137512 réponses à ce sujet

[Jake71887]

1490 wrote...


Anaphylactic shock is actually kind of incorrect term because that implies an allergic reaction from an overactive immune system response.  Anaphylaxis is the movement of blood away from the organs into the periphery that creates a "distributive shock" of the brain, as well as swelling of the bronchioles from inflammation that prevents breathing.  Tali injecting foreign "Shep matter" would be just straight "toxicity", that her blood would fill with toxic foreign compounds that would collect in her brain and other vital organs and cause tissue damage.

Anyway, nobody probably thinks about this stuff but me, so it's probably irrelevant, lol

Actually, anaphylactic shock is a result of Vasodilation, which itself has a few different causes... one of them being yes an overreactive immune system response, but not exclusive. The toxins may negatively affect her blood vessels int his way, before her body has had time to filter them out... 

[cannedcream]

Jesus, please-us. It's 4 AM again.



I hate to leave during such an amazing conversation, but I really do need to go.



Look, I know I've only been here a week and don't pull the same weight as some of the vets do, but I still want to say that this is one of the BEST forums I've ever been a part of: good people, interesting conversations, and a lot of kindness and understanding between members. It's rare to see anything this good last this long on the internet.

That's why I hate to see it when we start getting short-tempered with one another. Now, I know no one is really fighting and everyone is trying to keep a cool head about voicing their thoughts while respecting everyone else's, but I just hope everyone knows that no one here is really trying to be mean or insulting. At least, I don't think so. I never got the impression that anyone here was really a bad person.

I don't know what it's like to be bisexual or homosexual and I'll never claim to understand the stigma that can go with being one, but what I do understand is that we are all here because for one reason or another we have become deeply interested in one character. Even though we know she is not real, we like to talk about her and treat her as if she was. We all want to present her in a way that somehow represents our own feelings and beliefs and it can be hard when one's views rub another the wrong way.

I just hope that, at the end of it all when the dust settles and the air clears, that we understand that no one is really trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but only to express our own personal thoughts.



Anyway, sorry about rambling on there. I just wanted to say that.

You're all awesome and I love talking with you guys and gals as well as reading your conversations. It's a great way to end the day.



Keelah Se'lai, everyone.



Until tomorrow.

[Angelraid]

madisk wrote...


We're all partly conditioned by our upbringing. Tali's an intelligent individual, with intelligence usually comes open-mindedness and a willing to explore the unknown. I can't find a convincing reason why to think she couldn't develop romantic feelings towards a female.

I'm straight but I can't say I've never been bi-curious. It's partly due to my personality but I'm confident that it's largely due to my upbringing.

I just have to say, that I am intelligent open minded individual but I have never had the slightest urge to explore "that unkown". I respect peoples wishes who want to go that way but I surely don't wanna go that route w/ anyone no matter how great they may be.

Sexuallity isn't something you choose. You don't just talk to someone and be like. Oh this persons really nice, I think i'll become a homosexual so i can be with them.

[herbie dog]

Keelah Se'lai cannedcream

[cutthecameras]

cannedcream wrote...

Jesus, please-us. It's 4 AM again.

I hate to leave during such an amazing conversation, but I really do need to go.

Look, I know I've only been here a week and don't pull the same weight as some of the vets do, but I still want to say that this is one of the BEST forums I've ever been a part of: good people, interesting conversations, and a lot of kindness and understanding between members. It's rare to see anything this good last this long on the internet.
That's why I hate to see it when we start getting short-tempered with one another. Now, I know no one is really fighting and everyone is trying to keep a cool head about voicing their thoughts while respecting everyone else's, but I just hope everyone knows that no one here is really trying to be mean or insulting. At least, I don't think so. I never got the impression that anyone here was really a bad person.
I don't know what it's like to be bisexual or homosexual and I'll never claim to understand the stigma that can go with being one, but what I do understand is that we are all here because for one reason or another we have become deeply interested in one character. Even though we know she is not real, we like to talk about her and treat her as if she was. We all want to present her in a way that somehow represents our own feelings and beliefs and it can be hard when one's views rub another the wrong way.
I just hope that, at the end of it all when the dust settles and the air clears, that we understand that no one is really trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but only to express our own personal thoughts.

