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[FireEye]

As I've said, I didn't feel the dark in ME2.  ME1 was dark to me, ME2 was kinda... not.  So in my mind, they'd have to make ME3 a lot darker to make up for it.

... although to be fair, if ME1 is "light" in BioWare's eyes, I'll take more of that, then. 

[Collider]

I would put to Omega and Jack (and to a lesser extent, Thane) as some of the examples of darkness in ME2.

[Jade5233]

fortunesque wrote...

goofygoff wrote...

ME2 is supposed to be the "dark chapter" in the trilogy, so logic would dictate that things should start looking up for Shepard in ME3. Hopefully, that includes the romance department.

I thought the not-so-happy endings in DA:O fit perfectly within a dark fantasy world. But I also think that's where they should stay.

I agree. You don't give the end of a trilogy an intentionally dark and tragic ending or people will end up really pissed off (I'm looking at you, Matrix trilogy...) :innocent:

But the Matrix triology was distopian to begin with.  Mass Effect is not.
So I agree that since this is supposed to be a standard triology with a dark middle act, logic would dictate that that ending should be happy.

I didn't know that Jack's biotics were like burning out or something.  I only get as far in the story as "no girls club" with her.  and my mShep was not going there.  Bad enough that the poor guy got date raped by Kelly. 

@Fort:  I would be okay with Shepard going back to the Alliance if they worked out some way for her to not be in the chain of command over Kaidan so that their relationship would not pose a problem with them being squadmates.
I' more inclined to have Shepard as a bit of an independent agent and Spectre.  Afterall, she has a lot of former Cerberus crew on her ship that likely wouldn't be welcomed back into the alliance or into Cerberus.  So she kinda has to watch out for them.  I could see her as the centralizing agent--for the Alliance/Council, for the Krogan, for the Rachni, for the Geth, for the Quarians, etc and to an extent Cerberus yet since they still want the Reapers stopped.  At least paragon Shep has built those relationships.  I think we've seen enough in the past at how the Alliance tries to hinder Shepard.  Personally, I think she would be better outside of it.  And Kaidan can be her Alliance rep on her team.

[Sialater]

Jade5233 wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

goofygoff wrote...

ME2 is supposed to be the "dark chapter" in the trilogy, so logic would dictate that things should start looking up for Shepard in ME3. Hopefully, that includes the romance department.

I thought the not-so-happy endings in DA:O fit perfectly within a dark fantasy world. But I also think that's where they should stay.

I agree. You don't give the end of a trilogy an intentionally dark and tragic ending or people will end up really pissed off (I'm looking at you, Matrix trilogy...) :innocent:

But the Matrix triology was distopian to begin with.  Mass Effect is not.
So I agree that since this is supposed to be a standard triology with a dark middle act, logic would dictate that that ending should be happy.

I didn't know that Jack's biotics were like burning out or something.  I only get as far in the story as "no girls club" with her.  and my mShep was not going there.  Bad enough that the poor guy got date raped by Kelly. 

@Fort:  I would be okay with Shepard going back to the Alliance if they worked out some way for her to not be in the chain of command over Kaidan so that their relationship would not pose a problem with them being squadmates.
I' more inclined to have Shepard as a bit of an independent agent and Spectre.  Afterall, she has a lot of former Cerberus crew on her ship that likely wouldn't be welcomed back into the alliance or into Cerberus.  So she kinda has to watch out for them.  I could see her as the centralizing agent--for the Alliance/Council, for the Krogan, for the Rachni, for the Geth, for the Quarians, etc and to an extent Cerberus yet since they still want the Reapers stopped.  At least paragon Shep has built those relationships.  I think we've seen enough in the past at how the Alliance tries to hinder Shepard.  Personally, I think she would be better outside of it.  And Kaidan can be her Alliance rep on her team.

It's actually in the blurb about the L5x upgrade.

Going back to the Alliance would severely hamper the efforts against the Reapers.  After all, Shep would be subject to the chain of command again.  So, yeah, I agree with you Jade about the VS being the Alliance rep.

[syllogi]

Collider wrote...

