137512 réponses à ce sujet

[Harold Genhi]

here are the next three chapters of Into the Darkness if anyone cares

Chapter 10

http://social.biowar...9396/blog/3309/

Chapter 9

http://social.biowar...9396/blog/3244/

Chapter 8

http://social.biowar...9396/blog/3159/

[sergio71785]

The_KFD_Case wrote...
I began to feel choked up the same way I did when I read the fanfic "My Lessons, My Mistakes"....Then I came to your ending and it helped avert a Tali-system-crash.

A Tali-system-crash you say? That sounds a lot more pleasant than a blue screen of death. 

[Felipe 058]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Well Samara is sorta the opposite of that. Letting the lack of emotion to allow her to do things that most wouldnt normally consider an act of integrity. Like murdering a good cop for doing her job.

If you engage Samara in conversation she states that the code does not exist for moral enlightenment but as a means of punishing the wicked. She isn't oblivious to the criticism her code faces at the hands of moralistic dissenters yet she remains unapologetic for carrying out the very black-or-white teachings of the code. It is impressive in one regard while disturbing in another, IMO. Again though, if you speak to her at length it isn't that she doesn't have emotions nor is incapable of friendly discussions; her discipline does not remove these parts of her persona, it simply helps her override them. That is different from being devoid of understanding and knowing what compassion is for example, even if the physical end results may amount to much the same thing.

To punish the wicked yes. But the code dictates the same punishment no matter what the crime. death. furthermore the crux the becomes what is wickedness. Everyone is guilty to some extent. which would lead to universal genocide. Even the justicars themselves are not above reproach yet they do not commit suicide for thier own actions. which is hypocracy. another turn off.

As Samara points out the Asari justicars are similar to the Council Spectres, though Shepard is correct in pointing out that the Spectres (at least in theory) have some oversight from the Council itself. As with the Spectres so too do I think it is with the justicars: While the justicars are obligated to punish the wicked there may still be some leeway as to which of the wicked they go after first and foremost. Example: Samara on Omega comments on the rampant abuses on Omega, yet she does not stray from her oath to Shepard's mission. Also, before swearing the oath to Shepard, she once had an encounter with a Turian Spectre - she chose to let him escape because he deliberately endangered the lives of many innocents. She chose to save them instead of killing him indicating that she is not without the ability to think for herself even while adhering to the code. If that is the case for her then perhaps some of the other justicars act similarly, just as different Spectres act differently too (i.e. some arrest criminals while others simply kill them where they stand)?

As for justicars not being above reproach I concur. What evidence do we have that if any justicars have gone rogue that they haven't committed suicide? Perhaps some have, perhaps some haven't. If some haven't I strongly suspect that the code would compel other justicars to hunt their former colleague down. We simply do not have enough detailed information about all things justicar to ascertain these things with empirical confidence.

Actually, she stayed true to her oath to Shepard because she invoked the Third Oath of Subsumation, a part of the justicar Code. She also saved that innocent because, according to the code, protecting innocents is more important than punishing the wicked. She even said herself that if Shepard did anything against the Code while she served under him, she would likely come back later and kill him for it once her oath to him had ended.

[danteshepard]

Geth Knight wrote...

This is a fan mod and funny as hell.

and thus we can die fulfilled

[The_KFD_Case]

Darth Cheesecake wrote...

No wait bear with me... they should go to a psychologist to help her work through her problems. Think about it.

You are just hoping for a threesome you dog, you!

[Geth Knight]

Darth Cheesecake wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Well Samara is sorta the opposite of that. Letting the lack of emotion to allow her to do things that most wouldnt normally consider an act of integrity. Like murdering a good cop for doing her job.

If you engage Samara in conversation she states that the code does not exist for moral enlightenment but as a means of punishing the wicked. She isn't oblivious to the criticism her code faces at the hands of moralistic dissenters yet she remains unapologetic for carrying out the very black-or-white teachings of the code. It is impressive in one regard while disturbing in another, IMO. Again though, if you speak to her at length it isn't that she doesn't have emotions nor is incapable of friendly discussions; her discipline does not remove these parts of her persona, it simply helps her override them. That is different from being devoid of understanding and knowing what compassion is for example, even if the physical end results may amount to much the same thing.

