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[1490]

Lareit wrote...

1490 wrote...



I think what would make Sheps cells toxic in this case is that because they are an entirely different protein construction, she would not have the enzymes to break them down and filter them out of her blood.  In that case, the compounds would just float around her body and buildup, creating problems in places like capillaries where filtration of nutrients is a very sensitive balance and depends on the concentration of chemicals in the blood.  

Or, Shep's proteins could improperly bind to her proteins to create unwanted effects, like the vasodilation we are talking about or cell fluid-shift that could make her swell up and lose blood volume from her vessels.

They don't enter the bloodstream unless they get digested. If they just pass through her system, as would be the most common scenario, she would just excreate it out later.

I think people jump the gun about the Dex/Lev based thing too much.

Yes it COULD kill her, but honestly such situations are rare. It's more a "why risk it" situation compared to a "dead if you touch it" one.

You could cook her a five course meal. She could eat all of it and be completely fine.

Or she could take a single bite of a sandwich and die.

Well, virtually everything you eat, good and bad, is absorbed in the intestine into the bloodstream.  However, all the veins from the GI system empty into the liver first, so the liver has a chance to filter it before it goes anywhere else.  Therefore, the liver would be one of the most likely places for her to become toxic because the chemicals would build up there, the next most likely place would be the brain because as her hepatic portal vein blocked off, the toxic blood would be pushed up back to her head.  

I just spent three days writing a paper about this, lol

[Jake71887]

cutthecameras wrote...

madisk wrote...
lesbian roommate

I'm sure your post is fascinating but I stopped reading here.

I want a lesbian roommate too 

I'll take one bi and one lesbian please! 

It'll be like a dirty version of three's company. 

[cutthecameras]

Jake71887 wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

madisk wrote...
lesbian roommate

I'm sure your post is fascinating but I stopped reading here.

I want a lesbian roommate too 

I'll take one bi and one lesbian please! 

It'll be like a dirty version of three's company. 

As soon as I realized I made a hornball comment I knew you'd add something to it. 

[1490]

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...


Anaphylactic shock is actually kind of incorrect term because that implies an allergic reaction from an overactive immune system response.  Anaphylaxis is the movement of blood away from the organs into the periphery that creates a "distributive shock" of the brain, as well as swelling of the bronchioles from inflammation that prevents breathing.  Tali injecting foreign "Shep matter" would be just straight "toxicity", that her blood would fill with toxic foreign compounds that would collect in her brain and other vital organs and cause tissue damage.

Anyway, nobody probably thinks about this stuff but me, so it's probably irrelevant, lol

Actually, anaphylactic shock is a result of Vasodilation, which itself has a few different causes... one of them being yes an overreactive immune system response, but not exclusive. The toxins may negatively affect her blood vessels int his way, before her body has had time to filter them out... 

Yeah, vasodilation causes distributive shock because blood fills the dilated peripheral vessels and stops perfusing the vital organs.  Now, it is true that toxins could cause distributive shock, there are a lot of deadly chemcials that do that in humans.  However, anaphylactic shock usually means an allergic, immune-mediated response that triggers the vasodilation, not a direct effect of a chemical, which would be the case in toxic ingestion.

Is it out of the realm of possibility that a toxic presence could cause vasodilation and subsequently anaphylactic shock.. Either by provoking tissues directly, or even stimulating the immune system in such a way?

Oh no, it's definitely possible.  Her immune system could still react to the chemicals and cause anaphylaxis, I just think it would be less likely than her getting a toxic buildup of the compounds in the liver and CNS instead since her immune system is bad and an anaphylactic reaction is less-likely that it would be in a human.

Well, differing organ in an alien being aside... I'm curious if the very fact her immune system is so weak, could be part of why she'd go into shock... Certainly an overreaction of her immune system might be unlikely considering it's weakened state.. But since her body isn't used to so much an active immune system, couldn't the sudden prodding of even a lesser one sort of shock her body... As far as I know, bodies don't generally react well to sudden and violent changes it hasn't seen before. 

