63501 réponses à ce sujet

[FenrisDeSolar]

My mum doesn't like Kaidan. >_< She has a thing for Anderson, 'cuz she thinks he looks like her man (but he doesn't...¬_¬) but she hates everything that has to do with video-games anyway. I asked her to buy me ME2 when I didn't have money, and she bought me Anna Karennina. ¬_¬

[Chignon]

Brody posted a really interesting question in the VS DLC thread:

Brodyaha wrote...

By the by, how do you think Ashley or Kaidan would react to seeing Joker, potentially in DLC? Do you think they'd blame him for Shepard's death? What would you like to see in DLC?

What do think? How would Kaidan react to seeing Joker again?

I really hope they can work it out - one of the reasons I love ME1 so much is because of their banter in the opening scene.

Fanart ahead:

[FenrisDeSolar]

I dunno what Kaidan would do. Possibly just ignore Joker. Or be pissed off that he's got the nerve to be near Shepard, or something like that. Perhaps he'd do a Vyrnnus on him, but I most certainly hope not.



Ash might try to break his bones if she's romanced. If not, probably try to rational about it. I know she's a bit of a hothead, but she's not dumb nor evil.



But I definitely think there should be some tension there. I hate having to admit it, but it is undeniably Joker's fault that Shepard didn't make it the first time around. ¬_¬

[Elysis]

 Well, Joker was trying to save his precious Normandy. With all the adrenaline and stuff, he probably wasn't thinking that straight. I'd be more willing to blame the collectors/reapers. 

Kaidan would have probably blamed Joker at first, if you consider the 5 stages of grief. But then I think he would have rationalized and accepted everything. But he'd probably still be bitter about it.

@Fenris : Lol at the Anna Karenina incident! My mom is the exact same... She says I should focus more on RL relation ships rather then pixels! 

Modifié par Elysis, 25 septembre 2010 - 10:09 .

[Aggie Punbot]

Chignon wrote...
What do think? How would Kaidan react to seeing Joker again?

I don't think Kaidan would blame Joker. He didn't hold a grudge with turians over the Vyrnnus incident and I doubt he'd put the blame on Joker for Shepard's death. I would think that Joker would be the only one blaming himself for Shepard, and that's worse since you can't just run away from your own self hatred.

Horizon notwithstanding, Kaidan just doesn't strike me as someone who would deliberately try to hurt someone over their own mistakes. Kaidan regrets having accidentally killed Vyrnnus and one would assume Joker severely regrets not having left the ship sooner, but how was either of them to know what would happen? If anything, I expect Kaidan would probably try to comfort Joker by expresing to him that it was not his fault just like Ashley's death was not Shepard's fault.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 25 septembre 2010 - 10:19 .

[Selenora]

Chignon wrote...

We all know the picture gazing scene before the Suicide Mission, but what was going through your Shepard's head?





Also, regarding the picture on Shep's desk, I made this request in the Ash&Kaidan DLC thread:

Chignon wrote...

You know what I'd love to see? It's a bit more targeted towards the people who romanced Kaidan or Ashley:

If Shepard chose to stay faithful to Kaidan or Ash, I'd want them to notice the holo on Shepard's desk in her/his cabin on the Normandy.
They don't need to talk about it at length or mention it (even though that'd be nice), but we could see them glance at it. Just for them to realize that they are on the same ground and Shepard maybe hasn't moved on as much as nearly every conversation option on Horizon and later with TIM, Kelly or Joker seemed to imply.

I really, really want to see this.

FenrisDeSolar wrote...

Edit; @Chignon, well feep. I knew I should've payed moar attention in class. ¬_¬

It's alright. I don't blame you for making mistakes with a language that has sixteen ways to say "the" and "a".

this

[FireEye]

I think Kaidan would be more disappointed that Joker was with Cerberus this whole time than he would be with Joker over Shepard's death.

[FenrisDeSolar]

Elysis wrote...

 Well, Joker was trying to save his precious Normandy. With all the adrenaline and stuff, he probably wasn't thinking that straight. I'd be more willing to blame the collectors/reapers. 

Kaidan would have probably blamed Joker at first, if you consider the 5 stages of grief. But then I think he would have rationalized and accepted everything. But he'd probably still be bitter about it.

@Fenris : Lol at the Anna Karenina incident! My mom is the exact same... She says I should focus more on RL relation ships rather then pixels! 

As a trained Alliance soldier, I would've expected Joker to get over himself and get his sorry arse out of there. Now, I love Joker. He is my ALL-TIME favourite character. But it was still his fault. Yes, the collectors attacked, but Shepard could've and probably would've made it, if she didn't have to go save Joker.

As for Kaidan, we already knew he wasn't dealing well with Shep's death. He might've stopped consciously blaming Joker, but I don't believe for a second he's recovered all the way to a point of acceptance.

