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[Doug84]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Actually I believe the only "love scene" if you can even call it that, that has any length or detail to it at all is Miranda's. I mean, they made a whole new model for her for that scene alone!

That made me think. Did Bioware make more of an effort with Miranda because they expected her to be the most interesting LI? And if so, that would mean...judging from the 'lovescenes' femsheps get in ME2....that Bioware expected us to go for Jacob?
Oh my...

:lol::lol:If that's the case they have lost touch with the female audience. I would say that it was because Miranda and Jacob held the protagonist roles in ME2 that Kaidan and Ash held in ME but that really doesn't hold water since Liara's was longer in ME.

I still think Thane was meant to be the primary LI for ME2's lady warriors. He even has an expiration date for easily removal when Kaidan shows up again

EDIT: Also:

"Shepard, why are you and Kaid-" 
"Spectre business, honest!"
"....right...how does Spectre business involve you, Kaidan, and a pair of pinky lined
handicuffs?"
".....erm.....its classified..."
"Ok...." -slowly backs out of the room-

Modifié par Doug84, 23 février 2010 - 08:23 .

[Mrs Templar]

crimsonrhodelia wrote...

Someone mentioned the later seasons of Lost in the context of the ME2 vs the ME1 characters, many pages ago; I never got to respond to that, but I just want to say that Jacob and Miranda are the Nikki and Paulo of Mass Effect. Well, I don't mind Miranda, really, but...

I wonder if the folks at Bioware are like the writers for Lost.  Had good/strong ideas for the beginning and ending of the story, but the middle was a little hazy.  I keep holding out hope for ME3. *crosses fingers*

[Nhani]

Doug84 wrote...
"Shepard, why are you and Kaid-" 
"Spectre business, honest!"
"....right...how
does Spectre business involve you, Kaidan, and a pair of pinky lined
handicuffs?"
".....erm.....its classified..."
"Ok...." -slowly
backs out of the room-

Seeing how I saw you use exactly the same dialogue exchange regarding Ash in the Ashley thread, I shall now accuse you of having pulled a BioWare!

Modifié par Nhani, 23 février 2010 - 08:24 .

[Doug84]

Nhani wrote...

Doug84 wrote...
"Shepard, why are you and Kaid-" 
"Spectre business, honest!"
"....right...how does Spectre business involve you, Kaidan, and a pair of pinky lined
handicuffs?"
".....erm.....its classified..."
"Ok...." -slowly backs out of the room-

Seeing how I saw you use exactly the same dialogue exchange regarding Ash in the Ashley thread, I shall now accuse you of having pulled a BioWare!

MWhahahahaaha, indeedie - but it works so well for both of them. And begs the question - who is wearing the handicuffs?

[Jhourney]

Doug84 wrote...

I still think Thane was meant to be the primary LI for ME2's lady warriors. He even has an expiration date for easily removal when Kaidan shows up again

Thane was designed for us women yes, but his romance compared to Jacob's seems to be lacking in detail. Even when viewing the rejection vids, Jacob seems to be much more bothered than Thane. (in a :sick:way) Further more besides the angst, Thane's lovescene is basically just a kiss....where there's much more going on in Jacobs. Heck you can kiss Jacob when you continue the game after it ended I believe, unless the scene I saw was cut.
Jacob's role in the game is also a lot bigger, often acting as your second in command in cutscenes too.
Just a feeling I got but if it is true, they must have written his romance while being drunk, half asleep and giggley, because it makes no sense to me

"No no, wait...*giggle*...here...add this...PRIIIZZEE...haha..yeah, that's funny...let's do that *gigglesnort*"

Modifié par Jhosephine, 23 février 2010 - 08:35 .

