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[Jhourney]

Btw, can one of those with custom avatars PM me the details about it please?

[MICHELLE7]

Nhani wrote...

They definitely have different aims - Mass Effect struck me as having a much more.. well.. cinematic focus, with a more defined lead character and the whole approach to shot angles and everything. Dragon Age is more built as a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate-like games and throws more text at you, but the lead character feels more generic and there's much less focus on a cinematic cutting, both in terms of cutscenes and just dialogue.

There's strengths, merits and weaknesses with both approaches. I'm actually curious how well you could combine them without losing out anywhere. Suppose BioWare might have us find out, somewhere down the line.

DAO is much more of a hardcore RPG...actually kind of lends itself to not having a voice for the PC( although I would prefer it). You get to mold your character.

Your right about Shepard being more defined by the game from the start. But still I felt that they gave you a little bit of leeway with that in ME. Paragon or Renegade or something in between. You couldn't role play as much as you could in DAO but you could to an extent.

The problem is that in ME2 I didn't feel like I could roleplay much at all. The dialog options and the story seemed to converge into one definition of who Shep was. The best and closest I could do in staying in character with the Femshep I had in ME was to avoid numerous dialog choices. And that kind of made for an empty gaming experience at least in my opinion. It's a great shooter, I just didn't find it to be a great RPG.

[MICHELLE7]

Jhosephine wrote...

Btw, can one of those with custom avatars PM me the details about it please?

Done.

[Nhani]

Doug84 wrote...
*discretely hides the lump of radiactive charcoal that used to be Kaidan in most of his ME1 games*

Yeah, thats fair enough  I suspect MaleShep and FemShep had different takes the level of friendship with Kaidan and Ashley, heh. Same with the players. Though I liked Kaidan, and he certainly wasn't as dull as Jacob, who I wanted to like, but just couldn't find anything to like or hate about him.

And yeah, the femshep/jacob thing is best described as 'seedy' and hidden under a veil

I'm sure we can all unite and blame BioWare for forcing us to make a choice to begin with!

Yeah, I thought I'd like Jacob, really, I did - I'd kind of gotten to like him from Mass Effect Galaxy and he was helpful and forthcoming from the get go. Seemed like the man to go to when you needed something done or wanted an honest opinion on something, so I found it slightly disconcerting how I ended up avoiding him simply because trying to talk to him was.. awkward.

Of course, I'm aware how in BioWare games it can be.. difficult.. to talk to a love interest without sparking a romance (I recall I had one playthrough of Dragon Age where I'd very much decided not to romance Alistair and found that hope dashed when he gave me the puppy eyes. Bastard.), but the delivery of the chat with Jacob just took that to a whole new level, seemingly without providing a convenient elevator back down again.

[Doug84]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

Weird thing is, with DA...the physical contact was much better done in the start of the game than it was in the end. Just look at how Fergus comforts his wife, how Eleanor is with her husband, how Teyrn Cousland himself really shows emotion and physical pain. But as time passes in the game, those details fade away. Like waking up with Alistair in the prison and seeing your Warden passed out on the floor while he sits on the opposite side of the room doing nothing. Why isn't he at least holding her?

Detail work often gets scratched because of time and money restraints but still, I felt it went downhill the further I got in DA. And yet so much of a game's greatness can be found in the detail. Like Kaidan's face the moment he gets interrupted before kissing Shepard, loved that, but also how Shepard herself seemed vulnerable for once.

Oh well, guess we can't have it all.

The thing with Alistair and the Warden in the prison was probably that they didn't want to take the time to make two different scenes since not everyone would have romanced him. I realize the game was huge but they took what...five years with it(or so I heard)...I could have done with a slightly smaller game with more detail myself. And yeah, You're right I hadn't thought about it but most of the the origins stories had a lot more detail in them. 

Where DAO seemed to go downhill, ME went uphill...the romance with Kaidan just continued to build and build and build...the anticipation for what was coming is what made it so rewarding in the end... at least to me.

Yeah, with these games, its always a trade off between detail and scope. More scope, less detail, and vice-versa. And of course, there is an upper limit of both anyways - there's only so much time and money you can spend, after all.

[MICHELLE7]

Doug84 wrote...

Honestly? This is what I like about Ashley as well - she doesn't keep her opinions to herself, even if they aren't what the player wants to her (and it has resulted in a negative 'Ash is a racist' view that isn't really fair). But like Kaiden, she'll do her best to help inspite of her own feelings towards the choice of action.

And this is the thing I find more real and sincere about both Ash and Kaidan...they seemed like real friends to Shep unlike a lot of the other characters who simply seemed starstruck. It was totally in character as far as I was concerned that they were the ones that tried to warn Shep about Cerberus on Horizon. I think they were looking out for Shep's best interest. Just wish there could have been more interaction and more follow ups later.

[Nhani]

MICHELLE7 wrote...
DAO is much more of a hardcore RPG...actually kind of lends itself to not having a voice for the PC( although I would prefer it). You get to mold your character.

Your right about Shepard being more defined by the game from the start. But still I felt that they gave you a little bit of leeway with that in ME. Paragon or Renegade or something in between. You couldn't role play as much as you could in DAO but you could to an extent.

I can see that; I think a lot of it is much up to personal taste. I found the lack of personal character in Dragon Age a tad anomalous since while you were free to mold your character.. the world seemed to completely ignore any effort you put in doing so. Mass Effect strikes me as a bit more aware of who you are and what you've done, at the cost of limiting your choices more.

I'll admit, part of the reason I love Mass Effect 2 is because the game came up and acknowledged so much of what I'd done in the first game that I was playing my character, and that my character was important. Compare this to Dragon Age where my character didn't really feel that much a key element since it was far more about the people around you.

That said, there's merits to both and I thought both enjoyable experiences. And while I personally prefer the Mass Effect series so far, there's definitely some things I think Dragon Age does better, and I can completely see why some would prefer the way it handles things  

[Doug84]

Nhani wrote...

Doug84 wrote...
*discretely hides the lump of radiactive charcoal that used to be Kaidan in most of his ME1 games*

Yeah, thats fair enough  I suspect MaleShep and FemShep had different takes the level of friendship with Kaidan and Ashley, heh. Same with the players. Though I liked Kaidan, and he certainly wasn't as dull as Jacob, who I wanted to like, but just couldn't find anything to like or hate about him.

And yeah, the femshep/jacob thing is best described as 'seedy' and hidden under a veil

I'm sure we can all unite and blame BioWare for forcing us to make a choice to begin with!

Yeah, I thought I'd like Jacob, really, I did - I'd kind of gotten to like him from Mass Effect Galaxy and he was helpful and forthcoming from the get go. Seemed like the man to go to when you needed something done or wanted an honest opinion on something, so I found it slightly disconcerting how I ended up avoiding him simply because trying to talk to him was.. awkward.

Of course, I'm aware how in BioWare games it can be.. difficult.. to talk to a love interest without sparking a romance (I recall I had one playthrough of Dragon Age where I'd very much decided not to romance Alistair and found that hope dashed when he gave me the puppy eyes. Bastard.), but the delivery of the chat with Jacob just took that to a whole new level, seemingly without providing a convenient elevator back down again.

True, but if they didn't make you decide, you wouldn't have remembered the game as being that awesome

And I did want to like Jacob, especially after ME:Galaxy, but he man just seemed to have nothing to him. I mean, we find his dad as 'Lord of the Flies' with his own personal harem and Jacob's response just seemed very lack-luster for that. "You where better off dead" didn't sound very cutting or condemning, even though Jacob clearly hated his father for what he'd done. I would have been a tad more angry to say the least, or expressed some sort of emotion about it...*sigh* He just seemed like a wasted opportunity - fortunately, pretty much the only wasted character.

And yes... DA:O was actually worse for that, IMO - I wanted all my team to have alot of respect for me, so I gave them all goods and gifts and stuff. And my first time, I romanced Leliana - all good I thought. Then Morrigan was like "I thought you where with me, not that creature" - I was like "Wha-!? I haven't said anything like that!"

Apparently the game assumes that if you've given them gifts, you've decided to romance them. Though to their credit, once you say 'no thank you' they seem to return to a friendship state.

[Doug84]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Nhani wrote...

They definitely have different aims - Mass Effect struck me as having a much more.. well.. cinematic focus, with a more defined lead character and the whole approach to shot angles and everything. Dragon Age is more built as a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate-like games and throws more text at you, but the lead character feels more generic and there's much less focus on a cinematic cutting, both in terms of cutscenes and just dialogue.

There's strengths, merits and weaknesses with both approaches. I'm actually curious how well you could combine them without losing out anywhere. Suppose BioWare might have us find out, somewhere down the line.

DAO is much more of a hardcore RPG...actually kind of lends itself to not having a voice for the PC( although I would prefer it). You get to mold your character.

Your right about Shepard being more defined by the game from the start. But still I felt that they gave you a little bit of leeway with that in ME. Paragon or Renegade or something in between. You couldn't role play as much as you could in DAO but you could to an extent.

The problem is that in ME2 I didn't feel like I could roleplay much at all. The dialog options and the story seemed to converge into one definition of who Shep was. The best and closest I could do in staying in character with the Femshep I had in ME was to avoid numerous dialog choices. And that kind of made for an empty gaming experience at least in my opinion. It's a great shooter, I just didn't find it to be a great RPG.

I think DA:O's problem isn't that their letting you mold a character so much as having a puppet that you speak through - its like, Warden is a non-entity in the world, if you see what I mean. Shepard, I actually felt like he had his own life force, if you see what I mean? We look at the character equipment screen and we just see him/her as he/she is (*hides his female rogue*).

As shallow as it sounds, I think all they needed to do was to add a voice to the Warden and I would have started to see him/her as an entity in their own right.

But as you say, the trade off their is that the depth of dialog would have mean it'd be expensive to hire another 2 voice actors (male and female) to read out the dialog - though I think they could get away with only 2 if they just used voice mods to, for example, make the male's voice deeper as a dwarf, and the females as higher pitched for an elf.

EDIT: And I talk too much, heh. I'll give this thread alittle break for an hour or so before posting again

Modifié par Doug84, 22 février 2010 - 01:39 .

[Nhani]

Doug84 wrote...
True, but if they didn't make you decide, you wouldn't have remembered the game as being that awesome 

Hah, agreed, completely. I remember the first time I got to that point it came completely by surprise and I was literally staring at the dialogue screen for something like 5-10 minutes wondering just how the heck they expected me to decide.

I actually felt rather guilty the first time around when Kaidan rightfully called my Shepard out on having picked him over Ash because Shepard had feelings for him.

[Doug84]

Nhani wrote...

Doug84 wrote...
True, but if they didn't make you decide, you wouldn't have remembered the game as being that awesome 

Hah, agreed, completely. I remember the first time I got to that point it came completely by surprise and I was literally staring at the dialogue screen for something like 5-10 minutes wondering just how the heck they expected me to decide.

I actually felt rather guilty the first time around when Kaidan rightfully called my Shepard out on having picked him over Ash because Shepard had feelings for him.

Hehe, true - though in my defence, I thought on my first run through the mission, "Ok, Ashley's with the bomb, its important the bomb detonates, so thats mission critical - Kaidan the Salarians, not so much"

So I technically had a valid reason other than Ashley to go back to the bomb

[Nhani]

Doug84 wrote...
Hehe, true - though in my defence, I thought on my first run through the mission, "Ok, Ashley's with the bomb, its important the bomb detonates, so thats mission critical - Kaidan the Salarians, not so much"

So I technically had a valid reason other than Ashley to go back to the bomb

I'd put Ash with the bomb too my first time, actually.. so I had like either I go back to Ash and the bomb and save the lower ranking chief and gain clear conscience at the cost of losing the guy Shepard likes, or I keep going, save Kaidan who's the ranking officer but accept that it's really for ulterior motives.

Greater guilt versus greater loss. Really one of those defining moments, it was great.

Latter playthroughs I generally put Kaidan with the bomb. Not so much as an excuse but because it means I get to see Kate pick him up and drag him onto the Normandy.

