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[Jean]

Aslanasadi wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Just to get Kaidan back on topic... what time of year do you think he was born? I say winter.

Uff. No idea... What makes you think that his birthday is in the winter?

No idea either. I'm just guessing. Since we know jack about him apart from little he says in game, that's all we can pretty much do.

Modifié par Batteries, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:06 .

[Pacifien]

This is just a counterpoint to Fortunesque's novel.

I've played ME2 just about as much as I have ME1. I enjoy the games for different reasons. ME1 had a much tighter and focused story with the added bonus of introducing you to an entirely new science fiction setting. It is a game of discovery.

I think people get the wrong impression on what the story happens to be for ME2. I had read and seen interviews long before ME2 came out that made it clear they wanted the characters to be the story. In that respect, the Collector story arc is nothing more than the frame for the smaller stories in between, much like reading Canterbury Tales or 1001 Arabian Nights.

The ultimate failing is that the frame story isn't as strong as the smaller stories. The whole impetus of these missions was the idea that this is the final end for a group of people who aren't expected to come back. Some of these missions are done to better effect than others in this regard. For Miranda, before she dies, she wants to know her sister is safe. For Samara, before she dies, she wants to know Morinth is dead. For Garrus, before he dies, he wants to know that there has been final justice for his dead team. For Mordin, he wants to know his student is safe and the genophage data isn't a threat.

It probably helps that I like a great deal of the new characters. I particularly like Jack, Kasumi, Mordin, Samara, and Thane. Mass Effect is just as good with them in it as it was for the squadmates of ME1. This is an entirely subjective point, however.

When it comes to dialogue, because of the loyalty missions, you sometimes get even more detail on the characters than you would with simple conversations on the Normandy. Again, the only failing is the lack of the elevator-type dialogues that gave you the impression that these squadmates were talking to more than just you. For some odd reason, they included an exchange between Garrus and Tali on the Citadel while they cut a similar exchange between Jack and Zaeed on Omega. I wish I could ask the developers why. Seemingly taking fan complaint to heart, Kasumi specifically addresses issue among crew and the squadmates, giving the impression she talked to every single one of them.

There is just as much diversity in the order you do the missions in ME2 as there is in ME1. In ME1, you're on rails until you get your Spectre status. From there you are given a choice of three locations, three missions. Only after two of them are you given the choice of another. After all four are done, you are forced back to the Citadel. In ME2, you're on rails until you get the Normandy. From there you are given a choice of four locations, and up to six missions (if you have Kasumi and Zaeed). After Horizon, you're again given the choice of several locations and missions to be done in any order. Being forced to do Horizon or the Collector Base isn't any different than being forced to the Citadel in my mind.

I was happy to see inventory gone as it was poorly implemented in ME1. I have ideas for its return, but I'm certainly not going to look at the inventory system of ME1 with nostalgia. As for class design, I'm less interested in that than I am actually seeing the world react to the type of Shepard I am developing. Neither ME1 or ME2 have satisfied me in this regard.

Beyond Kasumi's dialogue, I've seen the developers address other issues players have had with ME2. Kasumi's mission has considerable interaction with her and one of the best level designs of the game. Overlord took the level design a step further and tried to create atmosphere along with environment immersion. Still hasn't reached the level of Bringing Down the Sky which I think captures the feel of being in space, which is a feel I think Mass Effect should maintain. Even the latest armor DLC addressed issues people had with other armor that had been released.

I like ME1 and ME2 for different reasons, and an integration of the two would go a long way for a great ME3.

[Jade5233]

Done with the work week.  Woo hoo!  Time to catch up...

Oh!  First:  WELCOME POSIONED!

FireEye wrote...

Batteries wrote...

I was thinking about that a couples days ago when I did the Horizon scene. He just seemed really... tired. He just seemed tired. His voice sounded really tired too.

I'd say this is true.  I noticed it the first time around - he does seem worn out.  Although then, I attributed it to his being aggravated at the assignment (what, with the "everybody hates me" bit that's revealed).