Anyway, sorry about rambling on there. I just wanted to say that.
You're all awesome and I love talking with you guys and gals as well as reading your conversations. It's a great way to end the day.

Keelah Se'lai, everyone.

Until tomorrow.

Thanks for that...
Keelah Se'Lai :happy:

[1490]

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...


Anaphylactic shock is actually kind of incorrect term because that implies an allergic reaction from an overactive immune system response.  Anaphylaxis is the movement of blood away from the organs into the periphery that creates a "distributive shock" of the brain, as well as swelling of the bronchioles from inflammation that prevents breathing.  Tali injecting foreign "Shep matter" would be just straight "toxicity", that her blood would fill with toxic foreign compounds that would collect in her brain and other vital organs and cause tissue damage.

Anyway, nobody probably thinks about this stuff but me, so it's probably irrelevant, lol

Actually, anaphylactic shock is a result of Vasodilation, which itself has a few different causes... one of them being yes an overreactive immune system response, but not exclusive. The toxins may negatively affect her blood vessels int his way, before her body has had time to filter them out... 

Yeah, vasodilation causes distributive shock because blood fills the dilated peripheral vessels and stops perfusing the vital organs.  Now, it is true that toxins could cause distributive shock, there are a lot of deadly chemcials that do that in humans.  However, anaphylactic shock usually means an allergic, immune-mediated response that triggers the vasodilation, not a direct effect of a chemical, which would be the case in toxic ingestion.

[MacGruber1986]

cannedcream wrote...

Jesus, please-us. It's 4 AM again.

I hate to leave during such an amazing conversation, but I really do need to go.

Look, I know I've only been here a week and don't pull the same weight as some of the vets do, but I still want to say that this is one of the BEST forums I've ever been a part of: good people, interesting conversations, and a lot of kindness and understanding between members. It's rare to see anything this good last this long on the internet.
.

Yeah, everyone here seems nice, I just have trouble keeping up with the rapid fire discussions. I so far just post randomly, since I just started posting this week. I wouldn't like to see everyone fall into arguments over any issue though. Spread the love everyone, and all that.

[1490]

antilles333 wrote...

Well, said cannedcream. Goodnight!

Indeed, very well said!

Keelah Se'lai

[Angelraid]

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...


Anaphylactic shock is actually kind of incorrect term because that implies an allergic reaction from an overactive immune system response.  Anaphylaxis is the movement of blood away from the organs into the periphery that creates a "distributive shock" of the brain, as well as swelling of the bronchioles from inflammation that prevents breathing.  Tali injecting foreign "Shep matter" would be just straight "toxicity", that her blood would fill with toxic foreign compounds that would collect in her brain and other vital organs and cause tissue damage.

Anyway, nobody probably thinks about this stuff but me, so it's probably irrelevant, lol

Actually, anaphylactic shock is a result of Vasodilation, which itself has a few different causes... one of them being yes an overreactive immune system response, but not exclusive. The toxins may negatively affect her blood vessels int his way, before her body has had time to filter them out... 

Nothing says that it has to be toxic. If every little thing was poisonous then no one would be able to walk around. Some food/substances from the different species may be poisonous but not neccisarilly. Biologically speaking such a reaction would be pretty rare. In the ME univurse though seems that Bioware decided it was a little more common but think about this. If the toxic effect were that great turans/quarians wouldnt even be able to stand in the same room w/ other races cuase every time they breath they would be inhaling thousands upon thousands of skin particles. Yummy. Maybe Tali could take it, Maybe she couldn't. We'll never know unless Mordin does a in depth moleculer annalysis. Or Bio gives us the answer.

[Goat_Shepard]

cannedcream wrote...

Jesus, please-us. It's 4 AM again.

I hate to leave during such an amazing conversation, but I really do need to go.