I would put to Omega and Jack (and to a lesser extent, Thane) as some of the examples of darkness in ME2.

Yeah, as I was just saying in another thread, I felt like staying faithful and lonely actually added to my roleplaying in ME2, since if you do have a love interest and are accepting of being a Cerberus employee, and if the suicide mission goes perfectly, you have gained a lot and lost nothing by the end of the game.  That's not very "dark", in my opinion. 

I'm not terribly fond of constant angst in games, but sometimes it's appropriate.  And it was appropriate for my Alliance loyal, well meaning, paragon character to be extremely conflicted, sad, and lonely, in this part of the trilogy, at least.

[Collider]

TeenZombie wrote...

Collider wrote...

I would put to Omega and Jack (and to a lesser extent, Thane) as some of the examples of darkness in ME2.

Yeah, as I was just saying in another thread, I felt like staying faithful and lonely actually added to my roleplaying in ME2, since if you do have a love interest and are accepting of being a Cerberus employee, and if the suicide mission goes perfectly, you have gained a lot and lost nothing by the end of the game.  That's not very "dark", in my opinion. 

I'm not terribly fond of constant angst in games, but sometimes it's appropriate.  And it was appropriate for my Alliance loyal, well meaning, paragon character to be extremely conflicted, sad, and lonely, in this part of the trilogy, at least.

I can see that. It's a matter of what how one sees the games.  I can see how ME1 may appear to be darker, or ME2 may not seem to be dark. I feel it is, but it's all perspective. Ultimately there's nothing inherently good or better about darker themes (IMO). One's enjoyance depends on whether they like it in the first place, and how it's executed.

So far as Shepard herself goes, I DEFINITELY think Shepard is "darker" in ME1. No ifs or buts. Shepard can actually somewhat resemble a human in ME1. Have problems, issues, be unsure, be insecure, have frustrations, have regrets, be sorry...a lot of that is gone in ME2. Sadly.

Modifié par Collider, 14 septembre 2010 - 07:51 .

[Lisa_H]

Putting Shepard back under the Alliance chain of command would seem almost ridiculous. Shepard has defeated a reaper, died, being brought back to life, gone thought the Omega relay, defeated the collectors.

The thought of an admiral or captain trying to tell her what to do could only end in disaster. I hope Shepard runs her own show in ME3. But putting Kaidan on her team as an Alliance rep seems like a good idea.

[FireEye]

Collider wrote...

I would put to Omega and Jack (and to a lesser extent, Thane) as some of the examples of darkness in ME2.

I disagree with Omega, Jack, or Thane being dark, but then the things that struck me as dark in ME2 were things that probably weren't intentional.  Such as the SR2.  The SR2 creeped me the hell out nicely.

Anyway.  Kaidan.  I love the Kaidan, yep, yes, I do. 



And Ashley, too. 

[Chignon]

FireEye wrote...

Collider wrote...

I would put to Omega and Jack (and to a lesser extent, Thane) as some of the examples of darkness in ME2.

I disagree with Omega, Jack, or Thane being dark, but then the things that struck me as dark in ME2 were things that probably weren't intentional.  Such as the SR2.  The SR2 creeped me the hell out nicely.

Anyway.  Kaidan.  I love the Kaidan, yep, yes, I do. 

*snip*
And Ashley, too. 

I'm with you on that, FireEye. I didn't really get the dark feeling that ME2 was supposed to have either (maybe also because I played it first). And neither did I get the oh so compelling ME2 LIs ...




Kaidan!

[syllogi]

FireEye wrote...

I disagree with Omega, Jack, or Thane being dark, but then the things that struck me as dark in ME2 were things that probably weren't intentional.  Such as the SR2.  The SR2 creeped me the hell out nicely.

I feel like the romances cut down severely on any "darkness" Thane or Jack's characters could have had, but perhaps something more will happen in ME3 to prove me wrong.  For the sake of the people who enjoyed their romances, let's hope that they don't actually make those two darker, though.

