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Kaidan Alenko Support Thread Part 2


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#55351
Chignon

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Sialater wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Chignon wrote...

I never heard of this theory. I'm curious.

Where does Cerberus going rogue or not from the Alliance play into the Alliance also doing something to investigate and protect the colonists? I mean, I can see why if Cerberus didn't go rogue. But if it didn't?
A political and military contruct as influential and powerful as the Alliance won't always stick to the rules, in my opinion. But this doesn't necessarily mean that Cerberus is still a part of them and is financed by them.



Kahoku claims they've gone rogue from the Alliance in ME1.  But he's the only evidence you get for that assertion.  Not to disparage the deceased, but the man was killed and in a way that makes absolutely no sense to me unless Cerberus was a) a bunch of psychopaths (certainly possible) B) covering up its Alliance connection.  I'll have to replay the missions with Rachel Shepard to be absolutely certain there is no other evidence, but I really don't remember any.

Miranda says Cerberus is, "privately funded."  The Alliance could very well be one of those private investors. 

Anderson is entirely non-plussed by your sudden appearance from the dead, his email is also waiting for you when you get your ship.  The human coucilor is a powerful individual, but no one , not even Udina, reacts to your resurrection appropriately.  No one registers surprise.  (I'm not going to touch Tali & Garrus & the VS's lack thereof in this post.)   And all he does is go silent on Kaidan's activities.  He doesn't arrest you, certainly within his power, his belief in the Reapers not-with-standing.  He doesn't give you another out, which when you regain your Spectre status, is certainly within his purview as well, he just pats you on your head and sends you on your way.

Then... the most telling part.  TIM claims that he can't tell you where Kaidan is because his file has been rendered "blacker than black ops," if I'm remembering the quote correctly.  Yet, TIM finds out about his presence on Horizon quickly enough to arrange the little demonstration for Shepard.  While it's certainly possible TIM is lying about not knowing anything about Kaidan's whereabouts, the fact that he even knows that Kaidan's got that kind of security around his file is in an indication of very high-up contacts, or collusion within the Alliance itself.

Finally:  it's Martin Sheen.  They're not going to waste that kind of coin on a VA without something major planned, and being a Bond villain is certainly below Sheen's talents.

It's all circumstantial evidence... but that's all we have: conjecture and supposition.  From what I've heard about the books (which I should really get one of these days), there's even more small clues to the connection.


Oh!  I also forgot Jack.  Jack is possibly the biggest indicator of Cerberus still being Alliance, period.  When Jack was being experimented on, Cerberus was still Alliance.    After all, Kahoku was surprised to find that Cerberus had possibly gone rogue only two years ago.  And Jack is obviously much older than that.  The scientists who survived the insurrection of the patients possibly joined The Ascension Program, BAaT's successor. 

The Alliance is responsible for the mess that is Jack, ultimately.


Thank you so much for taking the time to explain everything so thoroughly! It would certainly make a lot of sense.

Modifié par Chignon, 03 septembre 2010 - 05:33 .


#55352
Jean

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sagequeen wrote...

totally.

AND let's not forget TIM's blatant lie right alongside his info about kaidan. in one breath he tells you kaidan's file is "surprisingly well classified." - then he tells you "my sources say she [liara] is working for the shadow broker. if so, she can't be trusted."

i mean right there, total lie. he had to know she was on illium and he had to know she wasn't with the SB. first time he said that, i believed him. but after finishing the game once and reading REdemption, i went back and heard that little piece and was like - omg! you LIE!

so yeah. i don't trust anything the man says. he's deliberately playing everyone. 


He just said that Kaidan's file was well classified and I'm sure it is, especially if he's working for Anderson, like a lot of people suspect. I haven't read Redemption, so I don't know about the Liara part. But as I play through the game, his lying seems to work. Shep got stuff done - ass on the line or no - but she got stuff done. It's a unique style that seems to work for him. I find it entertaining as a player though. I'd wish I could have my Shepard play like that, but alas. I get to be the one that keeps getting played. I can't help but love the character.

#55353
Sialater

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You're welcome.  I'm going to try to put my evidence in Loved, but I obviously can't mention Martin Sheen.  :D

#55354
Sialater

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Batteries wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

totally.