Poor Kaidan. 

I think the fact that we are in sunlight for once makes a difference.  When we talk to him on the SR1, its in that weird orange light from his workstation all of his features look darker, while Shep is white and shiny. 

But yeah.  I'm sure he felt a bit overwhelmed and underappreciated.  Perhaps it was good for Lily to be around.  At least he had one person who liked him.

Fire Eye:
This may sound like a loaded question, but I'm genuinely curious how other people feel:

I found ME2 to be a let down.  Still haven't found the root of why just yet, only that I had less fun with ME2 than I did with ME1 a month prior.

For those of you who feel let down by ME2, would it have made things better to have had Kaidan/Ashley as a squadmate?  For those of you who enjoyed ME2 through and through, you can read the question, "Would having had Kaidan/Ashley as a squadmate made the perfect game?"

I really enjoyed the game regardless.  It had  good story and that kept me captivated.  But I did feel the absence of Kaidan in the game.  Made it more somber, which was probably part of the point.
My Shepard would go up, look at his photo after every mission or two, read his message fairly often--besides, I had to feed those darn fish.

Ruby Red
If I remember correctly they were supposed to bridge the gap in ME to ME2 and all we got was Pinnacle Station and Bring Down The Sky and that in no way bridge anything Part of me wonders if they think that if they keep bombarding us with DLC that we will forget what they said. IDK sometimes all this thinking makes my head hurt

I think that was done in the comics and books.

Jenova
Thanks!  I agree, it was executed quite badly, even if they had put a just a tiny bit of wavering on Kaidan's part on Horizon, something there and then that displayed he really wanted  to go with Shepard. Hell, even if he reached out and touched her face it would give you something  to be faithful to!
ME3 (for faithful players) has the potential to amaze or devastate, I am trusting BioWare, they had better not let me down  

He was happy to see her, gave her a glowing introduction, a big hug (and not a quick one).  I think he extended the olive branch enough.  Shepard didn't really take him up on it.  Things went downhill from there for both of them and their tempers.
The message from Kaidan is then is the reconciliatory attempt.  Granted, its confused and muddled.  But he cared enough to try again.  That was enough for my Shepard.  She was still sad, but she didn't feel jilted anymore.  It kept her out of trouble with the other males on the ship.
But its supposed to be a bit ambigous by design.  Horizon and the non-committal letter allow the freedom for the player/character to chose to move on with another LI.

Aslan:
That´s true... But at least my Cousland could *order* Alistair to kiss her when ever she felt like it in DA:O.

YES!  I loved that!  And its was unique to Alistair (for the female characters).  No other Bioware LI does that--not even Zev.

@Fortunesque:
I guess the lack of depth in the friendships didn't bother me all that much except with Garrus.  These weren't people you were recruiting to be friends with.  I mean, honestly how many of these people would you want to be friends with?  These were people that were selected based on their ability to get the job done without caring how it is done.  Overall, they are a pack of screw-ups/reprobates with questionable ability to see right and wrong the way Shepard, Kaidan and Ash would.  (There are exceptions like Tali, of course).  Honestly, I didn't really need to get closer to Jack.  Thane I enjoyed and would be my first choice for LI if Kaidan didn't exist.  But his whole "It wasn't me, I was just the weapon" thing is not the best set of ethics either.

BTW fortune:  Loved Parallax.  My hubby kept asking me why I was laughing.  I had him read the part from Joker's POV and he laughed--esp about Shepard's...proficiency and her glass...friend

[fortunesque]

@Pacifen
And if the characters are supposed to be the story and you don't like the characters because you don't connect to them, that's a problem. There was less interaction with the ME2 squad because there were that many more of them. I personally didn't find the game interesting because it was so character driven that the question "why am I doing all of this stuff?" isn't reiterated that much. I felt frustrated and angry with the team because *none* of them had their stuff together. Because I got the sense of having to do things for all of them, I didn't feel like I had a group of peers and that there was no squadmate that I could truly count on. From ME2, I liked Miranda, Jack and Samara. The rest I could throw into a big "meh" or strong dislike pile. 

