137512 réponses à ce sujet

[Godur]

Xandurpein wrote...

I agree about Shala, but I'm not so sure about Gerrel. I got the feeling that Gerrel and Koris both belive that Tali shares her father's feelings towards the Geth and that Gerrel is sympathetic to Tali because he sees her as a potential ally. I am doubtful that Gerrel will let honor win over politics if he believed that Shepard has convinced Tali to be in favor of peace with the Geth. In fact both Gerrel and Koris express sympathy for Tali after the trial, it's just that politics often comes first.

Politics are not neccesserily a bad thing for Shepard& Tali in this case, heck for all we know the Admirals would support a relationship just for the sake of gaining an ally in shepard (for whatever cause they need help with) and then leave it at that .

Oh and I wasn't trying to say that Gerrel would cause trouble for shepard or anything, It's just that I'd be disapointed in him if he didn't atleast consider the political ramifications.

[HK01]

Thread is slow.

Good night Antilles.

Modifié par HK01, 10 mars 2010 - 12:02 .

[HK01]

Since nobody is here I guess I'll go play some Civ IV. I know it's old, but I just bought it. It's a little hard though, I'm playing on Chieftain and yet for some reason enemy axemen can cut down my cuirassiers....

[Archonsg]

HK01 wrote...

Since nobody is here I guess I'll go play some Civ IV. I know it's old, but I just bought it. It's a little hard though, I'm playing on Chieftain and yet for some reason enemy axemen can cut down my cuirassiers....

Its all about the dice throw.

[Xandurpein]

Godur wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I agree about Shala, but I'm not so sure about Gerrel. I got the feeling that Gerrel and Koris both belive that Tali shares her father's feelings towards the Geth and that Gerrel is sympathetic to Tali because he sees her as a potential ally. I am doubtful that Gerrel will let honor win over politics if he believed that Shepard has convinced Tali to be in favor of peace with the Geth. In fact both Gerrel and Koris express sympathy for Tali after the trial, it's just that politics often comes first.

Politics are not neccesserily a bad thing for Shepard& Tali in this case, heck for all we know the Admirals would support a relationship just for the sake of gaining an ally in shepard (for whatever cause they need help with) and then leave it at that .

Oh and I wasn't trying to say that Gerrel would cause trouble for shepard or anything, It's just that I'd be disapointed in him if he didn't atleast consider the political ramifications.

Just wanted to mention it as my Shepard took every chance to publicly promote peace beween the Quarians and the Geth and I think Tali may actually come around to it too (The scene after paragon talk to defuse the conflict between Tali and Legion is really cute and made me hopeful). So i fully expect to have Koris as an ally and Gerrel as opponent in ME3.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 10 mars 2010 - 12:24 .

[Phil725]

Archonsg wrote...

HK01 wrote...

Since nobody is here I guess I'll go play some Civ IV. I know it's old, but I just bought it. It's a little hard though, I'm playing on Chieftain and yet for some reason enemy axemen can cut down my cuirassiers....

Its all about the dice throw.

Unless he's attacking with weakened cuirassers

I love CIV, was completely obsessed with it for almost a year

[XX55XX]

Good morning, my fellow Talimancers! How art thou on this Wednesday morning?

[Lord Abrasion]

Phil725 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

HK01 wrote...

Since nobody is here I guess I'll go play some Civ IV. I know it's old, but I just bought it. It's a little hard though, I'm playing on Chieftain and yet for some reason enemy axemen can cut down my cuirassiers....

Its all about the dice throw.

Unless he's attacking with weakened cuirassers

I love CIV, was completely obsessed with it for almost a year

I remember a friend of mine playing the first game many years ago. He managed to get nukes before the neighboring nations had even invented the wheel.

[Raphael diSanto]

antilles333 wrote...
 [stuff snipped]

Alas, people digress - And do so fairly frequently. Even more so in a social situation where there's more than one person talking at the same time. I see where you're coming from, Wedge, and I agree - In many ways, I wish I had more time to post on this thread about Tali. You're one of the most active posters and more fervent supporters of this thread and it would be a shame to see you discouraged from posting on here.

At the same time - As previously said - This conversation does usually eventually come back around to some form of Talitopic, because while we might digress from time to time, the one thing that we have in common here, the one reason we're here .. is Tali.

