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[sapphyreelf]

sagequeen wrote...

yeah...."reapers"

no, you're right about the reapers. i guess...i just feel like there had to be *some* other something out there besides cerberus. heck, i don't know. my shep had a ton of money. surely buy a ship, do what garrus did - ride around the galaxy picking up people. they couldn't be nearly as crazy as jack and grunt. for all that the new normandy rocks, you pickup most of the tech and resources for it on the way.

the trouble is, shepard is the type who could go solo. but he/she doesn't. i just felt like that option had to be explored a little more. yeah, i know, tim says you can walk. but you can't, not really, and i felt like even a little threat hanging over shep's head would make more sense. i just kept thinking reapers, reapers, really it's about reapers, even though i kept thinking...why not just buy my own ship and walk out? especially after horizon.

Time to don the conspiracy hat again, Sage.

I always feel that TIM makes it so you don't have any other option but Cerberus for a reason. The attack at Lazarus Station has his sleezy hands all over it in my head. You wake up to combat, so your natural survivor instincts kick in. Then as soon as you get off the station and start to learn that you've been dead for 2 years, he immediately sends you to after the Collectors - so you don't really get time to process the whole "being dead thing".

I'm not sure how long prior to your waking he started the rumors, but he does start letting things slip - especially to the Alliance - that Shepard is alive and working for Cerberus. So, once he cuts you loose to start investigating and recruiting, your former allies suddenly find out the rumors that you are alive and working with a known terrorist group is true. It keeps them from trusting you implicitly and being exceptionally cautious - hence you can't choose them as an option and it really does make it look like TIM and Cerberus are the only ones doing anything.

By the time Shepard is really able to start seeing the cracks in what TIM is doing behind the scenes (Horizon and Collector Ship), you're a bit invested in stopping the Collectors to just go solo, and the crew isn't quite to the point where you can just take the Normandy and do your own thing. Until EDI is integrated into the ships systems just prior to the Omega 4 Relay, I don't believe she'd allow you to take the ship. She has all sorts of blocks and subroutines that could activate and do god knows what then.

Edit: Top of the page Kaidan:

Modifié par sapphyreelf, 04 août 2010 - 09:13 .

[Ulathar]

good morning.

[Aslanasadi]

Good Morning Baal:)

[Nightodie]

Morning Everyone the Night Crew is. Lurking at work-



@ Sapphy - very well put!!

[Estelindis]

fortunesque wrote...
Nope. Nobody is really Shepard's friend, unless you want to sex them
Then they're all over the place with the happy and the emotions.

Not true!  You can have a great sisterly friendship with Ashley in ME1 and Samara in ME2.  (I got a big sis vibe with Ash and a little sis vibe with Samara.)

Though if you're talking about romanceable vs. non-romance, I can kinda see what you mean in ME2.  Miranda, Jack, Garrus, and Jacob all have very clear cut-off points where you know you'd get to talk more if you were romancing them.

Anyway, to make things more Kaidan-ish: do you think he'd get on well with Samara?  I think he would, because they're alike in being levelheaded and knowing themselves quite well.  (He might object to some of the more inflexible parts of her code, but he also has rules he must follow as an Alliance marine.  Um.  Including those re. fraternisation.  Okay, never mind...)

sagequeen wrote...
but in me2, shep never shows that
vulnerability - to ANYONE, except maybe kelly and joker after horizon
and those felt like completely the wrong people to open up to (well, for
me, kelly anyhow). shep just fixes everyone else's problems, but never
deals with his/her own even though heck, he/she SHOULD be having plenty
given what's happened recently.

I completely agree with this:
Joker and Kelly were not the people with whom I wanted Shep to discuss
Horizon.  Garrus would have been perfect.  I mean, he was friggin'
*there.*  But no, calibrations were more important!

Modifié par Estelindis, 04 août 2010 - 10:39 .

[Jean]

Estelindis wrote...

fortunesque wrote...
Nope. Nobody is really Shepard's friend, unless you want to sex them
Then they're all over the place with the happy and the emotions.

Not true!  You can have a great sisterly friendship with Ashley in ME1 and Samara in ME2.  (I got a big sis vibe with Ash and a little sis vibe with Samara.)