Anyway, the whole thing a matter of opinion so yeah 

[Jade5233]

fortunesque wrote...

@Pacifen
And if the characters are supposed to be the story and you don't like the characters because you don't connect to them, that's a problem. There was less interaction with the ME2 squad because there were that many more of them. I personally didn't find the game interesting because it was so character driven that the question "why am I doing all of this stuff?" isn't reiterated that much. I felt frustrated and angry with the team because *none* of them had their stuff together. Because I got the sense of having to do things for all of them, I didn't feel like I had a group of peers and that there was no squadmate that I could truly count on. From ME2, I liked Miranda, Jack and Samara. The rest I could throw into a big "meh" or strong dislike pile. 

Anyway, the whole thing a matter of opinion so yeah 

I would agree with you there.
Perhaps its just my POV, but with Ash an Kaidan, I felt that they were there for you.  For the ME2 characters, you are there for them.  They don't really care about Shepard as a person.  Just what they can get her to do for them.  She's so isolated--which is by TIM's design and even Andersons, to a lesser extent.

[kraidy1117]

fortunesque wrote...

@Pacifen
And if the characters are supposed to be the story and you don't like the characters because you don't connect to them, that's a problem. There was less interaction with the ME2 squad because there were that many more of them. I personally didn't find the game interesting because it was so character driven that the question "why am I doing all of this stuff?" isn't reiterated that much. I felt frustrated and angry with the team because *none* of them had their stuff together. Because I got the sense of having to do things for all of them, I didn't feel like I had a group of peers and that there was no squadmate that I could truly count on. From ME2, I liked Miranda, Jack and Samara. The rest I could throw into a big "meh" or strong dislike pile. 

Anyway, the whole thing a matter of opinion so yeah 

Well Fort, expect for Garrus and Tali, all the new characters had 4 or over conversations, plus there personal mission. There was alot more dialog with them in ME2. But your right, it is opinion, to me I felt like the crew in ME2 where friends and a familly, that's me tho. and I never knew you liked Miri

[siriusrambles]

Batteries wrote...
Just to get Kaidan back on topic... what time of year do you think he was born? I say winter.

i thought i once read something about his mother being exposed to element zero and was born later that year.  now i can't find the article.  maybe i dreamed it.

Modifié par siriusrambles, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:38 .

[Pacifien]

See, then the issue for ME2 will probably always come down to how you feel about the characters. I have loved a great many of them, and Morinth is probably the only one I couldn't bring myself to like. I missed having Kaidan around, but his absence wasn't a game killer for me. And the meeting with Wrex in ME2 is one of the most heartwarming moments of either game, and he appears to be doing important work for all Krogan. But I like Grunt, so I'm not going to go with Wrex > Grunt arguments.

[fortunesque]

kraidy1117 wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

@Pacifen
And if the characters are supposed to be the story and you don't like the characters because you don't connect to them, that's a problem. There was less interaction with the ME2 squad because there were that many more of them. I personally didn't find the game interesting because it was so character driven that the question "why am I doing all of this stuff?" isn't reiterated that much. I felt frustrated and angry with the team because *none* of them had their stuff together. Because I got the sense of having to do things for all of them, I didn't feel like I had a group of peers and that there was no squadmate that I could truly count on. From ME2, I liked Miranda, Jack and Samara. The rest I could throw into a big "meh" or strong dislike pile. 

Anyway, the whole thing a matter of opinion so yeah 

Well Fort, expect for Garrus and Tali, all the new characters had 4 or over conversations, plus there personal mission. There was alot more dialog with them in ME2. But your right, it is opinion, to me I felt like the crew in ME2 where friends and a familly, that's me tho. and I never knew you liked Miri

There is 100% no way that the new squadmates have more dialogue than the ME1 characters. There's 30% more dialogue in ME2 spread out over 10 (not including dlc chars) squadmates. The devs themselves have stated about the 30% more dialogue; I promise I'm not pulling this out of my ass.

