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[Lady Cousland]

Batteries wrote...

Wait. I just read something disturbing.

Jacob... fantasized about you when you were the Alliance "mascot"? :S

I'm sure many a young soldier did. Jacob fantasized about getting the prize:lol:


Top of the page Kaidan:

Modifié par Alenko, 16 juillet 2010 - 09:24 .

[JaerWolfe]

Batteries wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...
snip

I've seen more people call him "whiny" than call him gay. The whiny part usually links back to them not liking Carth, so someone else with the same VA must be whiny too.

Collider wrote...
Carth does actually play a big part. Carth was seen as a whiner too with his trust issues. So some people really did not like Carth and since Kaidan has the same voice actor, they are sort of projecting the "whinyness" of Carth onto Kaidan.

Those are the hard ones to grasp. It so vague and unformed. Very annoying.

Collider wrote...
I hardly ever see Kaidan being called "gay." I've seen it a couple times only. As far as those few who call him "gay," it's just because Kaidan is "sensitive" and not super macho like say Wrex or Canderous or Zaeed. I've also heard Alistair being called gay.

About whining - since people do not like Kaidan anyway (because they think he's boring), they're therefore going to sympathize less with his "problems."

So they're going to see Kaidan talknig about headaches or Rana to be overreacting and complaining. Considering we all know that Kaidan does not whine - I'd say most of the time when he's said to be whiny, people are just saying that they don't like him.

jillyfae wrote...

@jaer: What? Fight? who? why? what'd I doooo? *laughs*
I think a lot of the dislike comes from his subtlety. It's perfectly easy, if you're not paying that much attention, to converse w/Kaidan and only pick up: "He doesn't want me to have fun and blow everything up" "he keeps talking about rules and ****" or "omg, he's talking about his ex again? why does bioware keep doing that?" You have to pay attention to Kaidan.

That I can work with without making a cartoonish stereotyped cliche! Thank you, Collider & Jilly.
Thank you to the rest of those who input as well. It's so much easier to write something if I understand the different points of view and can weave them in.
Sirius, if you're still searching, I'd still like to see what you find.

@Jilly...we're still fighting. Two words: Spider Research
I had to look at pictures. I may need therapy now and I blame you for starting the whole mess.

[sagefic]

 hallos...

hi jaer.

wow. uh....twenty pages, huh? what'd i miss while i was on my way to horizon?

[Lady Cousland]

Shortest version...The majority of the pages were a huge discussion on what people liked best in ME1 and ME2 and i guess which game people preferred.

[Jade5233]

FireEye wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Nope by bad, Cerberus did a incident like that in 2170.  Maybe Conatix did it, Kaidan has doubts it was a acident.

He doubts that exposures in general were accidents (after they were running out of new biotics).  He doesn't doubt his own exposure was an accident.  Or at least, that's how I remember it?

I just did that part of the game.
Kaidan's wasn't intentional.  But it was the first exposure group.
He has question about the next batch--the ones that were exposed after they ran out of kids from the first exposure.  He suspects that they were intentionally exposed.

  Jilly
I think a lot of the dislike comes from his subtlety. It's perfectly easy, if you're not paying that much attention, to converse w/Kaidan and only pick up: "He doesn't want me to have fun and blow everything up" "he keeps talking about rules and ****" or "omg, he's talking about his ex again? why does bioware keep doing that?" You have to pay attention to Kaidan.

Exactly.  He's more reserved.  I don't get the "whiny" thing either.  He doesn't.  If something happens that he doesn't like, he either keeps it to himself or says his peace (usually) reasonably and then sucks it up and moves on.

  Batteries
Wait. I just read something disturbing.

Jacob... fantasized about you when you were the Alliance "mascot"? :S

ew
But then, again, Shepard is an attractive woman and he's a guy.  *shrugs* 

[JaerWolfe]

Hi, sage!



The discussion a few pages back had me wondering something else so I might as well toss it out as well since I'm here...do you think Kaidan knew about the suicide mission before Shepard left for the Omega IV relay? If yes, does the lack of communication/goodbye/passionate pre-last battle night of nookie make you view his character any differently?

