63501 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

I honestly dont understand Carth hate.



The guy watched his best friend and man he respected BOMB his homeworld, witnessed the death of millions, then lost his whole family. Yet people get annoyed that he has issues over that?



I actually respected him a lot for being wary of me in KOTOR and taking along time to work up to being able to talk with me. Hearing him call me partner on Korriban was like one of my fave moments in KOTOR.



Outside of pounding Malak into paste.

[Selenora]

mineralica wrote...

Haven't noticed anything what may count as "whine". And maybe I made everyone tired with this question for now and this is just lame justification of a fangirl, but why Sky who has got only one dialogue which not include his dead daughter and wife isn't Carth clone, Thane with his vivid memories of beloved, perfect, unforgettable dead wife isn't Carth clone either, but Kaidan whose feelings to girl weren't even mutual suddenly is?

I would reply but it would be insaulting to male players so i will.keep quiet

[pacer90]

Kaidan gets too much hate, people just jumped on the bandwagon in ME1 when it was cool to call him whiny. He's solid bro material in my books, and his dry comments make him the ME1 version of ME2 Garrus.



ME3 will be an overload of awesome between those two.

[syllogi]

Melindil wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
*snip*
...despite Horizon and the haters who seem to equate our love of a character as a slight against their own favorites, which couldn't be further from the truth. 

I don't want to detract from the rest of your post Teen, but this statement really stood out to me.  I've noticed this among other fans and it kinda bothers me, mostly because I can't figure exactly out why this attitude exists.  Why is it that being a fan of the VS (and Kaidan in particular, it seems) means that you automatically dislike all of the other characters in the game?  My best guess is that it's some sort of projection or defense mechanism: "Well, I don't like your favorite so I'm going to assume you don't like mine and I'm going to get the jump on this argument by accusing you first!" 

Any other thoughts on this?  I didn't spend much time at all on the old boards and I've only been a periodic lurker here until recently, so I can't vouch for any other existing attitudes or conflicts that might play a role in this.

Well, my first thought, after having spent nearly ten years reading Fandom ******, is that the petty bickering that we see on this forum is *nothing* compared to rabid LOTR or HP fans going at each other's throats. 

But honestly, I think on this forum, there tends to be a misconception that if you still like Kaidan and Ashley, you must dislike ME2.  And if you don't like ME2, somehow that translates into passing judgement on those who *do* like it.  I've thought in the past that a Virmire Survivor DLC might help with this perception, since if we're no longer seen as disgruntled, others might not be so defensive.  But who knows...I really have no idea what goes on in the minds of trolls, for instance, who run into support threads, bash a character, and run out.  Are they just trying to make fangirls upset?  Do they think that we'll suddenly change our minds about who we like?  I have no idea.

[Bullets McDeath]

Collider wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Welcome

I do have a question, though: How is he whiny to a dudeShep? There's only one line of dialogue that's different in regards to BAaT/his headaches and it's something along the lines of "maybe it's just my head. It'll be better when I can think straight"

From my experiences on this forum, it's basically
I don't like this character = this character whines.

Kaidan's partly less appealing to some/most male players because he doesn't open up quite as much as he does to female Shepard. If you're male, you can't even talk to him about what happened on Eden Prime - you can only talk to Ashley. Kind of like Bioware was afraid of teh gay or something. 

Well, I would say it was more that I didn't like him because I found him a bit complain-y, I didn't retrofit that label onto him after not liking him for other reasons.

But that part I bolded was what I was really trying to say. You just don't get to know him very well as dudeShep, at least not in the way that femShep does. So my dislike of the character was really a result of not knowing the character very well, even though I had tried with my dudeSheps.

Also though, the scene of walking up Kaidan in the Normandy... just has some erotic undertone to it. It is the same animation for males and females, so I get why, but it did always make me raise a quizzical eyebrow when my dudeShep does it. I kept waiting for the bass line to kick in while Kaidan says "Man, it's hot in here, Commander. Mind if I take off this uniform?"

Modifié par outlaworacle, 07 décembre 2010 - 07:19 .