AND let's not forget TIM's blatant lie right alongside his info about kaidan. in one breath he tells you kaidan's file is "surprisingly well classified." - then he tells you "my sources say she [liara] is working for the shadow broker. if so, she can't be trusted."

i mean right there, total lie. he had to know she was on illium and he had to know she wasn't with the SB. first time he said that, i believed him. but after finishing the game once and reading REdemption, i went back and heard that little piece and was like - omg! you LIE!

so yeah. i don't trust anything the man says. he's deliberately playing everyone. 


He just said that Kaidan's file was well classified and I'm sure it is, especially if he's working for Anderson, like a lot of people suspect. I haven't read Redemption, so I don't know about the Liara part. But as I play through the game, his lying seems to work. Shep got stuff done - ass on the line or no - but she got stuff done. It's a unique style that seems to work for him. I find it entertaining as a player though. I'd wish I could have my Shepard play like that, but alas. I get to be the one that keeps getting played. I can't help but love the character.


He's definitely a well-done Machiavellian character, but his very duplicity makes the Cerberus/Alliance connection that much more solid to me.  After all, Shepard is currently the Cassandra of the Alliance.  She's warning people about the Trojan Horse in the town square and no one's listening.  He doesn't HAVE to play her like he does unless there's a bigger game he's hiding.

#55355
Jean

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Sialater wrote...

Batteries wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

totally.

AND let's not forget TIM's blatant lie right alongside his info about kaidan. in one breath he tells you kaidan's file is "surprisingly well classified." - then he tells you "my sources say she [liara] is working for the shadow broker. if so, she can't be trusted."

i mean right there, total lie. he had to know she was on illium and he had to know she wasn't with the SB. first time he said that, i believed him. but after finishing the game once and reading REdemption, i went back and heard that little piece and was like - omg! you LIE!

so yeah. i don't trust anything the man says. he's deliberately playing everyone. 


He just said that Kaidan's file was well classified and I'm sure it is, especially if he's working for Anderson, like a lot of people suspect. I haven't read Redemption, so I don't know about the Liara part. But as I play through the game, his lying seems to work. Shep got stuff done - ass on the line or no - but she got stuff done. It's a unique style that seems to work for him. I find it entertaining as a player though. I'd wish I could have my Shepard play like that, but alas. I get to be the one that keeps getting played. I can't help but love the character.


He's definitely a well-done Machiavellian character, but his very duplicity makes the Cerberus/Alliance connection that much more solid to me.  After all, Shepard is currently the Cassandra of the Alliance.  She's warning people about the Trojan Horse in the town square and no one's listening.  He doesn't HAVE to play her like he does unless there's a bigger game he's hiding.


I am pretty sure that Anderson is playing the same exact game. Motives are too cloudy to see at the moment.

#55356
Sialater

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I completely agree with you, Batt. Anderson's a cagey old man. ;)

#55357
Jean

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But then we always forget about Udina. Man's gotta have some sort of questionable involvement.
:bandit:

#55358
JaerWolfe

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Am I in the right thread?



And all of those points are shoddy writing, not evidence of a conspiracy. Cerberus is toxic politically for the Alliance. There will be no formal ties and anything 'black ops' would be easily killed. Funding would not happen. There are a lot of other threads that discuss this, though, and it should be taken there.

#55359
Quaay

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Nooooo not Anderson! If he breaks my trust I will go bat**** crazy!

....although he does have that Kaidan pic on his desk so that does make him shady...

:P

Posted Image

The page needed a Kaidan pic :)

Modifié par Quaay, 03 septembre 2010 - 06:01 .


#55360
Sialater

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I never forget about Udina. Though I'm fairly certain he's a red herring.

#55361
Sialater

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JaerWolfe wrote...

Am I in the right thread?

And all of those points are shoddy writing, not evidence of a conspiracy. Cerberus is toxic politically for the Alliance. There will be no formal ties and anything 'black ops' would be easily killed. Funding would not happen. There are a lot of other threads that discuss this, though, and it should be taken there.


If the conspiracy doesn't play out, it's bad writing because of all the crappy loose ends.   We won't know till 3.

It was brought up here because of the Kaidan/Horizon connection, Jaer.

#55362
JaerWolfe

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Sialater wrote...

It was brought up here because of the Kaidan/Horizon connection, Jaer.


