63501 réponses à ce sujet

[syllogi]

sagequeen wrote...

This.

yup, pretty much. i can make sense of it, i can, and that's what i took to fanfic to do. my first playthrough was with a default john shep jerk. total renegade. it completely worked, too. so importing kyrie, i could make sense of her, but...sheesh, it just felt wrong. 

yes, TIM is leading all the way. i guess i find it most creepy that half the time, i completely forget about things like the UNC colony of the dead mission from me1 - then i remember, and i feel dirty for working with cerberus.

and that is why i don't blame kaidan for hating cerberus. (blame him for other things, but cheer him on for that)

Here's a really interesting thread about all the evil things Cerberus has done:  http://social.biowar...5/index/3276832  Even if a few of those things are morally grey, there are quite a few that are damning all by themselves, and make it very hard to justify working for them.

My problem is that fan fic or using your imagination is *necessary* to enjoy ME2's story, which just should not be.  It's one thing to flesh out your backstory or "offscreen" moments with fan fic, but it's another when huge plot holes have to be filled by the player.

Me and Kaidan are all angsty and sad over what has happened to Shepard...

[Sialater]

So, Teen, you're saying that we're forced to work with Cerberus, but have to come up with our own reasons for doing so?

I think the thing is, the way Shepard is and the individual backgrounds we're given as choices, we HAVE to do that. A colonist would have different reasons, than say, a Sole Survivor. And a War Hero would have yet another set of reasons.

And then, Kaidan sticks to his guns and yells at all versions.

Modifié par Sialater, 04 août 2010 - 04:46 .

[syllogi]

Sialater wrote...

So, Teen, you're saying that we're forced to work with Cerberus, but have to come up with our own reasons for doing so?

I think the thing is, the way Shepard is and the individual backgrounds we're given as choices, we HAVE to do that. A colonist would have different reasons, than say, a Sole Survivor. And a War Hero would have yet another set of reasons.

And then, Kaidan sticks to his guns and yells at all versions.

Well, everyone plays their Shepard differently, and that's fine.  There's just a giant hole, at least in my opinion, in the plot when it comes to the Systems Alliance, and our inability to contact them directly, and give them information about the Collectors.  Why were we able to give them info on the Cerberus agent who had sensitive information, but not pertinent information about the colonies?  Even if Shepard believes that only Cerberus can help at this time (and that is not proven at all in the game), why not give the Alliance information that would put them on the right track?  Why can't we talk about this with Anderson, or Kaidan on Horizon? 

I can see why TIM wants to keep the Alliance in the dark in regards to the Collectors.  He has his own motives, and wants their tech.  But why does Shepard go along with him on this particular point?

People want to have it both ways, condemn Cerberus as evil, but wash their character's hands of all responsibility for working with them, when alternatives should have been available.  What proof do we have that the Alliance didn't rebuild the Normandy themselves in the past two years?  If they had no problem with sending people in into the Terminus System before when the situation called for it, why would it be completely impossible now? 

Instead of being given concrete reasons why Shepard is or is not in the wrong for joining Cerberus, we're left with nothing in the story to even hint at motivation.  Why would a character who was at Akuze never mention it?  And on and on, with blank spaces in the story where motivation should be...

Anyway, all of this is going back to Horizon, and whether Kaidan was right to yell at Shepard, and whether Shepard was right to have nothing to say...again, the story just doesn't cover the pertinent information we need to come to a conclusion.

[Sialater]

TeenZombie wrote...

Sialater wrote...

So, Teen, you're saying that we're forced to work with Cerberus, but have to come up with our own reasons for doing so?

I think the thing is, the way Shepard is and the individual backgrounds we're given as choices, we HAVE to do that. A colonist would have different reasons, than say, a Sole Survivor. And a War Hero would have yet another set of reasons.

And then, Kaidan sticks to his guns and yells at all versions.

Well, everyone plays their Shepard differently, and that's fine.  There's just a giant hole, at least in my opinion, in the plot when it comes to the Systems Alliance, and our inability to contact them directly, and give them information about the Collectors.  Why were we able to give them info on the Cerberus agent who had sensitive information, but not pertinent information about the colonies?  Even if Shepard believes that only Cerberus can help at this time (and that is not proven at all in the game), why not give the Alliance information that would put them on the right track?  Why can't we talk about this with Anderson, or Kaidan on Horizon? 

I can see why TIM wants to keep the Alliance in the dark in regards to the Collectors.  He has his own motives, and wants their tech.  But why does Shepard go along with him on this particular point?

