63501 réponses à ce sujet

[jillyfae]

Silk Fox, Dawn Star, Carth, Bastila, Morrigan, Alistair... BioWare does actually have a track record of tying LI's into the plot. I'm hoping, in the perfect happy world that lives in my imagination, that all potential LI's have a happy conclusion in ME3 (even if it's just them standing by your side at the ending cutscene for you to imagine your own details) while the VS and Liara also get to play with the story proper. I would not think a unique dialogue track and inclusion in a final cutscene would be too much to ask for all the ME characters... you just won't see them if they're dead, but enough people would see them that it would be worth making. *shrugs*

[Lucky Thirteen]

JaerWolfe wrote...
This is where BW didn't do themselves any favors making such a large and diverse team for ME2. Everyone wants their favorites to have the spotlight. Everyone has characters they really dislike and others they're simply 'meh' about.
On the other hand, ME2 drifted far from the RPG aspects and is trying to tap the Halo/MW/GoW crowd. Few of them are concerned with a fleshed out romantic ending unless it involves a lack of clothing.
My biggest hope for the ME1 LIs is that their role in ME3 includes actual character development and individuality. I don't expect they will get anything much different by way of a HEA than any other potential LI.
Am I a cynic or realist? Flip a coin.

Yeah I'm starting to think there are too many characters as well. I love them all for their own reasons, yes even Jacob, but the more and more I think of the complications behind bringing them all back for ME3 and the ME1 characters, my brain starts to hurt. For that, I'm glad I'm not writing for BioWare.

It seems like they're really pushing the Shepard Jesus thing, you've got a total of twelve to recruit in ME2. I actually think it would have been better if they included the ME1 characters for the 12 and had an optional extra character to replace Wrex if you chose to kill him. They should have just had 7 of the total 12 for ME2, and in ME3
have them come together as the total 12. Don't ask me who should have been dropped and who should be kept, cause again I love all the characters for their various reasons. Everytime I think about it I keep going back and saying to myself, wait, no, such and such is awesome sauce for this and that.

With the plot they seem to be aiming for, Wrex becomes an important figure to his people and Liara has something going on that she's the only character that can't die, I can kinda see why they weren't included. Ashley and Kaidan at the moment don't seem to have anything important going on, unless the rumor is true that they will be the next proposed human spectre and sent out to stop the rogue Spectre Shepard. I was actually wondering on my first playthrough if they were going to pull what they did with Tali, and have Kaidan/Ashley come back in the end for some reason. I had a feeling the last dossier would be Legion because it was interesting he hadn't showed up at all during the story when he was advertised, but I thought it were more likely to be Kaidan and Legion would swoop in as some kind of boss.

Surprise, surprise.

I miss my biotic buddy Kaidan.

Modifié par Lucky Thirteen, 23 juillet 2010 - 06:55 .

[Star]

 
I love this thread, but sometimes the borderline bashing of other LIs, and certain Sheps, makes me a sad panda. Everyone has their preferences and if we all agreed on everything, it’d be boring. But please just keep in mind that some of us really like the ME2 LIs, as well. If they’re not your cup of tea, that’s totally cool – but think about how you feel when someone calls Kaidan whiny or boring when you’re using terms such as sleazy and shallow to describe other romances and Sheps.

Thank you, Goff.

I don't usually respond to these things but this kinda hit me oddly so bear with me a moment.

 I am truly trying to express this as neutrally as possible.

Ok, so in thinking about how I feel... when an opinion is labeled "borderline bashing" in a sentence that encourages people to accept that we may have different preferences it makes me feel that  it's not ok to express a difference of opinion.   

If we are truly respecting each others' opinions, then it needs to be ok to express differences and disagreements (respectfully) even when they differ. So one person's "sleezy and cheesy"  is another's "hawt, fun and interesting. "  I think there's room for both.

[Star]

And since I may have killed the thread, have the Triple Treat

[JaerWolfe]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

Yeah I'm starting to think there are too many characters as well. I love them all for their own reasons, yes even Jacob, but the more and more I think of the complications behind bringing them all back for ME3 and the ME1 characters, my brain starts to hurt. For that, I'm glad I'm not writing for BioWare.

