63501 réponses à ce sujet

[Sialater]

Collider wrote...

Great conversation here. I have to say forcing tragedy unto us is slapping the fans in the face. Although I would genuinely preferred the Alistair and Morrigan romances in DA:O to be less tragic and dark, it's more excusable in Dragon Age than it would be in Mass Effect 3. Dragon Age is a single game, and we were alerted before hand that it would be a dark fantasy game. True, Mass Effect 3 can be marketed as another dark chapter in the series, but that doesn't make up for the fact that Mass Effect is a trilogy.

How do you think people would react if at the end of Episode 6 (I think that's the last one) in Star Wars, Luke died? And Vader/Emperor continued to rule over the galaxy with an iron fist as if nothing had happened and all the rebel's struggles were for naught? You'd feel like, that was lame.

While tragedy can make for good story telling the writers and developers also have to consider taste. We've grown attached to these characters over the course of two games. Would even be worse if the ME1 romances ended badly in ME3 considering how you all had to endure ME2 without them for the large part. And tragedy is not inherently good story telling, either. And the writers can conceivably just listen to the fans and give them what we want - which is not to be punished for our love interests. They've still got a lot of room to do just that.

And ending a few of the ME2 ones in that same tragic fashion would be just as bad. 

[archonambroseus]

Collider wrote...
True, Mass Effect 3 can be marketed as another dark chapter in the series, but that doesn't make up for the fact that Mass Effect is a trilogy.

I'm pretty sure that the "second dark chapter" sound byte came from BioWare itself, which insinuates that it will follow the standard formula of first chapter = wonder and setting the scene, second chapter = things begin to go awry, third chapter = grand triumph.  Since you brought up Star Wars, the original trilogy is a perfect example of that arc.

Collider wrote...
How do you think people would react if at the end of Episode 6 (I think that's the last one) in Star Wars, Luke died? And Vader/Emperor continued to rule over the galaxy with an iron fist as if nothing had happened and all the rebel's struggles were for naught? You'd feel like, that was lame.

Um, I'm pretty sure the good guys won in every BioWare game so far.  But if you're speaking in general, then yeah... that would suck.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go hide all the staple guns in my house because every time I look at one I'm going to see crazy FemShep smiling awkwardly at me.

[fortunesque]

It's my hope that there was enough tragedy in ME2 to satisfy the writer's penchant to insert misfortune into poor Shepard's life.



It seems like lately there seem to be a lot of plots that end up with a writer saying, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if the badguy won-ish?"



Like the third Matrix movie. If I get an ending like that, I will be done with Bioware >.>

[sapphyreelf]

@BT: Right now, I'll take crazy Misery lady if it means that I get Kaidan.

[fortunesque]

sapphyreelf wrote...

@BT: Right now, I'll take crazy Misery lady if it means that I get Kaidan.

Agreed.

Ladies, get out the quilting needles!

[syllogi]

BloodyTemplar wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

BloodyTemplar wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Or!

Shep: Kaidan, I've missed you.
Kaidan: I've missed you too. Again, I'm so sorry about what I said. I'm glad you're considering having me on the SR-2
*clickclickCACHOOK*
Kaidan: OH MY GOD! YOU STAPLED MY HIP TO YOUR ABDOMEN!!!!!
Shep: And we will never part
Kaidan: I'M BLEEDING!!! YOU'RE BLEEDING!!! WE'RE BLEEDING!!!!!!!
Shep: Bleeding love out of our very hearts

You're a very disturbed individual.

Nope. Shepard is. Bioware made her do it

If Shepard didn't do it, Kaidan may get away again.

sapphy & fort:

LOL, ever seen Boxing Helena?  This is where Bioware is leading us poor, demented fangirls...

[sapphyreelf]

Fort: We can keep him in our cabin like so:

[Collider]

I assume the fascination with dark storylines and endings is an attempt to be edgy and different. It's most effective in single films not in a series IMO - or in horror storylines where you can expect that sort of thing to begin with.

Um, I'm pretty sure the good guys won in every BioWare game so far. But if you're speaking in general, then yeah... that would suck.

