63501 réponses à ce sujet

[syllogi]

Tonight I was thinking especially foul thoughts about Horizon. I know some people don't have a big problem with it, but the writing really does blow, and it feels like the purpose was essentially to make players dislike the Virmire Survivor and make them not want to stay loyal. I hate the railroading in this game, and this was the worst bit for me.



But, there is one good thing about going through Horizon again. It's one more opportunity to play the "snap a screenshot of the boob graze" game:







I guess it's best to find pleasure where I can...

[FireEye]

... :innocent:

[syllogi]

FireEye wrote...

... :innocent:

Things might have gone a bit differently if we could have met Kaidan that way...

[FireEye]

Maybe.  But he looks... contemplative.  I can't tell what he's thinking. 

[mllrthyme]

Best way to get over Horizon is to shoot things...

Chapter 6

[sesheta255]

mllrthyme wrote...

Best way to get over Horizon is to shoot things...

Chapter 6

I like it.  so when do we get the next 9 or so, lmao.  I'm waiting for at least chapter 15

[mllrthyme]

sesheta255 wrote...

*snip*

I like it.  so when do we get the next 9 or so, lmao.  I'm waiting for at least chapter 15

Ah Sesh, all good things in time.  You shall have your smut.  I promise.

[Jhourney]

TeenZombie wrote...

Tonight I was thinking especially foul thoughts about Horizon. I know some people don't have a big problem with it, but the writing really does blow, and it feels like the purpose was essentially to make players dislike the Virmire Survivor and make them not want to stay loyal. I hate the railroading in this game, and this was the worst bit for me.

Agreed. I've been to Horizon tons of times now, though just to put a camera in Kaidan's face so I basically don't pay attention to what is said to distance myself from the scene. But I went there with my canon Shepard a few days ago and the impact was totally different despite all my photoshoot sessions with Kaidan there. I really dislike the writing as well, though mostly for Shepard since she can't really respond the way she should storywise. (with the ME1 background) I would have settled for the short lines on the dialogue wheel instead of the crap coming from her mouth when she speaks lol



<_<

[FireEye]

The dialogue wheel is misleading.  ... and notice how they don't let you save before the boss fight?  And if you do, you get stuck on Horizon without Kaidan? 

[Jhourney]

FireEye wrote...

The dialogue wheel is misleading.  ... and notice how they don't let you save before the boss fight?  And if you do, you get stuck on Horizon without Kaidan? 

Yes, I thought I was clever when hitting the quicksave in between...but....noooooooo. Hmmph!
The only good thing about it all is the attention to Kaidan. I mean, TIM mentioning him, getting the cutscene (with the default soldier setup as always but oh well), then the whole meeting, Kaidan finally being acknowledged to even exist by Joker and Kelly and yet another acknowledgement of the 'relationship' by TIM, and a new line added to Anderson's wheel of old dialogue.

See I can see the silver lining, at least we get some acknowledgement around the whole Horizon thing. Sadly that's the only time it happens

[FireEye]

You think it's just compartmentalized like the rest of the character plots?

... hmm.  I hadn't thought of it that way. 

[Jhourney]

FireEye wrote...

You think it's just compartmentalized like the rest of the character plots?

... hmm.  I hadn't thought of it that way. 

It could very well be, never looked at it that way either...hmm....interesting.

[Chignon]

FireEye wrote...

You think it's just compartmentalized like the rest of the character plots?

... hmm.  I hadn't thought of it that way. 

Me neither, but it's interesting and much like the ME2 characters only ever coming alive in their respective loyalty missions/romance. But even that still doesn't explain why he and Ash aren't ackowledged as LIs in any of the DLCs.

[Jhourney]

Chignon wrote...

FireEye wrote...

You think it's just compartmentalized like the rest of the character plots?

... hmm.  I hadn't thought of it that way. 

Me neither, but it's interesting and much like the ME2 characters only ever coming alive in their respective loyalty missions/romance. But even that still doesn't explain why he and Ash aren't ackowledged as LIs in any of the DLCs.

Sloppy writing. For some reason it feels as if the Horizon project was created (including the mail) and then the project was put aside after finishing it. Not even coming back to it to fix some animation bugs Almost as if Horizon was one of the first projects they did....or perhaps the last and they stopped thinking about the VS after it.
I've always said the focus is totally on the new crew and story, including Zaeed and Kasumi later on. It's as if it didn't occur to those making the story driven DLCs to mention the old LIs because they created a new game with new LIs...which is rubbish but it just feels that way to me.
After all Bioware is treating every game as a standalone game, and we've seen what that can do to continuity on some fronts <_< Liara does mention Kaidan with a frustrated Shepard, but it feels more as if Kaidan is just a friend and of all people Liara should know better

We care a lot more about the romances than Bioware does, after all it's just a small part of the game, even smaller for the VS. I think they just forgot, which blows, but I don't think there's more to it than that. Maybe the one programming the mention of a LI just looked at the ME2 LI list of names and never thought of adding in the ones coming from ME1...I dunno.