It seems like they're really pushing the Shepard Jesus thing, you've got a total of twelve to recruit in ME2. I actually think it would have been better if they included the ME1 characters for the 12 and had an optional extra character to replace Wrex if you chose to kill him. They should have just had 7 of the total 12 for ME2, and in ME3
have them come together as the total 12. Don't ask me who should have been dropped and who should be kept, cause again I love all the characters for their various reasons. Everytime I think about it I keep going back and saying to myself, wait, no, such and such is awesome sauce for this and that.

With the plot they seem to be aiming for, Wrex becomes an important figure to his people and Liara has something going on that she's the only character that can't die, I can kinda see why they weren't included. Ashley and Kaidan at the moment don't seem to have anything important going on, unless the rumor is true that they will be the next proposed human spectre and sent out to stop the rogue Spectre Shepard. I was actually wondering on my first playthrough if they were going to pull what they did with Tali, and have Kaidan/Ashley come back in the end for some reason. I had a feeling the last dossier would be Legion because it was interesting he hadn't showed up at all during the story when he was advertised, but I thought it were more likely to be Kaidan and Legion would swoop in as some kind of boss.

Surprise, surprise.

I miss my biotic buddy Kaidan.

Okay, I had not heard that bolded bit before. Good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I read it, lol.
While I love the variety of the companions because there is so much you can do with them and how they add to the story, ultimately this is a computer game and having so many creates as many problems as it solves.
I think the strongest hint of Ash/Kaidan being a Spectre comes from ME2 itself. One of the newsfeeds mentions something about the Council refusing to confirm rumors that a Spectre has been sent to investigate the colony disappearances or something. Can't remember it exactly anymore.

Star58 wrote...
I don't usually respond to these things but this kinda hit me oddly so bear with me a moment.

 I am truly trying to express this as neutrally as possible.

Ok, so in thinking about how I feel... when an opinion is labeled "borderline bashing" in a sentence that encourages people to accept that we may have different preferences it makes me feel that  it's not ok to express a difference of opinion.   

If we are truly respecting each others' opinions, then it needs to be ok to express differences and disagreements (respectfully) even when they differ. So one person's "sleezy and cheesy"  is another's "hawt, fun and interesting. "  I think there's room for both.

Thank you for posting this. I couldn't think of how to politely put what you did so well. I dislike posts that imply that one opinion is more valid or necessary than another.

[Jade5233]

And I'm sure that there are people for who Sbarge's voice grates on them as much as its a turn on for many of us here. That perhaps they would have liked Kaidan better with a different voice and couldn't get past it so new choices were welcome.

[Star]

Jade5233 wrote...

And I'm sure that there are people for who Sbarge's voice grates on them as much as its a turn on for many of us here. That perhaps they would have liked Kaidan better with a different voice and couldn't get past it so new choices were welcome.

Ah, personal preference.    Althought what cracks me up at times is that some of the same folks (and in this case I'm thinking of the multitude of teen boys that have inhabited my house over the last few years) who  made less than favorble comments about Kaidan and the VA in ME, liked S'barge as Scorch in the SW game.

[Star]

Ack! I keep killing things!  Here, quick....Kaidan CPR!

[Shenzi]

Star58 wrote...

Ack! I keep killing things!  Here, quick....Kaidan CPR!

That got my attention Star.  

[Sialater]

Star58 wrote...

 
I love this thread, but sometimes the borderline bashing of other LIs, and certain Sheps, makes me a sad panda. Everyone has their preferences and if we all agreed on everything, it’d be boring. But please just keep in mind that some of us really like the ME2 LIs, as well. If they’re not your cup of tea, that’s totally cool – but think about how you feel when someone calls Kaidan whiny or boring when you’re using terms such as sleazy and shallow to describe other romances and Sheps.

Thank you, Goff.

I don't usually respond to these things but this kinda hit me oddly so bear with me a moment.

 I am truly trying to express this as neutrally as possible.

Ok, so in thinking about how I feel... when an opinion is labeled "borderline bashing" in a sentence that encourages people to accept that we may have different preferences it makes me feel that  it's not ok to express a difference of opinion.   

If we are truly respecting each others' opinions, then it needs to be ok to express differences and disagreements (respectfully) even when they differ. So one person's "sleezy and cheesy"  is another's "hawt, fun and interesting. "  I think there's room for both.

