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[Biotic_Warlock]

Heeeeeeere's Joker!



My Rachni problem seems to have resolved itself...

[Nhani]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

sesheta255 wrote...
I lost count of the number of times I played ME, but I'm finding I have to force myself through each successive playthrough of ME2 (planet scanning doesn't help either) - its just hard to get immersed in the story, it feels incomplete. I'm actually wondering whether the change of game mechanics took longer than BW thought and they had to rush to get it out because the game feels rushed to me.  

Never thought of that...but now that you said it...it does feel incomplete.

To add a contrary flip perspective.. I actually felt a little the other way - I admit, part of it is that I'm so familiar with the choices and dialogue turns I take in the first Mass Effect that it's less of an experience and more of a habit by now, but I actually felt Mass Effect 2 was more complete; it just had a few quirky design choices.

Mass Effect 1 was littered with occasions where the game would suddenly ignore dialogue and just pop up a little information box just telling you what happened rather than showing it, often diminishing or outright ignoring team member input in the process. The most stark example was the pendant you get from the consort - they have this huge expositionary piece on the Protheans and it's all in text - they even have pieces of text giving generic lines to your team mates all in a few text boxes. Mass Effect 1 felt large, but empty and unfilled, in a way.

Mass Effect 2 felt far more complete to me - but also smaller (ironic, since I think it actually takes me longer to do a complete playthrough of the second).

What I will admit however is that Mass Effect 2 feels more like semi-isolated vignettes than a singular, comprehensive story. We have all these events going on around us, some which relate to things in Mass Effect 1, some which seem like they're there to set up for Mass Effect 3, and even the main quest seems to be largely just setup for the final chapter, really. With Mass Effect 1, most quests - both side and main - had to do with the main plot: Geth, Reapers and Saren, with a few asides for Cerberus and other exposition. In Mass Effect 2, it bounces around a whole lot more, seeming like it's desperately trying to set the stage for the third game, while still somehow providing enough plot on its own. So many quest resolutions are like Ps: Dark Energy, or Ps: Unite all against Reapers. It sets the stage but doesn't actually use it yet.

Of course, I admit.. one of the reasons I find Mass Effect 2 more compelling than the first is because in many ways it's more personal - it's no longer about a Shepard, it's about my Shepard. Funny how much of an effect that has.

But, I'm getting sidetracked, so I'll stop there.

[Jhourney]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

I think you pretty much sum up my frustration perfectly.

And all the effort they put into those new characters kind of failed for me. I liked a few...Mordin, Samara, and Legion. Even liked Zaeed to an extent because I didn't have to worry about him hitting on me. But for the most part the new characters just didn't hold my interest.

Yes, I was looking for Kaidan...I would even say that I thought about him the entire time I played but in my opinion that just reveals how great a character he was in the first place and the fact that the new ones couldn't take my mind off of him(and to a lesser extent the old crew...I even missed Pressley) just proves that the new characters didn't hold a candle to the old ones. 

It's kinda like watching the second season of Lost(or your favorite show) and finding out all the new characters have been replaced. It feels like you've been punched in the gut. Just my opinion.

***NwN2 MotB Spoilers inc***




Or hearing all the characters you cared about got buried under a pile of rock in NwN2 MotB. While I liked the expansion, I was frustrated with characters being killed off so easily and then a new LI is being pushed in your direction. Like I would go  "Oh shiney!" and forget all about the old characters.
While, unlike in ME2, I actually liked the new LI in that game, it's still annoying.

[BECC4]

Jhosephine wrote...
***NwN2 MotB Spoilers inc***




Or hearing all the characters you cared about got buried under a pile of rock in NwN2 MotB. While I liked the expansion, I was frustrated with characters being killed off so easily and then a new LI is being pushed in your direction. Like I would go  "Oh shiney!" and forget all about the old characters.
While, unlike in ME2, I actually liked the new LI in that game, it's still annoying.

God that ending sucked! 