Yea, it's an extreme example. But was trying to relay how fans would react to something like this. Could be Luke, or could be your LI or could be Shepard.



some people have suggested an ending choice where you choose between Shepard dying or the reapers not defeated. That's also bad. I don't think anyone wants to have their Shepard have to be a selfish ass in order for them to live. By extension, no one wants to be a selfish ass for their LI to live either.



Bioware could make it like in ME2 where the success of the mission is decided by how prepared you are. You accomplish two things here - you give the majority of fans want they want - a good ending if they work for it. At the same time, you satisfy those who wanted tragic endings by allowing one if the player chooses for it.

[jillyfae]

LOL@BT (I love Kathy Bates... even when she's scary. *snickers*)



I am all scared of finishing DA:A now, but I've yet to actually play a Cousland/Alistair end up as royalty story, so apparently my ending may not be as evil? Don't answer that, I'll find out for myself, eventually.



@Collider: Yes, I think it's much more likely, considering the genre/story concepts they've been using for ME, that we'll get our happy ending in #3, unlike the 'oooh, dark!' they kept warning us about for DA. But, having our favorite character-oriented developers make a game that avoided all our favorite characters makes us nervous.

[archonambroseus]

fortunesque wrote...

It's my hope that there was enough tragedy in ME2 to satisfy the writer's penchant to insert misfortune into poor Shepard's life.

There was a good deal of misfortune (hehe, sorry) in ME2, but it always kind of seemed to me like it just happened... around me, never to me.  I mean Garrus got wrecked physically and emotionally, Jack is... Jack, Thane is dying and has family issues, Tali gest nailed by her people over a political squabble, Kelly turns into a soilent smoothie (sometimes), Jacob has the emotional/romantic aptitude of a 10-year-old, Miranda's best friend betrays her and gets shot, Samara kills her favorite daughter, and Shepard... has an argument with an old teammate.  Although I suppose getting spaced wasn't too nice of an experience.

Man, I never even realized all that until now.  Shepard is a coddled pansy compared to the rest of the team!  Also, just dawned on me how many of your squadmates have daddy issues.  Made even better by just having heard the Nathaniel/Oghren "daddy issue" conversation in DA:A.

[sapphyreelf]

Shepard only seems coddled depending on your background and psych profile. I think a Colonist/Sole Survivor has ten times the emotional baggage of any of the ME2 squadmates (not even counting the whole spaced thing and all its repercussions).

[Sialater]

sapphyreelf wrote...

Shepard only seems coddled depending on your background and psych profile. I think a Colonist/Sole Survivor has ten times the emotional baggage of any of the ME2 squadmates (not even counting the whole spaced thing and all its repercussions).

Earthborn/Sole Survivor ain't exactly the model of stability, either.


Spacer/War Hero is just too..... healthy. 

[syllogi]

fortunesque wrote...

It's my hope that there was enough tragedy in ME2 to satisfy the writer's penchant to insert misfortune into poor Shepard's life.

It seems like lately there seem to be a lot of plots that end up with a writer saying, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if the badguy won-ish?"

Like the third Matrix movie. If I get an ending like that, I will be done with Bioware >.>

My cat just jumped into my arms, purring loudly and rubbing against me.  As I started petting him, he put his mouth on my arm, not biting, but just testing...I warned him, and he stopped for a minute, but then I petted him again and CHOMP.

My cat is the physical manifestation of how I feel about Bioware right now.  

[jillyfae]

archonambroseus wrote...

There was a good deal of misfortune (hehe, sorry) in ME2, but it always kind of seemed to me like it just happened... around me, never to me.  I mean Garrus got wrecked physically and emotionally, Jack is... Jack, Thane is dying and has family issues, Tali gest nailed by her people over a political squabble, Kelly turns into a soilent smoothie (sometimes), Jacob has the emotional/romantic aptitude of a 10-year-old, Miranda's best friend betrays her and gets shot, Samara kills her favorite daughter, and Shepard... has an argument with an old teammate.  Although I suppose getting spaced wasn't too nice of an experience.

Man, I never even realized all that until now.  Shepard is a coddled pansy compared to the rest of the team!  Also, just dawned on me how many of your squadmates have daddy issues.  Made even better by just having heard the Nathaniel/Oghren "daddy issue" conversation in DA:A.