The SR2 really does have a creepy feel, partially because it looks like the old Normandy but has Cerberus logos all over it, and also because the bright, "flourescent" style lighting on most of the ship is off putting and antiseptic and reminds me of a hospital.  The old Normandy, while dark, felt more "homey" and comfortable to me.  The only good thing about the lighting in the new game is that it's easier to take screenshots.

[FenrisDeSolar]

hai, guyz.



Um, the only new ME2 love interest I REALLY liked was Garrus. But I already wanted to bed him in ME1. >:/



I agree though, ME1 is a much darker game. Having the thorian there, the indoctrinated salarians on Virmire, having to CHOOSE who lives and who dies... >_< Chasing after Cerberus to save Kahoku. There are so many more forces at work in ME1 than ME2. ME2 feels like it's all about the collectors and the crew. ¬_¬ I'd almost forgotten about the reapers before I made it to the suicide mission.



So, I'm hoping BW will pull some miracle out of their *sses for ME3. Much as I liked ME2, I was seriously disappointed by a lot of it. :/

[Collider]

I feel like the romances cut down severely on any "darkness" Thane or Jack's characters could have had, but perhaps something more will happen in ME3 to prove me wrong. For the sake of the people who enjoyed their romances, let's hope that they don't actually make those two darker, though.

I did both Jack and Thane's romances, and I completely agree. For all of the darkness of their characters, it was hardly utilized. Jack's romance came off as Shepard trying to egg Jack into a relationship (with several opportunities to call her stupid). I was hoping that they'd explore Jacks' dark past more in the romance. But mostly it was Shepard saying that Jack wants him or that he knows better than she does. After all that Jack has gone through, I would want Shepard to comfort her, not treat her like trash. I like Jack enough as a character, but I think they went the wrong route in her romance.

I really liked Thane's romance, but I found it rather unemotional and unconflicted until the romance scene. It was pretty happy until Thane comes up into Shepard's cabin.

Modifié par Collider, 14 septembre 2010 - 08:21 .

[Jade5233]

TeenZombie wrote...

Collider wrote...

I would put to Omega and Jack (and to a lesser extent, Thane) as some of the examples of darkness in ME2.

Yeah, as I was just saying in another thread, I felt like staying faithful and lonely actually added to my roleplaying in ME2, since if you do have a love interest and are accepting of being a Cerberus employee, and if the suicide mission goes perfectly, you have gained a lot and lost nothing by the end of the game.  That's not very "dark", in my opinion. 

I'm not terribly fond of constant angst in games, but sometimes it's appropriate.  And it was appropriate for my Alliance loyal, well meaning, paragon character to be extremely conflicted, sad, and lonely, in this part of the trilogy, at least.

I like wearing my Blood Dragon armor for the biotic boost it gives.  And for my Kara Shepard, her being upset about losing Kaidan RP's into that well since now she has a reason to cover her face all of the time out on missions.

  Fire Eye
I disagree with Omega, Jack, or Thane being dark, but then the things that struck me as dark in ME2 were things that probably weren't intentional.  Such as the SR2.  The SR2 creeped me the hell out nicely.

But it was roomier.  I liked that we have a cook.
And I like Shepard's apartment.  Its just that there's something missing in it....can't put my finger on it...oh, that's right, its missing KAIDAN! 

I didn't get that the ME2 LI's were compelling either.  Thane I had a little interest in.  But none of them seemed to have the depth that the romance with Kaidan had.  There was deep mutual friendship, respect, support, and then the love and lovescene on top of that.  I don't see that give-and-take with any of the characters in ME2 from the romance alone.  Yeah, you can RP it with Garrus and Tali since they have been with you in 2 games.  But as far as it being a equal give and take like with Kaidan--its not.

[Chignon]

Jade5233 wrote...

  Fire Eye
I disagree with Omega, Jack, or Thane being dark, but then the things that struck me as dark in ME2 were things that probably weren't intentional.  Such as the SR2.  The SR2 creeped me the hell out nicely.

But it was roomier.  I liked that we have a cook.
And I like Shepard's apartment.  Its just that there's something missing in it....can't put my finger on it...oh, that's right, its missing KAIDAN! 