Though if you're talking about romanceable vs. non-romance, I can kinda see what you mean in ME2.  Miranda, Jack, Garrus, and Jacob all have very clear cut-off points where you know you'd get to talk more if you were romancing them.

Anyway, to make things more Kaidan-ish: do you think he'd get on well with Samara?  I think he would, because they're alike in being levelheaded and knowing themselves quite well.  (He might object to some of the more inflexible parts of her code, but he also has rules he must follow as an Alliance marine.  Um.  Including those re. fraternisation.  Okay, never mind...)

sagequeen wrote...
but in me2, shep never shows that
vulnerability - to ANYONE, except maybe kelly and joker after horizon
and those felt like completely the wrong people to open up to (well, for
me, kelly anyhow). shep just fixes everyone else's problems, but never
deals with his/her own even though heck, he/she SHOULD be having plenty
given what's happened recently.

I completely agree with this:
Joker and Kelly were not the people with whom I wanted Shep to discuss
Horizon.  Garrus would have been perfect.  I mean, he was friggin'
*there.*  But no, calibrations were more important!

Garrus isn't exactly a "let's talk about our feelings" kinda guy. In fact, I don't really think anybody on the Normandy apart from Kelly is like that.

[Jade5233]

sapphyreelf wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

yeah...."reapers"

no, you're right about the reapers. i guess...i just feel like there had to be *some* other something out there besides cerberus. heck, i don't know. my shep had a ton of money. surely buy a ship, do what garrus did - ride around the galaxy picking up people. they couldn't be nearly as crazy as jack and grunt. for all that the new normandy rocks, you pickup most of the tech and resources for it on the way.

the trouble is, shepard is the type who could go solo. but he/she doesn't. i just felt like that option had to be explored a little more. yeah, i know, tim says you can walk. but you can't, not really, and i felt like even a little threat hanging over shep's head would make more sense. i just kept thinking reapers, reapers, really it's about reapers, even though i kept thinking...why not just buy my own ship and walk out? especially after horizon.

Time to don the conspiracy hat again, Sage.

I always feel that TIM makes it so you don't have any other option but Cerberus for a reason. The attack at Lazarus Station has his sleezy hands all over it in my head. You wake up to combat, so your natural survivor instincts kick in. Then as soon as you get off the station and start to learn that you've been dead for 2 years, he immediately sends you to after the Collectors - so you don't really get time to process the whole "being dead thing".

I'm not sure how long prior to your waking he started the rumors, but he does start letting things slip - especially to the Alliance - that Shepard is alive and working for Cerberus. So, once he cuts you loose to start investigating and recruiting, your former allies suddenly find out the rumors that you are alive and working with a known terrorist group is true. It keeps them from trusting you implicitly and being exceptionally cautious - hence you can't choose them as an option and it really does make it look like TIM and Cerberus are the only ones doing anything.

By the time Shepard is really able to start seeing the cracks in what TIM is doing behind the scenes (Horizon and Collector Ship), you're a bit invested in stopping the Collectors to just go solo, and the crew isn't quite to the point where you can just take the Normandy and do your own thing. Until EDI is integrated into the ships systems just prior to the Omega 4 Relay, I don't believe she'd allow you to take the ship. She has all sorts of blocks and subroutines that could activate and do god knows what then.

Edit: Top of the page Kaidan:

Is that conspiracy theory?  I just think its good sense.
Well put.

Estelindis
I completely agree with this:
Joker and Kelly were not the people with whom I wanted Shep to discuss
Horizon.  Garrus would have been perfect.  I mean, he was friggin'
*there.*  But no, calibrations were more important!

Absolutely.
Kimbri would have talked to Joker.  But not when his sole interest was if it was going to effect the mission.

Batt
Garrus isn't exactly a "let's talk about our feelings" kinda guy. In fact, I don't really think anybody on the Normandy apart from Kelly is like that.  

Neither was Kaidan.  He kept to himself.  Did his job.  But he learned to talk to her.
Sure, Kaidan was interested, so he had motivation to do so.  But Garrus is interested in ME2 also.  He could learn.  He could at least try.
Kelly?  Ugh.  She's a Cerberus agent.  I'm not telling that little chippie anything.

