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[KendallX23]

ok..i put this on Ashley thread and will ask here too....after the Citadel and Normandy destruction...some were vocal about Reapers and Shepard mistreatment...like Joker,Gabby and Ken...some were not...and unfortunately...Kaidan/Ashley is one of them...they just took the promotion and went on with their life(i am not talking about mourning)...do they come as cold ?or we just don't know much info on that with the Virmire survivor...either way...makes for an interesting future storyline

[sapphyreelf]

Good morning everyone.

I see some lovely Kaidan discussion is going on this morning.

For anyone following, I've posted an updated to Everything's Not Fine this morning.

[Joisan]

Yay! Thanks for giving me something to distract me from my paper-writing

[Chignon]

KendallX23 wrote...

ok..i put this on Ashley thread and will ask here too....after the Citadel and Normandy destruction...some were vocal about Reapers and Shepard mistreatment...like Joker,Gabby and Ken...some were not...and unfortunately...Kaidan/Ashley is one of them...they just took the promotion and went on with their life(i am not talking about mourning)...do they come as cold ?or we just don't know much info on that with the Virmire survivor...either way...makes for an interesting future storyline

No, I don't think cold is the right word for it. 
I think Joker made it very clear that the Alliance and the Council wanted to put aside everything Shepard had discovered about the Reapers. If Kaidan or Ashley would have acted the way, say Donnelly did, what would have happened to them?
Kaidan might have been declared mentally unstable, especially with him being a L2 biotic (they even doubt Shepard's sanity if you talk with them about the Reapers the first time you visit the Citadel in ME2) and Ashley would have been treated even worse considering her family's military history. 
On top of that,  they were grieving. I see Kaidan as someone who would bury themselves in work and the same goes for Ash to some extent - that's how I think they got the promotions. Not as a "reward" for keeping quiet. And who's to say that they didn't have a word with Anderson about it. Off the record, of course.

Not to mention that it is doubtful that they would have accomplished anyting with "being vocal".

[sapphyreelf]

Joisan wrote...

Yay! Thanks for giving me something to distract me from my paper-writing

Glad to help with the procrastination! 

[KendallX23]

Chignon wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

ok..i put this on Ashley thread and will ask here too....after the Citadel and Normandy destruction...some were vocal about Reapers and Shepard mistreatment...like Joker,Gabby and Ken...some were not...and unfortunately...Kaidan/Ashley is one of them...they just took the promotion and went on with their life(i am not talking about mourning)...do they come as cold ?or we just don't know much info on that with the Virmire survivor...either way...makes for an interesting future storyline

No, I don't think cold is the right word for it. 
I think Joker made it very clear that the Alliance and the Council wanted to put aside everything Shepard had discovered about the Reapers. If Kaidan or Ashley would have acted the way, say Donnelly did, what would have happened to them?
Kaidan might have been declared mentally unstable, especially with him being a L2 biotic (they even doubt Shepard's sanity if you talk with them about the Reapers the first time you visit the Citadel in ME2) and Ashley would have been treated even worse considering her family's military history. 
On top of that,  they were grieving. I see Kaidan as someone who would bury themselves in work and the same goes for Ash to some extent - that's how I think they got the promotions. Not as a "reward" for keeping quiet. And who's to say that they didn't have a word with Anderson about it. Off the record, of course.

Not to mention that it is doubtful that they would have accomplished anyting with "being vocal".

         i didn't say their promotion was a reward for keeping quiet...but still...Kaidan just takes the promotion and goes..now..until we know more we don't know exactly what he..or Ash did after that..maybe they are doing something...and that is why we need a DLC...
        well others were vocal..and now they work with Shepard instead of thinking of ever seeing him/her again....and is their jobs more important then a threat that would destroy the Universe..?never understoo why Ash is so interested in making the Alliance happy..clearly they don't care much about her or her familly and never will...don't know much about Kaidan unfortunately

[Jade5233]

