63501 réponses à ce sujet

[mllrthyme]

Yeah, I hated Horizon mainly because all the dialogue options suck. My Shep wouldn't stand there like an idiot while her Kaidanz called her a traitor and walk off.



On a side note, I love your name - it always makes me, ahem, giggle manically.

[Giggles_Manically]

mllrthyme wrote...

Yeah, I hated Horizon mainly because all the dialogue options suck. My Shep wouldn't stand there like an idiot while her Kaidanz called her a traitor and walk off.

On a side note, I love your name - it always makes me, ahem, giggle manically.

Its just a bad habit I have in shooting games when doing multiplayer.

Right before I snipe someone, or assassinate them I let out a small laugh, or giggle.
Its controlled right now, but sometimes in ME2 I go:
WHHHEEEEEEEEE!
Whilst playing a Vanguard. Turning 20 in a few months, and still act like a ten year old, mama must be so proud.


But yes Horizon REALLY bugs me, as its a pathetic attempt at drama, and removes any player agency from my hands and totally ruins immersion. 
Shep can explain him/herself to anyone else in the galaxy, except to the VS.
Fail
Total 
EPIC 
FAIL. 

[sagefic]

fortunesque wrote...

He's a little too idealistic and softspoken at times. I get the impression that he's too nice on people that need some tough love- look at how he continually excuses the Council in ME1. He's probably doing the same kind of excusing for the Alliance in ME2.

fortunesque wrote...

Yes, I get the impression that he finds it difficult to let people in. He holds people at arm's length

I am reading these statements of yours fort, back to back, and I totally agree with them both.Yet, it also strikes me that these are sort of paradoxical, no? Kaidan is an idealist and has this infinite faith in people - yet he has a hard time letting people in. He lets Shepard in, yet doesn't extend that infinite faith to Shepard when she/he joins Cerberus - probably BECAUSE he let her/him in?

On this intuitive level, it make sense, but I can't quite explain why. Mebbe someone else can?

[Giggles_Manically]

The reason I think that Kaidan blows up on Horizon is this:
He hears rumors that Shep is alive and kicking, but working for Cerberus. He thinks to himself "no the Shepard I knew would not work for them" and he believes this, even if he has some doubts.

Horizon happens, and we all know that he hates to lose people (comments in ME1), when he comes to he sees either his best friend/commander/lover standing there. When he is relived at first, he has his world shattered when he learns that shep is indeed working for cerberus.

To lose his faith in a person, and see them turn against what he valued totally shatters his worldview in a few moments and leaves him wounded. Because Shepard became so close to him her/his working with Cerberus is even worse for him. With Shepard not saying anything helpful, or something downright dumb (final Paragon line) he cant accept it and leaves.

We are for more hurt when a person we KNOW does something bad, then when someone we hardly know does something we dont expect.

That is at least how I read the situation.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 27 octobre 2010 - 08:25 .

[mineralica]

Horizon is emotionally strongest mission for me. Make it on hardcore/vanguard at first playthrough was hard, and suspitions about Kaidan's fate (**** you Illusive man for "they hunt him to get you) didn't make it easier. Seeing Collectors' ship leaving colony without any evidence about VS was awful. So I totally understand why Shepard had so weak speech - my own hands shivered at that moment.

[Nightodie]

I am sorry, I just can't... not again... sorry. 


/uploads_user/1621000/1620963/32226.jpg

[mllrthyme]

sagequeen wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

He's a little too idealistic and softspoken at times. I get the impression that he's too nice on people that need some tough love- look at how he continually excuses the Council in ME1. He's probably doing the same kind of excusing for the Alliance in ME2.

fortunesque wrote...

Yes, I get the impression that he finds it difficult to let people in. He holds people at arm's length

I am reading these statements of yours fort, back to back, and I totally agree with them both.Yet, it also strikes me that these are sort of paradoxical, no? Kaidan is an idealist and has this infinite faith in people - yet he has a hard time letting people in. He lets Shepard in, yet doesn't extend that infinite faith to Shepard when she/he joins Cerberus - probably BECAUSE he let her/him in?