[Aslanasadi]

hello everyone

@ Sapphy I agree with you...

@Estelindis I agree with you, that Ash and Samara had a kind of friendship with femshep. I liked the dialogues with Samara...

I also agee with you about Kaidan and Samara..

@ Night, this pic is for you... I though you might need it

[Jean]

What do people want them to all say though? "Sorry about Horizon, Shepard. Hey, can we stop at the Citadel so I can kill a former teammate for killing my team on Omega?"
I just can't see any relationship talking about happening with any of your crew in ME2 apart from what we got. Joker was Joker and Kelly was.. Kelly. Kelly is a bit... odd... But I can't hate her. I doubt most of the crew has ever even done anything, most of them seem to be from the Alliance and just want to stop the abductions of the humans. Ken & Gabby were especially awesome.

[Jade5233]

Batteries wrote...

What do people want them to all say though? "Sorry about Horizon, Shepard. Hey, can we stop at the Citadel so I can kill a former teammate for killing my team on Omega?"
I just can't see any relationship talking about happening with any of your crew in ME2 apart from what we got. Joker was Joker and Kelly was.. Kelly. Kelly is a bit... odd... But I can't hate her. I doubt most of the crew has ever even done anything, most of them seem to be from the Alliance and just want to stop the abductions of the humans. Ken & Gabby were especially awesome.

Garrus is her friend.  He could at least make the gesture.  He knows Shepard well enough to know that she's quite unlikely to go into a therapy session with him about it anyways.  But at least she'd feel like someone cared that she was hurting over it even if she didn't want to talk about it--that he really is there for her.  Or he could have expressed his own sense of anger or hurt over Kaidan dismissing both of them--like Sia does in Loved and Sage does in Vallhalla.

Instead, Garrus does what every other person does on the ship does to her.  Ignores that she's a person and treats her like their own personal genie in a bottle to fix their problems for them.

[Kappa Neko]

I'm German but I've only played the Engish version of ME1 and that's now the first time I head his German voice. And I gotta day, I like his English voice better, although some people seem to find his German voice sexier.



Uhm, what is Sbarge???

[Kappa Neko]

Oops, where did the youtube video go? Guess I wasn't on the most recent page. Sorry!

[syllogi]

Yeah, see, no, I still don't think that the game gave us enough of a reason to work for Cerberus, as written.



We had the video from Freedom's Progress, and Veetor's eyewitness testimony. Then we went to the Citadel, and had the Council say specifically that this was a human problem, and they wouldn't get involved.



What makes this any different from the first game, where the Council gave you the title of Spectre, but no other help? Who was backing us then? The Systems Alliance Military.



Why would Shepard automatically assume that she is completely unable to contact the Alliance? She has proof that the Collectors are taking colonies, and a kickass new ship to do her job in. Yeah, TIM had her rebuilt, and gave her the ship, but she did not ask for any of this.



The Systems Alliance may not officially work in the Traverse, but in the last game, they gave Shepard free reign to go there, and even gave her assignments out there. Considering that Kaidan is out there attempting to help the colonies, the game shows that the Alliance does care, and wants to do something.



So now Shepard has proof of what's really going on, and what does she do? Goes on missions all over the galaxy for a known terrorist, who blatantly lies to her on several occasions, leads her into a trap, withholds information, freezes the Normandy when he wants her to talk to him...



I had absolutely no power over my character, who was doing really, really stupid things, and there was no way to stop her.



What is the point of destroying the base at the end, if you feel like working with Cerberus was really the only option? What was the point of sending info about Cerberus's experimentation on the Rachni to the Alliance, if you thought that the Alliance wasn't going to help anyway, and there was no reason to go to Arcturus Station and actually talk to someone in charge about the information you've learned about the Collectors? Why not just go all in, because the only way Shepard's actions make sense through the game is if you believe in Cerberus's cause anyway.



My Shepard was not played that way in the first game, and it's ridiculous that I've been forced to play her as a pawn of a cartoonishly evil villain in the second game, with absolutely no way for me to express my frustration or give me a REAL reason as to why she doesn't contact the Alliance and share her information about the Collectors.

