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[sagefic]

fortunesque wrote...

Hey Kabby! Good to see you in here.

I agree 100%. Ash and Kaidan are foils of each other. To have them have the same lines is lazy and OOC for at least one of them. It also cheapens the experience of the first parts of the trilogy and the choices you make, knowing that it's not different at all.

This. Foils, exactly. It's like ME1 - they are foils. ME2, they became analogues. NOT such a fan of that. I mean, I understand making them both be on Horizon and plot arc being the same, but really, how hard would it have been to write slightly different dialog? Plot gremlins could have taken them away, but I think if Ash had blown up and Kaidan had quietly simmered and found a way to walk out, it would have hurt, but not baffled the mind as it did. I mean, you're already paying two VAs - why not a little more $ to the dialog writers for another day or so of script?

Eh *shrug* dunno.

I, too, hope for a "going all out". I'm trying to keep my expectations hopeful but neutral. On that note, off to play ME2. Kyrie's hair just got longer thanks to gibbed. for a moment there, i accidentally turned it green thanks to a number mis-type in the vector edits. very funny.

edit: top of page kaidan

red face would go nice with green hair, no?

Modifié par sagequeen, 02 août 2010 - 08:59 .

[Jade5233]

Quaay wrote...

I'm starting to get behind Chem Light's theory "Anyhow, I maintain my faith in BioWare. It is my firm belief that they are playing their cards close to the vest, that the VS and Anderson have been secretly helping you the whole time, the Horizon blow up was staged to keep their support a secret and to protect you even though it broke their heart to say those things, and that when all is revealed in ME3 both players and Shepards will be embarassed that they ever stopped trusting the VS"
I mean even TIM says how Kaidan's info is surprisingly well-classified...that leads me to believe Anderson and Kaidan know the Alliance may still have ties to Cerberus. I really do hope Kaidan tried to push us away only because he had to. He is trying to get to the bottom of this and has to keep everything close to the vest because they don't know who to trust at this point. It's all going to fall together. Yay for return of optimism!

I could easily see Kaidan investigating Cerberus before Horizon--weren't the defenses partially a cover for that?  But I don't think that he was informed about Shepard--like he said, rumors.  His reaction--the relief in seeing her, then the hurt and anger and betrayal were too real.  You could watch the whole thing unfold in his face.
But I could see him confronting Anderson afterward about it and then getting involved in secret ops.

I think that beforehand Anderson purposely withheld info about Shepard.  I think he knows/deeply suspects that there was something between Kaidan and Shepard.  I mean, Ash picked up on Kaidan's interest before anything even started.  Liara knew and she's not the most discreet in ME1.  You don't think that there were below deck rumors about the two of them after they started flirting more in earnest--no matter how discreet they were trying to be?  I'm sure that Anderson heard some amount of those rumors.  He had a good mentor-type relationship with Shepard and they were trying to be discreet, she was a war hero, and it didn't seem to be interfering with duty.  So likely he looked the other way.
Anderson, knowing this, may have stonewalled both of them before Horizon so that their feelings wouldn't interfere with this secret ops that he was trying to set up for Kaidan--he just hadn't informed Kaidan yet.

Anyways, my current theory.

[Kabraxal]

I am still of the mind that Ash or Kaidan is a Spectre. I have either flat out refused being returned the Spectre status or didn't go to the Citadel until long after Horizon... a random news report still mentioned the presence of a Spectre at Horizon. That, and Ash/Kaidan being part of the old crew and heavily classified leads me to believe they were made a Spectre.



So that would mean they would probably have been in on any secret project Anderson had cooked up in regards to Cerberus/Shepard.

[sagefic]

i am not certain about anderson knowing, but only because i don't know how long you were on the ship prior to eden prime. at times, it sounds like the crew was together a week or so, other times, it sounds like shep got on that ship that day. (chakwas's comment that kaidan "keeps to himself" but she never worked with him before = a while on the ship, however shep looking at earth, then you going by jupiter a second later = that day? just not sure)



if it was recently, i don't know if anderson would have known because he got cut out of the loop so early and wasn't around kaidan and shep. otherwise, if he'd been around, he might have figured it out.

[Collider]

In ME1 they were more foils of each other, but they still transplanted Kaidan into the scene before the Ilos landing. It's strange - because again, they are very different.

[fortunesque]

I think they're spectres or unofficially spectres. And the haters will crap when they hear that.



But that's the haters anyway

[Collider]

There are theories (or ideas) that Ashley and Kaidan become Spectres and try to track Shepard down or something. Or help her. Though, I cannot see Ashley as a Spectre. Kaidan definitely.

[Kabraxal]

Collider wrote...

There are theories (or ideas) that Ashley and Kaidan become Spectres and try to track Shepard down or something. Or help her. Though, I cannot see Ashley as a Spectre. Kaidan definitely.