Well, the regular posters, anyway. I wish I could count myself amongst them - I'm more of a regular lurker, due to time constraints..

Oh, and as a Vermonter.. New England sports teams rock. That is all. :innocent:

[Archonsg]

Xandurpein wrote...

Godur wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I agree about Shala, but I'm not so sure about Gerrel. I got the feeling that Gerrel and Koris both belive that Tali shares her father's feelings towards the Geth and that Gerrel is sympathetic to Tali because he sees her as a potential ally. I am doubtful that Gerrel will let honor win over politics if he believed that Shepard has convinced Tali to be in favor of peace with the Geth. In fact both Gerrel and Koris express sympathy for Tali after the trial, it's just that politics often comes first.

Politics are not neccesserily a bad thing for Shepard& Tali in this case, heck for all we know the Admirals would support a relationship just for the sake of gaining an ally in shepard (for whatever cause they need help with) and then leave it at that .

Oh and I wasn't trying to say that Gerrel would cause trouble for shepard or anything, It's just that I'd be disapointed in him if he didn't atleast consider the political ramifications.

Just wanted to mention it as my Shepard took every chance to publicly promote peace beween the Quarians and the Geth and I think Tali may actually come around to it too (The scene after paragon talk to defuse the conflict between Tali and Legion is really cute and made me hopeful). So i fully expect to have Koris as an ally and Gerrel as opponent in ME3.

Makes you think. I am still not sure if Legion can be fully trusted but I suspect that what Legion do, and by extention what the geths do will depend a lot on which Shepard, Paragon or Renegade is being played.
Lets say that you as Renegade Shepard take all the Ahole moves and sent Legion to Cerberus. They reactivate Legion and in doing so, allows Legion to eventually get free. Legion in this case will review past events and come to the cone to the conclusion that Shepard had handed him over to Cerberus for study. So in simpler terms it'll be something like this :
Saved organic > helped organic by gaining it entrance into Mass Effect Core > Organic recovers mobile platform > Mobile platform sent for study > organics remain hostile > conclusion > kill all organics

Simple and logical no?


Paragon (or Renegon) Shepard however will save and talk to Legion. So its a little more complicated:

Organic recovers mobile platform > reactivates mobile platform > engaged in dialouge > error : organic actions differs from other organics > Organic identified as Shepard Commander > Concensus : Shepard Commander defeated old machines Thus superior code > Concensus more information required study and co-operation with Shepard Commander > Addendum : Shepard Commander Code superior study and intergrate code if possible > Collectors defeated > Error : Mathematicaly impossible > Shepard Commander code confirmed superior > analyse and intergrate into Geth collective.

And the Geth logically conclude that co-operation based on Shepard's actions IF Shepard is Paragon, his actions are superior in "code" than outright hostile actions. Diplomacy first and foremost, war only if all avenues are exhausted. Legion and by extension the Geths will follow the "Paragon" path and this might possibly mean the eventual co-existance with the Quarians.

Renegon Shepard who saved Legion though will eventualy have Legion betray him. Why? Because Renegade actions teaches the geth that mercy or even trying to talk is not neccessary even if the option is there. Might is right, pre-emptive strikes before dialouge and most of all, shoot first since dead enemies can't shoot back.

Modifié par Archonsg, 10 mars 2010 - 01:07 .

[HK01]

Phil725 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

HK01 wrote...

Since nobody is here I guess I'll go play some Civ IV. I know it's old, but I just bought it. It's a little hard though, I'm playing on Chieftain and yet for some reason enemy axemen can cut down my cuirassiers....

Its all about the dice throw.

Unless he's attacking with weakened cuirassers

I love CIV, was completely obsessed with it for almost a year

No, they were on full health.

So how's the thread doing?

Modifié par HK01, 10 mars 2010 - 01:11 .

[madisk]

HK01 wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

HK01 wrote...

Since nobody is here I guess I'll go play some Civ IV. I know it's old, but I just bought it. It's a little hard though, I'm playing on Chieftain and yet for some reason enemy axemen can cut down my cuirassiers....

Its all about the dice throw.

Unless he's attacking with weakened cuirassers

I love CIV, was completely obsessed with it for almost a year

No, they were on full health.

Have I missed anything?

Terrain effects?

[HK01]

madisk wrote...

HK01 wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

HK01 wrote...