[Aslanasadi]

Kappa Neko wrote...

I'm German but I've only played the Engish version of ME1 and that's now the first time I head his German voice. And I gotta day, I like his English voice better, although some people seem to find his German voice sexier.

Uhm, what is Sbarge???

@ Kappa
I'm German and I prefer the english version ...I'm glad that BW chose Sbarge for voice acting Kaidan...
I think the german voice sounds too young...that is of course.. my pov...

[jillyfae]

@Teen: Sinvraal's latest chapter of Exitus, I think, did a spectacular job of showing why an Alliance-loyal, paragon style Shepard would stick with Cerberus and TIM. Obviously, this might not work for all Shepards, but it helps.

If BioWare was going to railroad us into an anti-hero plot where we have to work with Cerberus, (which really is a spectacular idea for the middle chapter of a three-part-arc), they really needed to have more opportunities for Shepard to be completely freaked out by it. They needed concrete instances of the Alliance telling her to stay away or they'd arrest her for terrorist activities (for example) so she knew she couldn't take the time to deal with the red tape and thus stayed on the Normandy.

They needed to let those Shepards who were traumatized by dying and being put back together and thrown into action with bad guys as their only allies a way to show it, just to make the story work for them. Without that connection, I agree, ME2 doesn't work at all for a lot of people, or a lot of Shepards.

[Jade5233]

Aslanasadi wrote...

Kappa Neko wrote...

I'm German but I've only played the Engish version of ME1 and that's now the first time I head his German voice. And I gotta day, I like his English voice better, although some people seem to find his German voice sexier.

Uhm, what is Sbarge???

@ Kappa
I'm German and I prefer the english version ...I'm glad that BW chose Sbarge for voice acting Kaidan...
I think the german voice sounds too young...that is of course.. my pov...

From the clip I heard on YouTube, the German voice is fine.
But nothing compares to Sbarge's voice--especially with how low and growly he does it for Kaidan.  hot
Heck.  I've started playing Republic Commando and don't care if I get injured, 'cause that means Scorch will come and patch me up.  LOL

[syllogi]

jillyfae wrote...

@Teen: Sinvraal's latest chapter of Exitus, I think, did a spectacular job of showing why an Alliance-loyal, paragon style Shepard would stick with Cerberus and TIM. Obviously, this might not work for all Shepards, but it helps.
If BioWare was going to railroad us into an anti-hero plot where we have to work with Cerberus, (which really is a spectacular idea for the middle chapter of a three-part-arc), they really needed to have more opportunities for Shepard to be completely freaked out by it. They needed concrete instances of the Alliance telling her to stay away or they'd arrest her for terrorist activities (for example) so she knew she couldn't take the time to deal with the red tape and thus stayed on the Normandy.
They needed to let those Shepards who were traumatized by dying and being put back together and thrown into action with bad guys as their only allies a way to show it, just to make the story work for them. Without that connection, I agree, ME2 doesn't work at all for a lot of people, or a lot of Shepards.

Ooh, I've missed the last few chapters of Exitus, I'll have to catch up!

Agreed with everything you're saying, it really would have made the second game easier to swallow if the writers had made it clear WHY working with Cerberus is your only choice...the Citadel scene with the Council is not sufficient at all, if you've played the first game, and understand that the Systems Alliance is separate from the Citadel Council, and have backed you in the past, even when you were spouting crazy talk about Reapers.

Imagine if we could have talked to Anderson, and he told us that the political climate in the Alliance was such that you needed to stay away?  Would a few sentences like that have been so hard to implement?  Or have Shepard express her doubts to Tali or Garrus, or even Miranda, so that we can feel like our character isn't a complete dummy and knows that she's in a very morally tenuous position...

[Aslanasadi]

TeenZombie wrote...

jillyfae wrote...