I see them both easily qualifying.  Ash has the pure phsyical/tactical prowess of a soldier whereas Kaidan offers a keen mind and a biotic ability matched only by a few in the known continuity at this time.

[Collider]

Kabraxal wrote...

Collider wrote...

There are theories (or ideas) that Ashley and Kaidan become Spectres and try to track Shepard down or something. Or help her. Though, I cannot see Ashley as a Spectre. Kaidan definitely.

I see them both easily qualifying.  Ash has the pure phsyical/tactical prowess of a soldier whereas Kaidan offers a keen mind and a biotic ability matched only by a few in the known continuity at this time.

Ash has the phyiscal prowess of a soldier, but not the tactical. She's very green compared to Kaidan. Kaidan is a decorated squad leader. Eden Prime was Ashley's first experience actually fighting. And her squad died. She's basically just a soldier.

[fortunesque]

I can't see it either; it's not a slight to Ash, though. She's a soldier, not an officer. She doesn't do the planning stuff. An expert at weapons? Oh yes. But not a leader in the sense of how an officer or Spectre is.



Kaidan I can see as a Spectre because of his background and training. He's a discrete kind of guy. (Bless Ash's heart but her mouth could get her into all sorts of trouble as a Spectre)

[Jade5233]

Sorry for the long post.  Catching up from earlier today.

Sialater wrote...

That's IF Anderson has the authority to "borrow" Kaidan from the Alliance. We don't know that he does. The Human Councilor is hardly all powerful.

Not officially, but he has a lot of pull I"m sure with people such as Admiral Hackett.

Sage:
truly, i think horizon bothers me less than the fact kaidan isn't there at the end game run. i wanted him there. i felt like i forgave him after the email, but was bitter he wasn't there in the end. not sure what kyrie's gonna do about that. she hasn't told me yet. 

The end of Act 2 is never supposed to be happy.  There is a little lift at the end of the act, but mostly Act 2 of a 3 act play is a big downer.  Putting the ME1 LI at the end would be too good.  Too happy to have the reunion.  And I'm sure they want to save it for Act 3.

Now, going to the Citadel in post-game play, finding the doctor, and scaring the heck out of her with your gun of choice?    That might fit. 

  Pheonix
Both of you may be right. The Power may only go toward Alliance members only. Like being a Human Councilor puts Anderson higher on the authority line than the Admirals of the Alliance aka Hackett...but not higher than the Council itself. Not only that but Hackett seemed like a reasonable man, if Anderson asked him something in certain parameters, I'm sure he'd allow one biotic Commander go under a Councilor's jurisdiction.

Also note that VS (in my case Kaidan ) is the only human/Alliance member that survived and has served directly under Shepard. So when Shepard died, they used her/him as a political icon and then used the VS as their new Alliance icon, second to Shepard since the VS was the only one alive at that point.

This

  Sage
that email was WAY too personal for something that could fall into cerberus hands IMO. just saying. that's why i want to believe it was encrypted. but i highly doubt that's what really happened.

I like that you thought to make it encrypted--highly so--in your fic.
I always REALLY hated the thought of Miranda and Kelly having pawed through such a personal message.  Kaidan is laid so bare in it.  They have no right to see him in such an intimate light.  Your thought that they couldn't see it made me feel better.  Again, your writing sometimes becomes my personal canon. 

Collider
2. Before you land on Ilos, the Virmire Survivor gets panicky. I thought this was out of character for Kaidan. I've never had Kaidan die, but I heard that the dialog is exactly the same for both characters. I think Ashley would be far more likely to freak out.

3. At the start of Mass Effect 2, Kaidan & Liara wear Ashley's trademark phoenix armor.

2--I don't agree.  He just professed that the idea of losing Shepard on this mission terrified him.  Kaidan is Mr. Conservative.  You haven't even started the mission yet and things are messed up, not optimal.  I could see him losing it a little.  Its one more step toward her getting killed potentially.

3--OH!  Is that why?  Huh.

  Sage
however... i hate to say it, but i feel like kaidan has a much better chance of making it back as a LI and a starring role as he's the flip side of ashley's record, as it were. i know i may get some grief for saying so, but hey, you gotta admit, if they cut kaidan, they cut ash. i'd love to have some differences of char in there, but on the other hand, it does up the likelihood of kaidan being back in a big way. 

True

Kabraxal
EDIT: hopefully they don't then sacrifice themselves to save the galaxay and leave a Shepard a long, heartfelt note telling her/him that they always loved them and Horizon was not how they ever felt.  I could see the epilogue of depression, alcoholism, and rage guilt for that.

I'd be really upset.
I'd be very tempted to go out and sell all three games.  There has to be at least the possibility of having a happy ending with the ME1 LI.  Perhaps it won't happen for all Sheps.  But it has to be a possibility.  I'll hate the series forever if it isn't. 

