63501 réponses à ce sujet

[freelovefreeway]

I'm one who likes to watch Lilith get slushed. I can say why I found the stuff with Lilith threatening. Well, not threatening because there is no threat when Shepard is around, but why I do read something into the Lilith/Kaidan stuff.

Lilith seems like a nice and normal person. She seems to be the only colonist that doesn't hate Kaidan. That means she doesn't get swayed by other people's opinions and she isn't judgmental about the alliance or biotics. The two have clearly been working together and have built up a relationship—just a friendly one at this point, but it's a start. And I think it's a start that Kaidan likes to start from. It all fits very well with what paragon Shep and Kaidan's relationship is to me.

On Horizon, the way Lilith calls him Commander also reminds me of Kaidan/Shepard except in a role reversal, obviously. They're walking and talking and he does his beloved little scoff laugh. He makes a comment about everyone blaming him. She comforts him about it. Again, it all seems to be in the same vein as the Kaidan/ParagonShep romance beginning.

When the Collector swarms arrive, Lilith stays by his side. His instructions of, “Get everyone to the safe house,” could also be put up against the Normandy going down and Shepard telling Kaidan to get to the escape pods. But Lilith doesn't move from Kaidan's side until he is frozen by the bugs—and he is frozen while helping her up.

He doesn't behave in a way that any other good alliance soldier wouldn't also behave in (see Ashley in the exact same role...) but since he is Kaidan those parts stick out to me. I realize that with the one character of VS it is hard to make an argument for it being set up this way—there can't be anything with Kaidan and Lilith if there isn't anything with Kaidan and Ashley. But I'm someone who does think that the same thing can be different in different circumstances and the parallels when Kaidan is there are too much for me to ignore.


Edit: Bagh, top of page again. I'm no good with pictures. Someone else put one up, please!

Modifié par freelovefreeway, 29 juillet 2010 - 07:58 .

[Cypher0020]

I never thought Lilith was a threat imo. She was just there... a colonist, and it sucks she got slushed, but hey Kelly got out ok at least in my games



Oddly enough....how come the Collectors didn't take Kaidan? Because Shepard stopped them in time?

[Jean]

Cypher0020 wrote...

>.>

what are we talking about now?

Good question. :happy:

[sesheta255]

freelovefreeway wrote...

I'm one who likes to watch Lilith get slushed. I can say why I found the stuff with Lilith threatening. Well, not threatening because there is no threat when Shepard is around, but why I do read something into the Lilith/Kaidan stuff.

Lilith seems like a nice and normal person. She seems to be the only colonist that doesn't hate Kaidan. That means she doesn't get swayed by other people's opinions and she isn't judgmental about the alliance or biotics. The two have clearly been working together and have built up a relationship—just a friendly one at this point, but it's a start. And I think it's a start that Kaidan likes to start from. It all fits very well with what paragon Shep and Kaidan's relationship is to me.

On Horizon, the way Lilith calls him Commander also reminds me of Kaidan/Shepard except in a role reversal, obviously. They're walking and talking and he does his beloved little scoff laugh. He makes a comment about everyone blaming him. She comforts him about it. Again, it all seems to be in the same vein as the Kaidan/ParagonShep romance beginning.

When the Collector swarms arrive, Lilith stays by his side. His instructions of, “Get everyone to the safe house,” could also be put up against the Normandy going down and Shepard telling Kaidan to get to the escape pods. But Lilith doesn't move from Kaidan's side until he is frozen by the bugs—and he is frozen while helping her up.

He doesn't behave in a way that any other good alliance soldier wouldn't also behave in (see Ashley in the exact same role...) but since he is Kaidan those parts stick out to me. I realize that with the one character of VS it is hard to make an argument for it being set up this way—there can't be anything with Kaidan and Lilith if there isn't anything with Kaidan and Ashley. But I'm someone who does think that the same thing can be different in different circumstances and the parallels when Kaidan is there are too much for me to ignore.


Edit: Bagh, top of page again. I'm no good with pictures. Someone else put one up, please!

this - you said it so much better than I would be capable of, lol

[Quaay]

sesheta255 wrote...

