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[Giggles_Manically]

Urr i hate Horizon so much.



Shep either comes off as a:

Cerberus lap dog or a complete idiot.

Or both in bad cases.

[Chignon]

I tried my best to pick options that are less stupid than the other ones. Which is actually nearly impossible. /:

[Jade5233]

Elysis wrote...

Jade5233 wrote...

Hi Felinu

Just letting you all know that I've updated R&R this morning. And those of you who like the sekrit thread will like this.  Actually, anyone who'd like to see Kaidan hot & bothered will like this. 
http://www.fanfictio...s/6283627/10/RR

Great stuff - As always!!! 

thanks, Elysis.  I'm glad you liked it. 

[FireEye]

Chignon wrote...

Speaking of Horizon, I uploaded my canon playthrough of Horizon with my FemShep. If anyone's interested, you can watch it here!

Kaidan: "I wanted to believe the rumors that you were alive, but I never expected anything like this."

[Reaction shot: Shepard, flanked by a half-naked, body tattooed woman and an scientific salarian secret agent in his autumn years.]

Somehow, I don't think anyone expected that, Kaidan.  XD

[Selenora]

Chignon wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

This looks awesome, although he looks kind of angry (I don't blame him, after Horizon...).  I would be very, very happy if we got him in dress blues in DLC or ME3. 

I love this picture.

Speaking of Horizon, I uploaded my canon playthrough of Horizon with my FemShep. If anyone's interested, you can watch it here!

Every time i watch the scene in horizon i act like Joker in his small side quest: s***t. s**t, s**t..........s**t......s**t

[Nightodie]

Okay as for this....

/uploads_user/1621000/1620963/60033.jpg

I don't pay well with others....

[syllogi]

Yet another "Who is your favorite love interest?" poll here: http://social.biowar...25/polls/12209/



It's like those "which Hogwarts House do you belong to?" or "what is your D&D alignment?" type questionnaires, they don't *mean* anything, but if you put it in front of me, I have to take them...

[Chignon]

Another poll with "Kaiden" as an option. It's Kaidan. With an "a". How hard can it be to spell his name correctly?

[Sorrel]

I kind of just want to chew on that Horizon armour.

Like, nammanammanamm.

[dirae]

I look down for like, a second and 10 pages get added

Es'cuze me while I get all caught up!

[dirae]

fortunesque wrote...

Yeah, some parts of the forums are really ridiculous so I stay here. I've often referred myself to a "Kaidan Justicar- rarely venturing outside of Kaidan space"

Yes. MOTTO
SOMEONE slap that on a shirt!

Giggles_Manically wrote...



The reason I think that Kaidan blows up on Horizon is this:
He
hears rumors that Shep is alive and kicking, but working for Cerberus.
He thinks to himself "no the Shepard I knew would not work for them"
and he believes this, even if he has some doubts.

Horizon
happens, and we all know that he hates to lose people (comments in
ME1), when he comes to he sees either his best friend/commander/lover
standing there. When he is relived at first, he has his world shattered
when he learns that shep is indeed working for cerberus.

To lose
his faith in a person, and see them turn against what he valued totally
shatters his worldview in a few moments and leaves him wounded. Because
Shepard became so close to him her/his working with Cerberus is even
worse for him. With Shepard not saying anything helpful, or something
downright dumb (final Paragon line) he cant accept it and leaves.

We are for more hurt when a person we KNOW does something bad, then when someone we hardly know does something we dont expect.

That is at least how I read the situation.

Its so simple and it makes so much sense. I don't get why people get mad at Kaidan and Ashley when they really ought to focus on how badly Shepard reacts in those scenes.

I agree 100% and I'd like to add that when you're in a situation when someone has to explain themselves, and they mostly stand there mutely-- well, it can be pretty infuriating. Like, who is this mute zombie just staring at me while I question them-- where the heck is the person I know?

Shep has been gone (technically missing for 2 years) so Kaidan/Ashley are in the very difficult position of having to mourn without mourning. Questions have hung in the air for  2 years. The most important person in their life is gone, and the rest of the universe just moves on because it doesn't care. It's one famous person, but still just one person. So they have to go on too, or at least put on the semblance of moving on. They've got their nosed down, workin' at that grindstone, and suddenly they look up and everything is different again.

The first time I played ME2, I was surprised that my Shep didn't have her lip scar and eyebrow scar she had all during the first game. It makes sense, all her tissues were reformed.  He would have gotten to know that scarred face very well, and it bugs me now that he doesn't comment on the change in some way. For all he knows this Shepard is a clone. If someone came back slightly different and just said "How've you been?" it would just be disturbing. You'd have to kind of yell at that person, get a rise out of them and try to provoke a reaction that you'd recognize.

Phew! Finally got that out of my system.

Modifié par dirae, 01 novembre 2010 - 11:54 .

[sagefic]

TeenZombie wrote...

Yet another "Who is your favorite love interest?" poll here: http://social.biowar...25/polls/12209/

It's like those "which Hogwarts House do you belong to?" or "what is your D&D alignment?" type questionnaires, they don't *mean* anything, but if you put it in front of me, I have to take them...

lol. SO true. i'm the same way.

Modifié par sagequeen, 02 novembre 2010 - 12:35 .

[Loki330]

Well, I figure I'd give you guys a bit of an update of my ME1 playthrough. I've done a few side-quests and Noveria (Liara's gonna love me when I rescue her...) but I've tried to make sure he's been in the group the whole time. I had this idea that I could get to know more of his personality with the comments he makes in group. First romance dialogue was interesting because he was alot chattier than when I remember it last time...



erm, anyways, yeah, he's definately growing on me and my engineer. Not sure what class I'll be playing for the one where I hook up with Jack; I tried infiltrator and I found them really boring. Then again, I seem to have a knack for headshotting me ME2 and that's as a vanguard/soldier without the Infiltrator's time dilation!

[fortunesque]

Good to hear that you're warming up to him



I usually run vanguard in both games. I love using the power wheel/

[magelet]

Chignon wrote...
Speaking of Horizon, I uploaded my canon playthrough of Horizon with my FemShep. If anyone's interested, you can watch it here!

Aww, your Shepard is really cute!
I really hate the Horizon conversation though.  It always seemed like just an excuse to get rid of Kaidan/Ashley for a while.

[Giggles_Manically]

magelet wrote...

Chignon wrote...
Speaking of Horizon, I uploaded my canon playthrough of Horizon with my FemShep. If anyone's interested, you can watch it here!

Aww, your Shepard is really cute!
I really hate the Horizon conversation though.  It always seemed like just an excuse to get rid of Kaidan/Ashley for a while.

Its weird that out of the rest of your crew they are the ONLY ones to not trust you.
Tali, Garrus, Anderson, Wrex, and Chakwas all trust you.

But not them.

[magelet]

I know! Tali has some reservations about it, but is like well, whatever. Garrus is busy trying not to die and Wrex is just like "Hey friend! :3"

And then the excuse that Kai/Ash gives is that working with Cerberus is betraying the Alliance...Joker and Chakwas didn't seem to think so though. Meh. I suppose that's what the writers had to do to ensure that the VS would be in the next game. But that doesn't make me like it any more.

[Giggles_Manically]

The number ONE reason that Kaidan didnt make me mad:

I FOOKING AGREED WITH HIM!.



Honestly the Cerberus railroading drove me nuts, telling TIM off made me happy (even though the DLCs do NOT reflect that). Cant wait to get back to kicking Reaper ass with someone who dosent have issues sticking out of every convo.



Besides he can join me as I bring a "Righteous F-ing Hammer" down on TIM's head.

[dirae]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The number ONE reason that Kaidan didnt make me mad:
I FOOKING AGREED WITH HIM!.

Honestly the Cerberus railroading drove me nuts, telling TIM off made me happy (even though the DLCs do NOT reflect that).

Amen to that. Cerberus is a terrorist organization. Some select divisions do some good. Some divisions of it do evil. But I just think the people who defend it are misguided. Kelly, Miranda. Both misguided.  Yeah, Cerberus isn't always commiting some atrocity, but its very much like the saying "Robbing Peter to pay Paul" or what is the saying? "One hand washing the other?"  "One hand hiding some dastardly thing from another?" It'll come to me later. But yeah, basically that stuff.

I don't judge Shepard or anyone in her squad for working with them because its the only option to stop the Reapers. But let's call a spade a spade here.

[Loki330]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

magelet wrote...