The expansion was alright but the only person I wanted to romance I couldn't, well at least until someone modded it.  Grrrr, I loved NWN2 spent many time on the forums but god I hated that ending.

[BECC4]

Nhani wrote...
Of course, I admit.. one of the reasons I find Mass Effect 2 more compelling than the first is because in many ways it's more personal - it's no longer about a Shepard, it's about my Shepard. Funny how much of an effect that has.

This is where it falls down for me, I can't say I find it more compelling.  It is personal but my Shepard just spent the entire time looking for or hoping Kaidan would make an appearance. 

He's become such an integral part of the game for me that I can't process exactly what I feel about ME2 and I know it's because he wasn't there.  Sure it was fun to play and the fighting was better but the lack of conversation left me feeling like something wasn't quite right.

I don't honestly think I'll be able to make my mind up about ME2 until ME3 comes out because at that point depending on where they take the romance.  I'll either love it for the suspense, or hate it because we got shafted (and not in a fun way either!). 

Modifié par BECC4, 21 février 2010 - 12:38 .

[shaunarz]

Celestria129 wrote...



Now it is offical:wub:

I only quoted your post to re-post shirtless Kaiden.
Meowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

KAIDEN AS LI AND SQUADMATE IN ME3!! DO YOU HEAR US BIOWARE??

[Joisan]

shaunarz wrote...

Celestria129 wrote...



Now it is offical:wub:

I only quoted your post to re-post shirtless Kaiden.
Meowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

KAIDEN AS LI AND SQUADMATE IN ME3!! DO YOU HEAR US BIOWARE??

Shaun, your signature is so full of win!  Reminds me of the time I got the guy I was interested in Mass Effect for his birthday.  I think I successfully converted him to Mass Effect fanhood, but unfortunately I found out later he already has a girlfriend. 

[Nhani]

BECC4 wrote...
This is where it falls down for me, I can't say I find it more compelling, It is personal but I just spent the entire time looking for of hoping Kiadan would make an appearance. 

He's become such an integral part of the game for me that I can't process exactly what I feel about ME2 and I know it's because he wasn't there.  Sure it was fun to play and the fighting was better but the lack of conversation left me feeling like something wasn't quite right.

True, I imagine - I think it's quite possibly easier for me because I've gotten somewhat used to setting up extended narratives where there's a setup, then a long time with just a few hints before the actual payoff at the end. Kaidan is definitely a very integral part of Kate's story though, and I doubt I would've taken it nearly as well if they'd just shot him in the head and told me to deal with it.

I admit, just after the first stop by Horizon I felt a little lost as to what I was doing - I wasn't at all prepared for his arrival or anything, so the whole exchange just took me off guard, and my first reaction was that it felt like an obvious way of BioWare going "It's okay, it's fine, you can pick another love interest if you want.".

The letter actually didn't help the situation much for me, not at first, and for awhile I was half caught between trying to decide whether one of the other love interests might intrigue me enough or not. I ultimately decided against because it felt off somehow, none of them really struck me as.. well.. "proper replacements" (so to speak) and then came the scene with Kate staring at Kaidan's picture and I suddenly felt completely vindicated about choosing to stay with him, because that scene seemed to hold so much weight and was almost like BioWare coming by and saying they hadn't forgotten about those who stuck with their first love interest.

Add the hints dropped with earlier developer interviews how they seemed to want there to be repercussions regarding whether or not you abandoned your prior love interest in the second game, and I'm feeling quite at ease that it's not over yet. I suppose the best way to say it is that I'm fine with the break in the relationship between Kate and Kaidan because I felt they dropped enough hints that they'll get the time to sort it all out between them in the third game.