@fire - quite honestly I am one that would lose whichever member on my squad I have to to make room for Kaidan if it came down to it. there are a few that I would be glad to be rid off but a lot that it would be hard for me to see go. but I'd rather have Kaidan back, maybe thats just me.

I feel that way too. I could easily choose one squad member to delete but if I had to lose more than one I'd be conflicted. Some characters I just love for who they are and others are more useful in combat. I really hope they don't make us do that.

[Jean]

I could see someone like Mordin become an NPC, he seems like he'd be fit for that and for hilarious convos.

[FireEye]

Shepard: "So, who was that chick I saw you with earlier?"
Kaidan: "Uh..."
(the real reason for the fight on Horizon)


... speaking for myself, I was rather disappointed when I didn't manage to save any of the abducted colonists.  I kinda thought that was the point of the game, "fight for the lost" or whatever, not this "not one more" bit.

[J4N3_M3]

sesheta255 wrote...

I know a lot of people like ME2, I do too, I just don't think its as good as ME1, and for me ME1 had more replayablility. Once again thats just my opinion and we are all going to differ on that. I knew Kaidan only had a cameo before ME2 came out, I was just disappointed because I felt it could have been handled a lot better than it was. To me it seemed like the writers were deliberately trying to turn everyone against the VS and possibly use this as a reason not to include them in ME3.

I actually felt the same way on my first PT, but I changed my mind on the following PTs. Whatever their reasoning was, I don't really care anymore. They did quite a good job at translating the entire atmosphere from the game to me. It was just dark, in every way possible. Not only did I have to fight against an unknown enemy, with new allies, that I didn't really want to work with, I also had nothing to go back to. I went from being the famous Commander Shepard to just Shepard, trying to save the galaxy without knowing if I or my crew will survive this. I felt anger, frustration, hate, loneliness, joy (when I got at least Garrus, Tali and Joker back)....it was a huge mix of emotions and to be honest, it was a TOUGH test I was put on. Not only relationship wise with my Mainshep but also character wise with my other sheps, paragon or renegade, pro or anti-Cerberus, pro or anti-Alliance. All this doubt was just eating me up. Just great! 

[sesheta255]

FireEye wrote...


... speaking for myself, I was rather disappointed when I didn't manage to save any of the abducted colonists.  I kinda thought that was the point of the game, "fight for the lost" or whatever, not this "not one more" bit.

I wondered about that too.  I thought the fight for the lost speech in the trailer was much better than the not one more thing we ended up with.  I felt like I'd let my crew down after those two near the bridge were overheard talking about shepard getting one of their brothers back that had been taken or something.

[Jean]

FireEye wrote...



Shepard: "So, who was that chick I saw you with earlier?"
Kaidan: "Uh..."
(the real reason for the fight on Horizon)


... speaking for myself, I was rather disappointed when I didn't manage to save any of the abducted colonists.  I kinda thought that was the point of the game, "fight for the lost" or whatever, not this "not one more" bit.

We did get to save half the colony that didn't get taken!... I think
That's what Delan said anyway, half the colony was taken.

[sesheta255]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

sesheta255 wrote...

I know a lot of people like ME2, I do too, I just don't think its as good as ME1, and for me ME1 had more replayablility. Once again thats just my opinion and we are all going to differ on that. I knew Kaidan only had a cameo before ME2 came out, I was just disappointed because I felt it could have been handled a lot better than it was. To me it seemed like the writers were deliberately trying to turn everyone against the VS and possibly use this as a reason not to include them in ME3.

I actually felt the same way on my first PT, but I changed my mind on the following PTs. Whatever their reasoning was, I don't really care anymore. They did quite a good job at translating the entire atmosphere from the game to me. It was just dark, in every way possible. Not only did I have to fight against an unknown enemy, with new allies, that I didn't really want to work with, I also had nothing to go back to. I went from being the famous Commander Shepard to just Shepard, trying to save the galaxy without knowing if I or my crew will survive this. I felt anger, frustration, hate, loneliness, joy (when I got at least Garrus, Tali and Joker back)....it was a huge mix of emotions and to be honest, it was a TOUGH test I was put on. Not only relationship wise with my Mainshep but also character wise with my other sheps, paragon or renegade, pro or anti-Cerberus, pro or anti-Alliance. All this doubt was just eating me up. Just great! 