[Funkcase]

Jhosephine wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

I still think Thane was meant to be the primary LI for ME2's lady warriors. He even has an expiration date for easily removal when Kaidan shows up again

Thane was designed for us women yes, but his romance compared to Jacob's seems to be lacking in detail. Even when viewing the rejection vids, Jacob seems to be much more bothered than Thane. (in a :sick:way) Further more besides the angst, Thane's lovescene is basically just a kiss....where there's much more going on in Jacobs. Heck you can kiss Jacob when you continue the game after it ended I believe, unless the scene I saw was cut.
Jacob's role in the game is also a lot bigger, often acting as your second in command in cutscenes too.
Just a feeling I got but if it is true, they must have written his romance while being drunk, half asleep and giggley, because it makes no sense to me

"No no, wait...*giggle*...here...add this...PRIIIZZEE...haha..yeah, that's funny...let's do that *gigglesnort*"

I too noticed he seemed like he was secound in command, Miranda realy aint doing her job right lol.

[Jhourney]

Btw, the society's numbers sure are flying up today...moren than 240 yay!

[Jhourney]

Funkcase wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

I still think Thane was meant to be the primary LI for ME2's lady warriors. He even has an expiration date for easily removal when Kaidan shows up again

Thane was designed for us women yes, but his romance compared to Jacob's seems to be lacking in detail. Even when viewing the rejection vids, Jacob seems to be much more bothered than Thane. (in a :sick:way) Further more besides the angst, Thane's lovescene is basically just a kiss....where there's much more going on in Jacobs. Heck you can kiss Jacob when you continue the game after it ended I believe, unless the scene I saw was cut.
Jacob's role in the game is also a lot bigger, often acting as your second in command in cutscenes too.
Just a feeling I got but if it is true, they must have written his romance while being drunk, half asleep and giggley, because it makes no sense to me

"No no, wait...*giggle*...here...add this...PRIIIZZEE...haha..yeah, that's funny...let's do that *gigglesnort*"

I too noticed he seemed like he was secound in command, Miranda realy aint doing her job right lol.

She was probably too busy in the engine room at the times Jacob stepped in, after all she is an engineer....oh wait...

[Doug84]

Jhosephine wrote...

Funkcase wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

I still think Thane was meant to be the primary LI for ME2's lady warriors. He even has an expiration date for easily removal when Kaidan shows up again

Thane was designed for us women yes, but his romance compared to Jacob's seems to be lacking in detail. Even when viewing the rejection vids, Jacob seems to be much more bothered than Thane. (in a :sick:way) Further more besides the angst, Thane's lovescene is basically just a kiss....where there's much more going on in Jacobs. Heck you can kiss Jacob when you continue the game after it ended I believe, unless the scene I saw was cut.
Jacob's role in the game is also a lot bigger, often acting as your second in command in cutscenes too.
Just a feeling I got but if it is true, they must have written his romance while being drunk, half asleep and giggley, because it makes no sense to me

"No no, wait...*giggle*...here...add this...PRIIIZZEE...haha..yeah, that's funny...let's do that *gigglesnort*"

I too noticed he seemed like he was secound in command, Miranda realy aint doing her job right lol.

She was probably too busy in the engine room at the times Jacob stepped in, after all she is an engineer....oh wait...

Yes... I had to wonder at the sex scene with Miranda... though controls do NOT look like they should be pushed randomly...

And having the start of sex on one is unlikely to be safe to the smooth operation of the ship...:innocent:

Joker: "Commander, we've lost power and propulsion; EDI says someone in Engineering has sabotaged the controls!"
Shep: "Erm, yes...Me and Miranda will investigate so...yeah, thats why we'll be down there..."

[Star]

anmiro wrote...

Between Ashley and Liara, I always went with Liara in ME1. Being her Commanding officer I always thought it was pretty unprofessional to form an intimate relationship with her. Same goes for Kaiden if your a femShep.

But I always save Kaiden over Ashley. There is really no right answer to who you should save, but I always saw Kaiden as being the bigger loss. Hes an officer and a biotic. Ashley is enlisted and just a basic soldier. I also thought Kaiden had a lot more in common with the Paragon Shepard.