To punish the wicked yes. But the code dictates the same punishment no matter what the crime. death. furthermore the crux the becomes what is wickedness. Everyone is guilty to some extent. which would lead to universal genocide. Even the justicars themselves are not above reproach yet they do not commit suicide for thier own actions. which is hypocracy. another turn off.

As Samara points out the Asari justicars are similar to the Council Spectres, though Shepard is correct in pointing out that the Spectres (at least in theory) have some oversight from the Council itself. As with the Spectres so too do I think it is with the justicars: While the justicars are obligated to punish the wicked there may still be some leeway as to which of the wicked they go after first and foremost. Example: Samara on Omega comments on the rampant abuses on Omega, yet she does not stray from her oath to Shepard's mission. Also, before swearing the oath to Shepard, she once had an encounter with a Turian Spectre - she chose to let him escape because he deliberately endangered the lives of many innocents. She chose to save them instead of killing him indicating that she is not without the ability to think for herself even while adhering to the code. If that is the case for her then perhaps some of the other justicars act similarly, just as different Spectres act differently too (i.e. some arrest criminals while others simply kill them where they stand)?

As for justicars not being above reproach I concur. What evidence do we have that if any justicars have gone rogue that they haven't committed suicide? Perhaps some have, perhaps some haven't. If some haven't I strongly suspect that the code would compel other justicars to hunt their former colleague down. We simply do not have enough detailed information about all things justicar to ascertain these things with empirical confidence.

I have to ask KFD have you ever lost a logical debate?

I thought Samara let Nihilus go because he impressed her with how fast he picked up on her Code.

[Pauravi]

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Ah yes, innocent. But then that just another sidestep. Becuase now it is how do you define innocent. No one is totally innocent, not even justicars. and thus all the same points apply.

How do you know that the Code does not define that as well?
In fact, the logical conclusion from info in the game is that it does.

The fact of the matter is that your argument is on completely hypothetical ground without the actual Code in front of you to be dissected.  Samara leads us to believe that the Code is absolutely black and white, and that no significant ambiguities are left for her to interpret in any situation.  We must take her at her word about this, since we cannot read it for ourselves.  As a result, your argument fails since it assumes the existence of information that is not at anyones disposal.

[Terrorfex]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Well Samara is sorta the opposite of that. Letting the lack of emotion to allow her to do things that most wouldnt normally consider an act of integrity. Like murdering a good cop for doing her job.

If you engage Samara in conversation she states that the code does not exist for moral enlightenment but as a means of punishing the wicked. She isn't oblivious to the criticism her code faces at the hands of moralistic dissenters yet she remains unapologetic for carrying out the very black-or-white teachings of the code. It is impressive in one regard while disturbing in another, IMO. Again though, if you speak to her at length it isn't that she doesn't have emotions nor is incapable of friendly discussions; her discipline does not remove these parts of her persona, it simply helps her override them. That is different from being devoid of understanding and knowing what compassion is for example, even if the physical end results may amount to much the same thing.

To punish the wicked yes. But the code dictates the same punishment no matter what the crime. death. furthermore the crux the becomes what is wickedness. Everyone is guilty to some extent. which would lead to universal genocide. Even the justicars themselves are not above reproach yet they do not commit suicide for thier own actions. which is hypocracy. another turn off.

As Samara points out the Asari justicars are similar to the Council Spectres, though Shepard is correct in pointing out that the Spectres (at least in theory) have some oversight from the Council itself. As with the Spectres so too do I think it is with the justicars: While the justicars are obligated to punish the wicked there may still be some leeway as to which of the wicked they go after first and foremost. Example: Samara on Omega comments on the rampant abuses on Omega, yet she does not stray from her oath to Shepard's mission. Also, before swearing the oath to Shepard, she once had an encounter with a Turian Spectre - she chose to let him escape because he deliberately endangered the lives of many innocents. She chose to save them instead of killing him indicating that she is not without the ability to think for herself even while adhering to the code. If that is the case for her then perhaps some of the other justicars act similarly, just as different Spectres act differently too (i.e. some arrest criminals while others simply kill them where they stand)?