[maegnas55]

 I found that a while back on Deviantart and though it's pretty funny sometimes I guess it could explain some things why people hate Kaidan so much. (as I said, everything is in the voice )

link1  link2

Giggle_manically you said you didn't understand hate towards Carth. The first two times I played Kotor god I hated Carth and I admit I thought he was a paranoid bastard. Still I always had him in my party because he is a good shot. The third time I played I decided to actually talk to him and gosh he is so funny! I don't remember the exact quote but the blaster reference with the female PC was just too much. He became my all time fav character after that lol

[fortunesque]

outlaworacle wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Welcome

I do have a question, though: How is he whiny to a dudeShep? There's only one line of dialogue that's different in regards to BAaT/his headaches and it's something along the lines of "maybe it's just my head. It'll be better when I can think straight"

Just my personal experience, but it may have had to do with the attitude of my male Shepard (Earthborn/Ruthless/Renegade/Soldier) in contrast to my femShep (Spacer/Sole Survivor/Paragon/Adept). In that context, I wasn't looking to talk about his feelings or his complicated past. Kaidan is a deep-thinking, kinda sensitive guy but he just seemed like a wuss talking to my dudeShep about how his training was so brutal, etc. It was like "Sir, you are opening up at the wrong time to the wrong person about the wrong things. Shuuuut uuuuuup."

Whereas with my femShep, it just seemed more natural and with that character's more understanding demeanor, I tried to "listen" to him the way she would, and came away with a new appreciation for the character.

That said I almost always save Kaidan on Virmire either way, but that's neither here nor there. And no, it's not because I hate Ashley before anyone asks

Thanks for the explanation. In the context that you provided, I see that it makes total sense. I'm very glad to see a well thought out argument about this. 

I'm the opposite with my Sheps. John Shepard is a paragon sweetheart with a penchant to say the wrong thing and break some hearts (also he's a sexual harassment lawsuit waiting to happen). Faith Shepard is a methodical, calculating renegade that is easily angered and easily talked into drinking. Her brand of renegade is watching out for the 'little guys' like the humans, Volus etc. and keeping the fascist oligarchy of the Council at arm's length. 

[Melindil]

pacer90 wrote...

Kaidan gets too much hate, people just jumped on the bandwagon in ME1 when it was cool to call him whiny. He's solid bro material in my books, and his dry comments make him the ME1 version of ME2 Garrus.

ME3 will be an overload of awesome between those two.

On the list of things I'd sell my soul (and a lot of other things) for, this has got to be somewhere near the top.  I would pay ridiculous amounts of money for that.

TeenZombie wrote...

Well, my first thought, after having spent nearly ten years reading Fandom ******, is that the petty bickering that we see on this forum is *nothing* compared to rabid LOTR or HP fans going at each other's throats. 

But honestly, I think on this forum, there tends to be a misconception that if you still like Kaidan and Ashley, you must dislike ME2.  And if you don't like ME2, somehow that translates into passing judgement on those who *do* like it.  I've thought in the past that a Virmire Survivor DLC might help with this perception, since if we're no longer seen as disgruntled, others might not be so defensive.  But who knows...I really have no idea what goes on in the minds of trolls, for instance, who run into support threads, bash a character, and run out.  Are they just trying to make fangirls upset?  Do they think that we'll suddenly change our minds about who we like?  I have no idea.

Oh Fandom ******.  I don't know that ANYTHING could compare to some of the debates (to be kind) that go on in those two fandoms.   I mean, do we have anything that even comes close to Harmony?

I definitely see how the "Kaidan/Ash fans obvs dislike ME2, so obvs they dislike me" attitude contributes and I think that that's really a shame.  Maybe it's because I'm pretty non-confrontational by nature but I just don't get why people (trolls especially) insist on perpetuating these divides.  I JUST WANT TO BE FRIENDS OKAY?  AND IT'S OKAY IF WE DON'T AGREE ABOUT ME2 BEING THE BESTEST GAME EVARRR (though I still like it well enough, I just prefer ME1).  I mean, sometimes it's like people don't even want to think about both sides, just blindly rage.  Though I suppose that's with anything.

[Jean]

Kaidan does do one thing that all the other LI males do as well. They all reminisce about a past love/some girl to Shepard at some point.

Kaidan: Rahna.

Garrus: Reach and Flexibility turian scout chick.

Jacob: Miranda.(Not as straight forward here, but it is implied.)

Thane: Dead wife.(Plus estranged son that turned to the dark side. How is that not more like Carth than Kaidan? Still love the dude, tho.)

[fortunesque]

Batteries wrote...

Kaidan does do one thing that all the other LI males do as well. They all reminisce about a past love/some girl to Shepard at some point.

Kaidan: Rahna.