And yes, I love Miranda. I started out hating her and then I ended up really liking her. I'll admit that I don't readily share which characters I like and dislike because some of my opinions about the ones I dislike are strong and against popular opinion. 

Anyway this is a Kaidan thread. Sorry I dragged stuff so far off topic. 

To loop around:
You still get a lot of dialogue from Kaidan if you shut him down. They didn't do this in ME2. It's like, "you're a great friend, character ___" and then they look at you like  and then they stop talking to you.

[kraidy1117]

fortunesque wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

@Pacifen
And if the characters are supposed to be the story and you don't like the characters because you don't connect to them, that's a problem. There was less interaction with the ME2 squad because there were that many more of them. I personally didn't find the game interesting because it was so character driven that the question "why am I doing all of this stuff?" isn't reiterated that much. I felt frustrated and angry with the team because *none* of them had their stuff together. Because I got the sense of having to do things for all of them, I didn't feel like I had a group of peers and that there was no squadmate that I could truly count on. From ME2, I liked Miranda, Jack and Samara. The rest I could throw into a big "meh" or strong dislike pile. 

Anyway, the whole thing a matter of opinion so yeah 

Well Fort, expect for Garrus and Tali, all the new characters had 4 or over conversations, plus there personal mission. There was alot more dialog with them in ME2. But your right, it is opinion, to me I felt like the crew in ME2 where friends and a familly, that's me tho. and I never knew you liked Miri

There is 100% no way that the new squadmates have more dialogue than the ME1 characters. There's 30% more dialogue in ME2 spread out over 10 (not including dlc chars) squadmates. The devs themselves have stated about the 30% more dialogue; I promise I'm not pulling this out of my ass.

And yes, I love Miranda. I started out hating her and then I ended up really liking her. I'll admit that I don't readily share which characters I like and dislike because some of my opinions about the ones I dislike are strong and against popular opinion. 

Anyway this is a Kaidan thread. Sorry I dragged stuff so far off topic. 

To loop around:
You still get a lot of dialogue from Kaidan if you shut him down. They didn't do this in ME2. It's like, "you're a great friend, character ___" and then they look at you like  and then they stop talking to you.

Dat poop!

Anyways ya, back to Kaidan.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:47 .

[fortunesque]

siriusrambles wrote...

Batteries wrote...
Just to get Kaidan back on topic... what time of year do you think he was born? I say winter.

i thought i once read something about his mother being exposed to element zero and was born later that year.  now i can't find the article.  maybe i dreamed it.
*snip*

You didn't dream it. 
 The wiki says:
An accident at Singapore International Spaceport exposes hundreds of humans to dust-form element zero. Roughly 30% of the children born in Singapore after element zero exposure suffer from cancerous growths. After his mother is exposed during the accident, Kaidan Alenko is born later that year with biotic potential.

So, he was probably born at least in the later half of the year... 

Edit: This was 2151 btw

Modifié par fortunesque, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:48 .

[kraidy1117]

fortunesque wrote...

siriusrambles wrote...

Batteries wrote...
Just to get Kaidan back on topic... what time of year do you think he was born? I say winter.

i thought i once read something about his mother being exposed to element zero and was born later that year.  now i can't find the article.  maybe i dreamed it.
*snip*

You didn't dream it. 
 The wiki says:
An accident at Singapore International Spaceport exposes hundreds of humans to dust-form element zero. Roughly 30% of the children born in Singapore after element zero exposure suffer from cancerous growths. After his mother is exposed during the accident, Kaidan Alenko is born later that year with biotic potential.

So, he was probably born at least in the later half of the year... 

Edit: This was 2151 btw

Cerberus caused this I beleive. Let me go get Ascension, it mentions an event like this that Cerberus did.

