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[Nhani]

The Angry One wrote...
and Kaidan married Khalisah Bin Sinan Al-Jilani. 

"Shepard? Khalisah Bin Sina~"
"I've had enough of your disingenuous romancing. *PUNT!*"
"What're you doing?!"
"You a favor, Kaidan. Trust me."

[Daewan]

TeenZombie wrote...
(snipped)
Argh, no kidding, I'm at the point now where I don't want to watch anymore Joss Whedon shows, because it's inevitable that whatever characters I like will DIE, the moment they fall in love or are happy for more than three seconds.  You can have a compelling story without making everything dire and tragic all the time.
(snipped again)

Okay, name a compelling story where nothing dire and tragic happens.  If it didn't happen when they were happy or in love, it wouldn't be tragic!

Humans (this includes you, unless you're secretly a sentient bagel) like tragedy.  We like it because it gives us something to overcome.  We like hearing/reading about it because we identify with the struggle more than the result.  From the first humans huddled around a fire, the stories told were about great battles and dangerous hunts.  This is why newspapers have disasters on the front page, and one column for human interest stories.

Everyone knows Romeo and Juliet even though most people haven't read it.  It's why most date movies are tearjerkers.

[ekkaja.marta]

I'm sure ME3 will have some pretty heroic happy ending, because as far as the two parts we have are concerned you are a hero who always gets the job done. I love when Garrus says that he almost fells sorry for the reapers Although it would be fun if you could fail the mission like you can in ME2 and watch all life in the galaxy being wiped out.

But I can't imagine Shepard doing the final fighting all alone again, without her trusted team and Kaidan. That would be just strange if they didn't follow her at the end.

[RyrineaNara]

Joisan wrote...

Okay. Links to fanfic have been duly posted and I finally got the formatting fixed to my satisfaction. Must be dinner time.

I love your writing Joisan it was very emotional. 

[sapphyreelf]

I am torturing myself today it seems. Migraine went away courtesy of meds, just in time for me to get to Horizon with my renegade femShep. So, can I please have some smexy Kaidan pics?

[Doug84]

sapphyreelf wrote...

I am torturing myself today it seems. Migraine went away courtesy of meds, just in time for me to get to Horizon with my renegade femShep. So, can I please have some smexy Kaidan pics?

*grumbles* Fine, I'll engage in the posting of Kaidan pics.



Now if you'll excuse me, I need to do something manly before the guys recall my equipment.

[Sialater]

Doug84 wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

I am torturing myself today it seems. Migraine went away courtesy of meds, just in time for me to get to Horizon with my renegade femShep. So, can I please have some smexy Kaidan pics?

*grumbles* Fine, I'll engage in the posting of Kaidan pics.



Now if you'll excuse me, I need to do something manly before the guys recall my equipment.

Your sacrifice is duly noted, ol' chap.  ~lightly punches arm~

[Doug84]

Joisan wrote...

Okay. Links to fanfic have been duly posted and I finally got the formatting fixed to my satisfaction. Must be dinner time.

Ok, I've read most of the story, and I have to say I like it alot! You do the emotional side of things very well, I find, and handle the romance side of things well - definitely an area I find hard to do, so definite thumbs up from me. Can send an idea or two if you want feedback, but I reckon you'll be fine regardless

[chem light]

Daewan wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
(snipped)
Argh, no kidding, I'm at the point now where I don't want to watch anymore Joss Whedon shows, because it's inevitable that whatever characters I like will DIE, the moment they fall in love or are happy for more than three seconds.  You can have a compelling story without making everything dire and tragic all the time.
(snipped again)

Okay, name a compelling story where nothing dire and tragic happens.  If it didn't happen when they were happy or in love, it wouldn't be tragic!

Humans (this includes you, unless you're secretly a sentient bagel) like tragedy.  We like it because it gives us something to overcome.  We like hearing/reading about it because we identify with the struggle more than the result.  From the first humans huddled around a fire, the stories told were about great battles and dangerous hunts.  This is why newspapers have disasters on the front page, and one column for human interest stories.

Everyone knows Romeo and Juliet even though most people haven't read it.  It's why most date movies are tearjerkers.

Humans love CONFLICT, not TRAGEDY.   Yeah, a story where nothing ever goes wrong and there's nothing to do but sit around be awesome would be boring.  Just like if all food tasted like chocolate chip cookies, they wouldn't be awesome anymore.  That's why I believe God invented things like lima beans. Ughhh...

Yeah, we want a compelling story, but that doesn't preclude a happy ending. 

I swear if Kaidan dies after saving everyone in the middle of saying, "I am a leaf on the wind..."

I will have an anuerism .

Modifié par chem light, 23 février 2010 - 11:19 .