[Doug84]

Nhani wrote...

Doug84 wrote...
Hehe, true - though in my defence, I thought on my first run through the mission, "Ok, Ashley's with the bomb, its important the bomb detonates, so thats mission critical - Kaidan the Salarians, not so much"

So I technically had a valid reason other than Ashley to go back to the bomb

I'd put Ash with the bomb too my first time, actually.. so I had like either I go back to Ash and the bomb and save the lower ranking chief and gain clear conscience at the cost of losing the guy Shepard likes, or I keep going, save Kaidan who's the ranking officer but accept that it's really for ulterior motives.

Greater guilt versus greater loss. Really one of those defining moments, it was great.

Latter playthroughs I generally put Kaidan with the bomb. Not so much as an excuse but because it means I get to see Kate pick him up and drag him onto the Normandy.

Hehe, true-true. Though I generally put Ash with the Salarians so I can save those guys too whilst I'm saving Ash's bacon. 

[sapphyreelf]

Kaidan is always at the bomb in my playthroughs. This is because my tactics normally involve him being a part of my 3 person squad. So, Ashley always gets volunteered to go with the Salarians. I still wish I could recommend they take someone else with the Salarians.

[Alice829]

OK, so I'm late to the party, but I want all you wonderful posters to know there's at least one lurker out here who really enjoys reading all your stuff, and is slogging through all 175 pages of the first thread (don't want to miss one of lady winde's wonderful drawings - I really love them). I had just about given up on forums - people get so nasty if you don't agree with them - and it seemed like everyone hated Kaidan, who I loved from ME1. So it was really nice to find some fellow travelers, who had some very similar feelings! And some of the posts have me collapsing on the floor with laughter. Love you all, even though I don't know any of you.



So, for the record, I did go with Thane on my 2nd playthrough for the achievement, but it felt all wrong, and I don't think I'll be doing it again. My jaw hit the floor when I realized Shep was actually hitting on Garrus - Garrus, my buddy, my bro, GARRUS???? Horrible. Besides... yee-ouch. And Jacob just made me cringe. I actually trusted Miranda more - at least she tells you up front that she wants to slap a control chip on you, and she doesn't like that you're so hostile to Cerberus "after all they've done for you." I can respect that, even if it doesn't make me fond of her. But Jacob talks out of both sides of his mouth; on one hand, he says he doesn't like Cerberus, doesn't trust them, blah blah, but he takes their money, and unlike Shep, actually chose to work for them. Hypocrite. I avoided him as much as possible.



Kaidan told you way back in ME1 the night before Ilos that if he didn't think you were doing the right thing, he wouldn't be here, and he made good on it on Horizon. It was awful, but you had to respect that he stuck to his principles, even if he didn't know the whole story. One more reason I really missed him in ME2, where it felt like almost everyone had their own agenda and wanted something from you. He'd BETTER have a big role in ME3.....

[Jhourney]

Alice829 wrote...

OK, so I'm late to the party, but I want all you wonderful posters to know there's at least one lurker out here who really enjoys reading all your stuff, and is slogging through all 175 pages of the first thread (don't want to miss one of lady winde's wonderful drawings - I really love them). I had just about given up on forums - people get so nasty if you don't agree with them - and it seemed like everyone hated Kaidan, who I loved from ME1. So it was really nice to find some fellow travelers, who had some very similar feelings! And some of the posts have me collapsing on the floor with laughter. Love you all, even though I don't know any of you.

So, for the record, I did go with Thane on my 2nd playthrough for the achievement, but it felt all wrong, and I don't think I'll be doing it again. My jaw hit the floor when I realized Shep was actually hitting on Garrus - Garrus, my buddy, my bro, GARRUS???? Horrible. Besides... yee-ouch. And Jacob just made me cringe. I actually trusted Miranda more - at least she tells you up front that she wants to slap a control chip on you, and she doesn't like that you're so hostile to Cerberus "after all they've done for you." I can respect that, even if it doesn't make me fond of her. But Jacob talks out of both sides of his mouth; on one hand, he says he doesn't like Cerberus, doesn't trust them, blah blah, but he takes their money, and unlike Shep, actually chose to work for them. Hypocrite. I avoided him as much as possible.