People want to have it both ways, condemn Cerberus as evil, but wash their character's hands of all responsibility for working with them, when alternatives should have been available.  What proof do we have that the Alliance didn't rebuild the Normandy themselves in the past two years?  If they had no problem with sending people in into the Terminus System before when the situation called for it, why would it be completely impossible now? 

Instead of being given concrete reasons why Shepard is or is not in the wrong for joining Cerberus, we're left with nothing in the story to even hint at motivation.  Why would a character who was at Akuze never mention it?  And on and on, with blank spaces in the story where motivation should be...

Anyway, all of this is going back to Horizon, and whether Kaidan was right to yell at Shepard, and whether Shepard was right to have nothing to say...again, the story just doesn't cover the pertinent information we need to come to a conclusion.

Well, that plothole is one of the reasons I'm writing Loved.   But, the Alliance never "sent people" into the Terminus systems.  The Normandy's shakedown run was still within Citadel Space, just on the EDGE of the Terminus.  The only ship that goes into the Terminus is Shepard's stealth capable Normandy. 

Kaidan isn't even there officially.

[Sialater]

Sorry, didn't mean to kill the thread. I promise I'll argue with Teen elsewhere.



Have a Trio:

[sagefic]

Sialater wrote...

So, Teen, you're saying that we're forced to work with Cerberus, but have to come up with our own reasons for doing so?

I think the thing is, the way Shepard is and the individual backgrounds we're given as choices, we HAVE to do that. A colonist would have different reasons, than say, a Sole Survivor. And a War Hero would have yet another set of reasons.

And then, Kaidan sticks to his guns and yells at all versions.

true!

yeah. and this is why i could not play a sole survivor spacer. i just couldn't. she would have gone off and bought her own ship rather than work with cerberus. end of story. and i think it was a weakness that me1gave me enough to go on to think that of her, but then me2 just couldn't accomodate such a character.

oh well. this is why it took me so long to settle on a main: a character who could be the same from me1 to me2.

[Sialater]

sagequeen wrote...

Sialater wrote...

So, Teen, you're saying that we're forced to work with Cerberus, but have to come up with our own reasons for doing so?

I think the thing is, the way Shepard is and the individual backgrounds we're given as choices, we HAVE to do that. A colonist would have different reasons, than say, a Sole Survivor. And a War Hero would have yet another set of reasons.

And then, Kaidan sticks to his guns and yells at all versions.

true!

yeah. and this is why i could not play a sole survivor spacer. i just couldn't. she would have gone off and bought her own ship rather than work with cerberus. end of story. and i think it was a weakness that me1gave me enough to go on to think that of her, but then me2 just couldn't accomodate such a character.

oh well. this is why it took me so long to settle on a main: a character who could be the same from me1 to me2.

LOL, I'll need to tell you how it's possible for a Sole Survivor to work with Cerberus.

[syllogi]

Sialater wrote...

Sorry, didn't mean to kill the thread. I promise I'll argue with Teen elsewhere.

Aww, I hope we're not scaring people away.  And we're debating, not arguing, it's completely different!    Maybe this is just one of those quiet days.  Anyway, here's to lightening the mood:

Modifié par TeenZombie, 04 août 2010 - 06:21 .

[sagefic]

Sialater wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

Sialater wrote...

So, Teen, you're saying that we're forced to work with Cerberus, but have to come up with our own reasons for doing so?

I think the thing is, the way Shepard is and the individual backgrounds we're given as choices, we HAVE to do that. A colonist would have different reasons, than say, a Sole Survivor. And a War Hero would have yet another set of reasons.

And then, Kaidan sticks to his guns and yells at all versions.

true!

yeah. and this is why i could not play a sole survivor spacer. i just couldn't. she would have gone off and bought her own ship rather than work with cerberus. end of story. and i think it was a weakness that me1gave me enough to go on to think that of her, but then me2 just couldn't accomodate such a character.

oh well. this is why it took me so long to settle on a main: a character who could be the same from me1 to me2.

LOL, I'll need to tell you how it's possible for a Sole Survivor to work with Cerberus.

mine couldn't. but imo, she was scarcely stable enough to make it to the end of me2 anyhow. that thread, though, was interesting. should probably take this discussion there.

on topic:

[Sialater]

TeenZombie wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Sorry, didn't mean to kill the thread. I promise I'll argue with Teen elsewhere.

Aww, I hope we're not scaring people away.  And we're debating, not arguing, it's completely different!    Maybe this is just one of those quiet days.  Anyway, here's to lighten the mood:

Yes, we were debating.  Gently and rationally... Kaidan would be proud of us.

