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[fortunesque]

He's a manipulative ass. He leads Shepard's team into a trap on the Collector ship, knowing that it is a trap. Then when he's confronted about it, he smooth-talks Shepard and says that he had faith in Shep's abilities. That's a bunch of bull****.



Okay, I really hate TIM and Cerberus.

[JaerWolfe]

Sialater wrote...
And I see manipulation and a contrived emergency as blackmail. Especially since Freedom's Progress wasn't the first or the last. It was just an illustration.

As I said, a difference of perspectives, then.

fortunesque wrote...
*snip* There's absolutely *no* reason that my Shepard would willingly work with Cerberus. Ever. Honestly, I don't know how to write her into the corner that she was put in with ME2.

Don't get me started on the writing that put Shep there. There are so many better ways to contrive a Suicide Mission and a reason to recruit 12 misfits and criminals. Things that would have made sense and worked within the world build. Things that would have had Horizon make sense instead of a major WTF moment.

I will say, the quality of LotSB...minus a couple of things that I shrugged off...does give me hope that they have a plan for ME3 and that ME2 is really what it appears to be...a filler. The lack of information on the VS makes me think anything they give away at this point would contain too much of a spoiler.
Also, the DLC was worth the $10 just to have my Shep acting human and emotional again, even it if was with Liara. She was never one of my favorites characters, but the romance bits I saw on Youtube were very well done and thoughtful. I hope we get the same kind of personal touch in ME3 with Kaidan.

[Jean]

fortunesque wrote...

He's a manipulative ass. He leads Shepard's team into a trap on the Collector ship, knowing that it is a trap. Then when he's confronted about it, he smooth-talks Shepard and says that he had faith in Shep's abilities. That's a bunch of bull****.

Okay, I really hate TIM and Cerberus.

Exactly! I love characters like that even if it makes hell for my own.
It does mean Bioware is doing something right if people dislike a character as much as liking one.

[Jade5233]

FireEye wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I think the stepping stone should be that we finally get to convince Kaidan that yes, we died. No we weren't working for Cerberus voluntarily. No, we betrayed no one.

I never got the impression that he didn't believe Shepard when she said she died.  And he seemed pretty willing to take her case to the council for her (whether or not his faith was well placed or she never mentioned had she already been there...).

I disagree that Shepard wasn't working for Cerberus voluntarily and that she didn't betray the Alliance, but that's neither here nor there.   (As far as I'm concerned, it's all a matter of personal perspective.)

...

You know, oddly enough, I the fact that Kaidan didn't believe the death thing didn't really enter my mind too much when  I first played either.  It was more when I read the fan fic stuff that I saw how big of a problem that should have been.  *shrugs*  I guess I"m just naive that way.

I guess technically, Shepard acted voluntarily in that she could have just left Cerberus and retired somewhere waiting for the Reapers to finish the galaxy.  But if she wanted to fight what was coming, then Cerberus was her only open option.  So its a matter of perspective.  If any of my 3 Shepards had been given an option and resources by the Alliance or the Council to fight the Collectors, she would have told TIM to shove it.

Perhaps duress is a better term than blackmail?

Fenris
I dunno. Horizon felt like it had to happen. Kaidan reserves the right to go off on one. I just wish I could pounce him as he walks away. Steal another hug or something before Shepard returns to the Normandy... xD

I agree with the last part. 

Collider
Unless there's some revelation in the comics about how Shepard "survived," I just find it something to be taken for granted.

We don't know how long after exposure she was picked up by the Shadow Broker.  But he has her in a stasis-type coffin thing with some life support.  So there was enough life processes taking place apparently on a cellular level.  I just don't quite know how that worked.  But I guess there has to be a certain level of suspension of belief.

Batteries
I'm confused. What did Timmy say about Kaidan that was a lie anyways? Only lines I ever remember him saying about him was "his file was surprisingly well classified", which I'm sure it is. Then the line that he was on Horizon.

I think the only lie was one of exclusion.  I don't think there was anything that he said about Kaidan that was completely untrue.  I don't for a moment believe, however, that he didn't know where Kaidan was or where he was going (Horizon), especially since (1) EDI tells us that some of the major contributors to Cerberus are high-ups in the Alliance and (2) VERY MINOR LOTSB SPOILER:  the Cerberus dossier says that TIM had a contact on Horizon.

[Collider]

Brodyaha wrote...

I dislike how opinions of Cerberus switch from Paragon and Renegade choices.

The first couple of times, the Paragon choices are anti-Cerberus. Renegade options are things such as, "Cerberus does good work." Then on Horizon, Shepard can choose a paragon option to defend them? Doesn't make sense. (Did anybody else notices this?)

I try and justify it as: my Paragade Shep is in shock, and she knows that it's a crappy situation, so if she cooperates, she'll eventually get a chance to escape Cerberus clutches.

I don't know of another way to justify it.

The Paragon and Renegade decisions are a bit wonky in ME2.

[Quaay]

The more I think about BioWare's future plans for Kaidan/Ash the more hopeful I get. After Liara's DLC I really think they are headed in the right direction and are listening to fans.

