137512 réponses à ce sujet

[The_KFD_Case]

Darth Cheesecake wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Rakia_Time wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...


THIS.  Sad endings in movies or books can be pleasantly cathartic because there's a distance between the audience and the material.  Video games tend to be more immersive and make the tragedy more personal.

A well made sad ending in a movie or book can also be pretty depressing, but in a game where you're in controll it gets really bad. Still hate Fallout 3 before Broken Steel, and any other game with bad ending i can remember

The ending of FO3 made me furious.  I haven't played that game since completing it.

I wasn't furious at that particular ending, but it did surprise me a bit that there was no other way to bring home the proverbial bacon. I haven't replayed it since then either though that has just as much to do with my personal opinion that FO3 is quite dull in many ways and even though it is a fantastic rendition of FO1 & 2, FO3 never manages to capture the same mood nor dialogue. As with Oblivion, Bethesda has made a mammoth of an RPG game which is a bit too open, IMO.

Who didn't love FO1 or FO2 I've never played FO3 is it any good?

It's very authentic looking in terms of replicating the items from the original two games. It's massive and open and nails the post-nuclear apocalypse setting....Perhaps it does it a bit too well. The game is literally grey and brown through most of it with the occasional green glow from a screen. If you are easily depressed then you may want to stay away from FO3.

It wasn't a bad game, IMO. I tend to get excited about Bethesda games yet almost invariably end experiencing fatigue from the bland characters, dialogue and wide open sandbox designs. I like open sandbox games but I want it balanced with finely crafted stories, characters, dialogue and a sense of purpose. BioWare excels at that which is why they are my favourite developers.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 14 mars 2010 - 01:05 .

[danteshepard]

Terrorfex wrote...

Gerudan wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

didn't smara say its part of the code to save the innocents over hunting nihlus?

Yes, which is by the way somewhat of a contradiction to the whole story with the policewoman: She is compelled to save an innocent, even if this let a wicked one get away, but she is also compelled to kill an innocent to not letting a wicked get away?

I believe she actually said she grudgingly respected Nihlus for turning her own code against her to facilitate his escape.

I find it interesting that she didn't pursue him further after the situation was dealt with.

[Gerudan]

NuclearBuddha wrote...


The thing with the policewoman was specifically about the Code:  it forbids her from being detained more than a day.

The thing with Nihlus was cost/benefit analysis:  she could kill him, but only at the cost of a greater number of innocent lives.

It still contradicts itself. 

[Terrorfex]

Gerudan wrote...

Terrorfex wrote...



THE FOLLOWING IS A SERIOUS POST

You can do that? 

I just did. I am capable of much intelligent discourse when I'm not bouncing against the walls wooping and screaming about how much I Tali.

<3

[sergio71785]

This should've been Tali's "investigate" dialog wheel:


Normandy status -----
Tali's Work ------------- 0 ---------- Return
Quarian Eyes ----------   -------- [UPGRADES]

[NuclearBuddha]

danteshepard wrote...

Terrorfex wrote...

Gerudan wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

didn't smara say its part of the code to save the innocents over hunting nihlus?

Yes, which is by the way somewhat of a contradiction to the whole story with the policewoman: She is compelled to save an innocent, even if this let a wicked one get away, but she is also compelled to kill an innocent to not letting a wicked get away?

I believe she actually said she grudgingly respected Nihlus for turning her own code against her to facilitate his escape.

I find it interesting that she didn't pursue him further after the situation was dealt with.

He left asari space.  Why go after him when there's plenty of wrongdoing to be punished locally.  The only reason Samara left asari space was to go after her own daughter.

[Gerudan]

danteshepard wrote...

I find it interesting that she didn't pursue him further after the situation was dealt with.

Indeed another hole in the story, although one could argue, that pursuing Morinth was more important to her. 

[Angelraid]

Terrorfex wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Well Samara is sorta the opposite of that. Letting the lack of emotion to allow her to do things that most wouldnt normally consider an act of integrity. Like murdering a good cop for doing her job.

If you engage Samara in conversation she states that the code does not exist for moral enlightenment but as a means of punishing the wicked. She isn't oblivious to the criticism her code faces at the hands of moralistic dissenters yet she remains unapologetic for carrying out the very black-or-white teachings of the code. It is impressive in one regard while disturbing in another, IMO. Again though, if you speak to her at length it isn't that she doesn't have emotions nor is incapable of friendly discussions; her discipline does not remove these parts of her persona, it simply helps her override them. That is different from being devoid of understanding and knowing what compassion is for example, even if the physical end results may amount to much the same thing.

To punish the wicked yes. But the code dictates the same punishment no matter what the crime. death. furthermore the crux the becomes what is wickedness. Everyone is guilty to some extent. which would lead to universal genocide. Even the justicars themselves are not above reproach yet they do not commit suicide for thier own actions. which is hypocracy. another turn off.

As Samara points out the Asari justicars are similar to the Council Spectres, though Shepard is correct in pointing out that the Spectres (at least in theory) have some oversight from the Council itself. As with the Spectres so too do I think it is with the justicars: While the justicars are obligated to punish the wicked there may still be some leeway as to which of the wicked they go after first and foremost. Example: Samara on Omega comments on the rampant abuses on Omega, yet she does not stray from her oath to Shepard's mission. Also, before swearing the oath to Shepard, she once had an encounter with a Turian Spectre - she chose to let him escape because he deliberately endangered the lives of many innocents. She chose to save them instead of killing him indicating that she is not without the ability to think for herself even while adhering to the code. If that is the case for her then perhaps some of the other justicars act similarly, just as different Spectres act differently too (i.e. some arrest criminals while others simply kill them where they stand)?