I totally hated the fact that shepard just fell into working with Cerberus without much resistance.  Neither my paragon or renegade sheps wanted to work for them after seeing what they were up to in ME1.  It lost a lot of credibility to me early on when that happened so took a lot of my enjoyment out of the game right from the start.  Also the fact that no-one really questioned the fact that shepard was back from the dead and cruising around in a Normandy copy also took a lot of the credibility from it.
Relationship wise I didn't care much for any of the romance options available for femShep and I was disappointed by the fact that Shep's 'friends' - Chakwas, Joker, Tali, Garrus never once bothered to ask Shep how she was doing after Horizon, which really annoyed me.  In ME1 I felt Kaidan had Shep's back and was looking out for her, I never got this feeling from anyone in ME2.  It seemed to be all about fixing everyone elses problems with no thought to how Shepard was feeling.

[Radahldo]

I also hated the lack of resistance.

Especially, I disliked the part in the beginning, where you ask TIM where your squad is and that tree ends with Shepard saying: "Okay, I see what you mean"

That just ruined the first half the game for me.

[FireEye]

I still don't know why they ditched everything from the first game like they did.  Even Kaidan.



How could you ditch that face, BioWare?

[J4N3_M3]

because life is not a pony farm! ME2 was darker than pitch black! and I love pitch black! took a while to get used to it but I love the emotional rollercoaster ride EVERY time!

As for Cerberus: well point of the game is that you come back from the dead and don't have any options. if you use reason here:
1) I wake up, not knowing whats going on, have to fight for survival.
2) I find out it's Cerberus, and think, oh crap!
3) Good-Soldier-me thinks, wait, human colonies disappearing? Can't hurt to look into that! Besides, I'm in high security facilities - both times, there is no othe way for me than co-operating! 
4) Stubborn-me thinks, I don't wanna work with them but although they brought me back from the dead, what are they gonna do to me once they find out, I'm not playing along? *insert horrible experiment flashbacks here* And who knows that I am here? NO ONE! Because I'm officially dead! 
5) So I play along, one way or the other, we go to Freedom's Progress. Crap again, TIM was right! There's a huge threat, to humanity for now, to the galaxy on the long run. Soldier-me yells GO GET 'EM! I meet Tali but she has changed. And she doesn't really trust me. So what am I supposed to do? Cling to her and go "Oh please please please take me with you on a mission I don't wanna be with THEM" ????? Oh hell no! Soldier-me still sees the importance of working with Cerberus, at least for now! 
6) So we come back from FP and learn everything about our old crew, and the Alliance and how they treated our death. Of course we refuse to believe most of it and still play (or at least pretend to play) along. Then, YAY, Joker!!!!! YAY, shiny new ship! First stop, Citadel! (I said, we are using logic here!) We meet (or maybe not) the Council, Anderson and Udina. Either way, it all sucks, because we learn that TIM was frakking right! DUH! Maybe it had been just me but my WORLD definitely started to crumble there! So, going back to the Alliance would end how? Right, being grounded, being sent on stupid boring missions. Do I want that? All of my mes yell FUKK NO GET OUTTA THERE AND SAVE THE GALAXY. So yeah, of course I work with Cerberus, if I like it or not. It's the only option I've got! 

[J4N3_M3]

Radahldo wrote...

I also hated the lack of resistance.
Especially, I disliked the part in the beginning, where you ask TIM where your squad is and that tree ends with Shepard saying: "Okay, I see what you mean"
That just ruined the first half the game for me.

actually shep says: okay, I get it. They're not available! 
In a very resignated voice! 

It's not like she agrees with him. She just gets the point he is trying to make. THAT they are not available for her at this point. If she believes it or not is up to you.