As for justicars not being above reproach I concur. What evidence do we have that if any justicars have gone rogue that they haven't committed suicide? Perhaps some have, perhaps some haven't. If some haven't I strongly suspect that the code would compel other justicars to hunt their former colleague down. We simply do not have enough detailed information about all things justicar to ascertain these things with empirical confidence.

THE FOLLOWING IS A SERIOUS POST

The Justicar system is by definition bent to self-policing, albeit imperfectly. When anything approaching a theological or absolutist authoritiarian order is defined by a set of inflexible documents and/or narrow intepretation of conduct and gives rise to a "rogue" element, those elements are invariably suppressed, hunted down or challenged by the majority of the individuals produced by that same system.

The Justicars do not need oversight in the same way as C-Sec needs it - The near total majority of Justicars who emerge from their order will be compelled to remove rogue Justicars by their code which leaves no room for intepretation in such matters. The difference between C-Sec, and even the Spectres and the Justicar order being of course that the latter has supreme and total authority to act whereas even Spectres do not.

[sergio71785]

 

I can't tell if her dialog was adorable, or if I only perceive it as adorable because it's her dialog. But....d'awwwww 

[danteshepard]

Somebody1003 wrote...

Well Im out for the night cya later people.

Bye ya shallow turncoat.

[knight5923]

Night Somebody
Tali loves you, even if you don't return it:P

[Gerudan]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

didn't smara say its part of the code to save the innocents over hunting nihlus?

Yes, which is by the way somewhat of a contradiction to the whole story with the policewoman: She is compelled to save an innocent, even if this let a wicked one get away, but she is also compelled to kill an innocent to not letting a wicked get away?

[Angelraid]

Darth Cheesecake wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

Darth Cheesecake wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

Darth Cheesecake wrote...

So you don't care enough to try to help her?

I do, but I dont think she would want to go to that.

Oh at least admit that would be funny to see...I mean just imagine it.

All this talk you guys bring me into makes me sad on how cold she has become.

Well either try to help her get "good" or embrace the new "evil" Liara.

Therapist: So let me get this strait. You two fell in love, Then you died?(points at sheppard)

Sheppard: Yes that's right.

Therapist. So Liara, you travelled across the galaxy facing death many times to recover the corpse of the man who killed your mother? And then gave him to your mortal enemies in order to bring him back to life while you spent the next two years trying to assassinate someone you'd never met?

Liara: Well, it wasn't exactly that simple but that is more or less accurate....

Therapist: I've gotta be totally honest with you two. This is a little out of my pay grade.

[danteshepard]

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Ah yes, innocent. But then that just another sidestep. Becuase now it is how do you define innocent. No one is totally innocent, not even justicars. and thus all the same points apply.

The guy who quoted you had a turian avatar and you said "Ah yes "innocent"".
It made me lol.

Modifié par danteshepard, 14 mars 2010 - 12:08 .

[Terrorfex]

Gerudan wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

didn't smara say its part of the code to save the innocents over hunting nihlus?

Yes, which is by the way somewhat of a contradiction to the whole story with the policewoman: She is compelled to save an innocent, even if this let a wicked one get away, but she is also compelled to kill an innocent to not letting a wicked get away?

I believe she actually said she grudgingly respected Nihlus for turning her own code against her to facilitate his escape.

[Gerudan]

Terrorfex wrote...



THE FOLLOWING IS A SERIOUS POST

You can do that? 

[NuclearBuddha]

Gerudan wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

didn't smara say its part of the code to save the innocents over hunting nihlus?

Yes, which is by the way somewhat of a contradiction to the whole story with the policewoman: She is compelled to save an innocent, even if this let a wicked one get away, but she is also compelled to kill an innocent to not letting a wicked get away?

The thing with the policewoman was specifically about the Code:  it forbids her from being detained more than a day.

The thing with Nihlus was cost/benefit analysis:  she could kill him, but only at the cost of a greater number of innocent lives.

[Gerudan]

Terrorfex wrote...

I believe she actually said she grudgingly respected Nihlus for turning her own code against her to facilitate his escape.

That doesn't negate what I wrote.