[Aslanasadi]

Sialater wrote...

Sorry, didn't mean to kill the thread. I promise I'll argue with Teen elsewhere.

Have a Trio:

This got my attention 
I'm lurking around here, but atm I work on my assignments in ME1... that means spending a lot of time with Kaidan
We are discussing Cerberus, but what would you think about the Alliance... I think about Kasumi's data pad...As far as I remember it had some information on it, which could really get the Alliance in trouble (I hope I remember it right)... And how would Kaidan take it....if this informations are telling really awful things about the Alliance...
Maybe it's a stupid question, because as the way I believe to know him, it would hit him hard and his faith would be lost... I just wonder if he'll he stay in the Alliance ... And I'm wondering if this information are telling that Cerberus and the Alliance are still working together....
So and now I have to fly to my next assignment:D

[FireEye]

Sialater wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

true!

yeah. and this is why i could not play a sole survivor spacer. i just couldn't. she would have gone off and bought her own ship rather than work with cerberus. end of story. and i think it was a weakness that me1gave me enough to go on to think that of her, but then me2 just couldn't accomodate such a character.

oh well. this is why it took me so long to settle on a main: a character who could be the same from me1 to me2.

LOL, I'll need to tell you how it's possible for a Sole Survivor to work with Cerberus.

I only had a Sole Survivor for import.  Hearing her various  in-mind reactions over the course of the game was greatly amusing, but had we ULTIMATE FREEDOM in terms of roleplaying, she would have shot herself immediately after she understood the scope of what was going on (Probably right after Freedom's Progress).  (Although in her opinion, if she's the only thing standing between the Reapers and the rest of the Galaxy, then pershaps the Galaxy is too stupid to live - Kaidan is supposed to be dealing with it anyway.)

Granted, a hole in the skull is probably easier to fix than long term space exposure and all of that, and Cerberus would probably have been simply annoyed with her rather than "Oh, no - end of the world!" but still. 



Ashley would not approve of suicide, yet Kaidan does not approve of working with Cerberus.  My Shepard is screwed.  XD

Modifié par FireEye, 04 août 2010 - 07:04 .

[siriusrambles]

stern-looking kaidan   (i'm swiping this screenshot.)

i'm annoyed with my sheps in me2.  my feelings mirrored kaidan's and i have yet to forgive their radical shift in personality.

Modifié par siriusrambles, 04 août 2010 - 07:15 .

[UrbanPhoenix]

hey i just read a fanfic that brought up an interesting concept....there are a lot of biotics on Shepard's ME2 team....maybe that's why they didn't bring in Kaidan...

[Brijenieve]

So.... I'm working on Scuttlebutt again. I'm sorry it's taken so long; my muse left me for quite some time... but I think she is back. SO I am hoping to get an update on that to you guys soon! In the meantime, I have been hosting and adding new fics to the Writer's Block, including a sweet ME/Guild Wars cross-over that's in progress. Also, there's a new poll up for voting, another Shenko Random Stupidity from Sesheta, and I'm slowly but surely posting the Blastette fic as well.

Guild Effect: http://writersblockf...-chapter-1.html
Random stupidity: http://writersblockf...by-sesheta.html
The Writer's Block: http://writersblockf...n.blogspot.com/

Let me know if you would like me to link you, your fic, your art, whatever. I am also happy to host full fics and art, etc, restriction free. 

Installation 3 of Scuttlebutt coming soon!

*/end shameless fanfic promotion

Modifié par Brijenieve, 04 août 2010 - 07:54 .

[Sialater]

Heya, Brij.  I haven't forgotten, I still owe you The Rescue. (Now with more unedited Zevran!)

Modifié par Sialater, 04 août 2010 - 07:59 .

[syllogi]

UrbanPhoenix wrote...

hey i just read a fanfic that brought up an interesting concept....there are a lot of biotics on Shepard's ME2 team....maybe that's why they didn't bring in Kaidan...

That might be a factor, but since Kaidan has to be interchangeable with Ashley, I don't think that was the main motivation of the devs when choosing who to bring aboard in ME2. 

I think the reasons Casey Hudson gave are pretty much it; they didn't want Liara and the Virmire Survivor to possibly die in this installment, combined with instilling drama into the romances and/or also wanting fresh new characters to play with.  Of course, we have to wonder how they'll handle that last bit in the last game, since fans of both game's characters will come after the devs with pitchforks and torches if the squad is completely new in ME3...