As for justicars not being above reproach I concur. What evidence do we have that if any justicars have gone rogue that they haven't committed suicide? Perhaps some have, perhaps some haven't. If some haven't I strongly suspect that the code would compel other justicars to hunt their former colleague down. We simply do not have enough detailed information about all things justicar to ascertain these things with empirical confidence.

THE FOLLOWING IS A SERIOUS POST

The Justicar system is by definition bent to self-policing, albeit imperfectly. When anything approaching a theological or absolutist authoritiarian order is defined by a set of inflexible documents and/or narrow intepretation of conduct and gives rise to a "rogue" element, those elements are invariably suppressed, hunted down or challenged by the majority of the individuals produced by that same system.

The Justicars do not need oversight in the same way as C-Sec needs it - The near total majority of Justicars who emerge from their order will be compelled to remove rogue Justicars by their code which leaves no room for intepretation in such matters. The difference between C-Sec, and even the Spectres and the Justicar order being of course that the latter has supreme and total authority to act whereas even Spectres do not.

To clarify in my post I wasn't talking about rogue justicars that need to be hunted down I was talking about the fact that even normal justicars have done things in the past that would likely contradict the code. For example. Asari are often mercs in thier maiden stage - then something happens that makes them decide to become a justicar (like what happened to Samara) Now the code would compel them to kill a person who does something wicked. And they know that they have, yet they dont kill themselves. Selective Justice Much. No one is above flaw, everyone no matter how noble or good has made mistakes and has wickedness inside them. The only way the code could overcome this is if justicars where trained from birth thus thier actions could be excused as under the code but thier not so

[Terrorfex]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Darth Cheesecake wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Rakia_Time wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...


THIS.  Sad endings in movies or books can be pleasantly cathartic because there's a distance between the audience and the material.  Video games tend to be more immersive and make the tragedy more personal.

A well made sad ending in a movie or book can also be pretty depressing, but in a game where you're in controll it gets really bad. Still hate Fallout 3 before Broken Steel, and any other game with bad ending i can remember

The ending of FO3 made me furious.  I haven't played that game since completing it.

I wasn't furious at that particular ending, but it did surprise me a bit that there was no other way to bring home the proverbial bacon. I haven't replayed it since then either though that has just as much to do with my personal opinion that FO3 is quite dull in many ways and even though it is a fantastic rendition of FO1 & 2, FO3 never manages to capture the same mood nor dialogue. As with Oblivion, Bethesda has made a mammoth of an RPG game which is a bit too open, IMO.

Who didn't love FO1 or FO2 I've never played FO3 is it any good?

It's very authentic looking in terms of replicating the items from the original two games. It's massive and open and nails the post-nuclear apocalypse setting....Perhaps it does it a bit too well. The game is literally grey and brown through most of it with the occasional green glow from a screen. If you are easily depressed then you may want to stay away from FO3.

It wasn't an okay game. I tend to get excited about Bethesda games yet almost invariably end experiencing fatigue from the bland characters, dialogue and wide open sandbox designs. I like open sandbox games but I want it balanced with finely crafted stories, characters, dialogue and a sense of purpose. BioWare excels at that which is why they are my favourite developers.

Do you remember when main characters who never talked / were never seen / had no personality were cool, new and interesting?

I do. Gordon Freeman. Okay, we get it; they're mysterious. MOVE ON.

[knight5923]

Darth Cheesecake wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

Darth Cheesecake wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

Well Im out for the night cya later people.

Wait! you didn't say whether you would pick new "evil" Liara or try to help her get "good"
"

Good.

bah your no fun evil Liara sounds very...fun.

Know who's more fun than evil Liara?







............Tali:wub:

[Pauravi]

Gerudan wrote...

Yes, which is by the way somewhat of a contradiction to the whole story with the policewoman: She is compelled to save an innocent, even if this let a wicked one get away, but she is also compelled to kill an innocent to not letting a wicked get away?

But the police woman would not be innocent, since she is attempting to stop her from pursuing a dangerous criminal.

Indeed, considering the way Morinth works, it is highly likely that delaying Samara by even a couple of days may result in Samara murdering someone.

Now, if you were in a situation in which you could either kill someone who was trying to incarcerate you (someone who, by the way, is blindly following orders themselves), OR let an innocent person die at the hands of a serial killer, which would you choose?  Both ways you have a death, but in one of them the person could arguably be said to have brought it upon themselves.

[Gerudan]

Terrorfex wrote...

I just did. I am capable of much intelligent discourse when I'm not bouncing against the walls wooping and screaming about how much I Tali.

<3

And you're still sure you're from Scotland? ;)

[danteshepard]

Gerudan wrote...

danteshepard wrote...

I find it interesting that she didn't pursue him further after the situation was dealt with.

Indeed another hole in the story, although one could argue, that pursuing Morinth was more important to her. 

I'm not argueing one way or the other. I'm just saying that that's interesting to me for some reason.

[NuclearBuddha]

I'm leaving now, but I hope to have a fanfic dealing with Samara posted later. By tomorrow at least.

[Geth Knight]

How exactly did the Samara discussion get started? And can we start sniping quotes?

[Geth Knight]

knight5923 wrote...



Know who's more fun than evil Liara?







............Tali:wub:

What about "evil" Tali?

[knight5923]

sergio71785 wrote...

This should've been Tali's "investigate" dialog wheel:


Normandy status -----
Tali's Work ------------- 0 ---------- Return
Quarian Eyes ----------   -------- [UPGRADES]

you select Quarian Eyes, and the camera just pans to Shepard drooling

[knight5923]

Geth Knight wrote...

knight5923 wrote...



Know who's more fun than evil Liara?







............Tali:wub:

What about "evil" Tali?

Tali's Tali. End of story:wub: