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[Forum Aura]

Selenora wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

It's odd how much adrenaline ME1 still gives at the end of the game, even after the 30th time or something. It's the entire package that still gets me going. Anyway, playing ME2 now and have to say it's more enjoyable than it was the first time I played it, mainly because my expectations changed. This is my second ever full playthrough but the lack of Kaidan in the game does effect the amount of fun I'm having.
Just so used to taking him along to every single mission and side mission that something is just missing in ME2. I wonder what it is though. Is it because this romance is spread across a trilogy that causes the attachement to Kaidan as a character? Knowing the story continues. I'm basically treating the ME story as a Kaidan/Shepard lovestory whenever I play the game...it's weird lol
Just thinking a bit

i treat the game the same. A Kaidan/Shep love story with shep just having a few more things to do, you know.....as saving the galaxy and such small boring things

Btw, if they kill the VS they will kill my faith on them as well. And im a goddamn fan since BG and that means many years now

Your thinking out loud perfectly echoes mine, Jho.  I've caught myself many times now turning from ME2 and finding some relief in ME1 simply because of the lack of Kaidan and all he entails: the sweetness, affection, the "silent strength" always by my side in combat, the long Mako rides into a foreign sunset... not to sound too sappy here! To this day my oldest sibling scolds me for playing Mass Effect so much, but he's disappointed that I've only beaten ME2 twice - as opposed to over a dozen ME1 completions. Yes, I know the first step is admitting I have a problem, but... it's... Kaidan!! I think my brother may have a good idea of why I play ME1 relentlessly, even though I'm met with complaints like "the graphics are horrible compared to ME2" and "you never pick a new survivor on Virmire!" (D'oh! That could be a give away! *To the shadows!* )

There's certainly a level of imagination involved here, and a heightened sense of what makes that feel accomplished. ME2 lacked that considerably, so I find my refuge in ME1 still (sigh). I sincerely hope ME3 lives up to what the devs and scattered clues suggest, especially in regards to the romance finale. If they fail at this, if the LI conclusion falls short of my expectations... well, let's just say any consecutive play-throughs of ME3 rely heavily on a satisfying romantic plot!

Keeping my fingers crossed. 

[Jhourney]

Forum Aura wrote...
Your thinking out loud perfectly echoes mine, Jho.  I've caught myself many times now turning from ME2 and finding some relief in ME1 simply because of the lack of Kaidan and all he entails: the sweetness, affection, the "silent strength" always by my side in combat, the long Mako rides into a foreign sunset... not to sound too sappy here! To this day my oldest sibling scolds me for playing Mass Effect so much, but he's disappointed that I've only beaten ME2 twice - as opposed to over a dozen ME1 completions. Yes, I know the first step is admitting I have a problem, but... it's... Kaidan!! I think my brother may have a good idea of why I play ME1 relentlessly, even though I'm met with complaints like "the graphics are horrible compared to ME2" and "you never pick a new survivor on Virmire!" (D'oh! That could be a give away! *To the shadows!* )

There's certainly a level of imagination involved here, and a heightened sense of what makes that feel accomplished. ME2 lacked that considerably, so I find my refuge in ME1 still (sigh). I sincerely hope ME3 lives up to what the devs and scattered clues suggest, especially in regards to the romance finale. If they fail at this, if the LI conclusion falls short of my expectations... well, let's just say any consecutive play-throughs of ME3 rely heavily on a satisfying romantic plot!

Keeping my fingers crossed. 

I guess I just want a conclusion to my Shepard's story and a big part of her story is Kaidan. While going through ME2 again, I keep an open mind...or try to do so this time around to give some characters a chance. But really the only consistent character I bring along is Garrus, like I did in ME1. Mainly because my Shepard needs him to keep her grounded, but I'm also frustrated about the whole "calibrations" crap when trying to talk to him. Garrus presence shows he's a good friend, sadly his dialogue doesn't since there hardly is any aside from the romance stuff (which I'm not after.)
I find myself annoyed with characters like Thane and Miranda this time around and still hate how Shepard approached Jacob so staying away from him. On the other hand, Jack is growing on me oddly enough and should I play a more tech Shepard the next time, I'm going to add her to my squad more often.
But still, nobody on the ship offers what Kaidan did, or what Ash and Liara gave Shepard as friends. These new people, aside from Garrus (and in a way Tali), don't feel like friends. Ken and Gabby could have been, but their dialogue is short.
I feel no urge what so ever to consult them after a mission, to hear their opinions or whatever. Hell I find the mess sergeant more fun to hang with

So in the end there's no room for bonding on the SR-2 for my Shepard, it's a suicide mission so I guess it's for the better. I don't think ME3 will and can ever live up to our expectations because, let's face it, we have quite a few lol I just hope there's closure for Shepard and Kaidan, a happy one...nothing DA style cuz I'm not going to let Kaidan sleep with a Reaper so we can both survive the final battle

[Selenora]

Jhosephine wrote...