Tali: Shepard? You are alive?
Shep: Yeah, will you join me fighting the Collectors?
Tali: But you're with Cerberus now! 
Shep: Oh that, haha, yeah, funny story! But seriously, will you join me? 
Tali: I can't! I'm on an important mission.
Shep: What mission? I can help! 
Tali: something about suns and stuff! But actually, I don't wanna work with Cerberus! 
Shep: You could work for me?
Tali: SUNS!!!!
Shep: yeah got it! 

Kaidan: Shepard? You are alive?
Shep: Yeah, will you join me fighting the Collectors?
Kaidan: But you're with Cerberus now! 
Shep: Oh that, haha, yeah, funny story! But seriously, will you join me? 
Kaidan: You betrayed everything we believed in.
Shep: Get over yourself, I need your help to save the galaxy.
Kaidan: Sorry, can't....I have important business on the ...errm....Citadel. Besides, I'm still angry that you're with Cerberus.

Garrus: Shepard? You're alive?
Shep: Yeah, will you join me fighting the Collectors?
Garrus: Sure, I'm tired of shooting mercs anyway.
Shep: cool! 
Garrus: But wait, are you Cerberus now?
Shep: Nah, not really, but the Alliance dumped me so I kinda re-considered my - uhm - priorities. And we have a shiny new ship.
Garrus: Cool, can I calibrate the weapons?
Shep: Sure! 

Liara: Shepard! Good to see you're alive! 
Shep: Lia....wait! You don't seem too surprised to see me! 
Liara: Yeah well, you know, I kinda sorta gave you to Cerberus! 
Shep: ...
Liara: I thought I was doing the right thing, but actually I was being selfish because I missed you so much and I love you and
Shep: now now, pull yourself together, this is awkward! 
Liara: but...
Shep: oh come on, I'm not mad. Well, yeah I am, a bit, but eh, it's okay. Will you join me?
Liara: No I can't! 
Shep: What the FRAK? THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT AND NOW YOU REFUSE TO FRAKKING HELP ME??????????
Liara: sorry?
*shep storms out of the room* 

Modifié par J4N3_M3, 29 juillet 2010 - 09:29 .

[sapphyreelf]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

Radahldo wrote...

I also hated the lack of resistance.
Especially, I disliked the part in the beginning, where you ask TIM where your squad is and that tree ends with Shepard saying: "Okay, I see what you mean"
That just ruined the first half the game for me.

actually shep says: okay, I get it. They're not available! 
In a very resignated voice! 

It's not like she agrees with him. She just gets the point he is trying to make. THAT they are not available for her at this point. If she believes it or not is up to you.

I always took Shep's resigned voice to indicate that she's not going to argue with him. And, really, once I get out of that conference with him, nothing is stopping me from going straight to the Citadel and seeing how true what he is saying is in fact true.

And then Anderson basically verifies everything TIM says. You get your Spectre status back (normally, my renegade is still officially dead even to the Council), and no one is telling you where you can go talk to anyone, least of all Kaidan.

Who wants to trust the person who died and is suddenly now alive? Resurrection isn't an easy thing to believe in.

[Lady Cousland]

Been reading a lot of fanfics and i noticed that quite a few of the writers have a femshep who is biotic and can relate to Kaidan more because of it.



So it got me thinking how you guys prefer to do the romance and what backgrounds and classes do you choose to play with. And do you think it effects how you see/feel about the romance.

[sapphyreelf]

Vanguards:  Pushing mild-mannered Kaidan over the edge since 2183. 

Had to reuse Sia's tagline, because it was appropriate.

Alexis Shepard is a Spacer, War Hero, Vanguard, and almost annoyingly Paragon.
Those were the choices that fit the character that I was adapting her from, and it was less about Kaidan when I made her.

They do have a common ground because of their biotics, but I always saw the fact that as they were both officers as a bigger connection. There's only 1 step in rank difference between them, and I always get the impression that you treat Kaidan as more a peer than a subordinate half the time. It's what really kind of sets the romance in my mind. Because he's your peer and you can talk to him.

Add in the aggressive, crazy tendencies of a Vanguard, and those talks probably help keep her from doing really stupid things.

[Jean]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

Radahldo wrote...