I have no problem with Kaiden not trusting Shepard when they meet on Horizon. Personally, I wouldn't have trusted Shepard either and still hate that we are forced to work with Cerberus in this game, but that is besides the point. What I don't like is how all the conversations feel if your not a FemShep. Every conversation regarding Kaiden in ME2 seems to hint that we may have shared a bed together. I'm sure I sound like a total homophobe right now, but I really thought this did an injustice to their friendship. Unlike meeting Wrex or Garrus, which gave a great sense of camaraderie, the reunion with Kaiden and the conversation about him with both Kelly and Joker both just felt awkward.

Did anyone feel this way or am I just a crazy homopobe?

Everyone else must be in a much earlier time zone!  I always come in to about 8 pages to catch up with!

@ anmiro - I think your comments really highlight what lots of folks have been talking about in various threads, namely the fact that Bioware didn't seem to focus much on character and just made Kaidan/Ash relatively interchangeable probalby to save $$$. I would really like to see this change for ME3 myself; no more generic convos! Allow Kaiden/Ash to go back to being characters with differences again.

Modifié par Star58, 23 février 2010 - 08:57 .

[sesheta255]

Morning everyone, I finally manage to get more than 2 hours sleep & wake up to 10 pages I have to catch up on, lol. Ok my take on things :



Kaidan & the doctor - I think that drinks with the doctor was a recent thing & hasn't progressed any further. His friends probably convinced him that it had been 2 years and he needed to take an interest in something other than work. Maybe there were plans to see her again next time he was on the Citadel but I think they would be shelved once he knew Shep was alive again The fact that he mentions the night before Ilos in his email means that it is on his mind and I see him as just having started to try & move on but now he's back where he was 2 years ago. Can't say I blame him for his reaction on Horizon, I just wish it had been handled better from Shep's side of things.



Horizon & Sheploo - being in the middle of my renegade Sheploo playthrough I was a bit taken aback by Kaidan's reaction to Shep. All comes down to lazy writing & too many new characters to put resources into.



ME3 - hoping that we get Kaidan into our squad early on in the game. I actually wouldn't like Kaidan as a spectre, I take this as something unique & special about Shep. I also don't want a dual death scene, sacrificing themselves to save the galaxy - I want my happy ending damn it.



Jacob "romance" - not sure what was sleazier - the yes or no ending to the romance scene. I hate that the writers/directors totally changed Shep's personality & character in terms of any of her interactions with Jacob. (more so than wiith Garrus or Thane).



As a parting note - I found it a bit strange in the opening cutscene that when Shep tells Kaidan to go he calls her commander, thought he would have called her Shepard (not sure what Ash says if she didn't get virmired). Only noticed because Liara say Shepard - may be just because she's not a marine though.



Ok thats my 2 cents worth.

[Doug84]

sesheta255 wrote...

ME3 - hoping that we get Kaidan into our squad early on in the game. I actually wouldn't like Kaidan as a spectre, I take this as something unique & special about Shep. I also don't want a dual death scene, sacrificing themselves to save the galaxy - I want my happy ending damn it.

Well, I never suggested that the "LI or the galaxy" idea - in fact, I just assumed people would give BW more credit than that  

[Jhourney]

sesheta255 wrote...
ME3 - hoping that we get Kaidan into our squad early on in the game. I actually wouldn't like Kaidan as a spectre, I take this as something unique & special about Shep. I also don't want a dual death scene, sacrificing themselves to save the galaxy - I want my happy ending damn it.

Agreed.

[Eshaye]

Jhosephine wrote...

sesheta255 wrote...
ME3 - hoping that we get Kaidan into our squad early on in the game. I actually wouldn't like Kaidan as a spectre, I take this as something unique & special about Shep. I also don't want a dual death scene, sacrificing themselves to save the galaxy - I want my happy ending damn it.

Agreed.