Garrus: Reach and Flexibility turian scout chick.

Jacob: Miranda.(Not as straight forward here, but it is implied.)

Thane: Dead wife.(Plus estranged son that turned to the dark side. How is that not more like Carth than Kaidan? Still love the dude, tho.)

Yeah, every Male LI has some baggage in some form. The female LIs never really seem to have exes that they talk about in detail though. It makes me wonder what's going on in the writer's heads....

Modifié par fortunesque, 07 décembre 2010 - 08:19 .

[Collider]

Batteries wrote...

Kaidan does do one thing that all the other LI males do as well. They all reminisce about a past love/some girl to Shepard at some point.

Kaidan: Rahna.

Garrus: Reach and Flexibility turian scout chick.

Jacob: Miranda.(Not as straight forward here, but it is implied.)

Thane: Dead wife.(Plus estranged son that turned to the dark side. How is that not more like Carth than Kaidan? Still love the dude, tho.)

Kaidan does the past love thing the best, imo.

[Collider]

Yeah, everyone Male LI has some baggage in some form. The female LIs never really seem to have exes that they talk about in detail though. It makes me wonder what's going on in the writer's heads....

I wrote this about that subject.

[Daewan]

fortunesque wrote...

Yeah, every Male LI has some baggage in some form. The female LIs never really seem to have exes that they talk about in detail though. It makes me wonder what's going on in the writer's heads....

In general, the female LI's are virgins with daddy issues, or free love advocates who can't remember the name of their last sexual encounter.

[mllrthyme]

Collider wrote...

Yeah, everyone Male LI has some baggage in some form. The female LIs never really seem to have exes that they talk about in detail though. It makes me wonder what's going on in the writer's heads....

I wrote this about that subject.

Carth syndrome = therapy-mance.  It's no fun trying to rehabilitate a potential LI into a healthy loving relationship.  That's an oxymoron.  I like Kaidan's romance because he blatantly states that he's 32 and has already dealt with his issues.  No therapy needed, no strange ex-girlfriend fixations.  To me, the incident with Rhana was the reason he tends to be more reserved and controlled.  I didn't get the feeling that he was bemoaning a lost love.

The female LI's, however, might not have exes that they talk about, except for the Miranda/Jacob relationship.  From what I've seen, the female LIs tend to be either very standoff-ish or cold and calculating, sweet and innocent, and it's up to the male lead to breach their barriers, so to speak. 

LIs without a past seem empty, bland.  If a character is in their late 20s - early 30s they're likely going to have a past with some sort of drama.  It is the way the writers incorporate that history/drama that makes the character more interesting, or in some cases, more neurotic.  Did the character grow from the incident(s), or did it make a whiny b*tch?  If they have no past, no lessons learned, then what could they possibly have to talk about?

[Sialater]

And Miranda never mentions Jacob. (Does she?)



I don't care about the past romances of any of the LI's. ('Cept maybe Thanes... his doesn't really seem IN THE PAST.) They're past. Done. Over.

[fortunesque]

mllrthyme wrote...

Collider wrote...

Yeah, everyone Male LI has some baggage in some form. The female LIs never really seem to have exes that they talk about in detail though. It makes me wonder what's going on in the writer's heads....

I wrote this about that subject.

Carth syndrome = therapy-mance.  It's no fun trying to rehabilitate a potential LI into a healthy loving relationship.  That's an oxymoron.  I like Kaidan's romance because he blatantly states that he's 32 and has already dealt with his issues.  No therapy needed, no strange ex-girlfriend fixations.  To me, the incident with Rhana was the reason he tends to be more reserved and controlled.  I didn't get the feeling that he was bemoaning a lost love.

The female LI's, however, might not have exes that they talk about, except for the Miranda/Jacob relationship.  From what I've seen, the female LIs tend to be either very standoff-ish or cold and calculating, sweet and innocent, and it's up to the male lead to breach their barriers, so to speak. 

LIs without a past seem empty, bland.  If a character is in their late 20s - early 30s they're likely going to have a past with some sort of drama.  It is the way the writers incorporate that history/drama that makes the character more interesting, or in some cases, more neurotic.  Did the character grow from the incident(s), or did it make a whiny b*tch?  If they have no past, no lessons learned, then what could they possibly have to talk about?

This is exactly why LIs like Kaidan and Thane (though I didn't romance him) are interesting; they've learned from something. They admit their wrongs and show how they've moved on from it. 