On this intuitive level, it make sense, but I can't quite explain why. Mebbe someone else can?

Aha! *lightbulb goes off*  I will attempt!

Best guess - Kaidan is too nice to people, be it the council or even defending the actions of Vyrnnus (sp), because it's easier to believe in good intentions.  Idealism can make it easy to ignore unpleasantness (denial is so much fun).  If he gets close and let's someone in, he will be exposed to their flaws and annoying habits, thus leading to a cognitive shift and dissection of original appraisal.  I think the best way to explain his actions on Horizon (other than a facepalm) was that he was upset with Shepard because he let her in. Now he has to rework his current beliefs because her reappearance and cooperation with Cerberus throws a wrench into his current cognitive schema.

Edit: ninja'd. 

Modifié par mllrthyme, 27 octobre 2010 - 08:34 .

[Elysis]

@Night : I never get tired of this comic. Mostly because that's EXACTLY what happened to me. Yes, including the tears XD

Also, I just wanted to put it out there : No Love achievement for ME2 on my side. It is staying locked till the end of time!

Modifié par Elysis, 27 octobre 2010 - 08:35 .

[Giggles_Manically]

 Thats awesome, sad, and relevant all at the same time Night.
That was not my exact reaction though to Horizon though: THIS was far closer to it:

Followed by this:

[fortunesque]

sagequeen wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

He's a little too idealistic and softspoken at times. I get the impression that he's too nice on people that need some tough love- look at how he continually excuses the Council in ME1. He's probably doing the same kind of excusing for the Alliance in ME2.

fortunesque wrote...

Yes, I get the impression that he finds it difficult to let people in. He holds people at arm's length

I am reading these statements of yours fort, back to back, and I totally agree with them both.Yet, it also strikes me that these are sort of paradoxical, no? Kaidan is an idealist and has this infinite faith in people - yet he has a hard time letting people in. He lets Shepard in, yet doesn't extend that infinite faith to Shepard when she/he joins Cerberus - probably BECAUSE he let her/him in?

On this intuitive level, it make sense, but I can't quite explain why. Mebbe someone else can?

I think he has faith in the establishment rather than individuals, who are able to make countless mistakes. But when it comes to trusting people with things that are personal to him- his heart, emotions, personal experiences- he is much more reserved and hesitant. 

Things that are work related are his domain; matters of the heart don't seem to come as easily to him. Things that are logical and make sense- the good of the Council, their (and the Alliance as well) desire to do the right thing- are the things he trusts in. 

[mllrthyme]

@ Giggles - yes. Exactly. I read that damn email so many times.

[Giggles_Manically]

mllrthyme wrote...

@ Giggles - yes. Exactly. I read that damn email so many times.

Glad that my Femsheps read it differently then I do.

Honestly, Bioware just wrote them to leave a way out for people after Horizon, and it made the emails weaker for it.

[sagefic]

^ that makes a lot of sense, fort

[Elysis]

Even without the email, my FemSheps would have stayed faithful.

[Giggles_Manically]

Elysis wrote...

Even without the email, my FemSheps would have stayed faithful.

It would not make good RP sense for my Shepards though.
I would know that its a game device but they would not.

[sagefic]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Honestly, Bioware just wrote them to leave a way out for people after Horizon, and it made the emails weaker for it.

this.

it's stupid, too. because of course we have to make kaidan/ashley the villain so that shepard can move on. shepard would be the bad guy/girl if he/she just decided breaking regs had been a mistake and they really liked someone else more, right? so we have to make the other half of the couple the bad guy, so shepard can be totally blameless, as always.