Soo... you've never gotten irritated or defensive about people calling Kaidan boring or whiny? 

When I feel I have to defend Meghan's choices repeatedly in this thread because I went with what her character WAS, then it's no longer a friendly discussion.  Using words, repeatedly, like "cheesy and sleazy" to descibe other characters is negative and frankly indicates that these characters are lesser.   It is NOT respectful of others' opinions to continuously use these words in respect to the ME2 LIs.   For instance, I could do a line-by-line analysis of the Garrus romance
and show how it's not "cheesy or sleazy," but this isn't the place for
it.  Attacking the other LI's here is dirty pool since we can't debate
it as this is the Kaidan thread. 

You can dislike the ME2 LI's all you want.  You can complain about them.  I don't go around describing Jacob, or his romance, as "sleazy" despite suffering through it for an entire game.  (That motivational is about as mean as I'll get on here.)  There are more polite ways to phrase your dislike of a character or their romance than to dismiss the characters as "cheesy or sleezy" or their romancers as "cheaters."  (I don't care what phrase BW calls it.)

This current atmosphere of denigrating the other characters just because they're not Kaidan (and frankly, I believe I've romanced the guy about a 100 times more than most on this thread considering how many Shepards I had/have), is ridiculous.  

I'm going to have to cool down a great deal before I come back here.   Y'all have pissed me off that much.

[Aslanasadi]

Hello Star

hope you are doing fine:)

while I do some other things I´m jumping in and out here the whole time...

[IccaRa]

Sia has a point.



It's less about respecting each other's opinions and more about how comparing, or bashing, or belittling other romances makes Kaidan (and his fans) look.



It's the difference between standing in a crowded room and saying,



"I love my wife, because she is beautiful."



and



"I love my wife because all the other women here are ugly."



The former will have people smiling and nodding, patting you on the back, happy that you've found a woman who compliments you. You can talk about your wife's good qualities, and why you married her.



The latter will have you pummeled by a gang of angry husbands, because it's insulting to them. Only in this case, the husbands will be other angry fangirls.



It's fine to not like other romances, or think they're not your Shepard's cup of tea. But does Kaidan really need to be supported with negativity?



Isn't Kaidan awesome enough to be supported with positivity?



Don't you guys love Kaidan because he is the most beautiful woman in the room to you? (Or, y'know... the equivalent.)



Just sayin'. I see where these people are coming from.



It's awkward to come into a thread, and see your other favorites being trashed (no matter what thread it is.) Thane is my fav romance, but I still love all of them, including Kaidan.

[goofygoff]

Star58 wrote...

If we are truly respecting each others' opinions, then it needs to be ok to express differences and disagreements (respectfully) even when they differ. So one person's "sleezy and cheesy" is another's "hawt, fun and interesting. " I think there's room for both.

I just don't think calling something that I enjoy "sleazy" is being respectful. Even if it's not intended, it implies that there's something wrong with people who do like those romances.

I had a lot more to say on the subject, but Sia put it much more eloquently than I would have, so I'll just second her post hard and leave it at that.

Edit:  And IccaRa's, too.

Modifié par goofygoff, 23 juillet 2010 - 07:58 .

[Star]

Sialater wrote...

Star58 wrote...

 
I love this thread, but sometimes the borderline bashing of other LIs, and certain Sheps, makes me a sad panda. Everyone has their preferences and if we all agreed on everything, it’d be boring. But please just keep in mind that some of us really like the ME2 LIs, as well. If they’re not your cup of tea, that’s totally cool – but think about how you feel when someone calls Kaidan whiny or boring when you’re using terms such as sleazy and shallow to describe other romances and Sheps.

Thank you, Goff.

I don't usually respond to these things but this kinda hit me oddly so bear with me a moment.

 I am truly trying to express this as neutrally as possible.

Ok, so in thinking about how I feel... when an opinion is labeled "borderline bashing" in a sentence that encourages people to accept that we may have different preferences it makes me feel that  it's not ok to express a difference of opinion.   

If we are truly respecting each others' opinions, then it needs to be ok to express differences and disagreements (respectfully) even when they differ. So one person's "sleezy and cheesy"  is another's "hawt, fun and interesting. "  I think there's room for both.

Soo... you've never gotten irritated or defensive about people calling Kaidan boring or whiny? 