[cpolisch]

Doug84 wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

I am torturing myself today it seems. Migraine went away courtesy of meds, just in time for me to get to Horizon with my renegade femShep. So, can I please have some smexy Kaidan pics?

*grumbles* Fine, I'll engage in the posting of Kaidan pics.



Now if you'll excuse me, I need to do something manly before the guys recall my equipment.

Aw, such a noble guy - *distracted*

Kaidannnnn...

[Doug84]

Sialater wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

I am torturing myself today it seems. Migraine went away courtesy of meds, just in time for me to get to Horizon with my renegade femShep. So, can I please have some smexy Kaidan pics?

*grumbles* Fine, I'll engage in the posting of Kaidan pics.



Now if you'll excuse me, I need to do something manly before the guys recall my equipment.

Your sacrifice is duly noted, ol' chap.  ~lightly punches arm~

Indeed * ponders what the female equivent of light arm punching is *

*pops in a monocle and sips on some brandy whilst trying to avoid being noticed by the league of gentleman (in charge of equipment)*

[Sialater]

chem light wrote...

Daewan wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
(snipped)
Argh, no kidding, I'm at the point now where I don't want to watch anymore Joss Whedon shows, because it's inevitable that whatever characters I like will DIE, the moment they fall in love or are happy for more than three seconds.  You can have a compelling story without making everything dire and tragic all the time.
(snipped again)

Okay, name a compelling story where nothing dire and tragic happens.  If it didn't happen when they were happy or in love, it wouldn't be tragic!

Humans (this includes you, unless you're secretly a sentient bagel) like tragedy.  We like it because it gives us something to overcome.  We like hearing/reading about it because we identify with the struggle more than the result.  From the first humans huddled around a fire, the stories told were about great battles and dangerous hunts.  This is why newspapers have disasters on the front page, and one column for human interest stories.

Everyone knows Romeo and Juliet even though most people haven't read it.  It's why most date movies are tearjerkers.

Humans love CONFLICT, not TRAGEDY.   Yeah, a story where nothing ever goes wrong and there's nothing to do but sit around be awesome would be boring.  Just like if all food tasted like chocolate chip cookies, they wouldn't be awesome anymore.  That's why I believe God invented things like lima beans. Ughhh...

Yeah, we want a compelling story, but that doesn't preclude a happy ending. 

I swear if Kaidan dies after saving everyone in the middle of saying, "I am a leaf on the wind..."

I will have an anuerism .

You and me both.  And I'll join whoever it was that wanted to egg the Bioware HQ.  And maybe set an effigy of Whedon on fire in the parking lot to make the point.


OK, just kidding.   But still!  I will be VERY PUT OUT!

[fortunesque]

Wow. This grew by over 10 pages while I was gone?



*thumbs up*

[Sialater]

Doug84 wrote...

Indeed * ponders what the female equivent of light arm punching is *

*pops in a monocle and sips on some brandy whilst trying to avoid being noticed by the league of gentleman (in charge of equipment)*

Meaning I won't hit you as hard as I can.   I thought about the "sports butt slapping", but decided I didn't know you well enough.

[sapphyreelf]

Doug84 wrote...

sapphyreelf wrote...

I am torturing myself today it seems. Migraine went away courtesy of meds, just in time for me to get to Horizon with my renegade femShep. So, can I please have some smexy Kaidan pics?

*grumbles* Fine, I'll engage in the posting of Kaidan pics.



Now if you'll excuse me, I need to do something manly before the guys recall my equipment.

Your secret is safe with me!
Smexy Kaidan time.

[Doug84]

Sialater wrote...

chem light wrote...

Daewan wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
(snipped)
Argh, no kidding, I'm at the point now where I don't want to watch anymore Joss Whedon shows, because it's inevitable that whatever characters I like will DIE, the moment they fall in love or are happy for more than three seconds.  You can have a compelling story without making everything dire and tragic all the time.
(snipped again)

Okay, name a compelling story where nothing dire and tragic happens.  If it didn't happen when they were happy or in love, it wouldn't be tragic!

Humans (this includes you, unless you're secretly a sentient bagel) like tragedy.  We like it because it gives us something to overcome.  We like hearing/reading about it because we identify with the struggle more than the result.  From the first humans huddled around a fire, the stories told were about great battles and dangerous hunts.  This is why newspapers have disasters on the front page, and one column for human interest stories.

Everyone knows Romeo and Juliet even though most people haven't read it.  It's why most date movies are tearjerkers.

Humans love CONFLICT, not TRAGEDY.   Yeah, a story where nothing ever goes wrong and there's nothing to do but sit around be awesome would be boring.  Just like if all food tasted like chocolate chip cookies, they wouldn't be awesome anymore.  That's why I believe God invented things like lima beans. Ughhh...