Chignon wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

ok..i put this on Ashley thread and will ask here too....after the Citadel and Normandy destruction...some were vocal about Reapers and Shepard mistreatment...like Joker,Gabby and Ken...some were not...and unfortunately...Kaidan/Ashley is one of them...they just took the promotion and went on with their life(i am not talking about mourning)...do they come as cold ?or we just don't know much info on that with the Virmire survivor...either way...makes for an interesting future storyline

No, I don't think cold is the right word for it. 
I think Joker made it very clear that the Alliance and the Council wanted to put aside everything Shepard had discovered about the Reapers. If Kaidan or Ashley would have acted the way, say Donnelly did, what would have happened to them?
Kaidan might have been declared mentally unstable, especially with him being a L2 biotic (they even doubt Shepard's sanity if you talk with them about the Reapers the first time you visit the Citadel in ME2) and Ashley would have been treated even worse considering her family's military history. 
On top of that,  they were grieving. I see Kaidan as someone who would bury themselves in work and the same goes for Ash to some extent - that's how I think they got the promotions. Not as a "reward" for keeping quiet. And who's to say that they didn't have a word with Anderson about it. Off the record, of course.

Not to mention that it is doubtful that they would have accomplished anyting with "being vocal".

I agree.
Both Kaidan and Ash have to be careful due to their histories.
Plus Kaidan's quite logical and has some insight into how politics work.  I think he realized that being vocal wasn't going to help anything--just make things worse.  That he could accomplish more by staying quiet and working from the inside.
Kaidan just has too much integrity to accept a promotion as a "reward" for staying quiet.  That I cannot see him doing.

[KendallX23]

how would beeing vocal be any worse then things already are..Reapers are coming and from all we know..only Shep and his squad,Cerberus,Quarians and Geth are the only ones that know it..plus wouldn't Kaidan be better with SHepard then the ungrateful Alliance...i see the promotion as nothing more then Media related..hero of the citadel..makes the Alliance looks good..they do not really aknowledge his acomplishments...well except Anderson and Hackett..

Though i could be wrong and they are working undercover..wich ANderson seems to imply....and that is why...we neeed a DLC

[Elysis]

Before anything else, Kaidan is grieving the loss of the woman he loves. I'd kind of picture him having a "what's the point" attitude, and yet again, I'd also expect him to fight for Shepard's heritage (that is to say everything she's been fighting for). So I can see we're you're coming from Kendall.

But I agree with what Jade and Chignon said. So I won't rant on.
And no Kaidan picture on this page? Hell to the no!


Kai-Kai will continue fighting! Grr!

Modifié par Elysis, 18 septembre 2010 - 02:37 .

[fortunesque]

Being vocal means that they lose their position of working closely with the Council. Losing their position means that they won't be able to search for clues about the reapers (Anderson after Horizon- "there was unfortunately no evidence to prove the existence of the reapers").



It's rather selfish to think that they ought to have backed Shepard's story up when it's obvious that the Council isn't going to hear it. They're not saving their own skin and keeping a 'comfy position'.



Since when have these characters *ever* given the implication that they were that greedy and selfish? They're shutting up so they can do their job and hopefully convince the Council that the reapers are real in the process. Getting dismissed won't do the galaxy any good when they're so close to the people in power. People like Joker, Ken and Gabby were much less important. They didn't work directly with the Council.



So they shut up and bottle it up so they can actually do something where it counts.

[Estelindis]

Well, Shepard has only recently been brought back. I'm guessing that, up to this point, Kaidan has been working with the Alliance because he wants to get things done from within the system. He genuinely believes he is helping by following orders. (And, most likely, he is - though I never quite understand why, in the absence of Shepard, he doesn't help *more* and step up to the task of trying to prepare people for the Reaper invasion. Maybe he tried and was treated as mad. Sinvraal presents this possibility very skilfully in her fic Exitus.) It could also be because he feels adrift after losing Shepard and, as others suggest, he buries himself in his work to get away from his loss. Both he and Ash have always done their duties as soldiers, after all - that's what they can fall back on in a difficult time.

EDIT:  Ninja'd.  Twice!

Modifié par Estelindis, 18 septembre 2010 - 01:38 .

