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[Reverie]

TeenZombie wrote...

The problem with that is that the Liara DLC is a perfect example of how Kaidan and Ashley are definitely NOT being treated equally in comparison to the other love interests -- yeah, we got one line mentioning them -- *if* we chose the right dialogue option -- but when Liara asks what Shepard is fighting for, all other love interests are represented in choices, except for Kaidan or Ashley.    The writers of Liara's DLC saw that Liara fans wanted a chance to reconcile, and threw in extra dialogue for people with other love interests, but deliberately made a choice not to allow those of us staying faithful to have that same shout out.  Why should we have a positive outlook at the moment?

I do try to be hopeful, but there are moments that I feel like I'm being delusional.  I'd really like to be proven wrong.

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say. Although you said it a lot better then I could have.

[Chignon]

TeenZombie wrote...

Chignon wrote...

If the Liara DLC is anything to go by, they do. All we can do is hope that they are willing to put the same amount of work into Ash and Kaidan. They did make a statement in one of the threads, saying that all LIs are equally important to them and the story - but so far that is nothing more but pretty words.

The problem with that is that the Liara DLC is a perfect example of how Kaidan and Ashley are definitely NOT being treated equally in comparison to the other love interests -- yeah, we got one line mentioning them -- *if* we chose the right dialogue option -- but when Liara asks what Shepard is fighting for, all other love interests are represented in choices, except for Kaidan or Ashley.    The writers of Liara's DLC saw that Liara fans wanted a chance to reconcile, and threw in extra dialogue for people with other love interests, but deliberately made a choice not to allow those of us staying faithful to have that same shout out.  Why should we have a positive outlook at the moment?

I do try to be hopeful, but there are moments that I feel like I'm being delusional.  I'd really like to be proven wrong.

I agree, that's why I wrote that so far "all LIs are equal" is just words with nothing to back it up. Kaidan and Ash as well as their relationship with Shepard are constantly "forgotten about" in DLCs - see Kasumi, where there is no mention at all and as you mentioned LotSB, where the relationship status isn't acknowledged.

I never meant that you or anybody else "should have a positive outlook" on things at the moment. I was merely trying to say, that all we can effectively do is show our support and hope that Bioware will listen to Ashley and Kaidan fans as they have listened to Liara fans. A lot of things that were complained about the ME2 Liara was fixed or at least addressed in LotSB: the terminal hacking quests, Liara's personality change and so on.

I think the VS DLC thread - with now a good 60 pages - and the support threads are a good way to show Bioware that we did not forget about Ash and Kaidan.

If things didn't get across the way I intended to, I'm sorry. It is really hard for me to translate to a somewhat understandable English what I already formulated in my head in German.

Modifié par Chignon, 14 octobre 2010 - 12:08 .

[FireEye]

You would think that at least Liara would know about Kaidan (or Ashley) being your LI.  'Cause... they were kinda rivals for Shepard's affection and all that. 

Hrrm...



...

[syllogi]

Chignon wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Chignon wrote...

If the Liara DLC is anything to go by, they do. All we can do is hope that they are willing to put the same amount of work into Ash and Kaidan. They did make a statement in one of the threads, saying that all LIs are equally important to them and the story - but so far that is nothing more but pretty words.

The problem with that is that the Liara DLC is a perfect example of how Kaidan and Ashley are definitely NOT being treated equally in comparison to the other love interests -- yeah, we got one line mentioning them -- *if* we chose the right dialogue option -- but when Liara asks what Shepard is fighting for, all other love interests are represented in choices, except for Kaidan or Ashley.    The writers of Liara's DLC saw that Liara fans wanted a chance to reconcile, and threw in extra dialogue for people with other love interests, but deliberately made a choice not to allow those of us staying faithful to have that same shout out.  Why should we have a positive outlook at the moment?

I do try to be hopeful, but there are moments that I feel like I'm being delusional.  I'd really like to be proven wrong.

I agree, that's why I wrote that so far "all LIs are equal" is nothing more but words with nothing to back it up. Kaidan and Ash as well as their relationship with Shepard are constantly "forgotten about" in DLCs - see Kasumi, where there is no mention at all and as you mentioned LotSB, where the relationship status isn't acknowledged.

I never meant that you or anybody else "should have a positive outlook" on things at the moment. I was merely trying to say, that all we can effectively do is show our support and hope that Bioware will listen to Ashley and Kaidan fans as they have listened to Liara fans. A lot of things that were complained about the ME2 Liara was fixed or at least adressed in LotSB: the terminal hacking quests, Liara's personality change and so on.