When I feel I have to defend Meghan's choices repeatedly in this thread because I went with what her character WAS, then it's no longer a friendly discussion.  Using words, repeatedly, like "cheesy and sleazy" to descibe other characters is negative and frankly indicates that these characters are lesser.   It is NOT respectful of others' opinions to continuously use these words in respect to the ME2 LIs.   For instance, I could do a line-by-line analysis of the Garrus romance
and show how it's not "cheesy or sleazy," but this isn't the place for
it.  Attacking the other LI's here is dirty pool since we can't debate
it as this is the Kaidan thread. 

You can dislike the ME2 LI's all you want.  You can complain about them.  I don't go around describing Jacob, or his romance, as "sleazy" despite suffering through it for an entire game.  (That motivational is about as mean as I'll get on here.)  There are more polite ways to phrase your dislike of a character or their romance than to dismiss the characters as "cheesy or sleezy" or their romancers as "cheaters."  (I don't care what phrase BW calls it.)

This current atmosphere of denigrating the other characters just because they're not Kaidan (and frankly, I believe I've romanced the guy about a 100 times more than most on this thread considering how many Shepards I had/have), is ridiculous.  

I'm going to have to cool down a great deal before I come back here.   Y'all have pissed me off that much.

Actually, I don't get upset by differences of opinion over my videogame choices and I do think there's plenty of room for difference.   I am sorry you feel you've had to defend your choices. Certainly you haven't had to defend them from me.  I agree that one shouldn't have to do so.  My own opinion -- and what I was trying to express as neutrally as possible  is that when we start to use labels on each other or on each other's choices then we aren't respecting others.   I do believe that I take responsibility for my opinions without labeling or pointing fingers at someone else so that our differences can become discussion.  

Modifié par Star58, 23 juillet 2010 - 08:06 .

[Star]

goofygoff wrote...

Star58 wrote...

If we are truly respecting each others' opinions, then it needs to be ok to express differences and disagreements (respectfully) even when they differ. So one person's "sleezy and cheesy" is another's "hawt, fun and interesting. " I think there's room for both.

I just don't think calling something that I enjoy "sleazy" is being respectful. Even if it's not intended, it implies that there's something wrong with people who do like those romances.

I had a lot more to say on the subject, but Sia put it much more eloquently than I would have, so I'll just second her post hard and leave it at that.

Edit:  And IccaRa's, too.

I think that there's plenty of room for everyone here and that's all I've said.  If all we can say is that we enjoy something or say nothing, then how does that allow us to have "differences of opinion?"   I'm not pointing figures at you, I'm saying that all of us, self included, need to be clear about what we say and take responsibility for our own opinions. Which is what I'm trying to do.

[Sialater]

But using the words "cheesy and sleazy" ARE labels, Star. And negative ones.



If you don't like them, you don't like them. Say WHY. Give examples and reasons. Throwing a label on them is attacking them and their romancers.



I dislike Jacob's Romance (and, frankly, character) because femShep talks to him like a drunken cheerleader on prom night and during the romance, he talks about "button pushing," as if Shep is already (****-)teasing him, and when he is dumped he pulls emotional blackmail on her. And if you dump him for Garrus or Thane he actually calls them by derogatory slurs. That's an example.



"Jacob is sleazy," is combative and indefensible.

[Jean]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

sesheta255 wrote...
See this is the attitude I just don't get.  I shouldn't be penalised by having Kaidan non existant in ME2 just to satisfy the petty jealousy of other people (because someone might actually get more screen time in game),  who either a) chose not to romance Kaidan and miss out on how awesome he is for whatever reason, or were so shallow and fickle that they dropped their pants for the first person who looked at them because Kaidan had the audacity to raise his voice and stick to his principles rather than follow Shepard blindly.

I'd also like to point out that this is actually the Kaidan thread and whilst we do discuss other LI's in comparison to Kaidan, I think that if you want to tell everyone how great you think a particular LI is (other than Kaidan), then you should take it to the appropriate thread.
I am not trying to point the finger at anyone or accuse the person I quoted of this.  I am merely pointing something out.  I am afraid I am not as elequant or diplomatic in my way of speaking/thinking as other people.