[BECC4]

I think you're missing the point a little KendallX23, there's more than one way to accomplish a goal than shouting about how everyone is wrong, especially to the people u wish to convince. Just because they didn't throw a strop and denounce everything they'd spent their lives trying to achieve doesn't mean they don't a) support Shep and aren't actively trying to do something about the problem. Now it's been a while since I played it but doesn't it say somewhere in the game that Anderson and Kaidan are still trying to convince people about the reaper threat? It certainly seems to me that the softly softly approach is more Kaidan's style and even Ash who can seem a bit more gung-ho has served her many crappy missions with impeccable service record so would know a thing or two about stickingto duty despite her own feelings. Just my opinion, sorry if i've made any typing errors, phone keypad is not the greatest :-)

[BECC4]

In fact after re-reading ur last post I think the last sentence is exactly what is going on and as for the DLC that would b great too, providing of course they are still squadmates in ME3 ;-)

[syllogi]

KendallX23 wrote...

ok..i put this on Ashley thread and will ask here too....after the Citadel and Normandy destruction...some were vocal about Reapers and Shepard mistreatment...like Joker,Gabby and Ken...some were not...and unfortunately...Kaidan/Ashley is one of them...they just took the promotion and went on with their life(i am not talking about mourning)...do they come as cold ?or we just don't know much info on that with the Virmire survivor...either way...makes for an interesting future storyline

I look at it from the perspective that we don't know what Ashley/Kaidan has been doing all this time, and the fact that they're doing classified stuff (well, TIM lied, but still) and reporting to Anderson (who ought not be an Alliance contact if he's on the Council) makes me hopeful that they've been working quietly to continue Shepard's work from the inside, instead of yelling about Reapers and making a scene that wouldn't help anyone in the end.

Honestly, if Kenneth hadn't been contacted by Cerberus, what would he have done after leaving the Alliance?  He would have just gotten a civilian job and continued with his life.  Kaidan/Ashley feel that the best way to save the galaxy from the Reapers is to do it from within the Alliance, and since Shepard would have done the same if she/he hadn't died, it makes sense that they feel that way.

[Chignon]

KendallX23 wrote...

Chignon wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

ok..i put this on Ashley thread and will ask here too....after the Citadel and Normandy destruction...some were vocal about Reapers and Shepard mistreatment...like Joker,Gabby and Ken...some were not...and unfortunately...Kaidan/Ashley is one of them...they just took the promotion and went on with their life(i am not talking about mourning)...do they come as cold ?or we just don't know much info on that with the Virmire survivor...either way...makes for an interesting future storyline

No, I don't think cold is the right word for it. 
I think Joker made it very clear that the Alliance and the Council wanted to put aside everything Shepard had discovered about the Reapers. If Kaidan or Ashley would have acted the way, say Donnelly did, what would have happened to them?
Kaidan might have been declared mentally unstable, especially with him being a L2 biotic (they even doubt Shepard's sanity if you talk with them about the Reapers the first time you visit the Citadel in ME2) and Ashley would have been treated even worse considering her family's military history. 
On top of that,  they were grieving. I see Kaidan as someone who would bury themselves in work and the same goes for Ash to some extent - that's how I think they got the promotions. Not as a "reward" for keeping quiet. And who's to say that they didn't have a word with Anderson about it. Off the record, of course.

Not to mention that it is doubtful that they would have accomplished anyting with "being vocal".

         i didn't say their promotion was a reward for keeping quiet...but still...Kaidan just takes the promotion and goes..now..until we know more we don't know exactly what he..or Ash did after that..maybe they are doing something...and that is why we need a DLC...
        well others were vocal..and now they work with Shepard instead of thinking of ever seeing him/her again....and is their jobs more important then a threat that would destroy the Universe..?never understoo why Ash is so interested in making the Alliance happy..clearly they don't care much about her or her familly and never will...don't know much about Kaidan unfortunately

It just read like that was what you meant.  If they continued to push the issue with the Council or the Alliance, they might have been drummed out of service and they would have lost what little influence they had and a possible chance to somehow help Shepard later on.