[syllogi]

Live, thread, live!!!

[Brijenieve]

Oh man, I don't think I'd seen that pic before! 

Modifié par Brijenieve, 04 août 2010 - 09:33 .

[JaerWolfe]

Sialater wrote...

snip



Kaidan isn't even there officially.

What is this comment based on? From my admittedly vague memories of Horizon, doesn't someone say he's there as part of an Alliance Outreach program? Also he brought some Alliance BFGs...that I can't remember the real name of...that pound the Collector ship pretty fierce. All of that speaks pretty much as 'official'. He even says he's still with the Alliance and everyone calls him the Alliance 'Rep'.

I'm not questioning the statement so much as the BW writers logic behind having him in the Terminous Systems in any capacity.

[sagefic]

argh....sapphy. what did you do to me? okay, she's not around, but thanks to her i want to go back and tweak stuff i wrote ages ago. *curses!*

[Sialater]

JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...
snip

Kaidan isn't even there officially.

What is this comment based on? From my admittedly vague memories of Horizon, doesn't someone say he's there as part of an Alliance Outreach program? Also he brought some Alliance BFGs...that I can't remember the real name of...that pound the Collector ship pretty fierce. All of that speaks pretty much as 'official'. He even says he's still with the Alliance and everyone calls him the Alliance 'Rep'.
I'm not questioning the statement so much as the BW writers logic behind having him in the Terminous Systems in any capacity.

You're right.  Should have said something like he's purposefully a small presence in order for the assistance to remain unnoticed.

[sagefic]

JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...
snip

Kaidan isn't even there officially.

What is this comment based on? From my admittedly vague memories of Horizon, doesn't someone say he's there as part of an Alliance Outreach program? Also he brought some Alliance BFGs...that I can't remember the real name of...that pound the Collector ship pretty fierce. All of that speaks pretty much as 'official'. He even says he's still with the Alliance and everyone calls him the Alliance 'Rep'.
I'm not questioning the statement so much as the BW writers logic behind having him in the Terminous Systems in any capacity.

i took it that kaidan is unofficially in the terminus because 1) he's secretly supposed to get intel on cerberus and 2) who is paying for those GARDIAN lasers? the colonists? no way. the alliance is paying for those bad boys and they can't be cheap. i bet tax paying citizens on earth would be pissed to hear about that one. so i take it that yes, he's out there as an alliance rep, but it's on the hush hush so no one gets angry about the political fallout. it's bad if human colonies go missing, cause then people with think humanity is weak. but the colonists went out into dangerous places to get away from the alliance, so clearly they're not paying for those lasers. my take, anyhow.

[JaerWolfe]

Sialater wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...
snip

Kaidan isn't even there officially.

What is this comment based on? From my admittedly vague memories of Horizon, doesn't someone say he's there as part of an Alliance Outreach program? Also he brought some Alliance BFGs...that I can't remember the real name of...that pound the Collector ship pretty fierce. All of that speaks pretty much as 'official'. He even says he's still with the Alliance and everyone calls him the Alliance 'Rep'.
I'm not questioning the statement so much as the BW writers logic behind having him in the Terminous Systems in any capacity.

You're right.  Should have said something like he's purposefully a small presence in order for the assistance to remain unnoticed.

Which speaks volumes to Kaidan's abilities they would send him into a borderline hostile colony without any Alliance backup of any kind. That we see, anyway.

sagequeen wrote...

i took it that kaidan is unofficially in the terminus because 1) he's secretly supposed to get intel on cerberus and 2) who is paying for those GARDIAN lasers? the colonists? no way. the alliance is paying for those bad boys and they can't be cheap. i bet tax paying citizens on earth would be pissed to hear about that one. so i take it that yes, he's out there as an alliance rep, but it's on the hush hush so no one gets angry about the political fallout. it's bad if human colonies go missing, cause then people with think humanity is weak. but the colonists went out into dangerous places to get away from the alliance, so clearly they're not paying for those lasers. my take, anyhow.

1) Which speaks volumes to Kaidan's lack of subtlety and skill in subterfuge if he's meant to be there secretly, he doesn't do a very good job of hiding who he is, lol. Which is totally in character for him.
2) Actually I can see the corporations funding the colony as being major backers for the guns. They would want to see their interests protected and since the Alliance can't do it with military strength, they'll go to an 'Outreach Program'.

[NICKjnp]

sagequeen wrote...

Poor "Leeroy" Jenkins.... he had a target painted on him from the get go.