I just hope there's closure for Shepard and Kaidan, a happy one...nothing DA style cuz I'm not going to let Kaidan sleep with a Reaper so we can both survive the final battle

hell i would if that was the only option to keep him and me alive and have a future together
or even better i would offer to sleep with the HB (since he has a thing going on for me...the lines he says in fight are priceless they got me killed a few times due to the lack of concentration while i was laughing ) to spare him the angst and.......pain
in fact there are not many things i wouldnt do for his love
Kaidan it is not the HB lol

[Jhourney]

Selenora wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

I just hope there's closure for Shepard and Kaidan, a happy one...nothing DA style cuz I'm not going to let Kaidan sleep with a Reaper so we can both survive the final battle

hell i would if that was the only option to keep him and me alive and have a future together
or even better i would offer to sleep with the HB (since he has a thing going on for me...the lines he says in fight are priceless they got me killed a few times due to the lack of concentration while i was laughing ) to spare him the angst and.......pain
in fact there are not many things i wouldnt do for his love
Kaidan it is not the HB lol

Poor Kaidan, he'll be scarred for life

[solvill]

scared ?? he would be traumatized

[Selenora]

He's a big boy. He'll get over it

[Loki330]

Add 'in bed' to the end of any of Harbinger's lines and they instantly become silly. I don't see why you guys are getting so worried about ME3 myself, the only way they could have made it more obvious was if Kaidan/Ashley flatout said 'I'm not coming because I need to be in ME3' on Horizon.

[Jhourney]

Loki330 wrote...

Add 'in bed' to the end of any of Harbinger's lines and they instantly become silly. I don't see why you guys are getting so worried about ME3 myself, the only way they could have made it more obvious was if Kaidan/Ashley flatout said 'I'm not coming because I need to be in ME3' on Horizon.

It's already been confirmed the VS will return in ME3 with a 'big role', that's not the concern. it's more about how this role will be treated among the LI onslaught
A big role that could mean a sacrifice for the greater good, who knows. I just want a happy ending to their story, but Kaidan returning in ME3 doesn't mean he's willing to pick up where they left off years ago. I mean I hope he's going to play hard to get a bit  Though not in a "spend the entire time in ME3 to work on the relationship with a bedscene before the grandfinale", cuz I don't want to repeat ME1 relationship wise.

Modifié par Jhosephine, 14 novembre 2010 - 07:24 .

[Forum Aura]

Loki330 wrote...

Add 'in bed' to the end of any of Harbinger's lines and they instantly become silly. I don't see why you guys are getting so worried about ME3 myself, the only way they could have made it more obvious was if Kaidan/Ashley flatout said 'I'm not coming because I need to be in ME3' on Horizon.

Very true. What I probably didn't express clearly enough is not that I fear the VS will be excluded and forgotten in 3, but that their writers will not deliver for all the evidence we have to the contrary. Like Jho said, I have my set of expectations (which I'm keeping rather low and in check, lol!) that I hope will come to pass in ME3. I do not look forward to any hard dilemmas such as DA:O - make your man sleep with someone else or watch him die. I still feel guilty for making Alistair bed the one person whom he truly despises.  But like Selenora, I do think I'd go to extreme lengths to see that Kaidan fulfills a good LI role in the final installment. Poor man probably can't take any more trauma, though...

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but with the infamous suicide mission of ME2, I strongly believe there's a chance that we'll face a similar dilemma. In ME1 we can lose two of our party members. In 2 we can lose them all(!). There's no red tape for BioWare to inevitably knock off another few characters in ME3, which worries me. It's a terrible thing to imagine, but what if Kaidan had been there for the suicide mission and didn't make it out? That notion alone literally rips my heart out. It's a grim reality that I'm bracing myself for. But my question is, though, in the event that this can befall our LI in ME3, will they flesh it out accordingly? If Kaidan and (say) an unromanced Jacob could die interchangeably, would we see a difference in Shepard's reactions?