Chignon wrote...
Speaking of Horizon, I uploaded my canon playthrough of Horizon with my FemShep. If anyone's interested, you can watch it here!

Aww, your Shepard is really cute!
I really hate the Horizon conversation though.  It always seemed like just an excuse to get rid of Kaidan/Ashley for a while.

Its weird that out of the rest of your crew they are the ONLY ones to not trust you.
Tali, Garrus, Anderson, Wrex, and Chakwas all trust you.

But not them.

Heck, I'm iffy Anderson is happy to see you. My female vanguard's noted that out of everyone who's genuinely happy t see her (and willing to show it) it's the aliens.

I have to say, as blatant as the 'Keeping human LI out of ME2 for ME3' it is, my indifference to Ashley/Kaiden (though as mentioned, I'm warming up to him. That wisecrack about asiris in pinstripes being on fetish sites made me laugh) even I'm not bothered by them exploding at you. You're friend/idol/lover has been gone for 2 years, you've thought they were dead, and then they randomly appear with a 'Hi, been a while.' All Sheperd needs is that damned trollface.jpg when they say that to them.
Then there's the whole sheperd died. It's never made a big deal of beyond a log by Wilson in the tutorial, erm, sorry, Lazerus station where Wilson says 'This is the greatest medical achievement in history'. And he's right, they brought someone back from the frakkan dead. That's a pretty fantastic thing, one that stretches credulity so yeah, my reaction to virmire the first time when they stomped off was 'Well f**k you too' but I wasn't mad at them myself, just more dismissive.

[dirae]

Loki330 wrote...
My female vanguard's noted that out of everyone who's genuinely happy t see her (and willing to show it) it's the aliens.

I'm not bothered by them exploding at you. You're friend/idol/lover has been gone for 2 years, you've thought they were dead, and then they randomly appear with a 'Hi, been a while.' All Sheperd needs is that damned trollface.jpg when they say that to them.
Then there's the whole sheperd died. It's never made a big deal of beyond a log by Wilson in the tutorial, erm, sorry, Lazerus station where Wilson says 'This is the greatest medical achievement in history'. And he's right, they brought someone back from the frakkan dead. That's a pretty fantastic thing, one that stretches credulity so yeah, my reaction to virmire the first time when they stomped off was 'Well f**k you too' but I wasn't mad at them myself, just more dismissive.

The way I see it is this: At least in the human-based parts of the galaxy, Shepard isn't dead. Its rumored but not common knowledge that Shepard is MIA, (strongly assumed dead). As I said before, Kaidan and Ash are in the difficult position of having to mourn and yet NOT mourn. No funeral. No closure. No facebook post.

The aliens "Who are happy to see her and willing to show it"
1. Garrus-- holding back a literal siege--  thus in no position to turn away help. (not that he'd be pissy with Shepard in any situation, IMO)

2.  Liara-- Already long acquainted with the notion of Shepard being alive/semi-alive-- almost dead, and brough back,.

3. Tali--- see #1

4. Wrex-- doesn't really occur to him that Shep wouldn't have survived. What? Doesn't everyone have secondary-tertiary organs? Is surprised to hear otherwise.

Yeah, they're happy, but they're in a completely different standpoint. All of the Alien's lives have been in flux, dynamic. Big things have been happening. Liara is waging war on the Broker, Tali is trying to come into her own as a leader/sent on missions about dying stars. Garrus is taking on Omega. Wrex is trying to unite his race.

And then there's Ash and Kaidan who kept their heads down, and focused on their careers. Its more jarring for them when they see Shep.  All they did for 2 years? Work, train, buy groceries, go to bed, get up early, and do it all again the next day. Tedium, hassling colonists, red-tape, technical issues. They've kept busy, but they're emotionally arrested.  When Shep comes back, its more of a mind-f^ck for them.

  first time when they stomped off was 'Well
f**k you too' but I wasn't mad at them myself, just more dismissive

I could understand that. But still, from another POV, Shep says they brought her back- but its a brief comment. No real explanation, no context. What would that even mean to someone who has no clue what's going on? Is Shepard using hyperbole? Was she really dead? There's no way to get it unless you saw what happened or you were in the lazarus lab.

