's is so much better.  Kaidan's makes sense to me, if I think about it, but seemed really lacking the first time I read it.  I shouldn't have to figure out a heartfelt apology, but I did.  And it was annoying.

QFT re: Sia's Loved making me feel Horizon the way Horizon itself does not.

And I agree, Ashley's e-mail is just so... her.  I suppose you could say Kaidan's is too but it just isn't as sweet as dear Ash's.

[fortunesque]

Honestly, the point of Horizon was to create a ridiculous argument that was OOC for both characters to give them some kind of reason for them to not follow Shepard.

[Sialater]

hehe, Thanks, Jilly!



The only explanation for the lameness of Shep's dialogue is this: TIM TELLS YOU Kaidan's there. He hints that (and later on tells you outright) that Kaidan's a lure for you. He's THE ONLY member of your old team vulnerable. Tali's with the Flotilla, Garrus is with you, Wrex is the bloody King of Tuchanka and Liara's in the middle of a web of intrigue fifteen layers thick on Illium.



Kaidan/Ash are out in the middle of nowhere with no back up and ass deep in alligators. In the immortal words of Mal Reynolds and Admiral Ackbar: IT'S A TRAP!



The only thing Shep can do is to pretend to not care anymore. And instead of reading between the lines and adding 2+2, K & A blow up.

[Joisan]

fortunesque wrote...

Honestly, the point of Horizon was to create a ridiculous argument that was OOC for both characters to give them some kind of reason for them to not follow Shepard.

Sad but true.  Which is why there will be tar, and feathers, and multicolored sequins if we went through that b.s. just for another crappy cameo

Oh, and Sesh... thanks for that video.  How the hell could I have missed Sbarge's voice in that game?  Now that I'm listening, I hear it all over the place!

[jillyfae]

Hi Joi!

eta @ Sia:  You're welcome.  And yes, that's the only possible rational explanation, but the only theory I got after playing Horizon was 'why is BioWare writing such crap?'  That was actually pretty much my reaction to the entire game the first time.  Then I started reading reactions online, and got sucked into KAST, and suddenly realized there was more going on then I got out of it the first time, but that initial emotional connection that I had to all their other games I've played just isn't there for me.  *shrugs*

Modifié par jillyfae, 11 juillet 2010 - 02:38 .

[Joisan]

jillyfae wrote...

Hi Joi!

eta @ Sia:  You're welcome.  And yes, that's the only possible rational explanation, but the only theory I got after playing Horizon was 'why is BioWare writing such crap?'  That was actually pretty much my reaction to the entire game the first time.  Then I started reading reactions online, and got sucked into KAST, and suddenly realized there was more going on then I got out of it the first time, but that initial emotional connection that I had to all their other games I've played just isn't there for me.  *shrugs*

I liked the beginning, sad though it was.  And like I said, my first time through ME2 I was enjoying the Kaidan reunion on Horizon until Mia had to open her big mouth.  The music, Kaidan's introduction as he steps out from behind the crates, the hug... then the whole thing went to hell thanks to some horribly inadequate dialogue options.

[Sialater]

jillyfae wrote...

Hi Joi!

eta @ Sia:  You're welcome.  And yes, that's the only possible rational explanation, but the only theory I got after playing Horizon was 'why is BioWare writing such crap?'  That was actually pretty much my reaction to the entire game the first time.  Then I started reading reactions online, and got sucked into KAST, and suddenly realized there was more going on then I got out of it the first time, but that initial emotional connection that I had to all their other games I've played just isn't there for me.  *shrugs*

ME2 seems to have more layers to it than ME1.  At least in the conspiracy possibilities. 

[sesheta255]

@Jo - Yeah Republic commando was another game the youngest teen got me playing after telling me Carth was in it, lol, cause I don't usually play shooters.



re the email - I was actually surprised that Miranda or Kelly or whoever let it through to Shep in the first place and if I'm going to go all conspiracy theorist here I could say that it might have been altered by one of them

[RPGmom28]

fortunesque wrote...

Honestly, the point of Horizon was to create a ridiculous argument that was OOC for both characters to give them some kind of reason for them to not follow Shepard.

I think you have completely wrapped up in this sentence the reason that Horizon always made me so angry.  Oh, we can't fit in Ash/Kaidan because we want there to be room for Miranda/Jacob/Thane.  So let's make up some silly pissy fussbudget-ism that gets them out of the picture.  My thought after my first Horizon encounter with Kaidan was, "Really?  That's all you're giving us?"  Shepard showing no emotion when seeing him again, just hi, how are yas.  After the passion that Kaidan and Shepard have in ME1, do me no favors.

[jillyfae]

Sialater wrote...

jillyfae wrote...

Hi Joi!

eta @ Sia:  You're welcome.  And yes, that's the only possible rational explanation, but the only theory I got after playing Horizon was 'why is BioWare writing such crap?'  That was actually pretty much my reaction to the entire game the first time.  Then I started reading reactions online, and got sucked into KAST, and suddenly realized there was more going on then I got out of it the first time, but that initial emotional connection that I had to all their other games I've played just isn't there for me.  *shrugs*

ME2 seems to have more layers to it than ME1.  At least in the conspiracy possibilities. 