[magelet]

Sialater wrote...
I don't care about the past romances of any of the LI's. ('Cept maybe Thanes... his doesn't really seem IN THE PAST.) They're past. Done. Over.

I agree. Especially since Kaidan straight up SAYS that he's over it. He doesn't exactly seem to be dwelling on the past, he was just using that story to make a point.

[Sialater]

fortunesque wrote...

mllrthyme wrote...

Collider wrote...

Yeah, everyone Male LI has some baggage in some form. The female LIs never really seem to have exes that they talk about in detail though. It makes me wonder what's going on in the writer's heads....

I wrote this about that subject.

Carth syndrome = therapy-mance.  It's no fun trying to rehabilitate a potential LI into a healthy loving relationship.  That's an oxymoron.  I like Kaidan's romance because he blatantly states that he's 32 and has already dealt with his issues.  No therapy needed, no strange ex-girlfriend fixations.  To me, the incident with Rhana was the reason he tends to be more reserved and controlled.  I didn't get the feeling that he was bemoaning a lost love.

The female LI's, however, might not have exes that they talk about, except for the Miranda/Jacob relationship.  From what I've seen, the female LIs tend to be either very standoff-ish or cold and calculating, sweet and innocent, and it's up to the male lead to breach their barriers, so to speak. 

LIs without a past seem empty, bland.  If a character is in their late 20s - early 30s they're likely going to have a past with some sort of drama.  It is the way the writers incorporate that history/drama that makes the character more interesting, or in some cases, more neurotic.  Did the character grow from the incident(s), or did it make a whiny b*tch?  If they have no past, no lessons learned, then what could they possibly have to talk about?

This is exactly why LIs like Kaidan and Thane (though I didn't romance him) are interesting; they've learned from something. They admit their wrongs and show how they've moved on from it. 

Maturity is boring, Fort.   Didn't you know?

[fortunesque]

Sialater wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

This is exactly why LIs like Kaidan and Thane (though I didn't romance him) are interesting; they've learned from something. They admit their wrongs and show how they've moved on from it. 

Maturity is boring, Fort.   Didn't you know?

Sorry. What the hell was I thinking? 

[Nightodie]

Hello Everyone!!!

I am here to remind you that the prompt assignment in the:

Kaidan Alenko Prompt Project

ends tomorrow.  Voting begins tomorrow night. If you are artist or author or just want to be one, come join us and see what you can make of the prompt. Not an author or artist, come see what we come up with. There is lots of fun in the KAAS even if you don't write or do art

Join Us!!!!

Kaidan would want you to....



Ask him, I dare you.

Modifié par Nightodie, 07 décembre 2010 - 11:09 .

[Jenova65]

Daewan wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Yeah, every Male LI has some baggage in some form. The female LIs never really seem to have exes that they talk about in detail though. It makes me wonder what's going on in the writer's heads....

In general, the female LI's are virgins with daddy issues, or free love advocates who can't remember the name of their last sexual encounter.

Which proves that they are being written by men who like the whole 'no-one but you', or 'I'm anyone's for a pint of lager and a bag of chips'', thing (for chips read fries *is English*)  
The way Kaidan is written he would definitely go for the first option or at least the 'only with someone I really care for', type. Jack, for example would have nothing  to interest Kaidan in a romantic scenario.

[fortunesque]

Hmmm... allow me to bring up an interesting and highly divisive subject for the sake of doing so:



If you could ship Kaidan with another character, who would it be and why?

[Jean]

fortunesque wrote...

Hmmm... allow me to bring up an interesting and highly divisive subject for the sake of doing so:

If you could ship Kaidan with another character, who would it be and why?

Kaiden.

And just because I can:



.......

[chem light]

fortunesque wrote...

Hmmm... allow me to bring up an interesting and highly divisive subject for the sake of doing so:

If you could ship Kaidan with another character, who would it be and why?

ship as in shipper?

[syllogi]

fortunesque wrote...

Hmmm... allow me to bring up an interesting and highly divisive subject for the sake of doing so:

If you could ship Kaidan with another character, who would it be and why?

Umm...Sheploo???

I like the idea of Miranda/Kaidan.  Because I like Miranda, and I can see the friction between them turning into...tension.  

I've always thought squadmate pairings would make for interesting fan fiction.  I've always enjoyed "unconventional" ships in fan fiction, though...