[sesheta255]

I really think that the planet scanning had a great deal to do with the feeling of not being immersed in the game. At least with the dreaded Mako, you had your squadmates with you, but having to stop & scan planets really breaks up the game too much (or if you're old like me you have to think back to whaere you were up to, lol). Plus too many new characters and not enough interaction with the old ones who didn't even acknowledge former team mates (Garrus & Tali). I liked the fact in ME1 that you did a main mission, then either went back to the Citadel or had some contact with the Alliance (through Hackett), or the council- sorted of tied it all together. I know that TIM contacts you occassionally but because I don't consider that Shep is working for Cerberus, but rather using them or viewing them as a temporary necessary evil, talking to him didn't really do much for me. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "incomplete" earlier but rather "disjointed".

[Nhani]

sesheta255 wrote...
I really think that the planet scanning had a great deal to do with the feeling of not being immersed in the game. At least with the dreaded Mako, you had your squadmates with you, but having to stop & scan planets really breaks up the game too much (or if you're old like me you have to think back to whaere you were up to, lol). Plus too many new characters and not enough interaction with the old ones who didn't even acknowledge former team mates (Garrus & Tali). I liked the fact in ME1 that you did a main mission, then either went back to the Citadel or had some contact with the Alliance (through Hackett), or the council- sorted of tied it all together. I know that TIM contacts you occassionally but because I don't consider that Shep is working for Cerberus, but rather using them or viewing them as a temporary necessary evil, talking to him didn't really do much for me. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "incomplete" earlier but rather "disjointed".

Disjointed I can definitely agree with - like said, it really strikes me as a series of vignettes rather than a singular narrative, while I think each singular element is a bit more refined compared to the first game.. they don't relate or interact nearly as much.

In Mass Effect 1, there were signs of Geth, Saren or the Reapers in plenty of places, and it felt like most of the times you were arguably looking for signs and clues of what was going on. Compare this to Mass Effect 2, and there's very few missions aside from the main ones that have anything to do with the Collectors; they're mentioned to have caused the Omega plague and there's that one prothean relic.. but other than that?

Instead, we're fed other hints; Tali's recruitment and loyalty missions have this Dark Energy thing going on - Gianna Parsini mentions it as well - and how we May Need Both The Quarians And The Geth In The Next Game Hint Hint. Anything with Legion take the latter even further. Mordin is about the Krogan Genophage and how we might need them too, and the Rachni show up (if you spared them) only to go "Hi, we'll help you against the Reapers in the third game."

Mass Effect 2 does suffer from being the middle chapter in that it seems to exist mostly to just kill time, provide exposition and set the stage for the third game. They could've solved it in other ways, but I think I can see how it could all come together enough in the third game that I can personally forgive it. I can see how others might not, though; especially with extensive interaction with Kaidan (among other things) being one of the casualties in the interest of setting the stage for the final chapter.

[Joisan]

Yay! I finally got the picture thing to work. So here she is, Mia Shepard in the (virtual) flesh. What do you all think? (And feel free to be honest, please!)

[Mrs Templar]

 I just remember hearing in interview after interview how we will just love the new improved combat/shooting in ME2.  I suppose it did widen their possible audience base, but I feel ME2 did a poor job of maintaining Bioware's true/original fan base.  I play their games for the RPG aspect.  If I wanted to play shooters there are more than enough out there to choose from.  I just hope they remember to focus on their characters/dialog/relationships in ME3.  I still hold out hope for ME3, but my opinion of all future Bioware titles will be hanging in the balance until its release.

I am playing ME2 with my canon FemShep now.  I have done almost all of the loyalty missions.  Since I am not romancing any of the new characters I have found my only interactions on the ship are when Kelly tells me I have new messages.  It feels hollow and tedious.  

IMO ME2 does not even progress the main storyline very much at all.  We still have to fight the reapers, we still don't know exactly how many there are, where they will arrive first, how we will stop them and the council still doesn't believe us.  

Modifié par Mrs Templar, 21 février 2010 - 01:52 .

[BECC4]

Joisan wrote...

Yay! I finally got the picture thing to work. So here she is, Mia Shepard in the (virtual) flesh. What do you all think? (And feel free to be honest, please!)