Yes please!! Just watched the finale of Dollhouse and cried...  The whole show wasn't fair, and the ending isn't any more fair either. I'm also reading a fantasy series where a couple never gets to be together, yet, and it's annoying as all hell, I'm hoping by the fourth book they'll break down the walls but it won't come out until next year, maybe. ME is putting us in a similar bind.. lol It's like writers have a thing for impossible relationships and sad endings at the moment. 

Modifié par Eshaye, 23 février 2010 - 09:15 .

[Star]

Eshaye wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

sesheta255 wrote...
ME3 - hoping that we get Kaidan into our squad early on in the game. I actually wouldn't like Kaidan as a spectre, I take this as something unique & special about Shep. I also don't want a dual death scene, sacrificing themselves to save the galaxy - I want my happy ending damn it.

Agreed.

Yes please!! Just watched the finale of Dollhouse and cried...  The whole show wasn't fair, and the ending isn't any more fair either. I'm also reading a fantasy series where a couple never gets to be together, yet, and it's annoying as all hell, I'm hoping by the fourth book they'll break down the walls but it won't come out until next year, maybe. ME is putting us in a similar bind.. lol It's like writers have a thing for impossible relationships and sad endings at the moment. 

I'm pretty tired of the penchant for romantic angst with no resolution too.  I remember several years ago there was a fantansy series by Katherine Kurtz whose characters never seemed to have happiness in their lives; bleah. Couldn't read it.  And I was just about at the breaking point when Janny Wurz  finally got her two lovers together after something like 5 books at 800+ pages each!    Don't know if writers think this is edgy, that happy endings are too cliche or too Mary Sue or what/   All I know is that I'm starting to feel that these darker stories are becoming really cliche/faddish based on the shear numbers of them lately and I'd like to become immersed in something a little happier right now.

[syllogi]

Eshaye wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

sesheta255 wrote...
ME3 - hoping that we get Kaidan into our squad early on in the game. I actually wouldn't like Kaidan as a spectre, I take this as something unique & special about Shep. I also don't want a dual death scene, sacrificing themselves to save the galaxy - I want my happy ending damn it.

Agreed.

Yes please!! Just watched the finale of Dollhouse and cried...  The whole show wasn't fair, and the ending isn't any more fair either. I'm also reading a fantasy series where a couple never gets to be together, yet, and it's annoying as all hell, I'm hoping by the fourth book they'll break down the walls but it won't come out until next year, maybe. ME is putting us in a similar bind.. lol It's like writers have a thing for impossible relationships and sad endings at the moment. 

Argh, no kidding, I'm at the point now where I don't want to watch anymore Joss Whedon shows, because it's inevitable that whatever characters I like will DIE, the moment they fall in love or are happy for more than three seconds.  You can have a compelling story without making everything dire and tragic all the time.

And as far as books, I'm reading several series that are ongoing, but those can be heartbreaking too, it's just safer sometimes to read series that are already done.

I do feel hopeful that ME3 can have a happy ending for Shepard, because they're following the standard trilogy formula, and the last part of the trilogy means a happy ending for the hero, dammit!!!  And my happy ending includes Kaidan and no sacrifices.

[Joisan]

*Pokes her head back in* Hi! Good god, class was exhausting. But I guess dancing will do that to you.

[sesheta255]

Just had a couple or horrendous & terrifying thoughts while driving lazy teen to school :



1. What if Shep didn't die when the Normandy was attacked but the events of ME2 were all a dream/nightmare and weren't real (sort of like Booths thing in Bones when he had the brain op). God I'd hate & dispise BW forever lol.



2. Your character is really Conrad Verner having a dream/fantasy or playing an rpg. LMAO in a strange kind of way.



My mind is acting really strange today obviously, must be what getting some sleep does to it.

[Lisa_H]

TeenZombie wrote...

I do feel hopeful that ME3 can have a happy ending for Shepard, because they're following the standard trilogy formula, and the last part of the trilogy means a happy ending for the hero, dammit!!!  And my happy ending includes Kaidan and no sacrifices.