Yeah, we want a compelling story, but that doesn't preclude a happy ending. 

I swear if Kaidan dies after saving everyone in the middle of saying, "I am a leaf on the wind..."

I will have an anuerism .

You and me both.  And I'll join whoever it was that wanted to egg the Bioware HQ.  And maybe set an effigy of Whedon on fire in the parking lot to make the point.


OK, just kidding.   But still!  I will be VERY PUT OUT!

I honestly loved "Dr Horribles Sing Along blog" by Joss Whelon, even with its tragedic end. But I've no interest in seeing Dollhouse after reading the outline of the show - to me, the idea of body-switching mind controlled meat puppets scares the ever loving hell out of me on a level I don't like.

That said, tragedy and conflict are, really, essiental parts of our fictional literature. Personally, I massively prefer conflict to tragedy, but conflict always means tragedy for someone somewhere - even if it is the big baddy who no one likes

Without tragedy, it would cheapen the happy endings, because we would know for certain all happy endings where sure - there would be no antipayion because we would know that no matter how great the odds, the happy ending was certain.

Its sort of like the old campy 70's Batman - it was always certain that Batman and Robin would escape whatever trap they where in last episode because of Batman's infinitely big utility belt. There was no risk of failure, and no 'reward' to victory because it was a certain bet.

[Doug84]

Sialater wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

Indeed * ponders what the female equivent of light arm punching is *

*pops in a monocle and sips on some brandy whilst trying to avoid being noticed by the league of gentleman (in charge of equipment)*

Meaning I won't hit you as hard as I can.   I thought about the "sports butt slapping", but decided I didn't know you well enough.

Oh I know, but women don't do that, so I was trying to work out what the equivent was - a hug seems too personal and perhaps alittle creepy; a handshake is too formal and distance. Its a protocol problem!

[WhoKnew]

*shuffles in quietly*
Hellooo! Long-time lurker crawling out from under a rock here. The light...it burnss.

Perhaps Khalisah Bin Sinan Al-Jilani will learn by ME3 that Renagade Shepard has flying fists o' fury.
And woah-ho. I think that picture just took a few years off my lifespan.  

[fortunesque]

Jack thinks my Shepard is gay for her, which is false.

She is wanted as an icecream eating companion

[Joisan]

RyrineaNara wrote...

Joisan wrote...

Okay. Links to fanfic have been duly posted and I finally got the formatting fixed to my satisfaction. Must be dinner time.

I love your writing Joisan it was very emotional. 

Doug84 wrote...
Ok, I've read most of the story, and I have to say I like it alot! You do the emotional side of things very well, I find, and handle the romance side of things well - definitely an area I find hard to do, so definite thumbs up from me. Can send an idea or two if you want feedback, but I reckon you'll be fine regardless

Aww thanks.  Yeah, I find emotion much easier to write than action!  Doug, I'd love to hear any feedback you have; constructive suggestions are vital to improving a writer's craft.

[chem light]

Doug84 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

chem light wrote...

Daewan wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
(snipped)
Argh, no kidding, I'm at the point now where I don't want to watch anymore Joss Whedon shows, because it's inevitable that whatever characters I like will DIE, the moment they fall in love or are happy for more than three seconds.  You can have a compelling story without making everything dire and tragic all the time.
(snipped again)

Okay, name a compelling story where nothing dire and tragic happens.  If it didn't happen when they were happy or in love, it wouldn't be tragic!

Humans (this includes you, unless you're secretly a sentient bagel) like tragedy.  We like it because it gives us something to overcome.  We like hearing/reading about it because we identify with the struggle more than the result.  From the first humans huddled around a fire, the stories told were about great battles and dangerous hunts.  This is why newspapers have disasters on the front page, and one column for human interest stories.

Everyone knows Romeo and Juliet even though most people haven't read it.  It's why most date movies are tearjerkers.

Humans love CONFLICT, not TRAGEDY.   Yeah, a story where nothing ever goes wrong and there's nothing to do but sit around be awesome would be boring.  Just like if all food tasted like chocolate chip cookies, they wouldn't be awesome anymore.  That's why I believe God invented things like lima beans. Ughhh...

Yeah, we want a compelling story, but that doesn't preclude a happy ending. 

I swear if Kaidan dies after saving everyone in the middle of saying, "I am a leaf on the wind..."

I will have an anuerism .

You and me both.  And I'll join whoever it was that wanted to egg the Bioware HQ.  And maybe set an effigy of Whedon on fire in the parking lot to make the point.


OK, just kidding.   But still!  I will be VERY PUT OUT!