Then it should have stayed on the Kaidan/Horizon connection, Sia.

Modifié par JaerWolfe, 03 septembre 2010 - 05:56 .


#55363
Guest_Brodyaha_*

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In short: might agree with Batteries and Sialater.

Anderson is played out as a great character in the Revelation, and in the game, but I do wonder if BioWare hints how far he can put aside people's personal matters for the greater good.

Example: He was telling me about how Nihlus was judging my candidacy for the Spectres. I said, "what if I refuse?" Anderson chastized me and told me, "This isn't just about you, Shepard! It's for the good of humanity!" Essentially, my opinion on being a Spectre didn't matter.

Anderson can also rush to judgement. Remember his declaration that Saren was using the geth and the beacon's knowledge to eliminate the entire human race? Turns out Saren was using the Reapers to help their goals to subdue all galactic races, but I feel Anderson jumped to conclusions a bit too soon.

I admittedly haven't finished all of Retribution (haven't been able to get back into it), but I'll see if there's clues to Anderson's knowledge about Cerberus.

Furthermore, he stonewalls Kaidan regarding information about Shepard. He knows something about duplicity.

If he truly doesn't know about Cerberus' motives, who knows: Liara might've told Anderson about reclaiming Shepard's body. She might've been keeping him up to date if she's an information broker. Might explain his lack of surprise at Shepard's resurrection. But then that wouldn't make sense because he knows Shepard wouldn't be working for Cerberus willingly. Hmmmm....

But anyways....back to Kaidan.  I wonder if Liara will mention anything about him in the upcoming DLC.

Modifié par Brodyaha, 03 septembre 2010 - 05:58 .


#55364
Chignon

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Sialater wrote...

You're welcome.  I'm going to try to put my evidence in Loved, but I obviously can't mention Martin Sheen.  :D


Heh, a shame, it's such a good point! Posted Image

#55365
Sialater

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JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...

It was brought up here because of the Kaidan/Horizon connection, Jaer.


Then it should have stayed on the Kaidan/Horizon connection, Sia.



You're right.  Would a Kaidan make you feel better?  :D

Posted Image

#55366
Quaay

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Oh I hope Liara does mention him in the DLC...or at least ask about him...something, anything. I think we've all learned not to get our hopes up though.

#55367
JaerWolfe

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Sialater wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...

It was brought up here because of the Kaidan/Horizon connection, Jaer.


Then it should have stayed on the Kaidan/Horizon connection, Sia.



You're right.  Would a Kaidan make you feel better?  :D


You're not supposed to agree with me, you're supposed to start a flamewar and help me alleviate all this pent up fangirl rage I have boiling inside from the lack of Kaidan in ME2.

Geez, you don't even play the game well. Posted ImagePosted Image

#55368
Jean

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Brodyaha wrote...

In short: might agree with Batteries and Sialater.

Anderson is played out as a great character in the Revelation, and in the game, but I do wonder if BioWare hints how far he can put aside people's personal matters for the greater good.

Example: He was telling me about how Nihlus was judging my candidacy for the Spectres. I said, "what if I refuse?" Anderson chastized me and told me, "This isn't just about you, Shepard! It's for the good of humanity!" Essentially, my opinion on being a Spectre didn't matter.

Anderson can also rush to judgement. Remember his declaration that Saren was using the geth and the beacon's knowledge to eliminate the entire human race? Turns out Saren was using the Reapers to help their goals to subdue all galactic races, but I feel Anderson jumped to conclusions a bit too soon.

I admittedly haven't finished all of Retribution (haven't been able to get back into it), but I'll see if there's clues to Anderson's knowledge about Cerberus.

Furthermore, he stonewalls Kaidan regarding information about Shepard. He knows something about duplicity.

If he truly doesn't know about Cerberus' motives, who knows: Liara might've told Anderson about reclaiming Shepard's body. She might've been keeping him up to date if she's an information broker. Might explain his lack of surprise at Shepard's resurrection. But then that wouldn't make sense because he knows Shepard wouldn't be working for Cerberus willingly. Hmmmm....

But anyways....back to Kaidan.  I wonder if Liara will mention anything about him in the upcoming DLC.