[vaylander]

Like in ME1 you can convert Kaidan to your way of thinking. I hope there's a way for him to join the "dark side" again. That's if he's stubborn as a mule next time around. Cerberus stooge I am. Or was that Alliance stooge? I forget Jack's exact qoute.

[Collider]

Quaay wrote...

The more I think about BioWare's future plans for Kaidan/Ash the more hopeful I get. After Liara's DLC I really think they are headed in the right direction and are listening to fans.

I quite like it.

[Jade5233]

Brodyaha wrote...

I dislike how opinions of Cerberus switch from Paragon and Renegade choices.

The first couple of times, the Paragon choices are anti-Cerberus. Renegade options are things such as, "Cerberus does good work." Then on Horizon, Shepard can choose a paragon option to defend them? Doesn't make sense. (Did anybody else notices this?)

I try and justify it as: my Paragade Shep is in shock, and she knows that it's a crappy situation, so if she cooperates, she'll eventually get a chance to escape Cerberus clutches.

I don't know of another way to justify it.

This is why in subsequent playthroughs I've stopped paying as much attention in ME2 to what response is on top and more to what the paraphrase is.  My mShep who's supposed to be a Paragon is taking up more and more non-paragon dialogue choices.

Jaer
Also, the DLC was worth the $10 just to have my Shep acting human and emotional again, even it if was with Liara. She was never one of my favorites characters, but the romance bits I saw on Youtube were very well done and thoughtful. I hope we get the same kind of personal touch in ME3 with Kaidan.

I agree.  For the first time since ME1 someone seems to care about Shepard herself and how she's holding up rather than just what Shepard can do for them.

[sagefic]

Sialater wrote...

I had to write Loved because I had to figure it out, myself.

this. why i took to fanfic.

hmm...makes it sound like i picked up an addiction

[FireEye]

fortunesque wrote...

Mine's been ready. There's absolutely *no* reason that my Shepard would willingly work with Cerberus. Ever. Honestly, I don't know how to write her into the corner that she was put in with ME2.

Same... I can't even figure out where to begin.  (And it's only gotten worse playing over - I don't think I've ever had an RP character give me the silent treatment before.  )

Ah well.  At least playing ME2 makes me really appreciate what I have with ME1.  And Kaidan.  It makes me appreciate Kaidan, rather than take him for granted.



That's good, right? 

Jade5233 wrote...

We don't know how long after exposure she was picked up by the Shadow Broker.  But he has her in a stasis-type coffin thing with some life support.  So there was enough life processes taking place apparently on a cellular level.  I just don't quite know how that worked.  But I guess there has to be a certain level of suspension of belief.

According to one of the devs, she fully splatted into the planet, which is whyfor the busted bones.  Full on reconstruction, not simply resurrection.  They didn't seem to understand what is wrong with this picture.  :innocent:

(I think there was a dark magic ritual involved to bind Shep's soul to a biomechanical golem.  It's the only thing that makes sense!  )

[Sialater]

sagequeen wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I had to write Loved because I had to figure it out, myself.

this. why i took to fanfic.

hmm...makes it sound like i picked up an addiction

Didn't we? 

Jade:  "Duress,"... ok... I'll use that word.  It's potayto, potahto to my way of thinking... but duress works.

[Jean]

Jade5233 wrote...

I think the only lie was one of exclusion.  I don't think there was anything that he said about Kaidan that was completely untrue.  I don't for a moment believe, however, that he didn't know where Kaidan was or where he was going (Horizon), especially since (1) EDI tells us that some of the major contributors to Cerberus are high-ups in the Alliance and (2) VERY MINOR LOTSB SPOILER:  the Cerberus dossier says that TIM had a contact on Horizon.

I never believed for a second that he did not know. He doesn't not know. The only one I can say Timmy may not of known about was Garrus being Archangel. In that case, he doesn't treat you any better than Anderson does with the VS. Maybe because of Cerberus, but at the same time we don't really know where Anderson stands. Especially after the DLC, his position is a little more than shady to me. More withheld information than blatant lie.

[Sialater]

Batteries wrote...

Jade5233 wrote...

I think the only lie was one of exclusion.  I don't think there was anything that he said about Kaidan that was completely untrue.  I don't for a moment believe, however, that he didn't know where Kaidan was or where he was going (Horizon), especially since (1) EDI tells us that some of the major contributors to Cerberus are high-ups in the Alliance and (2) VERY MINOR LOTSB SPOILER:  the Cerberus dossier says that TIM had a contact on Horizon.

I never believed for a second that he did not know. He doesn't not know. The only one I can say Timmy may not of known about was Garrus being Archangel. In that case, he doesn't treat you any better than Anderson does with the VS. Maybe because of Cerberus, but at the same time we don't really know where Anderson stands. Especially after the DLC, his position is a little more than shady to me. More withheld information than blatant lie.

Anderson is a cagey bastard.  And it's really irritating he won't tell you what's going on with the VS.

[Jade5233]

FireEye wrote...