She's pretty, looks quite young and innocent and she definietly reminds me of someone, I just can't put my finger on it ............

[Darazelly]

Well, in ME1 it was basically a matter of gathering everything together; the Reapers, their goals, their abilities, and so on, and in ME2 it feels more like.. You've thrown everything up in the air while adding one or two more pieces, and it's not until in ME3 it will land and we can puzzle it all together.

[Milana_Saros]

Mrs Templar wrote...



I am playing ME2 with my canon FemShep now.  I have done almost all of the loyalty missions.  Since I am not romancing any of the new characters I have found my only interactions on the ship are when Kelly tells me I have new messages.  It feels hollow and tedious.  

Indeed...I just actually played through ME1 just to talk to Kaidan. I was first planning on making it my new more-Renegade playthrough but renegade more or less sucks so I just ended up rushing the missions so I could talk to Kaidan. Now that I could compare ME1 to ME2 it really was amazing how much Kaidan/Ashley actually impact the story, they say something in nearly every conversation, Kaidan even yelling "You bastard! You sold us out!" to Udina.

I want that back for ME3. I really really do. I simply can't make myself go through another ME2 playthrough simply to reach lvl30, it feels like a chore, an incredibly lonely chore.

[Joisan]

BECC4 wrote...

Joisan wrote...

Yay! I finally got the picture thing to work. So here she is, Mia Shepard in the (virtual) flesh. What do you all think? (And feel free to be honest, please!)

She's pretty, looks quite young and innocent and she definietly reminds me of someone, I just can't put my finger on it ............

Aww thanks.  She wasn't really meant to look like any real live person, so any resemblance is purely accidental.  As for young, maybe it's a subconscious tendency on my part to make my characters look fairly young because I can identify more strongly with characters that look closer to my actual age.  Though at 31, Shepard is hardly an old lady.

[Joisan]

Milana_Saros wrote...

Indeed...I just actually played through ME1 just to talk to Kaidan. I was first planning on making it my new more-Renegade playthrough but renegade more or less sucks so I just ended up rushing the missions so I could talk to Kaidan. Now that I could compare ME1 to ME2 it really was amazing how much Kaidan/Ashley actually impact the story, they say something in nearly every conversation, Kaidan even yelling "You bastard! You sold us out!" to Udina.

I want that back for ME3. I really really do. I simply can't make myself go through another ME2 playthrough simply to reach lvl30, it feels like a chore, an incredibly lonely chore.

Yeah, I think my canon playthrough I'm working on right now with Mia and my insanity playthrough will be my last two runthroughs of ME2.  Maybe I'll go back to playing DA:O for a little... I haven't seen Return to Ostagar yet and as I recall Awakening is still on the way.

[Milana_Saros]

Joisan wrote...

Milana_Saros wrote...

Indeed...I just actually played through ME1 just to talk to Kaidan. I was first planning on making it my new more-Renegade playthrough but renegade more or less sucks so I just ended up rushing the missions so I could talk to Kaidan. Now that I could compare ME1 to ME2 it really was amazing how much Kaidan/Ashley actually impact the story, they say something in nearly every conversation, Kaidan even yelling "You bastard! You sold us out!" to Udina.

I want that back for ME3. I really really do. I simply can't make myself go through another ME2 playthrough simply to reach lvl30, it feels like a chore, an incredibly lonely chore.

Yeah, I think my canon playthrough I'm working on right now with Mia and my insanity playthrough will be my last two runthroughs of ME2.  Maybe I'll go back to playing DA:O for a little... I haven't seen Return to Ostagar yet and as I recall Awakening is still on the way.

Ah yes Awakening....just read the FAQ for it. No romances - at all, the returning party member is apparently Orghen (wtf?) and Alistair for example only has a cameo role...OMG it's happening again!!!

Is there some weird conspiracy going on?

[Mrs Templar]

Milana_Saros wrote...

Joisan wrote...

Milana_Saros wrote...