[Jade5233]

Oh, on the love triangle, here's one with all 3 outcomes, but none have going to talk to the characters after:

[Collider]

I think they made Jacob as an overcompenstation for the criticisms that Kaidan got.

Mission: Failure. Though I liked that Jacob had more buddy talk.

[Sialater]

JaerWolfe wrote...

Hi, sage!

The discussion a few pages back had me wondering something else so I might as well toss it out as well since I'm here...do you think Kaidan knew about the suicide mission before Shepard left for the Omega IV relay? If yes, does the lack of communication/goodbye/passionate pre-last battle night of nookie make you view his character any differently?

I don't think he knew about it.  I'm of the opinion the Alliance (and Anderson) was trying to keep him in the dark as much as possible.

[Collider]

Even if he did know about it, there's really not much he could do. He could email her - but how would he know before hand when exactly Shepard would enter the Omega 4 Relay? Also - such an email could distract her from full focus on the mission, which could be dangerous.

[Jean]

JaerWolfe wrote...

Hi, sage!

The discussion a few pages back had me wondering something else so I might as well toss it out as well since I'm here...do you think Kaidan knew about the suicide mission before Shepard left for the Omega IV relay? If yes, does the lack of communication/goodbye/passionate pre-last battle night of nookie make you view his character any differently?

I doubt he personally knew himself. If he found out it was probably after the relay was used and rumors would make its way around.
I'm sure Anderson probably figured out beforehand and if Kaidan tried to get any info, he probably got stonewalled.

[sesheta255]

I'm not sure if Kaidan knew about the suicide mission, fics aside. I'm sure there were some in the Alliance that knew, but I doubt whether the information was passed to Kaidan, given that no-one had confirmed that Shepard was alive and he'd only heard rumours pre Horizon. - I still think some of the higher ups know what Cerberus are doing and are either actively helping them or silently cheering from the sidelines. If Anderson knew he may have passed the info on to Kaidan but seeing that he didn't tell him Shep was alive I doubt it. It would also depend on whether Anderson knew about his relationship with Shepard which is debatable I guess.

[Lady Cousland]

Collider wrote...

Even if he did know about it, there's really not much he could do. He could email her - but how would he know before hand when exactly Shepard would enter the Omega 4 Relay? Also - such an email could distract her from full focus on the mission, which could be dangerous.

I agree.

[Jade5233]

JaerWolfe wrote...

Hi, sage!

The discussion a few pages back had me wondering something else so I might as well toss it out as well since I'm here...do you think Kaidan knew about the suicide mission before Shepard left for the Omega IV relay? If yes, does the lack of communication/goodbye/passionate pre-last battle night of nookie make you view his character any differently?

I think he knew that she was up against the Collectors.  He knew from experience now that death can take anyone at any moment.
But I don't think he knew details.  I don't think that he knew that this was slated as a suicide run.  He wouldn't have had such indecisive wording in his message had he known.  He might have reached out to her more.  He might not have for fear of hurting worse if he lost her again.  I think at this point he just needed time.  He's so cautious, and now especially so.  He's conflicted and doesn't know quite what he feels or thinks about Shepard.  Perhaps if she had invited him to try to straighten things out...but I don't think he would be ready just yet.  It would just be night-before-the-battle thing and I can't see him allowing himself to go there in his current state of mind and heart.

[sagefic]

Sialater wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

Hi, sage!

The discussion a few pages back had me wondering something else so I might as well toss it out as well since I'm here...do you think Kaidan knew about the suicide mission before Shepard left for the Omega IV relay? If yes, does the lack of communication/goodbye/passionate pre-last battle night of nookie make you view his character any differently?

I don't think he knew about it.  I'm of the opinion the Alliance (and Anderson) was trying to keep him in the dark as much as possible.

what sia and jade said.

there is no FREAKING way kaidan the man who loved and i think still loves shepard would leave it at "stop these attacks" if he realized it was a suicide mission. no no no. not in my understanding of him AT ALL.

it does make me wonder how thane knew about hte omega 4 relay - but even anderson doesn't seem to fully grasp what shep is intending, i think. i think they reallydon't think she'd be that reckless.

i think he would be horrified to know what she actually did.

i sure hope so, anyhow.

okay, and now i need to go be social. been sitting here alone  writing for severalhours - glorious.

