137512 réponses à ce sujet

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

It'd be nice if it were possible to find a peaceful solution to the Quarian/Geth conflict and get the Quarians back on their homeworld, as well as back on the Citadel.

[sihill90]

turelhimvampire wrote...

Actually I think this discussion has practically tripped over a very Tali related question...

WHY did the council kick out the quarians, as lets face it - we all agree that it was a harsh reaction to the issue at hand. They have shown a lot more leniency to other species for doing this a LOT worse than creating the geth. I mean come on, the geth haven't even left the veil since around the time they kick the quarians out to the time Saren lead the Heretics against the citadel.

Interesting discussion to have, and very much Tali related, at least as I see it.

Technically speaking the Council had NO reason to kick the quarians out - quarians didn't create AI. The geth "evolved" into an AI, but were not "forged" into AI. Legion does say that the Geth eventually "woke up", and we all know that quarians didn't want that.

[turelhimvampire]

Lareit wrote...
Them kicking them out and then impeding the one documented effort to recolonize(i mean really, would the space cows care THAT MUCH? The elcor diplomat in ME1 seemed very civil and patient and even explained how their species didnt like change much and took things slowly) is fairly damning.

The batarians practiced slavery and they were allowed an embassy.
Perhaps thats the thing, after the quarians were driven from their homeworld they were simply too weak for the council to be able to use them to their advantage and were removed less for their error and more for their inability to contribute further political power.

Hell, dude/dudette, the ASARI practice slavery and practically anything else they can get away with by being top of the food chain - just go to Illium.

No wonder Thane spent two years there trying to clean the place up. It's worse than Omega - at least Omega doesn't hide what it is.

[Chochliksen PL]

Poland is for Recrutiable Tali!

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

SU37 wrote...

I'm working on getting through ME2 on insanity. Close to recruiting Tali!

If Tali were recruitable from the start, Insanity would be much easier to bear.
But thanks for reminding me, I'll go back to my Insanity playthrough now, too. Doing Thane's loyalty mission.

[turelhimvampire]

Well, I am off to see Soloman Kain. See you later all.



Keelah Se'lai

[DarkwanderStorm]

turelhimvampire wrote...

Well, I am off to see Soloman Kain. See you later all.

Keelah Se'lai

peace

[RaoulG4668]

sihill90 wrote...

turelhimvampire wrote...

Actually I think this discussion has practically tripped over a very Tali related question...

WHY did the council kick out the quarians, as lets face it - we all agree that it was a harsh reaction to the issue at hand. They have shown a lot more leniency to other species for doing this a LOT worse than creating the geth. I mean come on, the geth haven't even left the veil since around the time they kick the quarians out to the time Saren lead the Heretics against the citadel.

Interesting discussion to have, and very much Tali related, at least as I see it.

Technically speaking the Council had NO reason to kick the quarians out - quarians didn't create AI. The geth "evolved" into an AI, but were not "forged" into AI. Legion does say that the Geth eventually "woke up", and we all know that quarians didn't want that.

That and the thing I said in the middle of the last page, which everyone missed because we were whining about which race deserved to rule and everyone was quoting the waterfall pic (which of course I don't mind).

They kicked them out because the Migrant Fleet needs resources, and lots of it. So if they were to freely roam Alliance Space, they'd be taking the resources from races in the Alliance. So they came to the conclusion that it would be easier to have the Quarians die off somewhere.

Modifié par RaoulG4668, 20 février 2010 - 06:36 .

[Lareit]

Commandr Bond wrote...

Lareit wrote...

He's not aruging a divine mandate or a morally virtuous right to rule, he's arguing a tactical advantage that allows them to rule through economic and militarial power. It's true it's how the world works.

Might always makes right.

But I was never arguing that the council races didn't have the resources to rule, I'm arguing that the council races shouldn't be the only ones with a stake in the government....

People with the power aren't going to let other people join them if they can't make it worth their while : /
 Early in ME1 I argued the alliance was too independant and that we should work harder with the council races. At the time i knew little about the various specices and the council as a whole. I honestly thought they believed in the well being of all species. Over time I have learned that to not be true. They simply wanted the humans to strengthen their position. And thats their continued dominance over the other species. If the council, after being saved by the humans two fold, hadn't given humanity the seat, a great deal of uproar would of occured and other races would of began to schism against the council.

In short, the council, not necessarily the council races, is just as corrupt and self serving as every other government. Their agents, the spectres are the final proof of this. Completely unrestrained agents, so long as they don't interfere with the council's own agenda.

Excutor Pallin is right. The spectres do have too much power and no accountability....it's funny how so many of my stances change over the course of the 2 games.

[The_KFD_Case]

Commandr Bond wrote...

cBselfmonkey wrote...