Chalk this up to my set of expectations. If BioWare gave us all the delicious Kaidan we could take in ME1, deprived us in ME2, and now talk of this "pivotal role" in ME3...!! I need a hand, here! (Particularly the hand of a good BioWare writer!) I link the fate of the galaxy as dear to my Shepard's personality as I do the strong man that she needs to see again. Needs, period!

It was wonderful to see Kaidan on Horizon - albeit short lived and bittersweet, leaving a bad taste in my mouth. But his 3 minute cameo simply. wasn't. enough. And his picture on Shepards desk was "as nourishing as a photograph of oxygen to a drowning man (Watchmen)." I need some goods in ME3. (Sigh) Can we start with a chair? 

[freelovefreeway]

Jhosephine wrote...
I'm basically treating the ME story as a Kaidan/Shepard lovestory whenever I play the game...it's weird lol

No, I completely think of it as their story. The first game is new and fresh and everything is exciting and looking up--falling in love and moving forward when it comes to saving the galaxy.

The second game is (arguably) darker and Shepard loses everything--her life, her place in the Alliance, and, most importantly, Kaidan. Since the state of Kaidan and Shepard’s relationship runs parallel to the plot, I think the games can just as easily be about their relationship. That’s what I tell myself, anyway.

I split up ME2 enough that I make it about them. She has him in the beginning. When she asks Jacob about her crew, she is most concerned with Kaidan. When she asks the Illusive Man about her crew, she is listening the hardest to his answer about Kaidan. She immediately searches the Citadel for him and gets really frustrated when Anderson refuses to tell her anything about him.

Then she can go and do other stuff while being all sad and lonely until Horizon and it is actually about him again. She can get her one line from Joker (I don’t care that it exists regardless of whether or not you romanced him--it makes more sense if you have) and (ugh) Kelly. But the line about losing more than time is still my favorite in the whole game. And then Shepard gets her email from Kaidan.

I like to save the drink with Chakwas for this part of the game when there otherwise isn’t much Kaidan news. There’s a couple other random little lines that I say are about Kaidan/Shepard, too, but it’s been awhile since I played ME2 so I don’t remember them all...like the one in Legion’s loyalty mission about how people grow apart or whatever it is.

And then obviously looking at the picture before the suicide mission--which I think legitimizes this way of playing. It shows she really is thinking about him and doing all this crap for him. Everyone else may have been able to tell Liara they were doing it for their LI, but we got to see it...

You just need to play ME2 with the mindset that even though there isn’t any Kaidan actually in it, the bummed outtedness of Shepard is directly related to her lack of Kaidan. And there is enough in the game to have your Shepard constantly thinking about him.

Forum Aura wrote...
I've caught myself many times now turning from ME2 and finding some relief in ME1 simply because of the lack of Kaidan and all he entails: the sweetness, affection, the "silent strength" always by my side in combat, the long Mako rides into a foreign sunset... not to sound too sappy here!

I'm pretty sure this is true for all of us. If I just need a quick fix, then I can load up my saves and watch all the Kaidan conversations again. But if I want to really fall in love with Kaidan all over again, then I need to play ME1 in its entirety. There’s something about having him next to Shepard in battle and having time passing with them together that is vitally important.

Jhosephine wrote...
 I just want a happy ending to their story, but Kaidan returning in ME3 doesn't mean he's willing to pick up where they left off years ago. I mean I hope he's going to play hard to get a bit  Though not in a "spend the entire time in ME3 to work on the relationship with a bedscene before the grandfinale", cuz I don't want to repeat ME1 relationship wise.

The fact that the rest of the romances will be ongoing--complete with on-demand cuddles--makes me think that we won’t have to wait for our Kaidan love. It just wouldn’t make sense. And  here is where I’m going to forcefully ignore any other differential treatment between the VS romance and all the other romances that also don’t make sense...

Phew, it's exhausting being this optimistic, but you guys are such downers all the time.

[FireEye]

Forum Aura wrote...
Can we start with a chair? 

[ME3, Intro]



Kaidan: "I had a horrible dream about you and Cerberus and a baby Reaper." 
Shepard [Paragon]: "Why don't you have a seat and tell me all about it?"  :innocent:
Shepard [Renegade]: "[Striptease]" 

Joker: "Commander, Admiral Hackett is...!  Um.  I'll... you know... tell him to callbacklater,nevermind!" 