In a type 1 reaction, which is what anaphylaxis is, your immune system is actually the thing that hurts you.  Just like getting stung by a bee won't kill most people, but it will kill a few because of anaphylaxis.  Your immune system needs to be powerful enough to "shut you down", so to speak, so if it really sucked, like "almost nonexistent" like they say in the game, it wouldn't be as likely to happen as it would in a human.  But yes, it could still happen if she still has some amount of an immune system left.

[Jake71887]

cutthecameras wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

madisk wrote...
lesbian roommate

I'm sure your post is fascinating but I stopped reading here.

I want a lesbian roommate too 

I'll take one bi and one lesbian please! 

It'll be like a dirty version of three's company. 

As soon as I realized I made a hornball comment I knew you'd add something to it. 

I like being predictable, makes it easy to meet people's expectations! 

[Angelraid]

madisk wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

madisk wrote...


We're all partly conditioned by our upbringing. Tali's an intelligent individual, with intelligence usually comes open-mindedness and a willing to explore the unknown. I can't find a convincing reason why to think she couldn't develop romantic feelings towards a female.

I'm straight but I can't say I've never been bi-curious. It's partly due to my personality but I'm confident that it's largely due to my upbringing.

I just have to say, that I am intelligent open minded individual but I have never had the slightest urge to explore "that unkown". I respect peoples wishes who want to go that way but I surely don't wanna go that route w/ anyone no matter how great they may be.

Sexuallity isn't something you choose. You don't just talk to someone and be like. Oh this persons really nice, I think i'll become a homosexual so i can be with them.

I wasn't trying to imply that being open minded would mean you're most definitely going to be bi-curious. I'm just pointing out possible reasons why people might consider something that's still largely considered as "unnatural" in our society.

Not trying to butthurt anyone here but it is unnatural. It's just a numbers thing. In Nature hetero is the trend. Probly becuase ****** doesn't produce viable offspring choices and is thus not a good thing for reproduction.

If your talking about "unnatural" the way religions use it. thats just cuase thier pissed that you rejected thier reality and inserted your own. Thus refused to be there little followers.

[Jake71887]

1490 wrote...
In a type 1 reaction, which is what anaphylaxis is, your immune system is actually the thing that hurts you.  Just like getting stung by a bee won't kill most people, but it will kill a few because of anaphylaxis.  Your immune system needs to be powerful enough to "shut you down", so to speak, so if it really sucked, like "almost nonexistent" like they say in the game, it wouldn't be as likely to happen as it would in a human.  But yes, it could still happen if she still has some amount of an immune system left.

Tali's a fighter, I'm sure she does... She better have! 

[Lareit]

1490 wrote...

Lareit wrote...

1490 wrote...



I think what would make Sheps cells toxic in this case is that because they are an entirely different protein construction, she would not have the enzymes to break them down and filter them out of her blood.  In that case, the compounds would just float around her body and buildup, creating problems in places like capillaries where filtration of nutrients is a very sensitive balance and depends on the concentration of chemicals in the blood.  

Or, Shep's proteins could improperly bind to her proteins to create unwanted effects, like the vasodilation we are talking about or cell fluid-shift that could make her swell up and lose blood volume from her vessels.

They don't enter the bloodstream unless they get digested. If they just pass through her system, as would be the most common scenario, she would just excreate it out later.

I think people jump the gun about the Dex/Lev based thing too much.

Yes it COULD kill her, but honestly such situations are rare. It's more a "why risk it" situation compared to a "dead if you touch it" one.

You could cook her a five course meal. She could eat all of it and be completely fine.

Or she could take a single bite of a sandwich and die.