Commandr Bond wrote...

A ruling government where only a few of the constituents are represented shouldn't exist. What gives the turians, asari, and salarians the right to rule over every other race, other than "We got here first."?

And, as I said, while there is no way of knowing whether the races were developing AI or not, it seems HIGHLY unlikely that all three were following that rule.

The council shouldn't exist in the first place.

They get to rule exactly because they got their first. They've got more ships, higher populations, control more territory and thus have more resources etc... The Asari, Salarians and the Turians just have more then the other races at this point so they get to be in charge. Works the same way here on Earth with larger Global 'super-powers'. Whether you try and make it look nice and pretty with laws and rules might will always make right.

As for the Council not existing at all...where does that leave the galaxy as a whole? Even a cumbersome government is more useful then anarchy.

You've got to be kidding me. You believe that because they have bigger guns they have a right to rule over every thinking being in the galaxy?

And I'm not suggesting that no government exist. I'm suggesting that this one, which serves the exclusive purpose of three species, should be replaced by one in which all are represented.

It seems to me you are approaching this from a moralistic perspective while Bself is approaching it from a realist perspective. The reality is that those who have power and a willingness to wield it can more or less do as they please unless they regulate themselves or encounter an opposition that is strong enough and willing to resist them. That's just how such matters work in our reality; it is apparently also how things work in the ME universe. Now, sometimes you get lucky and have powers-that-be which place value on moral and ethical behaviour though these things are also somewhat up in the air depending on how you define them. Example: the Realist school of political thought in our world would say that it is moral to do whatever you perceive to be in your country's best interest regardless of whom else it may hurt. This is because from the Realist perspective your main priority is to look out for the interests of your group, not the interests of other groups. Sometimes cooperation is the most expedient way to gain what you perceive to be in your group's best interest, and other times open warfare may be considered more effective. While I do not entirely agree with the Realist approach I do acknowledge some of its points.

Back to the Council races in particular, while they do have the most and biggest guns amongst the known established sapient species, they are not generally actively trying to attack or destroy other species nor newly discovered species. This, IMO, makes them a better galactic caretaker than certain other alternatives. Granted, if you long for a free-for-all where no one else gets to interfere in your business with laws and regulations then you would perhaps be better served following the Batarian example. Then again the Batarians have their own issues....

[The_KFD_Case]

DarkwanderStorm wrote...

:alien:mmmmmmm ass and hips and 3 finger and 2 toes mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm:alien:

Quarians have three toes on each foot. Two main ones and a small one on the side.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 20 février 2010 - 06:38 .

[DarkwanderStorm]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

DarkwanderStorm wrote...

:alien:mmmmmmm ass and hips and 3 finger and 2 toes mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm:alien:

Quarians have three toes on each foot. Two main ones and a small one on the side.

w/e

[The_KFD_Case]

Jake71887 wrote...

runescapeguy9 wrote...

DarkwanderStorm wrote...
 but anyway TALI WOOO

At this point I think it would be better to let them finish the conversation.

Political discussions are grounds for Thread locking... 

True.

[penguin12345]

I see we've moved on to thread 3.0. I should really stop sleeping through all the important stuff.

[penguin12345]

BTW any specific reason our god-thread was shut down, or did bioware just get bored with us?

[Lareit]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

runescapeguy9 wrote...

DarkwanderStorm wrote...
 but anyway TALI WOOO

At this point I think it would be better to let them finish the conversation.

Political discussions are grounds for Thread locking... 

True.

I would be shocked if they locked a thread that was disucssing ME politics. Why else put such things in the game if it's taboo to discuss.

[RaoulG4668]

New discussion time!

[Jake71887]

penguin12345 wrote...

BTW any specific reason our god-thread was shut down, or did bioware just get bored with us?

God-thread? 

[The_KFD_Case]

DarkwanderStorm wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

runescapeguy9 wrote...

DarkwanderStorm wrote...

screw that

Yes, but trying to stop them has already failed. Perhaps if we bring out the big guns....

Are we back on topic

Goddamn that figure can bring a grown man to his knees.....Then again I did study politics and have two university degrees in it so it will take more than that to distract me completely.

bull**** denial kills dont kill yourself

Hahahah! I'm not in denial though I do admire the lovely Tali'Zorah and her enticing curves....Oouh! The more I look at her the more mesmerized I become....See? No denial, merely aware of the potential allure of her persona and attributes....Mental counter measures can be deployed to interfere with that effect if need be.

[penguin12345]

RaoulG4668 wrote...



New discussion time!

Not the right picure dude.

[Lareit]

RaoulG4668 wrote...



New discussion time!

Looks like a female version of Ace D. Portgas

I like the look, but probably too human and hairs too long to be close to the true apperance.