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[Jade5233]

siriusrambles wrote...

Jade5233 wrote...
I think I have an embryology textbook at work somewhere and I'll think about it tomorrow if I have a chance.  But I'd say bad effects are more likely as the nervous system is in rapid development--that it would cause more mutation than if the neuro system is more-or-less developed and then the eezo imbeds itself into it.  Does that make sense?  I'll postulate weeks of development later.

are you saying it was likely he was exposed in the womb near the end of the pregnancy since his side effects were mild?

Kinda.  Not necessarily at the end of pregnancy, but not in the formation of the neurologic system stage.
With birth defects, they tend to be more pronounced/severe with earlier stages of developement in general.
So with something that is carcinogenic, I would think that an earlier stage of developement would have more devastating effects.
Just a theory based on real world embryology/prenatal stuff.

EDIT:  need a photo

Gosh he's sexy on Horizon.

Modifié par Jade5233, 19 août 2010 - 02:43 .

[siriusrambles]

my knowledge on the gestation period is limited. at what point do you think the effects would be less severe?

[Jade5233]

siriusrambles wrote...

my knowledge on the gestation period is limited. at what point do you think the effects would be less severe?

I don't know.  I'll have to look in my text books at work tomorrow.  Brain too tired today from very long after work meeting today (5 hours!  4p-9p! Agh!)

[FireEye]

I was thinking it might be analogous to the flood of testosterone in males.  But I'm interested to see what you come up with. 

[siriusrambles]

i'll save my questions for tomorrow. thanks for delving deeper into this subject. i've always been interested in this topic.

[sagefic]

well, since biotics are basically people with mutated nodes in their nervous systems, of which said nodes basically allow them to translate electrical impulses into dark matter manipulation, wouldn't it be at whatever point the central nervous system develops? And that's pretty early in a pregnancy, if memory serves. just thinking out loud here.

[NICKjnp]

Unless it is secondary exposure like Shepard (who was exposed at age 16).

[fortunesque]

sagequeen wrote...

well, since biotics are basically people with mutated nodes in their nervous systems, of which said nodes basically allow them to translate electrical impulses into dark matter manipulation, wouldn't it be at whatever point the central nervous system develops? And that's pretty early in a pregnancy, if memory serves. just thinking out loud here.

Unless maybe a few nodes changed then the whole system got rewired? Maybe that's where the cancer came from in a lot of them.

I'm just throwing other ideas out there too since I'm a non-sciencey art student... 

Edit: Also, Nick's idea about secondary exposure is a good guess as well

Modifié par fortunesque, 19 août 2010 - 05:17 .

[sagefic]

 i thought you had to get both primary and secondary exposure... so...yeah. not a science student. and since this is sort of magic sci-fi science... dunno. 

either way, is hot:



i so miss those old-style barriers in me2 and 3.

oh, and fix'd new chapter which was missing part of the end. (dur)

[sapphyreelf]

Where are you guys seeing that people need to be exposed twice to eezo?

I've only ever seen it referenced on the timeline on the wiki, and it never made sense to me when I've not seen anythingi in game to support that. Also, there is a line in the timeline the same year Shepard is born that suggests that there was another accident akin to the Singapore incident that could explain Shepard's initial exposure.

[Jade5233]

NICKjnp wrote...

Unless it is secondary exposure like Shepard (who was exposed at age 16).

There is a "two hit" hypothesis in some cancers--an eye cancer in particular.  Where you have a mutated gene (1st hit) and then some environmental exposure (2nd hit).  Shepard's case could be something like that.

Sage
well, since biotics are basically people with mutated nodes in their nervous systems, of which said nodes basically allow them to translate electrical impulses into dark matter manipulation, wouldn't it be at whatever point the central nervous system develops? And that's pretty early in a pregnancy, if memory serves. just thinking out loud here.

Well, technically, the nervous system is in a continual state of developement until the early to mid twenties.  That's why T-ball kids can track the ball coming to them and then miss catching it completely--there are bare spots on the nerves and conduction in those areas are slow until the bare spots are all filled in.
Wonder why teenagers do impulsive things without thinking about them?  Even honors students?  The pre-frontal lobe of the brain which controls planning of actions before they happen isn't done with development until the twenties.
So, Kaidan not quite knowing what made him jump up to defend Rhana?  Partially because of this decreased pre-planning ability due to his age.  The rest, just the wonderful chivalrous guy he is. 

[jillyfae]

I've seen the secondary exposure theory to justify Shepard getting implants later than usual, and thus qualifying for the L3. I've never seen where that theory came from via in-game or developer information though. So ... no idea.

And yes, it says a lot about Kaidan that his version of typical teenager impulsive behavior was trying to protect someone against overwhelming odds. (My versions of stupid teenager impulsive behavior usually involved staying up all night or ditching class or work at the last minute. ^_~)

[Jade5233]

sapphyreelf wrote...

Where are you guys seeing that people need to be exposed twice to eezo?
I've only ever seen it referenced on the timeline on the wiki, and it never made sense to me when I've not seen anythingi in game to support that. Also, there is a line in the timeline the same year Shepard is born that suggests that there was another accident akin to the Singapore incident that could explain Shepard's initial exposure.

I skimmed the discussion part of that wiki entry.  I can't find any reference to where that comes from.  Perhaps someone on the femShep thread would know.  I'll ask there.