Look, I know I've only been here a week and don't pull the same weight as some of the vets do, but I still want to say that this is one of the BEST forums I've ever been a part of: good people, interesting conversations, and a lot of kindness and understanding between members. It's rare to see anything this good last this long on the internet.
That's why I hate to see it when we start getting short-tempered with one another. Now, I know no one is really fighting and everyone is trying to keep a cool head about voicing their thoughts while respecting everyone else's, but I just hope everyone knows that no one here is really trying to be mean or insulting. At least, I don't think so. I never got the impression that anyone here was really a bad person.
I don't know what it's like to be bisexual or homosexual and I'll never claim to understand the stigma that can go with being one, but what I do understand is that we are all here because for one reason or another we have become deeply interested in one character. Even though we know she is not real, we like to talk about her and treat her as if she was. We all want to present her in a way that somehow represents our own feelings and beliefs and it can be hard when one's views rub another the wrong way.
I just hope that, at the end of it all when the dust settles and the air clears, that we understand that no one is really trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but only to express our own personal thoughts.

Anyway, sorry about rambling on there. I just wanted to say that.
You're all awesome and I love talking with you guys and gals as well as reading your conversations. It's a great way to end the day.

Keelah Se'lai, everyone.

Until tomorrow.

I agree. I've only been here (relatively active) like 2 days and I already know these are some of the more intelligent fans in gaming and more intelligent fans-of-a-specific-character as well. This Quarian/Geth technobabble is mind-boggling, I will read all those ME books some day.

[Angelraid]

1490 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...


Anaphylactic shock is actually kind of incorrect term because that implies an allergic reaction from an overactive immune system response.  Anaphylaxis is the movement of blood away from the organs into the periphery that creates a "distributive shock" of the brain, as well as swelling of the bronchioles from inflammation that prevents breathing.  Tali injecting foreign "Shep matter" would be just straight "toxicity", that her blood would fill with toxic foreign compounds that would collect in her brain and other vital organs and cause tissue damage.

Anyway, nobody probably thinks about this stuff but me, so it's probably irrelevant, lol

Actually, anaphylactic shock is a result of Vasodilation, which itself has a few different causes... one of them being yes an overreactive immune system response, but not exclusive. The toxins may negatively affect her blood vessels int his way, before her body has had time to filter them out... 

Yeah, vasodilation causes distributive shock because blood fills the dilated peripheral vessels and stops perfusing the vital organs.  Now, it is true that toxins could cause distributive shock, there are a lot of deadly chemcials that do that in humans.  However, anaphylactic shock usually means an allergic, immune-mediated response that triggers the vasodilation, not a direct effect of a chemical, which would be the case in toxic ingestion.

Also it clearly states in ME1 codex that it may cuase death or it may do nothing, or anything in between. It may cuase euphoria for all we know.

[1490]

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...


Anaphylactic shock is actually kind of incorrect term because that implies an allergic reaction from an overactive immune system response.  Anaphylaxis is the movement of blood away from the organs into the periphery that creates a "distributive shock" of the brain, as well as swelling of the bronchioles from inflammation that prevents breathing.  Tali injecting foreign "Shep matter" would be just straight "toxicity", that her blood would fill with toxic foreign compounds that would collect in her brain and other vital organs and cause tissue damage.

Anyway, nobody probably thinks about this stuff but me, so it's probably irrelevant, lol

Actually, anaphylactic shock is a result of Vasodilation, which itself has a few different causes... one of them being yes an overreactive immune system response, but not exclusive. The toxins may negatively affect her blood vessels int his way, before her body has had time to filter them out... 

Nothing says that it has to be toxic. If every little thing was poisonous then no one would be able to walk around. Some food/substances from the different species may be poisonous but not neccisarilly. Biologically speaking such a reaction would be pretty rare. In the ME univurse though seems that Bioware decided it was a little more common but think about this. If the toxic effect were that great turans/quarians wouldnt even be able to stand in the same room w/ other races cuase every time they breath they would be inhaling thousands upon thousands of skin particles. Yummy. Maybe Tali could take it, Maybe she couldn't. We'll never know unless Mordin does a in depth moleculer annalysis. Or Bio gives us the answer.