I also have hopes that ME3 will give us a happy ending because of the trilogy formula. I think one of the devs said once that in the first part of a trilogy you put someone in a tree. In the second part you throw rocks at him, and in the third part you take him down again. I think that implies a happy ending. At least I hope

[syllogi]

sesheta255 wrote...

Just had a couple or horrendous & terrifying thoughts while driving lazy teen to school :

1. What if Shep didn't die when the Normandy was attacked but the events of ME2 were all a dream/nightmare and weren't real (sort of like Booths thing in Bones when he had the brain op). God I'd hate & dispise BW forever lol.

2. Your character is really Conrad Verner having a dream/fantasy or playing an rpg. LMAO in a strange kind of way.

My mind is acting really strange today obviously, must be what getting some sleep does to it.

Okay, #1 would be awful, BUT...at least Shepard would not have worked for Cerberus and had the fight with Kaidan, and a crazy dream would explain all the plot holes!

#2 is just...nooooooooooo.  I know the writers can do better than that.  Although the outrage on the forums about this would be hilarious.

[Eshaye]

sesheta255 wrote...

Just had a couple or horrendous & terrifying thoughts while driving lazy teen to school :

1. What if Shep didn't die when the Normandy was attacked but the events of ME2 were all a dream/nightmare and weren't real (sort of like Booths thing in Bones when he had the brain op). God I'd hate & dispise BW forever lol.

2. Your character is really Conrad Verner having a dream/fantasy or playing an rpg. LMAO in a strange kind of way.

My mind is acting really strange today obviously, must be what getting some sleep does to it.

Oh sheesh, if that happens I'm taking the next bus to Edmonton and egging BioWare HQ, I swears! 

[Nhani]

Lisa_H wrote...
I also have hopes that ME3 will give us a happy ending because of the trilogy formula. I think one of the devs said once that in the first part of a trilogy you put someone in a tree. In the second part you throw rocks at him, and in the third part you take him down again. I think that implies a happy ending. At least I hope

I agree; it would seem really out of format for Mass Effect to have all paths lead to unending angst. I mean okay, I wasn't entirely happy with how how Dragon Age: Origins ended (damn you, Alistair!) but I'll admit it was an appropriate ending for that narrative seeing how Dragon Age: Origins was very much about sacrifice - becoming a Gray warden, the way you kill Arch Demons, everything.

Mass Effect.. isn't about that - it strikes me much more as a narrative about overcoming, about beating the odds. Just take the origins - in the Blitz, Shepard faced overwhelming odds and prevailed. On Akuze she faced something that should've killed or in the least scarred her and she got better. Throughout Mass Effect 1 (and with Shepard's personal story through Mass Effect 2) it feels to me like one of the main elements is and remains "Bad things happened, but I got over it."

I'd be very surprised - and disappointed, I think - if Mass Effect 3 doesn't have a at least one good ending; it doesn't have to be fairy-tale, but I really can't see it as the Dragon Age "We sacrificed all to win" kind of ending - with what the narrative says, with what the Spectres are about compared to Gray Wardens and everything.. I expect a triumphant "Reapers came, we should've lost, but we won anyway." sort of thing.

[The Angry One]

TeenZombie wrote...

Okay, #1 would be awful, BUT...at least Shepard would not have worked for Cerberus and had the fight with Kaidan, and a crazy dream would explain all the plot holes!

But then you find out reality is even worse, as Shepard has been promoted to Admiral in charge of the Podunk Nowhere sector, and Kaidan married Khalisah Bin Sinan Al-Jilani.

[RyrineaNara]

The Angry One wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Okay, #1 would be awful, BUT...at least Shepard would not have worked for Cerberus and had the fight with Kaidan, and a crazy dream would explain all the plot holes!

But then you find out reality is even worse, as Shepard has been promoted to Admiral in charge of the Podunk Nowhere sector, and Kaidan married Khalisah Bin Sinan Al-Jilani.

Who? That would be worse! 

[Joisan]

Okay. Links to fanfic have been duly posted and I finally got the formatting fixed to my satisfaction. Must be dinner time.