Yes, as I've said, Kaidan is awesome and one of the rougher romances. You're not getting punished, you're being tested. Plot wise, this is how Bioware feels the story should go with the ME1 LI right now. Perhaps I should have worded what I said better but please don't take it as a petty, jealousy type thing. I don't think too many people would have thrown a jealousy fit if Kaidan, Ashley, or Liara had rejoined the group. I know I wouldn't have cared. They are pre-existing characters after all and ME2 LI are overall secodary except for Tali and Garrus. I don't see many people getting mad about Tali and Garrus having existed since the first game, but they were minor characters in the first. I wouldn't have cared either way and was surprised at the time of my first playing that Kaidan wasn't joining.

This thread was discussing and comparing other romances and a person in particular I felt misunderstood part of the dialogue with Thane. I just wanted to clarify that Shepard doesn't respond like she's going to rape Thane, sorry. I never said he was better than Kaidan, I'm not here to promote Thane. I was actually avoiding saying anything about the romance despite several commits against him, but most of those comments were about appearance and simply not liking the romance. People have the right to see Thane as the creature from the black lagoon with a fast romance. I did say I prefered him for my Shepard. Kaidan just doesn't work right for the personality in my head I have for Shepard. Nothing more.

I still love Kaidan. I do believe this isn't a Kaidan only as a love interest thread right? Can't Kaidan be a buddy? Or am I wrong. Should I get out now before I'm pummuled for wanting to keep him in the friend zone. I just want to get other perspectives on his personality is all.

Yes yes yes. This. This is how I feel sometimes. I love Kaidan's romance and character, but I only have a couple Shepards who actually romanced him. His romance is good, but my Shepards that I'm serious with usually stay single. I play it that way because I don't want anything getting in the way of screwing with the mission. Some could argue that Shep deserved some time to herself and someone she cares about, but mine are not like that. Everybody is going to have different Sheps. My opinion, the ones that most compliment most my Shepards would be Garrus or Joker(I know he's not an LI, but I'm speaking character wise). A couple others would be Kaidan and  one other is Thane. Main one is going it alone until ME3 maybe, I might start a romance in that one if I could. Or maybe I'll die alone or ride off into space to never be heard of again alone too, never know. All my Sheps would die in a heartbeat to save everybody on her team.

[siriusrambles]

egads, i apologize to anyone that i have offended today. i'm not sure what i did but it was completely unintentional. my posts are supposed to be lighthearted. again, sorry.

[goofygoff]

Sialater wrote...

But using the words "cheesy and sleazy" ARE labels, Star. And negative ones.

If you don't like them, you don't like them. Say WHY. Give examples and reasons. Throwing a label on them is attacking them and their romancers.

I dislike Jacob's Romance (and, frankly, character) because femShep talks to him like a drunken cheerleader on prom night and during the romance, he talks about "button pushing," as if Shep is already (****-)teasing him, and when he is dumped he pulls emotional blackmail on her. And if you dump him for Garrus or Thane he actually calls them by derogatory slurs. That's an example.

"Jacob is sleazy," is combative and indefensible.

Yes, this.  Thank you again for putting it better than I have been able to. 

(I really shouldn't open cans of worms when I'm on conference calls.)

Modifié par goofygoff, 23 juillet 2010 - 08:18 .

[JaerWolfe]

Okay, I could do a long bit on how both points are valid, but I want this flare up to die and quickly. Let it go.

People are pissed, fine, go cool off. Call a truce whatever.

You want to talk about another LI...in any way...take it to their support thread. You want to talk about Kaidan, keep it friendly.

I love this Thread. I enjoy the diversity and the variety of the people on it, which means there are going to be differences of opinions. Great. Celebrate them, embrace them and move on.

[Jean]

I think this is the first time I've ever seen some sort of argument on here between posters.

EDIT

And guys.. we've almost made it too 2000 pages of Kaidan love, he'd like that.

Modifié par Batteries, 23 juillet 2010 - 08:34 .

[Collider]

This is a first indeed...

[Sialater]

I've never gotten to the point where I saw red before.

[Jenova65]

 It makes me sad! 

[JaerWolfe]

I keep trying to think of some funny bit I can write and post because I use humor to combat stress, but nothing is coming. My muse has died, which is a bit of a pain, since I had plans for her.

Also, I would like to apologize in advance if I came off as sounding like anyone's mother.