@Teen: Sinvraal's latest chapter of Exitus, I think, did a spectacular job of showing why an Alliance-loyal, paragon style Shepard would stick with Cerberus and TIM. Obviously, this might not work for all Shepards, but it helps.
If BioWare was going to railroad us into an anti-hero plot where we have to work with Cerberus, (which really is a spectacular idea for the middle chapter of a three-part-arc), they really needed to have more opportunities for Shepard to be completely freaked out by it. They needed concrete instances of the Alliance telling her to stay away or they'd arrest her for terrorist activities (for example) so she knew she couldn't take the time to deal with the red tape and thus stayed on the Normandy.
They needed to let those Shepards who were traumatized by dying and being put back together and thrown into action with bad guys as their only allies a way to show it, just to make the story work for them. Without that connection, I agree, ME2 doesn't work at all for a lot of people, or a lot of Shepards.

Ooh, I've missed the last few chapters of Exitus, I'll have to catch up!

Agreed with everything you're saying, it really would have made the second game easier to swallow if the writers had made it clear WHY working with Cerberus is your only choice...the Citadel scene with the Council is not sufficient at all, if you've played the first game, and understand that the Systems Alliance is separate from the Citadel Council, and have backed you in the past, even when you were spouting crazy talk about Reapers.

Imagine if we could have talked to Anderson, and he told us that the political climate in the Alliance was such that you needed to stay away?  Would a few sentences like that have been so hard to implement?  Or have Shepard express her doubts to Tali or Garrus, or even Miranda, so that we can feel like our character isn't a complete dummy and knows that she's in a very morally tenuous position...

ditto

[Shenzi]

Good Morning

[jillyfae]

Afternoon all... it's quiet today, yes? Have a picture.

[Sialater]

Took me awhile to catch up.  Y'all have been typing walls o' text all night, I see.

Paragon Avery's reasons for working with Cerberus is easy.  They're the only ones helping the colonists.   And I think there's enough evidence to support that in game.  The Alliance, since they now have a Councilor, can't act without the Council's say so in non-human controlled space, if I'm interpreting the rules and regs of Citadel Law properly.  Therefore, if the Council says, nope, sorry, can't help, the Alliance has to abide by that.

Meg's a Sole Survivor.  Akuze took away a great deal from her.  It took her first love and gave her a miscarriage.  (It was in a Log before they were deleted to make room for Loved.)  Also, Toombs killed the scientist AND himself, thus making her the actual Sole Survivor of Akuze.  (I went to Ontarom too damned early.)

Meghan has a hard time not getting revenge on everyone for their transgressions against her.  As an earthborn, she was conditioned to meet all threats and all actions against her with a scorched earth response.  Anderson had to talk her out of her vendetta before recruiting her for the SR-1.

So, yes, working for Cerberus is stomach-churning and at this point in Loved, the crew is still an annoyance to her and she's barely talked to anyone but Joker, Jack and Garrus.  But, she promised Anderson there would be no vengeance against those responsible for Akuze.  That doesn't, however, mean she's not biding her time, waiting for the opportunity to bring them down.  However, she suspects Cerberus never went rogue, no matter what Kahoku said.   "Private funding," my ass.

Now, given that the law is still the same, Meghan's hands are tied in with whom she works.  Yes, she can go rogue, but starships are incredibly expensive to run and even if she could find her money from her "previous life,"  it wouldn't be enough to refuel when she needs to, pay docking fees TO refuel, or get the intelligence she needs to stop the Collectors.


And because I forgot to add in Kaidan: 

Modifié par Sialater, 04 août 2010 - 03:02 .

[sagefic]

sapphyreelf wrote...


Time to don the conspiracy hat again, Sage.

This.

yup, pretty much. i can make sense of it, i can, and that's what i took to fanfic to do. my first playthrough was with a default john shep jerk. total renegade. it completely worked, too. so importing kyrie, i could make sense of her, but...sheesh, it just felt wrong. 

yes, TIM is leading all the way. i guess i find it most creepy that half the time, i completely forget about things like the UNC colony of the dead mission from me1 - then i remember, and i feel dirty for working with cerberus.

and that is why i don't blame kaidan for hating cerberus. (blame him for other things, but cheer him on for that)

[Cypher0020]

Morning Guys! Here's some clips i found



German Kaidan/Shepard







@30sec is Kaidan in French

[Brijenieve]

Hey friends, what's up?

[Cypher0020]

I dunno.... I found clips of Kaidan in german and french....



the french VA's sound better IMO