That's it! That's why the bed in Shepard's cabin seemed so huge and empty.




... better.

[Sialater]

Chignon wrote...

Jade5233 wrote...

  Fire Eye
I disagree with Omega, Jack, or Thane being dark, but then the things that struck me as dark in ME2 were things that probably weren't intentional.  Such as the SR2.  The SR2 creeped me the hell out nicely.

But it was roomier.  I liked that we have a cook.
And I like Shepard's apartment.  Its just that there's something missing in it....can't put my finger on it...oh, that's right, its missing KAIDAN! 

That's it! That's why the bed in Shepard's cabin seemed so huge and empty.




... better.

I'd like to requisition one half-dressed Staff Commander for my cabin on the SR-2 please? :devil:

[Jade5233]

Sialater wrote...

Chignon wrote...

Jade5233 wrote...

  Fire Eye
I disagree with Omega, Jack, or Thane being dark, but then the things that struck me as dark in ME2 were things that probably weren't intentional.  Such as the SR2.  The SR2 creeped me the hell out nicely.

But it was roomier.  I liked that we have a cook.
And I like Shepard's apartment.  Its just that there's something missing in it....can't put my finger on it...oh, that's right, its missing KAIDAN! 

That's it! That's why the bed in Shepard's cabin seemed so huge and empty.




... better.

I'd like to requisition one half-dressed Staff Commander for my cabin on the SR-2 please? :devil:

See?  ^^  That's what that big lonely couch needs.  Or the bed.  Or the table by the couch. Or just clear off the workdesk...

[Chignon]

Jade5233 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I'd like to requisition one half-dressed Staff Commander for my cabin on the SR-2 please? :devil:

See?  ^^  That's what that big lonely couch needs.  Or the bed.  Or the table by the couch. Or just clear off the workdesk...

Or the well-hidden shower.

[Ariaya]

I found ME2 much darker than the first game. I felt a real sense of Shepard's isolation, sadness, and loneliness. I found the SR-2 very creepy and unsettling. But even worse, what was happening to the colonists was really horrific. Pumping human "gray matter" into tubes to engineer a Reaper machine? Piles of human bodies. Families (and therefore children) being taken and "processed" that way. That's pretty horrible. I don't think that the game was overly graphic and Bioware didn't overwhelm the viewer with shock value kinds of scenes but they didn't need to. If you start to think about the implications of what was happening to the humans in ME2, it's the stuff of nightmares. Seeing humans trapped in those pods on the Collector ship and knowing what their fate was going to be gave me the shivers.

For me all this just intensified my sense of loss regarding Kaidan. I felt like Shepard really needed him through all of this and not having his support was just bleak and heartbreaking. I felt that the suicide mission really was full of danger and one of the toughest, darkest ME2 moments for me was Shepard alone in her cabin looking at Kaidan's holo and knowing what she was about to embark on, still loving him, and going into that suicide run knowing that she was not reconciled to him.

And yet through it all, Shepard never loses that inner strength of hers--she rallies everybody during the mission, even when the chips are down. I love her strength; she was and always will be for me a true hero.

So yes--I consider ME2 quite dark.

ME3--we need more Kaidan! And a kiss. I don't even care about a sex scene; just give me one tender, passionate kiss and I will be a happy woman. After everything these two have been through, they really do deserve a heck of a reunion.

Modifié par Ariaya, 14 septembre 2010 - 09:26 .

[Chignon]

Ariaya wrote...

I found ME2 much darker than the first game. I felt a real sense of Shepard's isolation, sadness, and loneliness. I found the SR-2 very creepy and unsettling. But even worse, what was happening to the colonists was really horrific. Pumping human "gray matter" into tubes to engineer a Reaper machine? Piles of human bodies. Families (and therefore children) being taken and "processed" that way. That's pretty horrible. I don't think that the game was overly graphic and Bioware didn't overwhelm the viewer with shock value kinds of scenes but they didn't need to. If you start to think about the implications of what was happening to the humans in ME2, it's the stuff of nightmares. Seeing humans trapped in those pods on the Collector ship and knowing what their fate was going to be gave me the shivers..