I think what would make Sheps cells toxic in this case is that because they are an entirely different protein construction, she would not have the enzymes to break them down and filter them out of her blood.  In that case, the compounds would just float around her body and buildup, creating problems in places like capillaries where filtration of nutrients is a very sensitive balance and depends on the concentration of chemicals in the blood.  

Or, Shep's proteins could improperly bind to her proteins to create unwanted effects, like the vasodilation we are talking about or cell fluid-shift that could make her swell up and lose blood volume from her vessels.

[Jake71887]

1490 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...


Anaphylactic shock is actually kind of incorrect term because that implies an allergic reaction from an overactive immune system response.  Anaphylaxis is the movement of blood away from the organs into the periphery that creates a "distributive shock" of the brain, as well as swelling of the bronchioles from inflammation that prevents breathing.  Tali injecting foreign "Shep matter" would be just straight "toxicity", that her blood would fill with toxic foreign compounds that would collect in her brain and other vital organs and cause tissue damage.

Anyway, nobody probably thinks about this stuff but me, so it's probably irrelevant, lol

Actually, anaphylactic shock is a result of Vasodilation, which itself has a few different causes... one of them being yes an overreactive immune system response, but not exclusive. The toxins may negatively affect her blood vessels int his way, before her body has had time to filter them out... 

Yeah, vasodilation causes distributive shock because blood fills the dilated peripheral vessels and stops perfusing the vital organs.  Now, it is true that toxins could cause distributive shock, there are a lot of deadly chemcials that do that in humans.  However, anaphylactic shock usually means an allergic, immune-mediated response that triggers the vasodilation, not a direct effect of a chemical, which would be the case in toxic ingestion.

Is it out of the realm of possibility that a toxic presence could cause vasodilation and subsequently anaphylactic shock.. Either by provoking tissues directly, or even stimulating the immune system in such a way?

[madisk]

Collider wrote...
Try telling lesbian and bisexual women and men that stereotypes exist because they are true. TRY THAT. You won't get a good response.

It shouldn't matter who I'm asking that, but just to make sure I'm not insulting I asked my lesbian roommate. She didn't take offense.

Stereotypes exist for a reason. These "stereotypes" did not come out of thin air. They came from the cultural moras, and there will be exceptions for every rule. Please don't confuse this with being prejudice. I am just stating facts as I have observed and witnessed them in my life. To immediately judge the person infront of you with the criteria and ideas instilled in you from the past is natural but caution should be noted. We're not all the same. Each person needs to be assessed on their own individual merit.

Collider wrote...That still does not mean anything. Plenty of people have experimented with their sexuality and have found that they are not bisexual, straight, or homosexual. Tali can't even experiment with it.

I'm not trying to advocate that it implies she's bisexual, homosexual or anything. I'm just saying that there's plenty of room for speculation and nothing in the game so far rules out the possibility and plausibility of femshep-Tali romance in ME3.

Collider wrote...No one is saying that she CAN'T be bisexual. But to say that she is more or less likely to be bisexual is pure bull****. This is a fictional society.

Did I say likely? A poor choice of words on my part. Nothing in the game completely rules out the possibility of her having biosexual tendencies. Thus making it possible that she does. [speculation]There was romance dialogue for femshep/tali which means that at some point BW clearly considered including it in ME2. I'm assuming they cut it because they thought it'd be too early. Just like male shep romance with Tali had to wait until ME2, it might be that they're including it in ME3 to give the "unorthodox" relationship time to develop.[/speculation]

Modifié par madisk, 04 mars 2010 - 10:52 .

[herbie dog]

antilles333 wrote...

I'd be posting more, but my ailment has stricken me to just reading and lurking more than normal..

same here mate!

[Jakegnosis]

Alright, you crazy kids. I have exams to study for tomorrow, so I have to leave you, as much as it pains me to do so. I'm pretty sure a lot of you know where I stand on this current issue, so jus pretend I'm posting, 'kay?



Much love, you beautiful bastards. Keelah Se'Lai.

[herbie dog]

Jakegnosis wrote...

Alright, you crazy kids. I have exams to study for tomorrow, so I have to leave you, as much as it pains me to do so. I'm pretty sure a lot of you know where I stand on this current issue, so jus pretend I'm posting, 'kay?