I think the VS DLC thread - with now a good 60 pages - and the support threads are a good way to show Bioware that we did not forget about Ash and Kaidan.

If things didn't get across the way I intended to, I'm sorry. It is really hard for me to translate to a somewhat understandable English what I already formulated in my head in German.

No, I did get what you were saying, I was just elaborating on why *I* have a have a problem with the statement that "all LIs are being treated equally".  When I hear that being mentioned nowadays I have the urge to write walls of text, LOL.

[Chignon]

TeenZombie wrote...

No, I did get what you were saying, I was just elaborating on why *I* have a have a problem with the statement that "all LIs are being treated equally".  When I hear that being mentioned nowadays I have the urge to write walls of text, LOL.

Don't apologise! It's just me again, getting self-conscious about my English at times.

I understand your issues with this statement. I still hope Bioware will hold true to it despite their missed chances.

Modifié par Chignon, 14 octobre 2010 - 12:16 .

[Jade5233]

Chignon wrote...

avalon30 wrote...

Chignon wrote...

Something like that should have been in the main game in the first place. I love your idea, avalon. I really do.

Thanks and I agree; a reply should have been in the game.

It would be even better if Shepard read those lines aloud as she typed them. I would swoon for the sweetness of all the options my Shep would pick. And then I would go on youtube and giggle nervously as I listened in horror to somebody else's foolish Shep starting her message "Hey Jerkface..."

You really should post your idea to the VS DLC thread.

I was very disappointed when I realized that there was no way to get in contact with Kaidan before the Suicide Mission - for all we knew Shepard really could not have made it back and yet we did not even get to a chance to say or do something.
As many others have already said, it was very sad to see Shepard so isolated, as the only one who had essentially noone to turn to and the only one of the crew whose issues were left unresolved

Yeah.  I had a problem with my Shepard not being able to respond to Kaidan before going on that suicide mission, too.  A couple of nights it kept me up, my brain just thinking over and over what I would have her say to him.  Finally I got up and wrote the letter that she would have written to him if she could convince EDI to send it without TIM/Miranda knowing.  Now that letter's one of my stories. 

And I really would have liked your idea of response choices.  Gosh, I mean Shepard's with a spacer background couldn't even reply to their mother!

[Chignon]

avalon30 wrote...

^ i never get tired of Kaidan and Kaiden... more please

Kaiden is busy at the moment.

[Joisan]

Jade5233 wrote...
And I really would have liked your idea of response choices.  Gosh, I mean Shepard's with a spacer background couldn't even reply to their mother!

Yes, the no responding to e-mails really bugged me.  Which is why I wrote "Doubt Thou the Stars Are Fire" to answer the nagging need for closure with Mia and Kaidan, and "A Mother's Love" to provide some closure for Mia and Hannah.

[Reverie]

See that is what always makes me want to write out my Shepard's story. I want to go through both games again with her and write her story piece by piece as I slowly play it. I'm just afraid it won't turn out too well. I'm no writer. Not that I can type very well right now anyway! I sliced my finger open cutting up carrots.

[Jean]

TeenZombie wrote...

I have been guilty of leading Liara on in order to see the confrontation scene, and I think that if done well, it could be funny or even heartbreaking to have one in ME3 (I think this is inevitable, honestly).

What I don't care for is the bizarre scenarios people seem to want, in which their ME2 LI acts in a way that is wildly out of character, in order to feed their egos and punish the ME1 love interests. Before LotSB, I even saw people asking to be able to kill Liara...??? I haven't seen those kind of posts lately, but it's really weird to me, and pathetic. If you like your new LI, demanding that they act in a way that is OOC is doing them an injustice, and if you don't like the old LI, why would want them dead or physically harmed, just for being not to your personal taste? If I didn't care for Kaidan, and I preferred one of the ME2 LIs, it would be silly to focus any energy on him, instead of the new LI.

Those revenge fantasies should be kept to awful fanfiction. They can turn Kaidan into Ron the Death Eater over there and leave it out of ME3, please.

Shoot, I've seen people want to kill Ashley, Kaidan, Alistair, Morrigan, Carth, Liara, Jack, Miranda, Leliana and Wynne and male Hawke because he's male. It's a long sad list, but those ones get the worst kind of posts. I've seen some Morrigan hate posts to the point of obsession with their hatred and desire to kill her.

[Daewan]

Reverie wrote...

See that is what always makes me want to write out my Shepard's story. I want to go through both games again with her and write her story piece by piece as I slowly play it. I'm just afraid it won't turn out too well. I'm no writer. Not that I can type very well right now anyway! I sliced my finger open cutting up carrots.