I also hated the lack of resistance.
Especially, I disliked the part in the beginning, where you ask TIM where your squad is and that tree ends with Shepard saying: "Okay, I see what you mean"
That just ruined the first half the game for me.

actually shep says: okay, I get it. They're not available! 
In a very resignated voice! 

It's not like she agrees with him. She just gets the point he is trying to make. THAT they are not available for her at this point. If she believes it or not is up to you.



Tali: Shepard? You are alive?
Shep: Yeah, will you join me fighting the Collectors?
Tali: But you're with Cerberus now! 
Shep: Oh that, haha, yeah, funny story! But seriously, will you join me? 
Tali: I can't! I'm on an important mission.
Shep: What mission? I can help! 
Tali: something about suns and stuff! But actually, I don't wanna work with Cerberus! 
Shep: You could work for me?
Tali: SUNS!!!!
Shep: yeah got it! 

Kaidan: Shepard? You are alive?
Shep: Yeah, will you join me fighting the Collectors?
Kaidan: But you're with Cerberus now! 
Shep: Oh that, haha, yeah, funny story! But seriously, will you join me? 
Kaidan: You betrayed everything we believed in.
Shep: Get over yourself, I need your help to save the galaxy.
Kaidan: Sorry, can't....I have important business on the ...errm....Citadel. Besides, I'm still angry that you're with Cerberus.

Garrus: Shepard? You're alive?
Shep: Yeah, will you join me fighting the Collectors?
Garrus: Sure, I'm tired of shooting mercs anyway.
Shep: cool! 
Garrus: But wait, are you Cerberus now?
Shep: Nah, not really, but the Alliance dumped me so I kinda re-considered my - uhm - priorities. And we have a shiny new ship.
Garrus: Cool, can I calibrate the weapons?
Shep: Sure! 

Liara: Shepard! Good to see you're alive! 
Shep: Lia....wait! You don't seem too surprised to see me! 
Liara: Yeah well, you know, I kinda sorta gave you to Cerberus! 
Shep: ...
Liara: I thought I was doing the right thing, but actually I was being selfish because I missed you so much and I love you and
Shep: now now, pull yourself together, this is awkward! 
Liara: but...
Shep: oh come on, I'm not mad. Well, yeah I am, a bit, but eh, it's okay. Will you join me?
Liara: No I can't! 
Shep: What the FRAK? THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT AND NOW YOU REFUSE TO FRAKKING HELP ME??????????
Liara: sorry?
*shep storms out of the room* 

you forgot wrex. i'd count Joker and chakwas too. Joker's reasoning of "they wouldn't let me fly an I was like wtf so hell yes I joined Cerberus" cracks me up.
but... that's basically summed up during the very first meetings. tali seems pretty eager to join you after she does her mission, which actually is pretty darn interesting considering the possibilities in the next game..

Blowing up Reapers with suns!? I'm game. Actually, that prothean vision you have in the first game, I always wondered if they end was a star blowing up. Or just the end of the world/s/ as we know it.

[J4N3_M3]

Alenko wrote...

Been reading a lot of fanfics and i noticed that quite a few of the writers have a femshep who is biotic and can relate to Kaidan more because of it.

So it got me thinking how you guys prefer to do the romance and what backgrounds and classes do you choose to play with. And do you think it effects how you see/feel about the romance.

not at all. Actually, I was never really paying attention to the class itself. I knew, that all LIs would feel attracted to Shepard, no matter what class or background I chose for him/her. That's why I find this all so fascinating.

[J4N3_M3]

Batteries wrote...

you forgot wrex. i'd count Joker and chakwas too. Joker's reasoning of "they wouldn't let me fly an I was like wtf so hell yes I joined Cerberus" cracks me up.
but... that's basically summed up during the very first meetings. tali seems pretty eager to join you after she does her mission, which actually is pretty darn interesting considering the possibilities in the next game..

Blowing up Reapers with suns!? I'm game. Actually, that prothean vision you have in the first game, I always wondered if they end was a star blowing up. Or just the end of the world/s/ as we know it.

I didn't forget Wrex. I never had him on my last three PTs so I just left him out on purpose! 