Who would it help if they lost their career on top of everything else they've already lost?
 
I most certainly don't want to see them next to the mad Batarian prophet on Omega holding a sign "THE REAPERS ARE COMING!".

[Ariaya]

 Great Kaidan discussion this morning.  Ooh, and a few fics for me to catch up on.  Hurrah! I love lazy Saturday mornings.  I have to clean out my closets today and I don't want to!  As part of my procrastination I wrote a little piece of complete fluff this morning called "The Gift."  Please be forewarned--it's rated M.  (There is a lot of *cough* naked Kaidan in it.  <3)

Hope everyone has a good Sat.  I'm off to catch up on my Kaidan reading.

www.fanfiction.net/u/2478702/Natalie_Parr

[Jade5233]

Chignon wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

Chignon wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

ok..i put this on Ashley thread and will ask here too....after the Citadel and Normandy destruction...some were vocal about Reapers and Shepard mistreatment...like Joker,Gabby and Ken...some were not...and unfortunately...Kaidan/Ashley is one of them...they just took the promotion and went on with their life(i am not talking about mourning)...do they come as cold ?or we just don't know much info on that with the Virmire survivor...either way...makes for an interesting future storyline

No, I don't think cold is the right word for it. 
I think Joker made it very clear that the Alliance and the Council wanted to put aside everything Shepard had discovered about the Reapers. If Kaidan or Ashley would have acted the way, say Donnelly did, what would have happened to them?
Kaidan might have been declared mentally unstable, especially with him being a L2 biotic (they even doubt Shepard's sanity if you talk with them about the Reapers the first time you visit the Citadel in ME2) and Ashley would have been treated even worse considering her family's military history. 
On top of that,  they were grieving. I see Kaidan as someone who would bury themselves in work and the same goes for Ash to some extent - that's how I think they got the promotions. Not as a "reward" for keeping quiet. And who's to say that they didn't have a word with Anderson about it. Off the record, of course.

Not to mention that it is doubtful that they would have accomplished anyting with "being vocal".

         i didn't say their promotion was a reward for keeping quiet...but still...Kaidan just takes the promotion and goes..now..until we know more we don't know exactly what he..or Ash did after that..maybe they are doing something...and that is why we need a DLC...
        well others were vocal..and now they work with Shepard instead of thinking of ever seeing him/her again....and is their jobs more important then a threat that would destroy the Universe..?never understoo why Ash is so interested in making the Alliance happy..clearly they don't care much about her or her familly and never will...don't know much about Kaidan unfortunately

It just read like that was what you meant.  If they continued to push the issue with the Council or the Alliance, they might have been drummed out of service and they would have lost what little influence they had and a possible chance to somehow help Shepard later on.

Who would it help if they lost their career on top of everything else they've already lost?
 
I most certainly don't want to see them next to the mad Batarian prophet on Omega holding a sign "THE REAPERS ARE COMING!".

For Kaidan it would have been especially hard to be out of the service.  The more I read the books, the more I am shown how bad the prjudice against biotics is within the human race.
In the BAaT years, they manufactured erronious rumors about biotics and their danger to the general population so that parents would gladly give up their children to the program.
BAat is over, but the prejudice has not dissipated.  The media (movies, etc) also have perpetuated unrealistic portrayls of the things that biotics are capable of.
It would be very difficult for Kaidan out in civilian life.  Sure, he's got all kinds of great skills, but everywhere he'd go, there would be suspicion of him.  Esepcially since not only is he a biotic, but he's also an L2--the most notorious of the amps.