It's such a simple thing to overlook, but it's major for us (or me at least)...but details like that makes one feel left out for sure.

Or maybe I'm just full of crap...

[Commander Kurt]

I can see where Kaidan is coming from on Horizon, but Shep..? I guess she was nervous. And drunk.

Jhosephine wrote...
...Well your hope and positive attitude is always welcome here, that's for sure!

Thanks!

Jenova65 wrote...
I agree with absolutely everything you just said 

Modifié par Commander Kurt, 16 novembre 2010 - 09:17 .

[Chignon]

I don't believe it's just sloppy writing or that it can be chalked up to Bioware forgetting about them anymore. I think Fire is right when she said that whatever Bioware plans for Ash and Kaidan probably doesn't fit in with the LI angle and so they decided to drop it or retcon it.

Yes, Liara mentions Kaidan or Ash but only to comment on their "short-sightedness", no acknowledgment as a LI whatsoever and that is what bothers me most. I honestly could have overlooked the fact that they were forgotten about/not mentioned in the Kasumi DLC but not in the Liara DLC.

I was expecting something a bit more profound from someone who was on Shepard's crew during the whole of ME1 and knows about Shepard and Kaidan/Ashley's relationship. Being able to name Liara and every other ME2 LI as the reason for your Shepard to fight just twisted the knife even more.

EDIT

Sorry for being all pessimistic.

Modifié par Chignon, 16 novembre 2010 - 09:40 .

[Commander Kurt]

Chignon wrote...

I don't believe it's just sloppy writing or that it can be chalked up to Bioware forgetting about them anymore. I think Fire is right when she said that whatever Bioware plans for Ash and Kaidan probably doesn't fit in with the LI angle and so they decided to drop it or retcon it.

But that just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not saying that you're wrong, who's to know, but it sounds so strange.

They're still giving you the option to pursue the romance. They're even reminding you of it with that picture, and sad longing Shep before the SM. If the plan was to cut them out, they could just do that. Easily. Why would they try to push us to move on and select a new flavour by not mentioning our old LI when they could just make us?

[Chignon]

Just like it doesn't make any sense for Ash and Kaidan to be the only LIs to be left out of the DLCs in every way - no mention, no dossiers. Of course they could cut them out in ME3 but honestly since the end of ME2 it feels like they already have - at least as a romance option. This is of course just my opinion



I don't know - added drama? We can only speculate since we don't what that important role will entail. It could be anything at this point - squadmate, sacrifice, traitor, enemy.

[Shenzi]

Jhosephine wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Tonight I was thinking especially foul thoughts about Horizon. I know some people don't have a big problem with it, but the writing really does blow, and it feels like the purpose was essentially to make players dislike the Virmire Survivor and make them not want to stay loyal. I hate the railroading in this game, and this was the worst bit for me.

Agreed. I've been to Horizon tons of times now, though just to put a camera in Kaidan's face so I basically don't pay attention to what is said to distance myself from the scene. But I went there with my canon Shepard a few days ago and the impact was totally different despite all my photoshoot sessions with Kaidan there. I really dislike the writing as well, though mostly for Shepard since she can't really respond the way she should storywise. (with the ME1 background) I would have settled for the short lines on the dialogue wheel instead of the crap coming from her mouth when she speaks lol



<_<

I haven't seen that pic in ages. 
 
I'm doing a play through with Kate atm (my A/U Shep)  for some reference material and I'm just going to be clicking rapid fire through Horizon since her story doesn't include that cheesy plot device of a scene with its abysmal dialogue.

[Commander Kurt]

Chignon wrote...

Just like it doesn't make any sense for Ash and Kaidan to be the only LIs to be left out of the DLCs in every way - no mention, no dossiers. Of course they could cut them out in ME3 but honestly since the end of ME2 it feels like they already have - at least as a romance option. This is of course just my opinion

I don't know - added drama? We can only speculate since we don't what that important role will entail. It could be anything at this point - squadmate, sacrifice, traitor, enemy.

It is strange, I'll admit. I really expected a dossier, and it's obvious that ME2 really isn't about them at all. They are something that needed to be kept out of the game, and it was not done very well. Actually, I feel that most personal interactions were done less impressively in ME2.

And you're right of course. We're only guessing here, and if ME2 was a bit sloppy then who knows? But the thing is, forgetting about them, leaving them out, ignoring them, it can easily be explained. It's overlooked. Their only role in ME2 is to be kept out, and I'm guessing that the less resources that could be spent on them the better when such is the plan. However, ending the relationship in ME3 while investing hard cash to keep it alive in ME2, despite their absence? Not so easily explained.