Edit: lol, this is late, but as for the Anna Karenina, it's not the first time. She's also given me Crime and Punishment, Emma, The Picture of Dorian Gray... Good stuff, but man, do I wish she'd just butt out? Yes. Yes, I do wish that.

Modifié par FenrisDeSolar, 25 septembre 2010 - 02:02 .

[Joisan]

I think that Kaidan would blame himself and Joker in equal measure. Himself because he would think that if he hadn't left, he might have been able to do something to change the outcome, and Joker because I think pretty much any way you cut it, if he had evacuated when he was told, Shepard almost certainly would have lived. You know, for all Bioware's talk about having choices that matter, they left out one really important choice. For a lot of Shepards, it may be very much in character for them to go after Joker. But I could definitely imagine some who would leave Joker if they could.

[sapphyreelf]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Chignon wrote...
What do think? How would Kaidan react to seeing Joker again?

I don't think Kaidan would blame Joker. He didn't hold a grudge with turians over the Vyrnnus incident and I doubt he'd put the blame on Joker for Shepard's death. I would think that Joker would be the only one blaming himself for Shepard, and that's worse since you can't just run away from your own self hatred.

I think that there would be a certain level of blame that Kaidan would direct at Joker, especially initially. I think Kaidan's emotions and blame towards Joker would be mingled with blaming himself though. After all, Kaidan followed orders and left, and if he hadn't, would he have been able to save Shepard? Would things have been different? Or would he have died too? I think Kaidan would question all of this, and Joker, unfortunately, would be an easy target to direct (misdirect) the anger at. Because if Joker had done what he should have done, then Kaidan wouldn't have to be questioning himself, blaming himself.

And in regards to the "not holding a grudge against the turians", we know he doesn't hold the grudge many years later. However, Kaidan admits that he went off the grid after Vyrnnus's death, and we have no idea what he was thinking then and if maybe he didn't just hold a grudge, harbor resentment then. He obviously worked it out in the end, but we don't know exactly how long it took for him. I think eventually Kaidan would come to terms that Joker isn't too blame, but I think he's human enough and angry enough about too much to not be mad with Joker.

[NamiraWilhelm]

Thats interesting. I hope that gets addressed, some tension between Joker and Kaidan could make for some interesting dialogue. Shepard would have to be the middle (wo)man, trying to sort it out, little will they know shes doing them both

[Chignon]

Joisan wrote...

I think that Kaidan would blame himself and Joker in equal measure. Himself because he would think that if he hadn't left, he might have been able to do something to change the outcome, and Joker because I think pretty much any way you cut it, if he had evacuated when he was told, Shepard almost certainly would have lived.

That's a good point, Joisan. I hadn't thought about it that way.

Joisan wrote...

You know, for all Bioware's talk about having choices that matter, they left out one really important choice. For a lot of Shepards, it may be very much in character for them to go after Joker. But I could definitely imagine some who would leave Joker if they could.

Most of it is just that, talk (sorry, Bioware).
What's even worse is that you can't address the matter with Joker in ME2 at all. I sure would've loved to. All you get is "It's been a long time, Commander, eh?". Wait, that sounds familiar ...

Modifié par Chignon, 25 septembre 2010 - 03:04 .

[Joisan]

@Chignon



Are you referring to

[Chignon]

Joisan wrote...

@Chignon

Are you referring to

*snip*

I love that motivational!

Me? No, how could I ever refer to that in character, fleshed out and multifaceted  conversation that covered everything I'd want my Shepard to talk about with Kaidan after being dead for two years?



Just imagine it with Kaidan.

[Joisan]

Why thank you! I made that motivational for Shenzi, who then took my words and inserted a picture of her own Shepard. She wrote an entire fic titled, "Just because Horizon was that bloody awful" and frankly, I think her alternate version of events would have made for a much more compelling ME2.

Oh, and I love that dialogue wheel!  All the things we wish we could have done but didn't have the chance to.

Modifié par Joisan, 25 septembre 2010 - 03:24 .

[Chignon]

You're welcome, Joisan. It's great and sums up what I felt in that moment in a few words.
Shenzi's story is great. And I have to agree with what Jho wrote some time ago: my Shepard would've probably clung to his leg instead of letting him leave, feeling betrayed and confused. And if he'd have to report back to Citadel like that then so be it.
(It would've made an interesting meeting, though. "Staff Commander Alenko, would you mind explaining why a former Spectre is hanging onto your leg?" )

Modifié par Chignon, 25 septembre 2010 - 04:14 .

[Shenzi]

Jo made that motivational for me knowing my feelings about Horizon, I just thought the adding the text highlighted the absurdity of Shepard's behavior.  And adding my own Shep into the picture made it that much more painful to look at.  I had a few spots playing ME2 where I was yelling at the sceen "what have you done to my Shepard!", however Horizon was the only one where I couldn't pounce on the reload option and avoid whatever triggered Shep's OOC behavior.