  L.A
I think we need to stand outside Bioware headquarters in Kaidan wigs and demand our sexy biotic hunk.

Is there any way to contact BioWare/let them know that we are here and are quite devoted to the character?  Do they notice how very active this thread is and get the hint?

Sage:
i am not certain about anderson knowing, but only because i don't know how long you were on the ship prior to eden prime. at times, it sounds like the crew was together a week or so, other times, it sounds like shep got on that ship that day. (chakwas's comment that kaidan "keeps to himself" but she never worked with him before = a while on the ship, however shep looking at earth, then you going by jupiter a second later = that day? just not sure)

if it was recently, i don't know if anderson would have known because he got cut out of the loop so early and wasn't around kaidan and shep. otherwise, if he'd been around, he might have figured it out.

I'm saying that rumors travel.  It would be easy for Anderson to dismiss it officially as just rumor since Kaidan and Shepard were being careful to be professional.  He may have chosen to be ignorant of anything going on there.  But I don't doubt that the crew had rumors and that Anderson heard those rumors at some point.

As far as timing goes.  It seems to me that the crew had been on the ship for a short time (a week or so?) getting it ready for the mission.  Shepard stepped onto it from her journey from earth pretty much right before it left.

[Jade5233]

Collider wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Collider wrote...

There are theories (or ideas) that Ashley and Kaidan become Spectres and try to track Shepard down or something. Or help her. Though, I cannot see Ashley as a Spectre. Kaidan definitely.

I see them both easily qualifying.  Ash has the pure phsyical/tactical prowess of a soldier whereas Kaidan offers a keen mind and a biotic ability matched only by a few in the known continuity at this time.

Ash has the phyiscal prowess of a soldier, but not the tactical. She's very green compared to Kaidan. Kaidan is a decorated squad leader. Eden Prime was Ashley's first experience actually fighting. And her squad died. She's basically just a soldier.

I agree with this and with fortune.
I can see Kaidan slipping in and out of the shadows to get a mission accomplished.
Its more difficult with Ash.  She's not as...subtle as Kaidan.  And she's not really the type to make use of feminine wiles/sex appeal either to work as an agent from that angle either.
I have really come to like her--especially for her forthrightness.  I like how she calls Kaidan out on stuff in a teasing way.  But I don't see it with her.

[Collider]

2--I don't agree. He just professed that the idea of losing Shepard on this mission terrified him. Kaidan is Mr. Conservative. You haven't even started the mission yet and things are messed up, not optimal. I could see him losing it a little. Its one more step toward her getting killed potentially.

But he has the exact same dialog as Ashley, I hear. That's not right.

[Kabraxal]

I think Eden Prime showcased her pure fighting ability... she survived when no one else in her unit could. She adapts quickly. And Virmire shows that either survivor is a good asset for one of the most esteemed military squads in the galaxy.

Also, I think the two years during Shepard's "death" probably pushed Ash to be more than what she was.


EDIT: But I do agree that Kaidan is probably the more worthy candidate of the two.  He has experience, ability, and much of what Ashley has in terms of Virmire and the two years of having to cope.  There is no question in my mind that Kaidan is Spectre if he survives.

Modifié par Kabraxal, 02 août 2010 - 10:20 .

[Collider]

Pure fighting ability isn't what Spectres are.

[Jade5233]

Collider wrote...

2--I don't agree. He just professed that the idea of losing Shepard on this mission terrified him. Kaidan is Mr. Conservative. You haven't even started the mission yet and things are messed up, not optimal. I could see him losing it a little. Its one more step toward her getting killed potentially.

But he has the exact same dialog as Ashley, I hear. That's not right.

I never really noticed it being OOC due to his confessions the night before.  Regardless of if its really written for Ash.  True, its much more in character for her to get angry.  But I could see it with Kaidan at that particular point of the story.

[Kabraxal]

Collider wrote...

Pure fighting ability isn't what Spectres are.

That was only one of the assetts I listed.

But let's drop the Ash talk here... this is the Kaidan thread.

[Lucky Thirteen]

Spectres don't have to be leaders or work in groups. They can work alone. Then again, that's what got Nihlus killed.

[Estelindis]

Modifié par Estelindis, 02 août 2010 - 10:50 .

[Jade5233]

hehe that's cute

[sagefic]

you know what else is cute?

http://lh6.ggpht.com...101311 PM.jpgp 

Modifié par sagequeen, 02 août 2010 - 11:20 .

[Kabraxal]

Damn it... of all the things, I can't believe I actually have a man crush on Kaidan.



*sighs*



It doesn't help that he is the kind of guy the world needs more of.

[jtav]

I have an actual crush on Kaidan.

[Shenzi]

sagequeen wrote...

you know what else is cute?

http://lh6.ggpht.com... 101311 PM.jpgp
 

Another cute pic!