*rolls eyes*

have i ever mentioned that i find perfect, faultless shepard incredibly boring? well, i do.

edit: incidentally, sialater, this is why i like "loved" - meghan just owns up to the fact she moved on and she doesn't (completely) blame kaidan for it.

Modifié par sagequeen, 27 octobre 2010 - 08:50 .

[Elysis]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

It would not make good RP sense for my Shepards though.
I would know that its a game device but they would not.

And so what? The love of your life walks away from you because you're working for terrorists and you're suppose to throw yourself at some random crew member?
When it comes to my FemShep, it's too early to get together with someone else, the wound is too fresh. And if she had not gotten the email, she would still believe and hope for better days when it comes to her lover boy.

[Giggles_Manically]

I do have one Shep who moved on from Kaidan to Garrus.



Anna was not happy about Horizon, and was more angry that Kaidan would not listen to her. When his email did finally show up (I had some issue with it taking a LONG time to work, until I reinstalled the game) she still was angry and threw the email out half way through.



It suprised me how angry she was. She was a Colonial-Sole Survivor and seeing Kaidan leave her, and not be sure about it ended it right there.



Where as Jenna (spacer-sole survior) saw Kaidan trying not to hurt himself again and loved the email. Still waiting for him as well.



I get into my PCs heads to much, but it suprised me where at one point the email made me angry, but at another I could see it from a different angle.

[Jean]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

 Thats awesome, sad, and relevant all at the same time Night.
That was not my exact reaction though to Horizon though: THIS was far closer to it:

That looked like me through some parts of the game. But I was mostly

[Loki330]

Gotta say, with my sheps (especially my maleshep who had a Totally Flaming Bromance with him), their reactions to Kaiden yelling at them is a simple 'Well f**k you too.'

Then again I never really bonded with Ashley or Kaiden my first two playthroughs.

It depends how your shepard works obiously, however with one I had in mind with a Colonist/Sole survivor I had originally planned to hook up with Kaiden, she'd let him in, but horizon would have hurt her and she'd never let him (or probably anyone else) in afterwards. So that didn't work out. (She ended up not ooking up with anyone, but fell in love with Kelly, so here's hoping that's going to count for ME3)

Anyways, this is a rather roundabout way of saying I'm doing an earthborn/ruthless (yay overused combos) because I've never used either of them in a playthrough before and I'm thinking of bangi-erm, romancing, Kaiden. I'd rather not trawl through 2.4k pages to try and find pointers/hooks to help me get attached to him so can yu chuck me some pointers please? I know he's pretty savvy and jaded after his experiences in braincamp and the 'I killed the nasty turian and my girlfriend hated me' angle but honestly, it sin't enough. I still spend ages trying to pick between the two on virmire simply because I've failed so miserably at liking either of them I honestly wouldn't care if I had to leave both of them. That's right, Ashley and Kaiden are like Jacob. So once again, help me get some attachment please!

Modifié par Loki330, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:01 .

[fortunesque]

Try renegading him. It adds some interesting changes to his character.



I understand where you're coming from about not getting into characters; I'm the same way with Garrus and Tali.

[Chignon]

fortunesque wrote...

Try renegading him. It adds some interesting changes to his character.

I was about to suggest the same. If you do, he doesn't excuse the Council as much as he did in previous conversations with Shepard and becomes more decisive.

I understand where you're coming from about not getting into characters; I'm the same way with Garrus and Tali.

And here I thought I was the only one ...

Modifié par Chignon, 27 octobre 2010 - 11:01 .

[Chignon]

This page has a serious lack of Kaidan.



Better.

[Shenzi]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

 Thats awesome, sad, and relevant all at the same time Night.
That was not my exact reaction though to Horizon though: THIS was far closer to it:

Followed by this:

The top one was my reaction to hearing Shep say "I want to know about you Jacob" and the bottom one was my reaction to Shep's craptastic dialogue on Horizon.

[Reverie]

I don't know. The line (paraphrasing here) "But I was in a coma" always makes me laugh.