BW would be tricking us into staying faithful, only to kick us in the groin come ME3. Added drama, indeed.  

[sapphyreelf]

Commander Kurt wrote...

I can see where Kaidan is coming from on Horizon, but Shep..? I guess she was nervous. And drunk.

Nervous? Definitely!
Drunk? Not so much.

Trying to pull herself together after a rough combat and thinking her former lover just got kidnapped/abducted by the Collectors when he comes walking up on her and her squad? Yes!

Where I agree the writing could have been astronomically better for Shepard on Horizon, the overall effect still doesn't bother me. Shepard was in a situation that she didn't have the perfect words at the perfect moment to smooth everything over. It makes Shepard human, moreso since the one person (at least for my Shepard) that she would want to say the right things to is the one she botches horribly at. 

Kaidan already made it so it was hard for her to think straight before anything in ME2. That only got magnified on Horizon.

First, it was all: Oh, god, they're leaving. Where's Kaidan? Did they get him?

Then he shows up, and it's all:



He's alive! He's safe! Thank God!

Of course, everything turns into a stalemate from there.



And, for me, email notwithstanding, the relationship is still at that stalemate. I don't know what's going to happen. Neither do they. I want a happy ending, but I don't know if it's in the cards. Not every story has one, and sometimes it can be a more powerful story without it.

[Chignon]

As I said, I don't believe it is something as simple as oversight on Bioware's part - I could believe that if it only happened once but not twice, especially when every LI in ME1 and ME2 gets a nod in some way except Ashley and Kaidan.

The fact that Bioware did not kill them off in ME2 when they had plenty of opportunities to do so is the only reason why I have some hope left. I'm not worried that Ash and Kaidan will not make an appearance in ME3. I'm just worried about as to how and as what.

Commander Kurt wrote...

BW would be tricking us into staying faithful, only to kick us in the groin come ME3. Added drama, indeed.  

I can see them doing that, actually.

sapphyreelf wrote...

It makes Shepard human, ...

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. The last thing Shepard was on Horizon is human - "Hey, how've you been?", "You sound angry! Oh, I wonder why!", "No time for celebrations, Kaidan!".

I love your screenshots, though.

Modifié par Chignon, 16 novembre 2010 - 12:22 .

[Commander Kurt]

sapphyreelf wrote...
Where I agree the writing could have been astronomically better for Shepard on Horizon, the overall effect still doesn't bother me. Shepard was in a situation that she didn't have the perfect words at the perfect moment to smooth everything over. It makes Shepard human, moreso since the one person (at least for my Shepard) that she would want to say the right things to is the one she botches horribly at. 

It's just that first line that really kills me. "Hey Kaidan, how've you been?"? I mean, really?

sapphyreelf wrote...
And, for me, email notwithstanding, the relationship is still at that stalemate. I don't know what's going to happen. Neither do they. I want a happy ending, but I don't know if it's in the cards. Not every story has one, and sometimes it can be a more powerful story without it.

I'm just hanging on to that line for dear life; "I couldn't bear it if I lost you again". And I think that all love stories need some angst (fictional ones, that is), but we got it already. I'm done, and ready for a powerful reunion. They sure set the scene for it..

By the way, very nice pictures!

[Jhourney]

If they wanted to get rid of Kaidan, they could easily have done so on Horizon. Kaidan didn't dismiss Shepard completely, nor did he do it at the second possible moment...the mail. I mean, him simply stating he doesn't want anything to do with Shepard anymore etc etc could have been added to the mail. As well as, I dunno, have him love someone else and completely moving on. Much harder pushes towards the new LIs if they went down that road. If they wanted Ilos to be a one night stand, why not mark it as such in ME2? Instead Kaidan tells Shepard he loved her, how he thought he had moved on but was wrong, how much Illos meant to him, even mentioning a date and almost apologising for it. Why add that if they wanted to dismiss the VS as a LI all together?

I'm sad the DLCs don't recognise the VS as a LI as well, but I refuse to believe it's some conspiracy to get rid of Kaidan and Ash. That's one hell of an effort to get rid of characters they could have dismissed ever so easily in another way, imo. Cutting all emotional ties with Shepard would have been understandable after two years. I would be pissed, but Bioware could have done something like that without effort.

I dunno, this wait is just killing us I think. As well as not getting any news what so ever where Kaidan and Ash are concerned, cept for Jesse's response to Jen
We all see different things and outcomes and that's only logical considering we have little to go on sadly.

@Shenzi yes that pic is from 'the old days"..as are many others that hide away in my ME folder lol

Modifié par Jhosephine, 16 novembre 2010 - 12:33 .

[Jhourney]

This is what could have happened too if Bioware wanted to be really evil (speaking of old pics lol) :

Modifié par Jhosephine, 16 novembre 2010 - 12:37 .