Well, virtually everything you eat, good and bad, is absorbed in the intestine into the bloodstream.  However, all the veins from the GI system empty into the liver first, so the liver has a chance to filter it before it goes anywhere else.  Therefore, the liver would be one of the most likely places for her to become toxic because the chemicals would build up there, the next most likely place would be the brain because as her hepatic portal vein blocked off, the toxic blood would be pushed up back to her head.  

I just spent three days writing a paper about this, lol

It's funny. I knew this, but not untill I was reading it here.

Amazing how all that school knowledge way back when goes completely lost untill someone helps make it familiar.

What a waste school was.

[herbie dog]

/uploads_user/1471000/1470935/20290.jpg
Could we all get back to Tali pls?

[Jake71887]

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...
Not trying to butthurt anyone here but it is unnatural. It's just a numbers thing. In Nature hetero is the trend. Probly becuase ****** doesn't produce viable offspring choices and is thus not a good thing for reproduction.

If your talking about "unnatural" the way religions use it. thats just cuase thier pissed that you rejected thier reality and inserted your own. Thus refused to be there little followers.

Not many things in a human life is natural. Such is the cost of sentience I'm afraid 

[Jake71887]

herbie dog wrote...


Could we all get back to Tali pls?

Both discussions are about Tali... Wake up man! 

[1490]

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...
In a type 1 reaction, which is what anaphylaxis is, your immune system is actually the thing that hurts you.  Just like getting stung by a bee won't kill most people, but it will kill a few because of anaphylaxis.  Your immune system needs to be powerful enough to "shut you down", so to speak, so if it really sucked, like "almost nonexistent" like they say in the game, it wouldn't be as likely to happen as it would in a human.  But yes, it could still happen if she still has some amount of an immune system left.

Tali's a fighter, I'm sure she does... She better have! 

Well in the case of anaphylactic shock, it might actually be worse for her to have one! lol

[Jake71887]

1490 wrote...

Well in the case of anaphylactic shock, it might actually be worse for her to have one! lol

Why do you have to ruin my hopes and dreams? 

[herbie dog]

Jake71887 wrote...

herbie dog wrote...


Could we all get back to Tali pls?

Both discussions are about Tali... Wake up man! 

I know!!
I meant lets stop talking about science!

[madisk]

cutthecameras wrote...

madisk wrote...
lesbian roommate

I'm sure your post is fascinating but I stopped reading here.

I want a lesbian roommate too 

We've been living together for some 3 years now and trough her I've made more lesbian friends than I have straight female friends.

[1490]

Lareit wrote...

1490 wrote...

Lareit wrote...

1490 wrote...



I think what would make Sheps cells toxic in this case is that because they are an entirely different protein construction, she would not have the enzymes to break them down and filter them out of her blood.  In that case, the compounds would just float around her body and buildup, creating problems in places like capillaries where filtration of nutrients is a very sensitive balance and depends on the concentration of chemicals in the blood.  

Or, Shep's proteins could improperly bind to her proteins to create unwanted effects, like the vasodilation we are talking about or cell fluid-shift that could make her swell up and lose blood volume from her vessels.

They don't enter the bloodstream unless they get digested. If they just pass through her system, as would be the most common scenario, she would just excreate it out later.

I think people jump the gun about the Dex/Lev based thing too much.

Yes it COULD kill her, but honestly such situations are rare. It's more a "why risk it" situation compared to a "dead if you touch it" one.

You could cook her a five course meal. She could eat all of it and be completely fine.

Or she could take a single bite of a sandwich and die.

Well, virtually everything you eat, good and bad, is absorbed in the intestine into the bloodstream.  However, all the veins from the GI system empty into the liver first, so the liver has a chance to filter it before it goes anywhere else.  Therefore, the liver would be one of the most likely places for her to become toxic because the chemicals would build up there, the next most likely place would be the brain because as her hepatic portal vein blocked off, the toxic blood would be pushed up back to her head.  

I just spent three days writing a paper about this, lol

It's funny. I knew this, but not untill I was reading it here.