I felt really disconnected from what happened to the colonists, mainly because so few quests actually involved the Collectors and the colonies they targeted. There are, what, three quests? You heard about it more from crew members talking on the SR-2 or news reports than seeing it with your own eyes.

For me all this just intensified my sense of loss regarding Kaidan. I felt like Shepard really needed him through all of this and not having his support was just bleak and heartbreaking. I felt that the suicide mission really was full of danger and one of the toughest, darkest ME2 moments for me was Shepard alone in her cabin looking at Kaidan's holo and knowing what she was about to embark on, still loving him, and going into that suicide run knowing that she was not reconciled to him. .

That is the only really "dark" moment in the game for me and it is very poignant. As someone here pointed out, Shepard helps every single one of her crew to find some sort of closure before the suicide mission but she herself finds none.

And yet through it all, Shepard never loses that inner strength of hers--she rallies everybody during the mission, even when the chips are down. I love her strength; she was and always will be for me a true hero.

So yes--I consider ME2 quite dark.

ME3--we need more Kaidan! And a kiss. I don't even care about a sex scene; just give me one tender, passionate kiss and I will be a happy woman. After everything these two have been through, they really do deserve a heck of a reunion.

Yes, strength, but also the clearly missing option of Shepard being able to express some sort of emotion besides being angry or pissed off at somebody or something. Although this has been somewhat remedied by LotSB.

Modifié par Chignon, 14 septembre 2010 - 09:46 .

[FireEye]

Ariaya wrote...

I found ME2 much darker than the first game. I felt a real sense of Shepard's isolation, sadness, and loneliness. I found the SR-2 very creepy and unsettling. But even worse, what was happening to the colonists was really horrific. Pumping human "gray matter" into tubes to engineer a Reaper machine? Piles of human bodies. Families (and therefore children) being taken and "processed" that way. That's pretty horrible. I don't think that the game was overly graphic and Bioware didn't overwhelm the viewer with shock value kinds of scenes but they didn't need to. If you start to think about the implications of what was happening to the humans in ME2, it's the stuff of nightmares. Seeing humans trapped in those pods on the Collector ship and knowing what their fate was going to be gave me the shivers.

*Shrugs* Oddly enough, this is one of the biggest things that brought ME2 down in my opinion.  In ME1, the Reapers are Outer Gods.  In ME2, they're just another step up the food chain.  I don't know if I can kill an Outer God; I don't even know if I took down Sovereign for good.  But if they're just up the food chain, then they're simply the biggest bear in the woods; I can kill the biggest bear in the woods.

The fact that we don't even get to rescue any colonists (what we allegedly set out to do) or reflect on how we didn't get to rescue any colonists (since, you know, at the heart of it we failed) annoyed me as well, but that's less dark and more... something.

ME3--we need more Kaidan! And a kiss. I don't even care about a sex scene; just give me one tender, passionate kiss and I will be a happy woman. After everything these two have been through, they really do deserve a heck of a reunion.

But this I'll agree with. 

Modifié par FireEye, 15 septembre 2010 - 01:01 .

[FireEye]

Chignon wrote...

That is the only really "dark" moment in the game for me and it is very poignant. As someone here pointed out, Shepard helps every single one of her crew to find some sort of closure before the suicide mission but she herself finds none.

She gets to say goodbye to Kaidan or Ashley.  According to tIM, that's enough.  And tIM is always right... right? 

[Chignon]

FireEye wrote...

Chignon wrote...

That is the only really "dark" moment in the game for me and it is very poignant. As someone here pointed out, Shepard helps every single one of her crew to find some sort of closure before the suicide mission but she herself finds none.

She gets to say goodbye to Kaidan or Ashley.  According to tIM, that's enough.  And tIM is always right... right? 

.. can these eyes lie?

[FenrisDeSolar]

If Timmeh wasn't such an arse, I'd've liked him to be a LI. He's kinda gorgeous.



But damn him for screwing up our Shepards!! >_<

[Chignon]

Considering his dossier, you'd have to wait in line, Fenris.