As far as Shepard's death and Joker go, I definitely believe that Kaidan would have blamed Joker for it, especially right after it happened, in addition to Kaidan having his own guilt for leaving her as ordered by his CO.   If Joker had gotten to the escape pod as ordered, then Shepard wouldn't have had to go after him. I think given some distance (and Shepard being alive again), he'd be able to put things in perspective more and direct his anger towards the Reapers who sent their flunkies out to destroy the SR1.

@Chignon - Love the dialogue wheel.

[fortunesque]

I think that Kaidan definitely blamed Joker for Shepard's death. Hell, I blame Joker for Shepard's death. When you're given an order to evacuate, you do it, goddammit >.>

[Chignon]

Shenzi wrote...
@Chignon - Love the dialogue wheel.

Thanks, but I can't take credit for it. Someone with talent in the Ash thread made it.

fortunesque wrote...

I think that Kaidan definitely blamed Joker for Shepard's death. Hell, I blame Joker for Shepard's death. When you're given an order to evacuate, you do it, goddammit >.>

While I do understand some of his behaviour - flying is his life after all - I would have liked to be able to talk with him about it when I first meet up with him after Freedom's Progress. But once again, no option was given. I hated the dialogue between Shepard and Joker. My Shepard would have never said what she is saying there. She probably would have been torn between wringing his neck and being glad he made it.

[fortunesque]

Chignon wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

I think that Kaidan definitely blamed Joker for Shepard's death. Hell, I blame Joker for Shepard's death. When you're given an order to evacuate, you do it, goddammit >.>

While I do understand some of his behaviour - flying is his life after all - I would have liked to be able to talk with him about it when I first meet up with him after Freedom's Progress. But once again, no option was given. I hated the dialogue between Shepard and Joker. My Shepard would have never said what she is saying there. She probably would have been torn between wringing his neck and being glad he made it.

I wanted the option to verbally rake him over the coals but it was just, "Hey buddy! Long time no see!" "Well howdy there, pal! I reckon we best get this ship a-going!"

/causeofdeathfail

[FenrisDeSolar]

I wanted the option to leave him on the bloody Normandy, as well as the option of telling of to f00k off and die when I meet him again, and the option to drag him to the cabin and uh... "Punish" him there. That's just me being a fangirl, though. o_O

[FireEye]

I think Joker may have been 'right' (so to speak) in staying in the cockpit - if only because his maneuvering might (not certain) have prolonged the Normandy's demise long enough for everyone to escape (or at least, the six who apparently made it).

I find the sequence a bit confusing though.  Everything is normal.  Then the Normandy is hit.  Then Kaidan is running through the ship in Phoenix armor (possibly through an open-to-space, non-fielded hull breach without a helmet, but that's just nitpickery on my part) looking for Shepard, apparently having had enough time to get suited *and* have an argument with Joker in the meanwhile *and* Shepard is just finishing getting dressed.

I mean, time lapses aside, if Kaidan thought Joker was a gonna be a problem, why not throw a stasis field on him and lift him out himself?  Or radio Shepard to save time?  Or... ... I'm not sure what was going on.  I need to stop thinking. 

But wait, why does Joker still need to be talked into going? 

[fortunesque]

Because he loves his ship even though the best pilot in the Alliance should know when to evacuate and should know that the evacuation order needs to be followed.



Honestly, it's a just poor plot device to kill Shepard off so that they can have the Council be derps.

[Chignon]

fortunesque wrote...

Chignon wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

I think that Kaidan definitely blamed Joker for Shepard's death. Hell, I blame Joker for Shepard's death. When you're given an order to evacuate, you do it, goddammit >.>

While I do understand some of his behaviour - flying is his life after all - I would have liked to be able to talk with him about it when I first meet up with him after Freedom's Progress. But once again, no option was given. I hated the dialogue between Shepard and Joker. My Shepard would have never said what she is saying there. She probably would have been torn between wringing his neck and being glad he made it.

I wanted the option to verbally rake him over the coals but it was just, "Hey buddy! Long time no see!" "Well howdy there, pal! I reckon we best get this ship a-going!"

/causeofdeathfail

What's it with repeated use of "How ya doin'? It's been too long?"-type of dialogue? They did it on Hoirzon, too. It doesn't get better the more you use it, Bioware.

FireEye wrote...
But wait, why does Joker still need to be talked into going? 

Shock maybe? Or he really is as confident (not to say overconfident) in his abilities as a pilot that he thinks he really can still save the Normandy.

FenrisDeSolar wrote...

I wanted the option to leave him on the bloody Normandy, as well as the option of telling of to f00k off and die when I meet him again, and the option to drag him to the cabin and uh... "Punish" him there. That's just me being a fangirl, though. o_O

But your idea of a punishment wouldn't be much of one to Joker, no?