Do it.  The first chapter is always the hardest, after that it gets easier and easier, until the next thing you know, people follow you around waiting for your next chapter and you're eagerly checking your inbox for reviews.  It's like drugs, without the risk of police getting involved.... wait... (*looks around suspiciously*)  Forget I said that.  Just go write something.

[Nightodie]

Daewan wrote...

Reverie wrote...

See that is what always makes me want to write out my Shepard's story. I want to go through both games again with her and write her story piece by piece as I slowly play it. I'm just afraid it won't turn out too well. I'm no writer. Not that I can type very well right now anyway! I sliced my finger open cutting up carrots.

Do it.  The first chapter is always the hardest, after that it gets easier and easier, until the next thing you know, people follow you around waiting for your next chapter and you're eagerly checking your inbox for reviews.  It's like drugs, without the risk of police getting involved.... wait... (*looks around suspiciously*)  Forget I said that.  Just go write something.

Write it, if just to get it out of your system.  The reviews are nice and all, but seeing your words in print is better.  Make sure you get a good beta.  Someone you can work with who actually likes your story.  Or even if they don't like your story (I annoy my beta) they are willing to tell you where you are going wrong and work with you to get it right (or in my case less cringeworthy).

One of my favorite reviews was someone who hated what I did in one chapter... I loved it.  To think that I could write something that prevoked such a reaction.  That meant a lot.  I don't look for the reviews like most people but I will agree with Dae on one point, it is nice to get them. 

You don't have to publish it, you can always write it for yourself.  I actually have a fic that I write just for myself, that I call Not For Publish or NFP where I put all the crazy stuff that my muse thinks up that is way off kilter or out of bounds or too narcissistic for publishing.  How crazy... try attacked by a zombie and then reading Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy to them.  Yeah that is what NFP is for, when I am having a really bad time I retreat there.
 
The most important thing is to write what you like, because when you don't like it so much it becomes a chore.  I had that happen to me for a while and I had to get it back.  That is how my third fic started (yet unpublished but it already has some fans)  I was trying to get the joy in writing back. 

Okay that was probably TMI ... the point is have fun!!!

I am going to retreat back into my hole.  It's dark there, but everyone likes me and all is fair in the world... and there is Kaidan.  Lots of Kaidan.

/uploads_user/1621000/1620963/37571.jpg

[Reverie]

Thanks guys. I'll give it a shot once my finger has healed. See how the first chapter or two seems and go from there!

Another thing.. has anyone seen this comic? Made me   a little.

uglynoodles.deviantart.com/#/d30ppe2

[Chignon]

Reverie wrote...

Thanks guys. I'll give it a shot once my finger has healed. See how the first chapter or two seems and go from there!

Another thing.. has anyone seen this comic? Made me   a little.

uglynoodles.deviantart.com/#/d30ppe2

Yep, she updated. I love the new page:

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Hello Kaidan fangirls.

I'm been thinking about writing a fanfic (Maleshep/Liara FYI) but I need some advice. The first chapter is more or less the aftermath of the SR-1 destruction, and how the survivors deal with the loss of Shepard. But more importantly I wanted to write the part when the survivors where gathered around the last escape pod which has just landed , only to see Joker being the only one to crawl out of it.

So the question I have is (and the reason I made this post).

How did Kaidan react when he found out Joker got Shepard killed?

Now Kaidan always seemed to me as a pretty cool headed person, not one to snap when under stress. But I could see him as being pissed off at Joker for getting Shepard killed. Even if the Shepard in question was nothing more than just a well respected co-worker. Or would that seem OOC? The reason i'm asking is because I think you folks would have a better imagination and understanding of the character.

And on a related note: If both Navigator Pressly and Shepard died during the Collector suprise, wouldn't that mean that Alenko would be the person in charge of the SR-1 survivors?

[HighMoon]

I don't imagine him being pissed off at Joker, or anyone on the Normandy. He's not that type of guy. Just very sorrowful that Shepard has died. If he was angry at anyone, it would be whatever/whoever it was that destroyed the ship.

[Star]

@ Lizardviking: it seems reasonable that Kaidan would end up organizing the groundteam prior to rescue of the Normandy's survivors.

A lot of fic seems to write him as becoming very distraught but generally withdrawing from others, isolating himself and his feelings. I would tend to see him as someone who does isolate himself but also not acknowledging his feelings so much -- really more that he would throw himself into work as a way of avoiding thinking about his sadness. It's a pretty typical response to trauma actually and I've seen it frequently in RL work, particularly with men and with soldiers.