Amazing how all that school knowledge way back when goes completely lost untill someone helps make it familiar.

What a waste school was.

I'm just glad I can use the stuff I learned for something fun, since I know my instructor will probably "glance" at the 30+ page paper I wrote on portal hypertension system and then throw it away.  At least my three nights of no sleep and hard labor can help Tali!

[Angelraid]

1490 wrote...

Lareit wrote...

1490 wrote...



I think what would make Sheps cells toxic in this case is that because they are an entirely different protein construction, she would not have the enzymes to break them down and filter them out of her blood.  In that case, the compounds would just float around her body and buildup, creating problems in places like capillaries where filtration of nutrients is a very sensitive balance and depends on the concentration of chemicals in the blood.  

Or, Shep's proteins could improperly bind to her proteins to create unwanted effects, like the vasodilation we are talking about or cell fluid-shift that could make her swell up and lose blood volume from her vessels.

They don't enter the bloodstream unless they get digested. If they just pass through her system, as would be the most common scenario, she would just excreate it out later.

I think people jump the gun about the Dex/Lev based thing too much.

Yes it COULD kill her, but honestly such situations are rare. It's more a "why risk it" situation compared to a "dead if you touch it" one.

You could cook her a five course meal. She could eat all of it and be completely fine.

Or she could take a single bite of a sandwich and die.

Well, virtually everything you eat, good and bad, is absorbed in the intestine into the bloodstream.  However, all the veins from the GI system empty into the liver first, so the liver has a chance to filter it before it goes anywhere else.  Therefore, the liver would be one of the most likely places for her to become toxic because the chemicals would build up there, the next most likely place would be the brain because as her hepatic portal vein blocked off, the toxic blood would be pushed up back to her head.  

I just spent three days writing a paper about this, lol

Misleading statement. Virtually everything you eat, good or bad is absorbed cuase you are conditioned to only eat "edible" things. If you just went around eating a bunch of random **** there would be notably less absorbtion. For example grass and bark. Grass is actually really hard to digest even for animals that eat it normally. Cows have to eat it like 5 times to get it to digest. cuase its just that hard to break down.

[cutthecameras]

Jake71887 wrote...

herbie dog wrote...


Could we all get back to Tali pls?

Both discussions are about Tali... Wake up man! 

lmao

he's just used to having to usher us all back into topic. its like a reflex

Modifié par cutthecameras, 04 mars 2010 - 11:06 .

[herbie dog]

cutthecameras wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

herbie dog wrote...


Could we all get back to Tali pls?

Both discussions are about Tali... Wake up man! 

lmao

he's just used to having to usher us all back into topic. 

[1490]

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...

Well in the case of anaphylactic shock, it might actually be worse for her to have one! lol

Why do you have to ruin my hopes and dreams? 

Shep should just commission Mordin to "make" Tali an immune system.  I mean, if they can make molecular-level cybernetic implants for Shep, they can give Tali nanobots that do the job of an immune system and kill invading cells.  Hell, it'll be BETTER than an immune system!

[cutthecameras]

madisk wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

madisk wrote...
lesbian roommate

I'm sure your post is fascinating but I stopped reading here.

I want a lesbian roommate too 

We've been living together for some 3 years now and trough her I've made more lesbian friends than I have straight female friends.

lesbians only hang out with other lesbians*. its insane!

*a modest exaggeration.

[Jake71887]

1490 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...

Well in the case of anaphylactic shock, it might actually be worse for her to have one! lol

Why do you have to ruin my hopes and dreams? 

Shep should just commission Mordin to "make" Tali an immune system.  I mean, if they can make molecular-level cybernetic implants for Shep, they can give Tali nanobots that do the job of an immune system and kill invading cells.  Hell, it'll be BETTER than an immune system!

I'm actually kinda surprised Quarians don't have nanobots that do that.. Maybe technology limitations, but for all the gossip of cybernetic implants, you'd figure they'd have something for their immune system. <_<

[1490]

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

1490 wrote...