Oh, as I unlocked each loyalty mission the first time I played, I was busy thinking... "now what's your family's giant malfunction?"  (Even Tali's, which is probably my favorite, though it didn't seem like it at first... )

Oh, and per your earlier list of BioWare endings, Jade Empire can go anywhere from crazy happy rainbows and kittens to 'oh god, the blood, everyone DIES', but it's really obvious while you're doing it which one you're heading for. 

[sapphyreelf]

Sialater wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

Shepard only seems coddled depending on your background and psych profile. I think a Colonist/Sole Survivor has ten times the emotional baggage of any of the ME2 squadmates (not even counting the whole spaced thing and all its repercussions).

Earthborn/Sole Survivor ain't exactly the model of stability, either.


Spacer/War Hero is just too..... healthy. 

Yeah, but I can fix that with some unwritten emotional baggage.

[Collider]

Jacob has the emotional/romantic aptitude of a 10-year-old

LOL that doesn't quite fit the theme of everyone else. Actually...of all the squad mates, Jacob has it best. That doesn't save his romance from being largely horrible, though.

You might be able to make Shepard's life plenty horrible.

Colonist
Sole Survivor/Ruthless
Love interest died on Virmire
Fail gaining the loyalty of the squad mate you're interested in and therefore unrequited love
Fall in love with another squad mate
That squad mate dies along with everyone else but the squad mates you hate the most
Your crew dies because you took too long
Watch Kelly get turned into paste

D:

Modifié par Collider, 20 mars 2010 - 02:08 .

[jillyfae]

Sialater wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

Shepard only seems coddled depending on your background and psych profile. I think a Colonist/Sole Survivor has ten times the emotional baggage of any of the ME2 squadmates (not even counting the whole spaced thing and all its repercussions).

Earthborn/Sole Survivor ain't exactly the model of stability, either.


Spacer/War Hero is just too..... healthy. 

My favorite combinations are:

Spacer/Sole Survivor:  Happy childhood, learned the Alliance still had horrible trauma

Earthborn/War Hero:  Horrible past, but made good

Colonist/Ruthless:  Cause if I'd been on Mindoir, I'd really hate batarians too

[fortunesque]

The general background combinations I use are:

-colonist/sole survivor

-spacer/war hero

-earthborn/ruthless



The last two I found interesting, so I put them into my fanfic Shepards' backgrounds.

[syllogi]

My paragon character was Colonist/War Hero, and my ruthless character is Earthborn/Sole Survivor, but I want to make a character who's a Spacer, it would be awesome to see my Shepard's mommy again in the last game.

[archonambroseus]

Collider wrote...
You might be able to make Shepard's life plenty horrible.

Colonist
Sole Survivor/Ruthless
Love interest died on Virmire
Fail gaining the loyalty of the squad mate you're interested in and therefore unrequited love
Fall in love with another squad mate
That squad mate dies along with everyone else but the squad mates you hate the most
Your crew dies because you took too long
Watch Kelly get turned into paste

D:

Hahaha, very true.  And of course you can have Shep kick it at the end of all that too, after watching the whole team being gunned down.

[redshift87]

Jhosephine wrote...

Wanted to grab dinner and when I got up and looked at my screen, all zoomed in while in Photoshop, I just went..."Oh."

Thought I would share what I saw *chuckles and goes to have dinner*

I'm constantly amazed by the talent of some of the posters in this thread. Do the other love threads have such talent? I doubt it. Is BioWare growing increasingly scared of The Fangirls? Undoubtedly 

Modifié par redshift87, 20 mars 2010 - 02:15 .

[sapphyreelf]

My cannon Shep is Spacer / War Hero, but the whole background story of her pre-ME1 gives her reason to be emotionally awkward and distant at times.

[Sialater]

Paragon is Adept Colonist/War Hero/Kaidan girl.



Paragrade is Vanguard Earthborn/Sole Survivor

[Collider]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/1811663
Something that might be of interest - having to do with tragic endings.
Also considering writing a poll for it.

[fortunesque]

I posted in your thread, but I'm not sure what else I could say that you didn't say. Everything that you listed worries the bejeesus out of me