So my own take is that he's a very controlled person. He learned to be controlled after killing Vyrnus and has maintained a high level of control -- he acknowledges this in ME1 in fact. So after Shep dies, I don't see him as going nuclear with Joker, particularly at first. More likely (imo) his response would be far less dramatic - he would be more likely to withdraw, focus on survival, retrieval, work. He would be numb and actually might prefer to remain that way, thus staying busy becomes very important.

I would bet that he blames Joker but probably doesn't say anything to him for several reasons -- first it's too painful to pull out and examine, second, he's very self-controlled so he probably won't let himself lose his temper even though this is an extreme situation and third, by the time he's had a chance to process a bit, Joker may have left the Alliance so they are no longer in contact. This doesn't mean he doesn't resent Joker. Also, I note that after Shep returns to the ship from Horizon, Joker talks about how good it was to see Kaidan again which to me at least, indicates they hadn't had any sort of blow up.

Even though Kaidan's response on Horizon speaks of deeper feelings, I think it's reasonable simply because he's had time to process some of his feelings, making it easier for him to actually say something.

Now I know this isn't nearly as dramatic as most of us like to think about for our fics but I tend to think it's more realistic. But again, this is what I see over and over again in RL with guys like Kaidan....

Modifié par Star58, 14 octobre 2010 - 01:17 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I only think Kaidan becomes isolated and withdrawn if the Shepard in
question is a femshep who romanced him, I also think he would be alot
more angrier at Joker then. He would still be upset and bitter at Joker
if Shep was just a friend, but I think he would come to terms with the
whole ordeal alot quicker.

Star58 wrote...

@ Lizardviking: it seems reasonable that Kaidan would end up organizing the groundteam prior to rescue of the Normandy's survivors.

A lot of fic seems to write him as becoming very distraught but generally withdrawing from others, isolating himself and his feelings. I would tend to see him as someone who does isolate himself but also not acknowledging his feelings so much -- really more that he would throw himself into work as a way of avoiding thinking about his sadness. It's a pretty typical response to trauma actually and I've seen it frequently in RL work, particularly with men and with soldiers.

So my own take is that he's a very controlled person. He learned to be controlled after killing Vyrnus and has maintained a high level of control -- he acknowledges this in ME1 in fact. So after Shep dies, I don't see him as going nuclear with Joker, particularly at first. More likely (imo) his response would be far less dramatic - he would be more likely to withdraw, focus on survival, retrieval, work. He would be numb and actually might prefer to remain that way, thus staying busy becomes very important.

I would bet that he blames Joker but probably doesn't say anything to him for several reasons -- first it's too painful to pull out and examine, second, he's very self-controlled so he probably won't let himself lose his temper even though this is an extreme situation and third, by the time he's had a chance to process a bit, Joker may have left the Alliance so they are no longer in contact. This doesn't mean he doesn't resent Joker. Also, I note that after Shep returns to the ship from Horizon, Joker talks about how good it was to see Kaidan again which to me at least, indicates they hadn't had any sort of blow up.

Even though Kaidan's response on Horizon speaks of deeper feelings, I think it's reasonable simply because he's had time to process some of his feelings, making it easier for him to actually say something.

Now I know this isn't nearly as dramatic as most of us like to think about for our fics but I tend to think it's more realistic. But again, this is what I see over and over again in RL with guys like Kaidan....

That's a good theory. Aside from the very last point about Joker last meeting Alenko being on good terms, I think the reason Joker went all "It must have been good to see him again" was because he didn't want to upset Shepard.

[JaerWolfe]

Lizardviking wrote...
I only think Kaidan becomes isolated and withdrawn if the Shepard in question is a femshep who romanced him, I also think he would be alot more angrier at Joker then. He would still be upset and bitter at Joker if Shep was just a friend, but I think he would come to terms with the whole ordeal alot quicker.

That's an interesting point, and one I agree with. I tend to think of Kaidan as romanced rather than bromanced...can't imagine why...but in a bromance situation Kaidan would be more likely to express his anger vocally and to an extent, physically...ie shoving, hitting a wall, etc. It's more of an accepted social norm for men who are friends to express anger at the hurt/death of another male they are close to rather than tears or doing something that can be perceived as 'girly'.

re: Joker and Kaidan...since Kaidan seems to be one to deal with things and get on with his life, Joker is more of the unknown quantity there. Joker's actions/reactions could be what set the pace for that relationship. Also, Joker quitting the Alliance to join Cerberus would undoubtedly cause additional friction, but the timeline on that is months out from the crash.

And yes, Kaidan's rank puts him in charge of the survivors until someone of higher rank arrives or he is declared medically unfit to hold the position.

Modifié par JaerWolfe, 14 octobre 2010 - 02:29 .