Indeed...I just actually played through ME1 just to talk to Kaidan. I was first planning on making it my new more-Renegade playthrough but renegade more or less sucks so I just ended up rushing the missions so I could talk to Kaidan. Now that I could compare ME1 to ME2 it really was amazing how much Kaidan/Ashley actually impact the story, they say something in nearly every conversation, Kaidan even yelling "You bastard! You sold us out!" to Udina.

I want that back for ME3. I really really do. I simply can't make myself go through another ME2 playthrough simply to reach lvl30, it feels like a chore, an incredibly lonely chore.

Yeah, I think my canon playthrough I'm working on right now with Mia and my insanity playthrough will be my last two runthroughs of ME2.  Maybe I'll go back to playing DA:O for a little... I haven't seen Return to Ostagar yet and as I recall Awakening is still on the way.

Ah yes Awakening....just read the FAQ for it. No romances - at all, the returning party member is apparently Orghen (wtf?) and Alistair for example only has a cameo role...OMG it's happening again!!!

Is there some weird conspiracy going on?

I am not sure how they will explain my warden going off and leaving Alistair considering we are either married or travelling/wardening together.  Maybe he will just be mad, not allow me to explain myself and then he will storm off towards the horizon.  

[BECC4]

Milana_Saros wrote...
Ah yes Awakening....just read the FAQ for it. No romances - at all, the returning party member is apparently Orghen (wtf?) and Alistair for example only has a cameo role...OMG it's happening again!!!

Is there some weird conspiracy going on?  

Part of me wonders if it's a test, you know to guage how important the romances are to people.  There are a lot of people who blather on about not wanting romances and the way they impact the story is unfair for those who opt not to have them, blah, blah, blah.

Or many it's like a punishment, if you don't stop whining we'll remove them altogether, see how you like that!

Just random thoughts.

[BECC4]

Mrs Templar wrote...
I am not sure how they will explain my warden going off and leaving Alistair considering we are either married or travelling/wardening together.  Maybe he will just be mad, not allow me to explain myself and then he will storm off towards the horizon.   

Haha!  I like what you did there

[Milana_Saros]

Mrs Templar wrote...

I am not sure how they will explain my warden going off and leaving Alistair considering we are either married or travelling/wardening together.  Maybe he will just be mad, not allow me to explain myself and then he will storm off towards the horizon.  

Haha, indeed!

Oh look my avatar vanished again...go figure.

[chem light]

Oh no...all this ME2 angst. Kaidan thread, you need a hug.

[chem light]

[Joisan]

Mrs Templar wrote...

Milana_Saros wrote...

Joisan wrote...

Milana_Saros wrote...

Indeed...I just actually played through ME1 just to talk to Kaidan. I was first planning on making it my new more-Renegade playthrough but renegade more or less sucks so I just ended up rushing the missions so I could talk to Kaidan. Now that I could compare ME1 to ME2 it really was amazing how much Kaidan/Ashley actually impact the story, they say something in nearly every conversation, Kaidan even yelling "You bastard! You sold us out!" to Udina.

I want that back for ME3. I really really do. I simply can't make myself go through another ME2 playthrough simply to reach lvl30, it feels like a chore, an incredibly lonely chore.

Yeah, I think my canon playthrough I'm working on right now with Mia and my insanity playthrough will be my last two runthroughs of ME2.  Maybe I'll go back to playing DA:O for a little... I haven't seen Return to Ostagar yet and as I recall Awakening is still on the way.

Ah yes Awakening....just read the FAQ for it. No romances - at all, the returning party member is apparently Orghen (wtf?) and Alistair for example only has a cameo role...OMG it's happening again!!!

Is there some weird conspiracy going on?

I am not sure how they will explain my warden going off and leaving Alistair considering we are either married or travelling/wardening together.  Maybe he will just be mad, not allow me to explain myself and then he will storm off towards the horizon.  

 Nice!  Thanks for letting me know about the no romance part... I may just have to not buy Awakening, then.