Since nobody is here I guess I'll go play some Civ IV. I know it's old, but I just bought it. It's a little hard though, I'm playing on Chieftain and yet for some reason enemy axemen can cut down my cuirassiers....

Its all about the dice throw.

Unless he's attacking with weakened cuirassers

I love CIV, was completely obsessed with it for almost a year

No, they were on full health.

Have I missed anything?

Terrain effects?

Was on a plain. I was talking about the thread anyway

[DTKT]

I wonder if they are going to lock it at some point or are simply going to let it ride...

[timedrake32]

hey guys did you miss me?

[Divulse456]

Hey guys. Some shameless self promo. I posted my first attempt at a fanfic in my blog. Criticism needed. I hope you enjoy. Keelah se'lai.

http://social.biowar...4320/blog/3186/

Modifié par Divulse456, 10 mars 2010 - 01:20 .

[madisk]

DTKT wrote...

I wonder if they are going to lock it at some point or are simply going to let it ride...

Same here. It's been allowed to grow abnormally large this time.

Maybe the admins have a running bet on when the thread crashes due to database failure or something.

[HK01]

timedrake32 wrote...

hey guys did you miss me?

No

[Archonsg]

madisk wrote...

DTKT wrote...

I wonder if they are going to lock it at some point or are simply going to let it ride...

Same here. It's been allowed to grow abnormally large this time.

Maybe the admins have a running bet on when the thread crashes due to database failure or something.

Or they figured that if they locked the thread, the some posters will just hammer out fast and hard and get the thread back to 1000+ pages again. Leaving it open removes that drive. So posters now who are posting are doing so because well...they have something to post, rather then just spamming / driving post count.

[Lord Abrasion]

Archonsg wrote...

madisk wrote...

DTKT wrote...

I wonder if they are going to lock it at some point or are simply going to let it ride...

Same here. It's been allowed to grow abnormally large this time.

Maybe the admins have a running bet on when the thread crashes due to database failure or something.

Or they figured that if they locked the thread, the some posters will just hammer out fast and hard and get the thread back to 1000+ pages again. Leaving it open removes that drive. So posters now who are posting are doing so because well...they have something to post, rather then just spamming / driving post count.

There's still plenty of pure spam but you're probably right about it being worse if a new thread was started.

[timedrake32]

HK01 wrote...

timedrake32 wrote...

hey guys did you miss me?

No

<_<

[Phil725]

Archonsg wrote...
*snip for length*

I don't see renegade or paragon actions having much of an effect on Legion.  The major outlier is handing him over to Cerberus.  That's such a stupid and seemingly long term harmful choice that I'm not sure how Bioware will handle it.  Since the outcome seems to be far away from other options, I would assume Bioware will find some way to pretend that decision didn't happen/didn't matter.

As far as renegade options changing him, I don't see that at all.  Legion is a super intelligent AI.  Not an impressionable teenager.  He would look at any situation, weighing both sides, and then make a decision based on whatever the geth decided collectively was the best.  Assuming that they would reach the paragon choice each time seems a little too presumptuous in my eyes. 

To take a random situation, the one on Samara's recruitment.  If the geth were fighting a group of 20 people, and killed 19 of them before getting the last one in a talking situation, I don't see the geth concluding that showing mercy in that situation was the correct move.  I could see them easily agreeing with renegade Shepard.  I can see the geth as completely renegade simply because they won't be swayed by emotion.  If they see a merc that wants to kill them, and will if given the oppurtunity, begging for their life, they can do the heartless, but smart decision to kill him without problem.

Either way, the geth could understand both options.  The geth have come this far on their own, I don't see them changing philosophies based on one person's actions, no matter how superior they think he is.

As far as betraying Shepard, I don't see a chance of it happening.  They're the only major group that knows about the threat of the reapers.  They'll do everything in their power to make sure the reapers get destroyed.  Betraying Shepard, regardless of what they think he'll do later, just isn't smart.  Shepard needs the geth, and the geth need Shepard, both sides know this.

And it's also important to remember.  Renegade Shepard is not about killing everything for no reason.  It's about not letting anything jeopardizing the mission.  There is no logical reason to leave a merc or two alive.  The geth can understand that.  The geth can tell that they aren't in the way of the mission like those mercs, and thus, won't be be killed to ensure safety.

[Alanosborn1991]