[FireEye]

freelovefreeway wrote...

You just need to play ME2 with the mindset that even though there isn’t any Kaidan actually in it, the bummed outtedness of Shepard is directly related to her lack of Kaidan. And there is enough in the game to have your Shepard constantly thinking about him.
Phew, it's exhausting being this optimistic, but you guys are such downers all the time.

Chances seem high that, if the VS is included as a viable gamewide romance in ME3 (squadmate or not - remember, that quote about them being important also suggested that "important" did not mean "squadmate"), that you will spend the entire game trying to win them back in some way, and will finally sex them up before the big fight [where you both die/after which you ride into the sunset].  I doubt there will be cuddles right out of the starting gate.

Personally, my Shepard is more than the sum of her romance, and I had much, much bigger problems with ME2 than the lack of Kaidan - so even the "best case scenario" I can think of for the romance does not patch the story and gameplay troubles, imho.

Modifié par FireEye, 14 novembre 2010 - 09:19 .

[maegnas55]

FireEye wrote...

Forum Aura wrote...
Can we start with a chair? 

[ME3, Intro]



Kaidan: "I had a horrible dream about you and Cerberus and a baby Reaper." 
Shepard [Paragon]: "Why don't you have a seat and tell me all about it?"  :innocent:
Shepard [Renegade]: "[Striptease]" 

Joker: "Commander, Admiral Hackett is...!  Um.  I'll... you know... tell him to callbacklater,nevermind!" 

Ah Joker and his constant interruptions! I always imagine my Shepard going to him and ... idk, tape his mouth with ducktape or something so she could enjoy Kaidan without interruption lol

[freelovefreeway]

FireEye wrote...
Chances seem high that, if the VS is included as a viable gamewide romance in ME3 (squadmate or not - remember, that quote about them being important also suggested that "important" did not mean "squadmate"), that you will spend the entire game trying to win them back in some way, and will finally sex them up before the big fight [where you both die/after which you ride into the sunset].  I doubt there will be cuddles right out of the starting gate.

I don't expect to immediately get back into bed with Kaidan--we have to go through whatever story we have to go through to have him reincorporated into the game, and then we have to deal with putting the relationship back together. But I also don't think we'll have to wait until the end of the game. It seems like if BioWare implements little acknowledgements for the rest of the ongoing romances, then it would easy to apply the same thing to a VS relationship and there wouldn't be reason for them to put it off until the end.

And yeah, the squadmate issue is actually the only thing I have worried about. I have faith that we'll have a satisfying conclusion to both the story of the game and the romance itself, but the idea that Kaidan might not be a squadmate does get me down.

[Forum Aura]

 I love that chair... but at the same time I hate it.  Thank you, Fire!

Free, I appreciate the optimism, I really do! We may be sounding pessimistic, but it is my concern that justifies it, I think. This is the first time I've followed a series that I've been so enthralled by. To quote a wise man, "I've got a lot tied up in this." It's the classic game of anticipating something you cannot be sure of - I'm hoping for the best, I've got all my optimism tied up in it, but I'm also bracing for disappointment.

Truly though, all they have to do is give me my Kaidan back. As a squadmate and forgiving lover is best-case scenario. As a REALLY good cameo, lover, and special team member (I really need him at my side in combat at least once) is a somewhat less satisfying yet still decent scenario.

A flashback to ME1 shows me like this:  I have Kaidan, I roll with Kaidan, I chat with Kaidan, I love Kaidan, I warm bed with Kaidan. And there's a happy ending!

ME2:  OMG there you are, Kaidan! ...Why...?  Why are you walking away? (Can't help but gawk as you walk away. ) Same face as I never see him again, only receive an e-mail. Angst! 

So in ME3 I'm hoping along the lines of:  OMG you're back! (Remember: don't say "How've you been?"!)  I'm sorry about everything.  Try again?


Let's not forget, BioWare does owe us a good love scene to make up for deficiencies in ME2!

[FireEye]

Forum Aura wrote...

Let's not forget, BioWare does owe us a good love scene to make up for deficiencies in ME2!

And here I thought staring at the photo was already a cut above the other ME2 love scenes and a highlight of the game. 