Much love, you beautiful bastards. Keelah Se'Lai.

Keelah Se'Lai.

[1490]

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...


Anaphylactic shock is actually kind of incorrect term because that implies an allergic reaction from an overactive immune system response.  Anaphylaxis is the movement of blood away from the organs into the periphery that creates a "distributive shock" of the brain, as well as swelling of the bronchioles from inflammation that prevents breathing.  Tali injecting foreign "Shep matter" would be just straight "toxicity", that her blood would fill with toxic foreign compounds that would collect in her brain and other vital organs and cause tissue damage.

Anyway, nobody probably thinks about this stuff but me, so it's probably irrelevant, lol

Actually, anaphylactic shock is a result of Vasodilation, which itself has a few different causes... one of them being yes an overreactive immune system response, but not exclusive. The toxins may negatively affect her blood vessels int his way, before her body has had time to filter them out... 

Yeah, vasodilation causes distributive shock because blood fills the dilated peripheral vessels and stops perfusing the vital organs.  Now, it is true that toxins could cause distributive shock, there are a lot of deadly chemcials that do that in humans.  However, anaphylactic shock usually means an allergic, immune-mediated response that triggers the vasodilation, not a direct effect of a chemical, which would be the case in toxic ingestion.

Is it out of the realm of possibility that a toxic presence could cause vasodilation and subsequently anaphylactic shock.. Either by provoking tissues directly, or even stimulating the immune system in such a way?

Oh no, it's definitely possible.  Her immune system could still react to the chemicals and cause anaphylaxis, I just think it would be less likely than her getting a toxic buildup of the compounds in the liver and CNS instead since her immune system is bad and an anaphylactic reaction is less-likely that it would be in a human.

[Lareit]

1490 wrote...



I think what would make Sheps cells toxic in this case is that because they are an entirely different protein construction, she would not have the enzymes to break them down and filter them out of her blood.  In that case, the compounds would just float around her body and buildup, creating problems in places like capillaries where filtration of nutrients is a very sensitive balance and depends on the concentration of chemicals in the blood.  

Or, Shep's proteins could improperly bind to her proteins to create unwanted effects, like the vasodilation we are talking about or cell fluid-shift that could make her swell up and lose blood volume from her vessels.

They don't enter the bloodstream unless they get digested. If they just pass through her system, as would be the most common scenario, she would just excreate it out later.

I think people jump the gun about the Dex/Lev based thing too much.

Yes it COULD kill her, but honestly such situations are rare. It's more a "why risk it" situation compared to a "dead if you touch it" one.

You could cook her a five course meal. She could eat all of it and be completely fine.

Or she could take a single bite of a sandwich and die.

[cutthecameras]

madisk wrote...
lesbian roommate

I'm sure your post is fascinating but I stopped reading here.

I want a lesbian roommate too 

[madisk]

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

madisk wrote...


We're all partly conditioned by our upbringing. Tali's an intelligent individual, with intelligence usually comes open-mindedness and a willing to explore the unknown. I can't find a convincing reason why to think she couldn't develop romantic feelings towards a female.

I'm straight but I can't say I've never been bi-curious. It's partly due to my personality but I'm confident that it's largely due to my upbringing.

I just have to say, that I am intelligent open minded individual but I have never had the slightest urge to explore "that unkown". I respect peoples wishes who want to go that way but I surely don't wanna go that route w/ anyone no matter how great they may be.

Sexuallity isn't something you choose. You don't just talk to someone and be like. Oh this persons really nice, I think i'll become a homosexual so i can be with them.

I wasn't trying to imply that being open minded would mean you're most definitely going to be bi-curious. I'm just pointing out possible reasons why people might consider something that's still largely considered as "unnatural" in our society.

[Angelraid]

1490 wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...


Anaphylactic shock is actually kind of incorrect term because that implies an allergic reaction from an overactive immune system response.  Anaphylaxis is the movement of blood away from the organs into the periphery that creates a "distributive shock" of the brain, as well as swelling of the bronchioles from inflammation that prevents breathing.  Tali injecting foreign "Shep matter" would be just straight "toxicity", that her blood would fill with toxic foreign compounds that would collect in her brain and other vital organs and cause tissue damage.