Lareit wrote...

1490 wrote...



I think what would make Sheps cells toxic in this case is that because they are an entirely different protein construction, she would not have the enzymes to break them down and filter them out of her blood.  In that case, the compounds would just float around her body and buildup, creating problems in places like capillaries where filtration of nutrients is a very sensitive balance and depends on the concentration of chemicals in the blood.  

Or, Shep's proteins could improperly bind to her proteins to create unwanted effects, like the vasodilation we are talking about or cell fluid-shift that could make her swell up and lose blood volume from her vessels.

They don't enter the bloodstream unless they get digested. If they just pass through her system, as would be the most common scenario, she would just excreate it out later.

I think people jump the gun about the Dex/Lev based thing too much.

Yes it COULD kill her, but honestly such situations are rare. It's more a "why risk it" situation compared to a "dead if you touch it" one.

You could cook her a five course meal. She could eat all of it and be completely fine.

Or she could take a single bite of a sandwich and die.

Well, virtually everything you eat, good and bad, is absorbed in the intestine into the bloodstream.  However, all the veins from the GI system empty into the liver first, so the liver has a chance to filter it before it goes anywhere else.  Therefore, the liver would be one of the most likely places for her to become toxic because the chemicals would build up there, the next most likely place would be the brain because as her hepatic portal vein blocked off, the toxic blood would be pushed up back to her head.  

I just spent three days writing a paper about this, lol

Misleading statement. Virtually everything you eat, good or bad is absorbed cuase you are conditioned to only eat "edible" things. If you just went around eating a bunch of random **** there would be notably less absorbtion. For example grass and bark. Grass is actually really hard to digest even for animals that eat it normally. Cows have to eat it like 5 times to get it to digest. cuase its just that hard to break down.

True, but you're talking about the inability to digest the chemical cellulose, which is an absolutely massive molecule with thousands of atoms in a chain.  A molecule that big cannot enter the digestive system unless it's been broken down.  However, Tali's stomach likely has the ability to break down animal proteins into their contituents, which are small enough to enter the intestinal lumen and the bloodstream.

Now if she wasn't able to breakdown human proteins, however, your'e right: it would pass right through her system.  

[1490]

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...

Well in the case of anaphylactic shock, it might actually be worse for her to have one! lol

Why do you have to ruin my hopes and dreams? 

Shep should just commission Mordin to "make" Tali an immune system.  I mean, if they can make molecular-level cybernetic implants for Shep, they can give Tali nanobots that do the job of an immune system and kill invading cells.  Hell, it'll be BETTER than an immune system!

I'm actually kinda surprised Quarians don't have nanobots that do that.. Maybe technology limitations, but for all the gossip of cybernetic implants, you'd figure they'd have something for their immune system. <_<

Not enough resources to dot it, and probably not enough lab space on the Flotilla to dedicate for study either.  Compare with the Salarians being funded with a sh*tload of money from the council to create the genophage... twice.  If Cerberus can turn shepard from burnt-black gibs into a functioning person again, they'd be able to fix the Quarians.  Just takes enough money

[Angelraid]

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

1490 wrote...

Well in the case of anaphylactic shock, it might actually be worse for her to have one! lol

Why do you have to ruin my hopes and dreams? 

Shep should just commission Mordin to "make" Tali an immune system.  I mean, if they can make molecular-level cybernetic implants for Shep, they can give Tali nanobots that do the job of an immune system and kill invading cells.  Hell, it'll be BETTER than an immune system!

I'm actually kinda surprised Quarians don't have nanobots that do that.. Maybe technology limitations, but for all the gossip of cybernetic implants, you'd figure they'd have something for their immune system. <_<

You guys went through that whole discussion and didnt realize this wouldnt work cuase its the immune responce form Tali that is the issue not the actual forign object cuassing sickness.