It does have all sorts of wonderful twisty possibilities, and I feel rather dumb I completely missed them all. 

[fortunesque]

RPGmom28 wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Honestly, the point of Horizon was to create a ridiculous argument that was OOC for both characters to give them some kind of reason for them to not follow Shepard.

I think you have completely wrapped up in this sentence the reason that Horizon always made me so angry.  Oh, we can't fit in Ash/Kaidan because we want there to be room for Miranda/Jacob/Thane.  So let's make up some silly pissy fussbudget-ism that gets them out of the picture.  My thought after my first Horizon encounter with Kaidan was, "Really?  That's all you're giving us?"  Shepard showing no emotion when seeing him again, just hi, how are yas.  After the passion that Kaidan and Shepard have in ME1, do me no favors.

Yes.

I think there are many other ways that the VS could have been written out of ME2 without resorting to an OOC argument.

[jillyfae]

@Fort YES! The idea behind ME2's story in general, and Horizon in particular, is spectacular. The execution completely fails to work for me though.

[Sialater]

jillyfae wrote...

Sialater wrote...

jillyfae wrote...

Hi Joi!

eta @ Sia:  You're welcome.  And yes, that's the only possible rational explanation, but the only theory I got after playing Horizon was 'why is BioWare writing such crap?'  That was actually pretty much my reaction to the entire game the first time.  Then I started reading reactions online, and got sucked into KAST, and suddenly realized there was more going on then I got out of it the first time, but that initial emotional connection that I had to all their other games I've played just isn't there for me.  *shrugs*

ME2 seems to have more layers to it than ME1.  At least in the conspiracy possibilities. 

It does have all sorts of wonderful twisty possibilities, and I feel rather dumb I completely missed them all. 

I keep finding more of them.  And I had to restart my insanity run so I'll get to see more.

[Nightodie]

Good Evening all!!!



I couldn't sleep, and I see we are on Horizon again.



Yeah, I need to go to work tonight on very little sleep.... I am not going there, My fic is too close to there and my muse likes to change things and Horizon is already written so... yeah, so not going ...



@ Phoenix, can I recommend that you stop playing KotOR and play ME or ME2 please... cause ... I am *twitches*... going on ... very...*giggles*... little sleep...*checks Collector Partical Beam*... and you know... *twitches* .... accidents...they happen.....



Have a safe one please everyone!!!!

[Kassy B]

Ah yes, "Horizon". I was sooo looking forward to seeing Kaidan in ME2 that I was so disappointed with his little cameo appearance. I literally felt sick to my stomach after that scene.

[FireEye]

fortunesque wrote...

Honestly, the point of Horizon was to
create a ridiculous argument that was OOC for both characters to give
them some kind of reason for them to not follow Shepard.

Agreed.  Doesn't Kaidan say something like "I would have followed you anywhere" if you aren't romancing him, too?  Which would imply that if you'd wanted to ditch to Cerberus, you could have taken him with you - and that's what he's pissed about, instead of the whole traitor thing.

sesheta255 wrote...
re the email - I was actually surprised that Miranda or Kelly or whoever let it through to Shep in the first place and if I'm going to go all conspiracy theorist here I could say that it might have been altered by one of them

My (paranoid in general, paranoid about being spied on, technophobe, Sole Survivor) Shepard's reaction to the email still cracks me up.

"So not only did you send it through an Alliance address, which are monitored and censored by the way, you sent it to a Cerberus address, which is filtered through their intelligence network.  Which means that not only did my effort to push you away and keep you safe not work, now everybody in the Alliance and Cerberus knows about Ilos.

...and you wonder why I didn't write you back.  <_<"

Although, at the time she received it, it was something like: . . .

Modifié par FireEye, 11 juillet 2010 - 03:06 .

[fortunesque]

Pfft. The "email" system in ME2 is silly anyway

[Sialater]

FireEye wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Honestly, the point of Horizon was to
create a ridiculous argument that was OOC for both characters to give
them some kind of reason for them to not follow Shepard.

Agreed.  Doesn't Kaidan say something like "I would have followed you anywhere" if you aren't romancing him, too?  Which would imply that if you'd wanted to ditch to Cerberus, you could have taken him with you - and that's what he's pissed about, instead of the whole traitor thing.

sesheta255 wrote...
re the email - I was actually surprised that Miranda or Kelly or whoever let it through to Shep in the first place and if I'm going to go all conspiracy theorist here I could say that it might have been altered by one of them

My (paranoid in general, paranoid about being spied on, technophobe, Sole Survivor) Shepard's reaction to the email still cracks me up.

"So not only did you send it through an Alliance address, which are monitored and censored by the way, you sent it to a Cerberus address, which is filtered through their intelligence network.  Which means that not only did my effort to push you away and keep you safe not work, now everybody in the Alliance and Cerberus knows about Ilos.

...and you wonder why I didn't write you back.  <_<"

Although, at the time she received it, it was something like: . . .

Yeah... that's both my Shep's reactions.

[sesheta255]

I do wonder how Cerberus knows about Shep & Kaidan in the first place anyway, unless one of the old Normandy crew spilled the beans, or they had someone on board the original Normandy.

[Kassy B]

@sesh - True...I'm sure the original Normandy crew knew something was going on, but how would Cerberus know in the first place...