I honestly loved "Dr Horribles Sing Along blog" by Joss Whelon, even with its tragedic end. But I've no interest in seeing Dollhouse after reading the outline of the show - to me, the idea of body-switching mind controlled meat puppets scares the ever loving hell out of me on a level I don't like.

That said, tragedy and conflict are, really, essiental parts of our fictional literature. Personally, I massively prefer conflict to tragedy, but conflict always means tragedy for someone somewhere - even if it is the big baddy who no one likes

Without tragedy, it would cheapen the happy endings, because we would know for certain all happy endings where sure - there would be no antipayion because we would know that no matter how great the odds, the happy ending was certain.

Its sort of like the old campy 70's Batman - it was always certain that Batman and Robin would escape whatever trap they where in last episode because of Batman's infinitely big utility belt. There was no risk of failure, and no 'reward' to victory because it was a certain bet.

I don't think a happy ending cheapens anythng.  And I think it's important that we examine WHY it is people want a tragic ending.  Why?  Because I think out ledgends, myths, and stories passed down speak more to our values even than our history.  Rather than portraying the sad truth as it was, it portrays the world as we think it should be.

And conflict doesn't always mean tragedy.  Were we to engage in a space race to Mars right now, whatever the country that got there first, it would be great for humanity.  The technology researched and applied to get there, the mere fact that it was proven that it could be done.  (Plus in a totally random tangent the human race could not be wiped out by a single planetary disaster which was a reoccuring childhood fear of mine.  Strange.  I know.)

Anyhow,  I want cake. I want to eat it too, preferably by licking the icing off Kaidan.  

Modifié par chem light, 23 février 2010 - 11:41 .

[sapphyreelf]

Joisan wrote...

RyrineaNara wrote...

Joisan wrote...

Okay. Links to fanfic have been duly posted and I finally got the formatting fixed to my satisfaction. Must be dinner time.

I love your writing Joisan it was very emotional. 

Doug84 wrote...
Ok, I've read most of the story, and I have to say I like it alot! You do the emotional side of things very well, I find, and handle the romance side of things well - definitely an area I find hard to do, so definite thumbs up from me. Can send an idea or two if you want feedback, but I reckon you'll be fine regardless

Aww thanks.  Yeah, I find emotion much easier to write than action!  Doug, I'd love to hear any feedback you have; constructive suggestions are vital to improving a writer's craft.

It was a very sweet read Joisan.

[Joisan]

sapphyreelf wrote...

It was a very sweet read Joisan.

You guys are making me blush!  Where's a blushing emoticon when I need one?

[Doug84]

chem light wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

I honestly loved "Dr Horribles Sing Along blog" by Joss Whelon, even with its tragedic end. But I've no interest in seeing Dollhouse after reading the outline of the show - to me, the idea of body-switching mind controlled meat puppets scares the ever loving hell out of me on a level I don't like.

That said, tragedy and conflict are, really, essiental parts of our fictional literature. Personally, I massively prefer conflict to tragedy, but conflict always means tragedy for someone somewhere - even if it is the big baddy who no one likes

Without tragedy, it would cheapen the happy endings, because we would know for certain all happy endings where sure - there would be no antipayion because we would know that no matter how great the odds, the happy ending was certain.

Its sort of like the old campy 70's Batman - it was always certain that Batman and Robin would escape whatever trap they where in last episode because of Batman's infinitely big utility belt. There was no risk of failure, and no 'reward' to victory because it was a certain bet.

I don't think a happy ending cheapons anythng.  And I think it's important that we examine WHY it is people want a tragic ending.  Why?  Because I think out ledgends, myths, and stories passed down speak more to our values even than our history.  Rather than portraying the sad truth as it was, it portrays the world as we think it should be.

And conflict doesn't always mean tragedy.  Were we to engage in a space race to Mars right now, whatever the country that got there first, it would be great for humanity.  The technology researched and applied to get there, the mere fact that it was proven that it could be done.  (Plus in a totally random tangent the human race could not be wiped out by a single planetary disaster which was a reoccuring childhood fear of mine.  Strange.  I know.)

Anyhow,  I want cake. I want to eat, preferably the icing off Kaidan.  

No, no, I'm not saying Happy Endings cheapen anything.

I'm saying an absolutely CERTAIN happy ending no matter what cheapens the happy ending itself.

If the Hero isn't at risk, why is his quest heroic?

If the Task is definitely possibly, why is it heroic?

We need some tragedy in our culture somewhere or else we are effectively saying 'Happy endings are certain, you don't really need to work for them'.

As for your example re:Mars - I think we should look back to the race to land on the moon. The result was a big win for the USA, but to the Russians it was a slap to the face - their technology had been shown to be inferior, and their enemy had shown themselves capable of that technological feat. And in the context of the cold war, space faring ability was often overlapped with missile technology for several reasons.