Ah well.  At least playing ME2 makes me really appreciate what I have with ME1.  And Kaidan.  It makes me appreciate Kaidan, rather than take him for granted.

Jade5233 wrote...

We don't know how long after exposure she was picked up by the Shadow Broker.  But he has her in a stasis-type coffin thing with some life support.  So there was enough life processes taking place apparently on a cellular level.  I just don't quite know how that worked.  But I guess there has to be a certain level of suspension of belief.

According to one of the devs, she fully splatted into the planet, which is whyfor the busted bones.  Full on reconstruction, not simply resurrection.  They didn't seem to understand what is wrong with this picture.  :innocent:

(I think there was a dark magic ritual involved to bind Shep's soul to a biomechanical golem.  It's the only thing that makes sense!  )

So who slept with Kaidan in the black magic ritual then to keep Shepard from dying? 

And yeah.  ME2 makes me appreciate Kaidan more.  I guess its easy for us and for Shepard to take for granted his always being there as a squadmate, having our back.  Then ME2, and going back to ME1 and just hearing his voice as you kick butt is wonderful again.

Then there's his apparent growth from the brief glimpse on Horizon, how he's able to face down Shepard like he does without backing down from his principles.  I hate how the scene plays out, but I do love seeing that in his character.

  Batteries
I never believed for a second that he did not know. He doesn't not know. The only one I can say Timmy may not of known about was Garrus being Archangel. In that case, he doesn't treat you any better than Anderson does with the VS. Maybe because of Cerberus, but at the same time we don't really know where Anderson stands. Especially after the DLC, his position is a little more than shady to me. More withheld information than blatant lie.

I agree with the Archangel part.  I think if he knew that he was Garrus, a person loyal to Shepard from her former team, that he wouldn't have set Shepard up with him at that point in the game.
I think he includes Tali later as a means of appeasing Shepard, especially following her frustration after Horizon.  He wants to make her feel like he's open to her having loyal friends from her former life and the young, relatively naive Tali is a good choice (as opposed to the more level-headed Commander Alenko who would be more prone to keeping Shepard from being herded down the paths that Timmy wants).

I never had any doubts about Anderson--apart from anger at his "stonewalling" both Shepard and Kaidan.  But now after LotBS, I wonder...

[sagefic]

 speaking of taking to fanfic, next chapter is up. 60? huh. well, i just can't stop writing, so there you go.

and edit: LotSB notwithstanding, i still have faith in Anderson. i do. i love that guy.

Modifié par sagequeen, 10 septembre 2010 - 05:25 .

[fortunesque]

Right now, Liara is the only character that I fully trust in the ME universe. Everyone else is suspect.

[Jade5233]

I trust Kaidan, too, even if he's pissed with us.

[FireEye]

fortunesque wrote...

Right now, Liara is the only character that I fully trust in the ME universe. Everyone else is suspect.

What about the space monkeys? 

[fortunesque]

I'd trust him only to a certain point. He's in a very awkward position of being in a place of direct opposition to Shepard's affiliates. I would not want to put him in the position of having to make a choice as to what kind of info to withhold and what is okay to share.



Liara has no such ties. That's why I trust her more at the moment, since it's continually obvious that even if you destroy the base, you're still stuck with Cerberus.

[FenrisDeSolar]

Brodyaha wrote...

I dislike how opinions of Cerberus switch from Paragon and Renegade choices.

The first couple of times, the Paragon choices are anti-Cerberus. Renegade options are things such as, "Cerberus does good work." Then on Horizon, Shepard can choose a paragon option to defend them? Doesn't make sense. (Did anybody else notices this?)

I try and justify it as: my Paragade Shep is in shock, and she knows that it's a crappy situation, so if she cooperates, she'll eventually get a chance to escape Cerberus clutches.

I don't know of another way to justify it.

This is what I tried to express two pages back. o_O Thanks for making it make sense! xD

[sagefic]

At the end of ME2, I trust completely: Liara, Garrus, Tali, Miranda
I'm trust with some reservation: Kaidan (only because I have no idea what BW has in store for him, Joker, Kasumi, Anderson, Samara, Bailey
I'm neutral on: Thane, EDI, the Council, the Alliance, Jacob
I'm very leery of: Legion, Zaeed
I don't trust at all: TIM, Udina

Modifié par sagequeen, 10 septembre 2010 - 06:07 .

[Sialater]

sagequeen wrote...

At the end of ME2, I trust completely: Liara, Garrus, Tali, Miranda
I'm trust with some reservation: Kaidan (only because I have no idea what BW has in store for him, Joker, Kasumi, Anderson, Samara, Bailey
I'm neutral on: Thane, EDI, the Council, the Alliance, Jacob
I'm very leery of: Legion, Zaeed
I don't trust at all: TIM, Udina

No Chakwas?

[sagefic]

oh, yeah:
Chakwas: trust completely
Mess Sergent Gardiner: trust completely (I LOVE that guy. he feeds the biotics)
Kelly: don't trust at all. still
edit: ken and gabby, trust with some reservations. they did try to take my creds in poker, after all

Modifié par sagequeen, 10 septembre 2010 - 06:16 .