[KendallX23]

well Shepard seems to go outside normal...then again he/she is the main char so it's ok for him to go nuts,no ?

well as i said...dunno much about Kaidan but Ashley would be treated the same by the Alliance if she been vocal or not...her loyalty puzzles me and i am a fan...

well i guess Kaidan would be afraid of his reputation given he is biotic...but unless i know what he is doing for Anderson or the Council..or wherever he is working i'm gonna be suspicious....and as a side thing...my Sheps are always vocal and violent rather then stealthy(??) and diplomatic....i wanna make them pirates(Firefly anyone)

[Chignon]

KendallX23 wrote...

well Shepard seems to go outside normal...then again he/she is the main char so it's ok for him to go nuts,no ?
well as i said...dunno much about Kaidan but Ashley would be treated the same by the Alliance if she been vocal or not...her loyalty puzzles me and i am a fan...
well i guess Kaidan would be afraid of his reputation given he is biotic...but unless i know what he is doing for Anderson or the Council..or wherever he is working i'm gonna be suspicious....and as a side thing...my Sheps are always vocal and violent rather then stealthy(??) and diplomatic....i wanna make them pirates(Firefly anyone)

 Ash's family served the Alliance, she does as well - it's an obligation and a tradtition. She worked hard to get where she was when you picked her up on Eden Prime and probably even harder to get promoted.
Also, they both have a family to consider. What they do and how they behave might have consequences for them as well.

And you're suspicious of Kaidan? Why?

[Jade5233]

KendallX23 wrote...

well Shepard seems to go outside normal...then again he/she is the main char so it's ok for him to go nuts,no ?
well as i said...dunno much about Kaidan but Ashley would be treated the same by the Alliance if she been vocal or not...her loyalty puzzles me and i am a fan...
well i guess Kaidan would be afraid of his reputation given he is biotic...but unless i know what he is doing for Anderson or the Council..or wherever he is working i'm gonna be suspicious....and as a side thing...my Sheps are always vocal and violent rather then stealthy(??) and diplomatic....i wanna make them pirates(Firefly anyone)

Kaidan's moral compass is usually pretty good.  It doesn't always point straight north, but more so than any of the other squad members in the series (Tali is probably up there, too).  If he's going to do something shady (like steal the Normandy, for instance), its got to be the right thing to do--there has to be a darn good reason for it.  He's not prone to extremes--as you can see if your Shepard tends toward running over stray animals in the Mako or punching out people that are raving madmen. 

That being said, Anderson and Hackett also know this about him.  I certainly wouldn't put it past them to deceive Kaidan in order to manipulate him into their schemes.  I mean, we've already seen some evidence of that with Anderson and Kaidan.  So its possible for Kaidan to be doing the wrong thing unknowingly.

Can I just say again how I love the dichotomy of Kaidan--that he's a good man and yet a bad a** 

[KendallX23]

Chignon wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

well Shepard seems to go outside normal...then again he/she is the main char so it's ok for him to go nuts,no ?
well as i said...dunno much about Kaidan but Ashley would be treated the same by the Alliance if she been vocal or not...her loyalty puzzles me and i am a fan...
well i guess Kaidan would be afraid of his reputation given he is biotic...but unless i know what he is doing for Anderson or the Council..or wherever he is working i'm gonna be suspicious....and as a side thing...my Sheps are always vocal and violent rather then stealthy(??) and diplomatic....i wanna make them pirates(Firefly anyone)

 Ash's family served the Alliance, she does as well - it's an obligation and a tradtition. She worked hard to get where she was when you picked her up on Eden Prime and probably even harder to get promoted.
Also, they both have a family to consider. What they do and how they behave might have consequences for them as well.

And you're suspicious of Kaidan? Why?

     because i know nothing of him...he didn't make it to any ME2 i played...and in ME1 didn't speak much to him..and my squad was usually formed of Ash and Tali

[NICKjnp]

Finaly... a character in the ME universe that knows how to dance.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 18 septembre 2010 - 05:13 .

[Pups_of_war_76]

KendallX23 wrote...

ok..i put this on Ashley thread and will ask here too....after the Citadel and Normandy destruction...some were vocal about Reapers and Shepard mistreatment...like Joker,Gabby and Ken...some were not...and unfortunately...Kaidan/Ashley is one of them...they just took the promotion and went on with their life

What evidence do you have proving this?

Yeah, they didn't make a big ruckus and get drummed out of the service, but I'd think they would have at least tried to get something done through unofficial channels, the same way Anderson does.