Kaidan told you way back in ME1 the night before Ilos that if he didn't think you were doing the right thing, he wouldn't be here, and he made good on it on Horizon. It was awful, but you had to respect that he stuck to his principles, even if he didn't know the whole story. One more reason I really missed him in ME2, where it felt like almost everyone had their own agenda and wanted something from you. He'd BETTER have a big role in ME3.....

Welcome and lovely post Indeed Kaidan does deserve some respect for sticking to his principles, even though deep down I curse him for them as well. (really wanted some fluff after two years of waiting for ME2)

On a different note, just got home from the dentist, can't feel half my face and I need some Kaidan cuddles.
So....

[Doug84]

Jhosephine wrote...

Welcome and lovely post Indeed Kaidan does deserve some respect for sticking to his principles, even though deep down I curse him for them as well. (really wanted some fluff after two years of waiting for ME2)

On a different note, just got home from the dentist, can't feel half my face and I need some Kaidan cuddles.
So....

Yeah, that part of dentists sucks - I hate that every time they do it and my face feels weird all night...

Oh god - they warned me about this before I entered the thread *takes knock out pills*

[sapphyreelf]

Kaidan cuddles are tame compared to the deviant nature most of us go towards.

[Doug84]

sapphyreelf wrote...

Kaidan cuddles are tame compared to the deviant nature most of us go towards.

*is unconscious and couldn't possibly answer, but might express the opinion of 'it starts with bare chested hugs, and from there...' Joking, of course*

[Jhourney]

Doug84 wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

Kaidan cuddles are tame compared to the deviant nature most of us go towards.

*is unconscious and couldn't possibly answer, but might express the opinion of 'it starts with bare chested hugs, and from there...' Joking, of course*

Unconscious from seeing bare chested Kaidan? Wow, don't think any of us rabid fangirls have ever displayed such adoration

[sapphyreelf]

Haha, we normally skip the bare chested hugs and just decorate the pages with shirtless Kaidan. I would recommend averting your eyes as he is bound to appear now.

[sapphyreelf]

Bah, I wish I could get my hands on a photo editor so I could change my avatar to one of my Shep.

[Jhourney]

sapphyreelf wrote...

Bah, I wish I could get my hands on a photo editor so I could change my avatar to one of my Shep.

Would be more than willing to help with that, if you need it

[Doug84]

Jhosephine wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

Kaidan cuddles are tame compared to the deviant nature most of us go towards.

*is unconscious and couldn't  possibly answer, but might express the opinion of 'it starts with bare chested hugs, and from there...' [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie] Joking, of course*

Unconscious from seeing bare chested Kaidan? Wow, don't think any of us rabid fangirls have ever displayed such adoration [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

*Is, in fact, unconscious from the knockout pills - and lack of sleep - but mostly the pills. *

*wakes up and dances - because he can*

Modifié par Doug84, 22 février 2010 - 02:52 .

[crimsonrhodelia]

Doug84 wrote...

Aviena wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

Bonjour o' men and women of the good thread Alenko - I'm from the Ashley Williams support thread, and since some of your members where kind enough to voice their support for us, I figured I'd wave the pom-poms of support here too.

Bonjour! I think Kaiden would appreciate the pom poms. They're pretty...adventurous.

... I think I need an adult!

We all know how Kaidan feels about adventurous women! 

Morning, everyone! First of all, thank you, Ash lovers, for your Kaidan support! We need to stick together! Ash and Kaidan get so much undeserved hate from some people.

Secondly, about the Conrad thing, I got that comment about my Renegadey actions from him, but somehow I cycled through the questions and without ending the conversation, he gave me a different line in that same place that did match up correctly with my Paragon response to him in ME1. Has this happened to anyone else, or am I misremembering?

Finally, Winde, you really outdid yourself with Kaidan's formal uniform. Yum! Now he has a Disney prince outfit to match his Disney prince haircut!