Shepard's opinion never matters when it comes to essential plot :P It only matters when you drastically change the course of your teammates lives!
I do doubt it, but who knows. It doesn't feel like if she, does circumstances will be right or it'd be weird to suddently say anything about him or Ash.

#55369
Sialater

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JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...

It was brought up here because of the Kaidan/Horizon connection, Jaer.


Then it should have stayed on the Kaidan/Horizon connection, Sia.



You're right.  Would a Kaidan make you feel better?  :D


You're not supposed to agree with me, you're supposed to start a flamewar and help me alleviate all this pent up fangirl rage I have boiling inside from the lack of Kaidan in ME2.

Geez, you don't even play the game well. Posted ImagePosted Image


Fine, you big poo-poo head.  I'll take my Kaidan and go home.  *throws sand*

#55370
JaerWolfe

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Sialater wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...

It was brought up here because of the Kaidan/Horizon connection, Jaer.


Then it should have stayed on the Kaidan/Horizon connection, Sia.



You're right.  Would a Kaidan make you feel better?  :D


You're not supposed to agree with me, you're supposed to start a flamewar and help me alleviate all this pent up fangirl rage I have boiling inside from the lack of Kaidan in ME2.

Geez, you don't even play the game well. Posted ImagePosted Image


Fine, you big poo-poo head.  I'll take my Kaidan and go home.  *throws sand*

You can't take Kaidan and go home because he protected me from your sand throwing with his awesome biotic skill. He's always loved me more than he does you. Posted Image

#55371
Aslanasadi

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Quaay wrote...

Oh I hope Liara does mention him in the DLC...or at least ask about him...something, anything. I think we've all learned not to get our hopes up though.


I feel the same way...*sighs*...

#55372
Sialater

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JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...


Fine, you big poo-poo head.  I'll take my Kaidan and go home.  *throws sand*

You can't take Kaidan and go home because he protected me from your sand throwing with his awesome biotic skill. He's always loved me more than he does you. Posted Image



Nuh-uhn!  That is SOOO not true!  I gave him 10 Shepards!  10!

#55373
JaerWolfe

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Sialater wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...


Fine, you big poo-poo head.  I'll take my Kaidan and go home.  *throws sand*

You can't take Kaidan and go home because he protected me from your sand throwing with his awesome biotic skill. He's always loved me more than he does you. Posted Image



Nuh-uhn!  That is SOOO not true!  I gave him 10 Shepards!  10!

Rache
Morryghan
Jirel
Kaet
Sevreana
Raena
Raen
Jaer
Jael
Taen
Kessiah Wren
Aralorn
Mist
Brinhild - my only blond
John - who if he were gay would have gone for Kaidan, but he kept him alive anyway.

All romanced Kaidan and most have multiple playthroughs.
Sigh. I have no life...actually, it's more that I don't sleep.

#55374
Sialater

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JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...


Fine, you big poo-poo head.  I'll take my Kaidan and go home.  *throws sand*

You can't take Kaidan and go home because he protected me from your sand throwing with his awesome biotic skill. He's always loved me more than he does you. Posted Image



Nuh-uhn!  That is SOOO not true!  I gave him 10 Shepards!  10!

Rache
Morryghan
Jirel
Kaet
Sevreana
Raena
Raen
Jaer
Jael
Taen
Kessiah Wren
Aralorn
Mist
Brinhild - my only blond
John - who if he were gay would have gone for Kaidan, but he kept him alive anyway.

All romanced Kaidan and most have multiple playthroughs.
Sigh. I have no life...actually, it's more that I don't sleep.


You and me both. *sigh*  I just don't remember all my Sheps names since they went to the RROD graveyard.  (I didn't count Meghan and Rachel.) 

You realize fighting is silly.  We each have our own Kaidan. ;)

#55375
sagefic

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ha ha ha! you guys are awesome.

And re: Cerberus/Alliance - i truly think that the connection is there. anderson knows, i just think he's trying to use it atm.

i want to see VS DLC have this all come out and the Kaidan(orAsh) has to choose to join shep or not. that way, it's all shown to be a massive conspiracy from the beginning. so - could go either way, "side" with the alliance or cerberus, and yet, like so many game decisions, not really do squat for the ultimate playing out of the story.

but it brings back kaidan, which is what really matters.

what reapers?

oh, right...