[Jean]

About the character's and the bulk of their recruitment/loyalty missions.. you have to remember that a lot of them really were important to the story. Maybe not the immediate story on hand witht eh Collectors, but epic foreshadowing about what could be coming up.
The geth and the quarians, genophage, do we get to make a star go supernova and kill reapers(yes please )

[Jean]

sagequeen wrote...

Sialater wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

Hi, sage!

The discussion a few pages back had me wondering something else so I might as well toss it out as well since I'm here...do you think Kaidan knew about the suicide mission before Shepard left for the Omega IV relay? If yes, does the lack of communication/goodbye/passionate pre-last battle night of nookie make you view his character any differently?

I don't think he knew about it.  I'm of the opinion the Alliance (and Anderson) was trying to keep him in the dark as much as possible.

what sia and jade said.

there is no FREAKING way kaidan the man who loved and i think still loves shepard would leave it at "stop these attacks" if he realized it was a suicide mission. no no no. not in my understanding of him AT ALL.

it does make me wonder how thane knew about hte omega 4 relay - but even anderson doesn't seem to fully grasp what shep is intending, i think. i think they reallydon't think she'd be that reckless.

i think he would be horrified to know what she actually did.

i sure hope so, anyhow.

okay, and now i need to go be social. been sitting here alone  writing for severalhours - glorious.

I think Kaidan knows Shepard enough to know that anything she does is a suicide mission. I just don't think he knew the details apart from the collectors being involved.

[JaerWolfe]

I see a lot of 'the Alliance knew but didn't tell Kaidan'...does that make you trust the Alliance more or less? Or is it justified?

I ask because one of the strongest theories out there is that the VS will be the Alliance rep to Shepard. So the Alliance rep...with their complete loyalty to the Alliance...has to all appearances had an important bit of information withheld from them. Would that effect their loyalty?

Most of this is pure speculation, of course. Also, it's based on the Alliance actually knowing you had any kind of relationship with the VS which is also open to debate.

[Sialater]

JaerWolfe wrote...

I see a lot of 'the Alliance knew but didn't tell Kaidan'...does that make you trust the Alliance more or less? Or is it justified?
I ask because one of the strongest theories out there is that the VS will be the Alliance rep to Shepard. So the Alliance rep...with their complete loyalty to the Alliance...has to all appearances had an important bit of information withheld from them. Would that effect their loyalty?
Most of this is pure speculation, of course. Also, it's based on the Alliance actually knowing you had any kind of relationship with the VS which is also open to debate.

I should have qualified my statement:  IF the Alliance knew and Cerberus isn't a black black ops branch.

[sesheta255]

JaerWolfe wrote...

I see a lot of 'the Alliance knew but didn't tell Kaidan'...does that make you trust the Alliance more or less? Or is it justified?
I ask because one of the strongest theories out there is that the VS will be the Alliance rep to Shepard. So the Alliance rep...with their complete loyalty to the Alliance...has to all appearances had an important bit of information withheld from them. Would that effect their loyalty?
Most of this is pure speculation, of course. Also, it's based on the Alliance actually knowing you had any kind of relationship with the VS which is also open to debate.

I just think that because Cerberus was originally an Alliance operation, someone knows something.  Plus the fact that they were able to get their hands on the Normandy plans, and the fact that Jacob still had contacts in the Alliance to be able to get shielding that was in top secret development.
I don't think the Alliance are lily white, but I just see them as a slightly better option than Cerberus.  I think Kaidan would be still be loyal to the Alliance but if he found out that they still had their fingers in Cerberus pies or other shady things he'd be upset and his loyalty would be tested, and maybe slip a little, but I can't see him going against them totally

[jillyfae]

@Jaer. oh. spiders. sorry. *squashes mental image of Rambo* so sorry. (I was just re-reading the Couple Talk stories too ... )

From Anderson's perspective, there is absolutely no rational explanation for Shepard's resurrection and ties to Cerberus, so however much he might want to believe in her, I get why he can't. I also get why he wouldn't want to make things harder for any of the original crew, as he had to have noticed how broken up they were, especially Kaidan. The level of 'broken' implied by either of the VS emails is not something that people can completely hide long-term.