Nope by bad, Cerberus did a incident like that in 2170.  Maybe Conatix did it, Kaidan has doubts it was a acident.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:58 .

[Pacifien]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Cerberus caused this I beleive. Let me go get Ascension, it mentions an event like this that Cerberus did.

Doubt it. Biotics did not exist before the accident in Singapore -- no one knew what element zero could do to the human body. Not only that, I doubt Cerberus's origins go back that far if they are intricately linked to the Illusive Man.

[kraidy1117]

Pacifien wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Cerberus caused this I beleive. Let me go get Ascension, it mentions an event like this that Cerberus did.

Doubt it. Biotics did not exist before the accident in Singapore -- no one knew what element zero could do to the human body. Not only that, I doubt Cerberus's origins go back that far if they are intricately linked to the Illusive Man.

Nope, I cheacked, the event I am thinknig of took place in 2170, That's my bad.

[goofygoff]

Jade5233 wrote...

I would agree with you there.
Perhaps its just my POV, but with Ash an Kaidan, I felt that they were there for you.  For the ME2 characters, you are there for them.  They don't really care about Shepard as a person.  Just what they can get her to do for them.  She's so isolated--which is by TIM's design and even Andersons, to a lesser extent.

I guess this never really bothered me because you're asking these people to join you on a suicide mission that they're not likely to come back from.  And not all of them are being paid for it either.

I liked that a couple of characters do ask Shepard how she's doing.  Of course, in both instances, it's tied to a romance, so I can see how many people here would've missed it. 

Even though I may have gotten to know her a little better, I felt no closer to Ashley in ME1 than I did to a lot of the ME2 characters.

[siriusrambles]

fortunesque wrote...
You didn't dream it. 
 The wiki says:
An accident at Singapore International Spaceport exposes hundreds of humans to dust-form element zero. Roughly 30% of the children born in Singapore after element zero exposure suffer from cancerous growths. After his mother is exposed during the accident, Kaidan Alenko is born later that year with biotic potential.

So, he was probably born at least in the later half of the year... 

Edit: This was 2151 btw

thanks for finding it fort.  at least that narrows down possible options for his birth month.

[Jean]

I wonder if Kaidan plays FarmTown on that monitor he always tinkers with...

[goofygoff]

Batteries wrote...

I wonder if Kaidan plays FarmTown on that monitor he always tinkers with...

"Oh no!  Kaidan Alenko has found a lonely varren wandering on his farm"

*Shepard's mouse hovers over 'Hide' button*

[Lady Cousland]

Batteries wrote...

I wonder if Kaidan plays FarmTown on that monitor he always tinkers with...

That or he has a hidden camera in Shepard's cabin and he's watching footage.

[Jean]

goofygoff wrote...

Batteries wrote...

I wonder if Kaidan plays FarmTown on that monitor he always tinkers with...

"Oh no!  Kaidan Alenko has found a lonely varren wandering on his farm"

*Shepard's mouse hovers over 'Hide' button*

That's what I do

[siriusrambles]

he looks intent on grabbing something.

[fortunesque]

siriusrambles wrote...

he looks intent on grabbing something.

His poor back.  It has to hurt after that... 

Modifié par fortunesque, 16 juillet 2010 - 07:42 .

[Jean]

fortunesque wrote...

siriusrambles wrote...

he looks intent on grabbing something.

His poor back.  It has to hurt after that... 

He looks like he's carrying some tension... maybe Shepard can help him get rid of it..

Wait.

We already used this line.

[FireEye]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Nope by bad, Cerberus did a incident like that in 2170.  Maybe Conatix did it, Kaidan has doubts it was a acident.

He doubts that exposures in general were accidents (after they were running out of new biotics).  He doesn't doubt his own exposure was an accident.  Or at least, that's how I remember it?

Modifié par FireEye, 16 juillet 2010 - 07:56 .

[Jean]

Man, I really wanted to see that Shepard VI.