[Nightodie]

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[Gilsa]

I was beyond thrilled when I first saw that we could look at Kaidan's photo before the suicide mission. I loved how they still acknowledged that and kept him a part of the story so I've got good hopes. Anytime I grouse about the idea of Shepard having to choose between saving the universe or her love, it's only me smarting from Alistair romance in DA:O. I don't read every single interview Bioware puts out, but I've read enough to pick up the vibe that the Mass Effect team really wants to do right by their fans and to have them feel like this is an epic, heroic game. The Dragon Age writers want their fans to feel the highs and lows because if people feel kicked in the gut from a heartwrenching scene, then they're doing a good job, right? I have not really seen this attitude reflected on the ME side of things which is why I have high hopes, especially after seeing how well done the Liara DLC was, that in the end, everything's gonna be just fine.

[Jhourney]

So I just finished LotSB and OMG, what a brilliant DLC. What a way to showcase Liara and Shepard, heck it made ME2 a better game for me. The detail, the friendship banter between Liara and Shepard, the whole SB thing, the fights etc etc, it felt so 'real', a true connection with a former crew member and friend! This is what I've been missing in ME2. Shepard opening up to Liara and vice versa, wonderful. (picked the renegade version to hear her mention Kaidan  ) It would have been nice if Kaidans dossier was available though.

If we can get something similiar with Kaidan, I'll be screaming with joy at my tv while downloading the DLC and then playing it!!!! Can you imagine him being the lead in a DLC story like Liara? She stood her ground against Shepard, it really felt like fighting side by side with an equal....I want that for Kaidan too. After all, he doesn't answer to Shepard anymore, I can totally see him taking charge to get whatever mission done

Please please please give us the same high QL DLC for the Virmire Survivor, it was wonderful!

Want Kaidan DLC ....now lol

[Chignon]

I still think that "important role" will translate to "sacrificial lamb" or an antagonist with Kaidan being the Shepard to Shepard's Saren as someone else put it.



I don't expect anything at all for Kaidan in ME3 - the lack of care that was put into Kaidan in ME2 and the fact that he is not acknowledged as an LI in any of the DLCs certainly helped with that.

[fortunesque]

Chignon wrote...

I still think that "important role" will translate to "sacrificial lamb" or an antagonist with Kaidan being the Shepard to Shepard's Saren as someone else put it.

I don't expect anything at all for Kaidan in ME3 - the lack of care that was put into Kaidan in ME2 and the fact that he is not acknowledged as an LI in any of the DLCs certainly helped with that.

Unfortunately, I'll have to agree with this until I see evidence to the contrary that BW actually gives a crap about us 

[FireEye]

Chignon wrote...

I don't expect anything at all for Kaidan in ME3 - the lack of care that was put into Kaidan in ME2 and the fact that he is not acknowledged as an LI in any of the DLCs certainly helped with that.

Yeah - this is a big red flag for me.  It feels very much like they want to retcon the VS to a one night stand, if at all.  I wouldn't be surprised if the LI angle doesn't work with what they want to do with Ash/Kaidan in the story, so they have to minimize it to make work what they want to make work.

[Chignon]

If Bioware doesn't release a DLC that allows us to mend the rift between Shepard and Kaidan as they did for Shepard and Liara, then I think you might be right, Fire, and we will get a retconned version of Kaidan's romance in ME3.



"This can't change anything, Shepard." /:

[Hedera]

 Sorry if I'm derailing any current subject...
*checks*
No, I'm good 

So I was touring the Normandy in ME2 today, talking to my crew, and I finally decided to chat up Jacob.

As I am posting this here, I am being loyal to Kaidan, so the ensuing conversation made me 

I am aware this has already been discussed, probably several hundred times, but I needed to say something.

I am NOT hating on Jacob or his romance, just that my Shepard is practically throwing herself at the poor man, and it's very OOC for my vision of her.  Bioware is really trying to push me in that direction and it makes me sad. 

[Jean]

Bad thing about Kaidan DLC is that there has to be one for Ash too, which would be a lot of work. In turn, vids for said DLC would be featuring Ash too, rather than Kaidan.



But anyway, until more story tidbits come out, a DLC may be more harmful to their role/roles than helpful. Running into them in ME3 right off the bat would probably be the best to begin to mend the friendship/relationship with either.



Then at the end of the game, everyone has last minute sex and saves the universe.



Or dies.