Anyway, nobody probably thinks about this stuff but me, so it's probably irrelevant, lol

Actually, anaphylactic shock is a result of Vasodilation, which itself has a few different causes... one of them being yes an overreactive immune system response, but not exclusive. The toxins may negatively affect her blood vessels int his way, before her body has had time to filter them out... 

Nothing says that it has to be toxic. If every little thing was poisonous then no one would be able to walk around. Some food/substances from the different species may be poisonous but not neccisarilly. Biologically speaking such a reaction would be pretty rare. In the ME univurse though seems that Bioware decided it was a little more common but think about this. If the toxic effect were that great turans/quarians wouldnt even be able to stand in the same room w/ other races cuase every time they breath they would be inhaling thousands upon thousands of skin particles. Yummy. Maybe Tali could take it, Maybe she couldn't. We'll never know unless Mordin does a in depth moleculer annalysis. Or Bio gives us the answer.

I think what would make Sheps cells toxic in this case is that because they are an entirely different protein construction, she would not have the enzymes to break them down and filter them out of her blood.  In that case, the compounds would just float around her body and buildup, creating problems in places like capillaries where filtration of nutrients is a very sensitive balance and depends on the concentration of chemicals in the blood.  

Or, Shep's proteins could improperly bind to her proteins to create unwanted effects, like the vasodilation we are talking about or cell fluid-shift that could make her swell up and lose blood volume from her vessels.

Actually if she couldn't digest them then they would most likely just be crapped out as is. Ever eaten corn. Dietary Fiber Much:?

Also protiens dont have a tendency to just bind to things, they are pretty inert. As for lock/key mechs not really alot of those going onin the stomack/intestines where everything is getting broken down or if not just passesed straight through. The problem would only occur if they were broken down and some of the peices effected certain bind sites in other parts of the body after absorbtion. And then effects would vary based on what/where/and how much if anything happened at all.

[Jake71887]

1490 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...


Anaphylactic shock is actually kind of incorrect term because that implies an allergic reaction from an overactive immune system response.  Anaphylaxis is the movement of blood away from the organs into the periphery that creates a "distributive shock" of the brain, as well as swelling of the bronchioles from inflammation that prevents breathing.  Tali injecting foreign "Shep matter" would be just straight "toxicity", that her blood would fill with toxic foreign compounds that would collect in her brain and other vital organs and cause tissue damage.

Anyway, nobody probably thinks about this stuff but me, so it's probably irrelevant, lol

Actually, anaphylactic shock is a result of Vasodilation, which itself has a few different causes... one of them being yes an overreactive immune system response, but not exclusive. The toxins may negatively affect her blood vessels int his way, before her body has had time to filter them out... 

Yeah, vasodilation causes distributive shock because blood fills the dilated peripheral vessels and stops perfusing the vital organs.  Now, it is true that toxins could cause distributive shock, there are a lot of deadly chemcials that do that in humans.  However, anaphylactic shock usually means an allergic, immune-mediated response that triggers the vasodilation, not a direct effect of a chemical, which would be the case in toxic ingestion.

Is it out of the realm of possibility that a toxic presence could cause vasodilation and subsequently anaphylactic shock.. Either by provoking tissues directly, or even stimulating the immune system in such a way?

Oh no, it's definitely possible.  Her immune system could still react to the chemicals and cause anaphylaxis, I just think it would be less likely than her getting a toxic buildup of the compounds in the liver and CNS instead since her immune system is bad and an anaphylactic reaction is less-likely that it would be in a human.

Well, differing organ in an alien being aside... I'm curious if the very fact her immune system is so weak, could be part of why she'd go into shock... Certainly an overreaction of her immune system might be unlikely considering it's weakened state.. But since her body isn't used to so much an active immune system, couldn't the sudden prodding of even a lesser one sort of shock her body... As far as I know, bodies don't generally react well to sudden and violent changes it hasn't seen before.