[Sialater]

I've never seen any indication of a necessary secondary exposure, either. And we've done as much research as possible for our AU collaboration. If we missed something, we really need to know.

[syllogi]

Shepard was definitely exposed to eezo twice, once in utero and once when he/she was 14 years old. Kaidan did not need the second exposure, apparently. Here's the timeline on the Biotics talk page of the wiki: http://masseffect.wi...ki/Talk:Biotics The user Stormwaltz is Chris L'Etoile, so unless they've changed canon since ME1, this should be accurate.

[Sialater]

TeenZombie wrote...

Shepard was definitely exposed to eezo twice, once in utero and once when he/she was 14 years old. Kaidan did not need the second exposure, apparently. Here's the timeline on the Biotics talk page of the wiki: http://masseffect.wi...ki/Talk:Biotics The user Stormwaltz is Chris L'Etoile, so unless they've changed canon since ME1, this should be accurate.

Who's Chris L'Etoile? And there's no event listed that would have explained the secondary exposure thing.  All it says is this:

2168 - Shepard, 14 years old, received secondary exposure to element zero. Permanent biotic inclination manifests.

 

[syllogi]

Chris L'Etoile was one of the writers on ME1, who also wrote for ME2, but left Bioware midway through the project. Here's his userpage on the wiki, with info on the characters and missions he wrote: http://masseffect.wi...User:Stormwaltz

[Sialater]

But he didn't write for Kaidan or any of the biotic plots, if I'm reading that right.



(I just don't trust Wikis for anything that's speculation.)

[Jade5233]

Okay.  Looking up cancer risk during pregnancy.
The risk is the largest for the neuro system during the first 5-8 weeks of pregnancy.  It decreases after the 5th-8th week of gestation, but still has a high risk of developing cancer due to high rate of growth of nerve cells throughout pregnancy.

For any potetial teratogen, the extent and nature of its effects are determined by characteristics of the host as well as the dose and timing of the exposure...Organ systems are most vulnerable during periods of maximum growth and differentiation, generally during the first trimester.
-Nelson Textbook of Pediatrics

So it was unlikely that his mother was early in her pregnancy.  She probably was at least 2 months along.  Doesn't narrow the timing down too much.

[Sialater]

Sooo.... second trimester exposure?

[syllogi]

Sialater wrote...

But he didn't write for Kaidan or any of the biotic plots, if I'm reading that right.

(I just don't trust Wikis for anything that's speculation.)

Well, writing all of the ingame Codex entries for ME1 would at least give him insight into the design documents all the writers had to use.  I'm sure they had to be deliberately vague about the specifics of Shepard's biotics, since it's possible to play a Shepard who was never exposed at all.  I wish ME writers would visit these forums, it would be so nice to get further perspective on this stuff.

Modifié par TeenZombie, 19 août 2010 - 02:56 .

[Sialater]

TeenZombie wrote...

Sialater wrote...

But he didn't write for Kaidan or any of the biotic plots, if I'm reading that right.

(I just don't trust Wikis for anything that's speculation.)

Well, writing all of the ingame Codex entries for ME1 would at least give him insight into the design documents all the writers had to use.  I'm sure they had to be deliberately vague about the specifics of Shepard's biotics, since it's possible to play a Shepard who was never exposed at all.  I wish ME writers would visit these forums, it would be so nice to get further perspective on this stuff.

I completely agree with you on that.  They really need to nail down the specifics of Biotic Shepard's exposure and explaine why we weren't at BAaT.   I mean, is it really that difficult to add it to the background specific entry of THREE different Shepards, which is HALF the available skill sets?

[Jade5233]

Sialater wrote...

Sooo.... second trimester exposure?

Or third.

That's not to say that other exposed children had to be in 1st trimester in order to develop cancer.  it would depend on what other environmental influences there are and the genetics of the individual.

Kaidan's father was in the Alliance so perhaps he had some gene modifications that would have been passed on to Kaidan then that made him more resilient than children without military parents.

[Jade5233]

Sialater wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Sialater wrote...

But he didn't write for Kaidan or any of the biotic plots, if I'm reading that right.

(I just don't trust Wikis for anything that's speculation.)

Well, writing all of the ingame Codex entries for ME1 would at least give him insight into the design documents all the writers had to use.  I'm sure they had to be deliberately vague about the specifics of Shepard's biotics, since it's possible to play a Shepard who was never exposed at all.  I wish ME writers would visit these forums, it would be so nice to get further perspective on this stuff.

I completely agree with you on that.  They really need to nail down the specifics of Biotic Shepard's exposure and explaine why we weren't at BAaT.   I mean, is it really that difficult to add it to the background specific entry of THREE different Shepards, which is HALF the available skill sets?

It says that the biotics manifest more at puberty.   His biotics didn't require a "second hit" like hers did to fully manifest.  We know that she is two years younger and I think we determined amongst ourselves that he might have gone to BAaT when he was around 14.  She would have been 12 and didn't have her second exposure until she was 14.  So he woud have been noticed earlier in his life.  By the time that she has the second exposure it was the same year that Kaidan killed Tyrnnus.  By the time her full biotics would show and the men in black would show up at the door then getting out to Jump Zero, etc, Kaidan had probably already had his incident.

There's also the possibility that Shepard could have been a "late bloomer" and not hit puberty until 16 or so and hence her biotic abilities would have been further masked--which would fit in with the whole Mindoir timeline.