What really brought it home for me was, I read an awesome fanfic that I cannot seem to find again. Kaidan has confronted Shepard with all his pent up frustration and angst and lust and anger and shame. He's still untrusting-- doesn't know for sure if its his Shep, or a clone, or even if she's her, but changed for the worst. And Shepard just takes off her shirt and shows Kaidan all her scars and where the gaps in the skin show the cybernetics holding her body together. She explains what it felt like to die
"losing air and all I can think is '**** **** ****"  Being concious and aware until the very end.

Kaidan then loses his ****. Doesn't want to hear it because its maybe worse than his worst speculation, and its real.

Anyone know which fic I'm talking about?

anywhoo, the point being that extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof, and all that.  Saying "I got better" just isn't  gonna cut it.

Consider every shepard comes back looking different, even if you import the same face, because the scars aren't recreated in the new shep. That's enough to give pause at least.

If only Shepard could walk around everywhere with Captain Bailey and his DNA scanner.

Modifié par dirae, 02 novembre 2010 - 08:33 .

[Chignon]

magelet wrote...

Aww, your Shepard is really cute!
I really hate the Horizon conversation though.  It always seemed like just an excuse to get rid of Kaidan/Ashley for a while.

Thank you, magelet! I know. The worst thing is that it could've had so much potential but instead we got ... this.

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The number ONE reason that Kaidan didnt make me mad:
I FOOKING AGREED WITH HIM!.

Honestly the Cerberus railroading drove me nuts, telling TIM off made me happy (even though the DLCs do NOT reflect that). Cant wait to get back to kicking Reaper ass with someone who dosent have issues sticking out of every convo.

Besides he can join me as I bring a "Righteous F-ing Hammer" down on TIM's head.

This.

dirae wrote...

Amen to that. Cerberus is a terrorist organization. Some select divisions do some good. Some divisions of it do evil. But I just think the people who defend it are misguided. Kelly, Miranda. Both misguided.  Yeah, Cerberus isn't always commiting some atrocity, but its very much like the saying "Robbing Peter to pay Paul" or what is the saying? "One hand washing the other?"  "One hand hiding some dastardly thing from another?" It'll come to me later. But yeah, basically that stuff.

I don't judge Shepard or anyone in her squad for working with them because its the only option to stop the Reapers. But let's call a spade a spade here.

I always had the suspicion that they were chosen by TIM because most of them joined for "good" reasons or were simply "misguided". To sway Shepard over and convince her/him isn't as bad as s/he may believe. I don't think that it's a coincidence that every Cerberus member on your crew is more or less a normal person trying to do the right thing.

The real reason could, of course, also be inconsistent writing/railroading.


EDIT

Awesome post, dirae! I hate it when people compare Ash and Kaidan's situation to Garrus/Tali/Wrex/Liara and dismiss their reasons for not joining Shepard without thinking about it.

Modifié par Chignon, 02 novembre 2010 - 09:04 .

[Sialater]

dirae wrote...

Anyone know which fic I'm talking about?

I believe it was Architects of Their Own Fortune.

[Loki330]

dirae wrote...
(not that he'd be pissy with Shepard in any situation, IMO)

Picking this one out; out of all the old companions Garrus and Tali are two of them that have the most 'legitimate' (for lack of a better word) of being concerned with Cerberus, as they're non-human, yet their reaction is 'You're back? Fantastic, let's do this!' Wrex (if my memory serves) says words to the effect of 'If I didn't have these berks to keep in line I'd be on that shuttle with you like a shot'
Liara... eh. Not so familier with her character. Get a strong vengance vibe though, and I can understand how she can't just drop and leave if she wants to keep hunting, since the trailer will get cold and she'll lose nearly two years of work.

Kaidan and Ashely? Well considering they're talking to someone who comitted treason (punishable by execution) against the alliance because their sense of justice demanded they stop Saren, I find it stretching credulity they have trouble (apparently) getting their heads around Shepeard working with Cerberus to save the colonies when the Alliance isn't doing much beyond token gun turrets due to fleet casualties from 2 years ago and the Council is doing an ostrich. I'm not criticising Ashley and Kaiden specifically-Anderson is detatched and not nearly as warm too, however as said above, for someone who was willing to break Alliance laws to save people, is it really that hard to imagine them working with Cerberus when no-one else is really making an effort?

Modifié par Loki330, 02 novembre 2010 - 03:17 .