I also agree w/the general consensus that there have to be members of the Alliance who know about Cerberus, and are helping TIM and his ilk out. Anderson probably suspects them too, which is another reason to play his cards close to the chest.

[Jean]

sesheta255 wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

I see a lot of 'the Alliance knew but didn't tell Kaidan'...does that make you trust the Alliance more or less? Or is it justified?
I ask because one of the strongest theories out there is that the VS will be the Alliance rep to Shepard. So the Alliance rep...with their complete loyalty to the Alliance...has to all appearances had an important bit of information withheld from them. Would that effect their loyalty?
Most of this is pure speculation, of course. Also, it's based on the Alliance actually knowing you had any kind of relationship with the VS which is also open to debate.

I just think that because Cerberus was originally an Alliance operation, someone knows something.  Plus the fact that they were able to get their hands on the Normandy plans, and the fact that Jacob still had contacts in the Alliance to be able to get shielding that was in top secret development.
I don't think the Alliance are lily white, but I just see them as a slightly better option than Cerberus.  I think Kaidan would be still be loyal to the Alliance but if he found out that they still had their fingers in Cerberus pies or other shady things he'd be upset and his loyalty would be tested, and maybe slip a little, but I can't see him going against them totally

I think the first Normandy was actually suggested to be built by Cerberus. Could be wrong.

[Jade5233]

JaerWolfe wrote...

I see a lot of 'the Alliance knew but didn't tell Kaidan'...does that make you trust the Alliance more or less? Or is it justified?
I ask because one of the strongest theories out there is that the VS will be the Alliance rep to Shepard. So the Alliance rep...with their complete loyalty to the Alliance...has to all appearances had an important bit of information withheld from them. Would that effect their loyalty?
Most of this is pure speculation, of course. Also, it's based on the Alliance actually knowing you had any kind of relationship with the VS which is also open to debate.

It wasn't until reading some FF that I noticed and started to believe signs that the Alliance knows more about Shepard than they let on--to her or to Kaidan.  The Alliance, I am sure, has some very strong intel.  Just because their official line is to stick their heads in the sand doesn't mean that they aren't aware.  Anderson mostly has his hands tied, but he's grey at this point.
IMO, he sent Kaidan out there as bait.  It doesn't matter if he knows about him and Shepard or not.  It had to be obvious that they were close regardless.  I don't quite know if I can forgive him or the Alliance or him from risking Kaidan that way without Kaidan knowing any of it.
I think that Kaidan will find out and his loyalty will be shaken to an extent.  It won't be as blind as it has been.

[sapphyreelf]

I am keeping my conspiracies to myself for now, but my short answers are:

No, I don't think Kaidan knew it was a suicide mission.

Yes, some Alliance brass had to know.

Anderson is gray, but I think he and Shep have enough of a "relationship" for him to read Shep and know what's really going on and what all it entails.

[sagefic]

Jade5233 wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

I see a lot of 'the Alliance knew but didn't tell Kaidan'...does that make you trust the Alliance more or less? Or is it justified?
I ask because one of the strongest theories out there is that the VS will be the Alliance rep to Shepard. So the Alliance rep...with their complete loyalty to the Alliance...has to all appearances had an important bit of information withheld from them. Would that effect their loyalty?
Most of this is pure speculation, of course. Also, it's based on the Alliance actually knowing you had any kind of relationship with the VS which is also open to debate.

It wasn't until reading some FF that I noticed and started to believe signs that the Alliance knows more about Shepard than they let on--to her or to Kaidan.  The Alliance, I am sure, has some very strong intel.  Just because their official line is to stick their heads in the sand doesn't mean that they aren't aware.  Anderson mostly has his hands tied, but he's grey at this point.
IMO, he sent Kaidan out there as bait.  It doesn't matter if he knows about him and Shepard or not.  It had to be obvious that they were close regardless.  I don't quite know if I can forgive him or the Alliance or him from risking Kaidan that way without Kaidan knowing any of it.
I think that Kaidan will find out and his loyalty will be shaken to an extent.  It won't be as blind as it has been.

did anderson send kaidan out there as bait? am replaying horizon atm and can't recall. i got the distinct impression that TIM might have been pulling strings there, also.