Tali actually broke my Sheps heart on FP! The way she acts towards Shep because of Cerberus was HORRIBLE and hurt my Shep A LOT! I was glad, she joined later and I just LOVE how she kills Jacob with her eyes (you can even see it through the helmet) when leaving the debriefing room after she had been recruited! 

[Jean]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

Batteries wrote...

you forgot wrex. i'd count Joker and chakwas too. Joker's reasoning of "they wouldn't let me fly an I was like wtf so hell yes I joined Cerberus" cracks me up.
but... that's basically summed up during the very first meetings. tali seems pretty eager to join you after she does her mission, which actually is pretty darn interesting considering the possibilities in the next game..

Blowing up Reapers with suns!? I'm game. Actually, that prothean vision you have in the first game, I always wondered if they end was a star blowing up. Or just the end of the world/s/ as we know it.

I didn't forget Wrex. I never had him on my last three PTs so I just left him out on purpose! 

Tali actually broke my Sheps heart on FP! The way she acts towards Shep because of Cerberus was HORRIBLE and hurt my Shep A LOT! I was glad, she joined later and I just LOVE how she kills Jacob with her eyes (you can even see it through the helmet) when leaving the debriefing room after she had been recruited! 

That staredown was EPIC. I had to laugh out loud when I saw that, she should just stare the reapers to death.

[Lady Cousland]

sapphyreelf wrote...

Vanguards:  Pushing mild-mannered Kaidan over the edge since 2183. 

Had to reuse Sia's tagline, because it was appropriate.

Alexis Shepard is a Spacer, War Hero, Vanguard, and almost annoyingly Paragon.
Those were the choices that fit the character that I was adapting her from, and it was less about Kaidan when I made her.

They do have a common ground because of their biotics, but I always saw the fact that as they were both officers as a bigger connection. There's only 1 step in rank difference between them, and I always get the impression that you treat Kaidan as more a peer than a subordinate half the time. It's what really kind of sets the romance in my mind. Because he's your peer and you can talk to him.

Add in the aggressive, crazy tendencies of a Vanguard, and those talks probably help keep her from doing really stupid things.

Haha love the vanguard line. I've never personally played as a biotic but might during my next play through coz it seems to me that you have to be more tactical with biotics. I agree with you totally about the connection. They appear to already have a mutual respect for each other and because they are both officers, they vakue each others opinions. And i think that because they are so close in rank that they may find that they can only really talk to each other about certain things. It really does set the romance apart.

@Jane - I know that's the great thing about it, that they've made it so it fits everyone's gameplay. I know that going into the game people won't choose classes and backgrounds on what they think will link them more to Kaidan based on what you said.

People can truely make the romance their own in the game so i think it's nice to get to know how everyone portrays it and how they think their fem sheps react and feel about it

[FireEye]

Alenko wrote...

Been reading a lot of fanfics and i noticed that quite a few of the writers have a femshep who is biotic and can relate to Kaidan more because of it.

So it got me thinking how you guys prefer to do the romance and what backgrounds and classes do you choose to play with. And do you think it effects how you see/feel about the romance.

I think that the biotic!Shepard who can relate to Kaidan is an interesting way to play it.  I think it can even add credence to the relationship, because it's an added factor - they're not just Alliance soldiers, they're biotics who happen to be Alliance soldiers.  They have a connection that few others do.

I play a pure soldier Shepard, though.  And she doesn't trust biotics.  It took her a while to get used to Kaidan; she didn't want him around at first, so they had to get past that.  Akuze does play into it; Mindoir, not so much. 

... Again, I think my Shepard is defective.  <_<

[Jean]

I'd think that Kaidan might feel a bit uneasy(?) if Shep has the ruthless background since you get your entire unit killed.

Throughout your military career, you have held fast to one basic rule:
get the job done. You've been called cold, calculating, and brutal. Your
reputation for ruthless efficiency makes your fellow soldiers wary of
you. But when failure is not an option, the military always goes to you
first. The Ruthless character sent 3/4ths of his/her unit to its death
and murdered surrendering batarians on Torfan.


...

Modifié par Batteries, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:19 .