Did you read the second part of that its great.The_KFD_Case wrote...
Darth Cheesecake wrote...
Therapist: I'll call a friend who might be able to help you (leaves to make a call)Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...]
Therapist: So let me get this strait. You two fell in love, Then you died?(points at sheppard)
Sheppard: Yes that's right.
Therapist. So Liara, you travelled across the galaxy facing death many times to recover the corpse of the man who killed your mother? And then gave him to your mortal enemies in order to bring him back to life while you spent the next two years trying to assassinate someone you'd never met?
Liara: Well, it wasn't exactly that simple but that is more or less accurate....
Therapist: I've gotta be totally honest with you two. This is a little out of my pay grade.
KFD: I heard you two needed my help.
"It's what I do."
All Tali fans, read this! IT'S UP TO US TO KEEP TALI ALIVE! 3.0!!
Débuté par
TheSorrow1175
, févr. 18 2010 08:49
-
Ce sujet est fermé
- Show only BioWare posts
#68751
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 12:56
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
-
- Guests
Retour en haut
#68752
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 12:56
alickar
-
- Members
- 3 031 messages
i will not stay quiet u anger the gods!!!Darth Cheesecake wrote...
Silence alickar you will anger the new dark lord of awesome...Darth Tali!!!alickar wrote...
weird mini argumentDarth Cheesecake wrote...
You know that "suprise" move she had for you, she practiced on me:devil:Terrorfex wrote...
Gerudan wrote...
Phil725 wrote...
Tali definitely acts much more renegade than most here admit, but she is still heavily paragon.
Only against Geth or which situations do you mean?
She's a renegade in my bedroom ... <3
#68753
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 12:57
Gerudan
-
- Members
- 1 640 messages
Phil725 wrote...
Renegade towards the geth mainly, but there are also a few times throughout the story where she responds with the more renegade option (Prazza, Qwib Qwib.) We don't see much of her in a leadership role away from Shep, but she seems like a more renegade person in that situation than when she's on the Normandy.
Don't get me wrong, she's either the most, or close to the most paragon character, but the gist I get from this thread is that she's right in line with 100% paragon 0% renegade Shep, which isn't true.
That aren't renegade behaviors in my book.
Calling someone an idiot isn't exactly "renegade", Prazza just is an idiot and she only tries to bring him back in line.
#68754
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 12:57
gkillerrin
-
- Members
- 2 888 messages
lol i know rightalickar wrote...
wtfgkillerrin wrote...
lol this is probally the most random thing i've found so far
#68755
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 12:58
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
-
- Guests
*alickar continues to rant until a small knife like red lightsabre stabs through his head*alickar wrote...
i will not stay quiet u anger the gods!!!Darth Cheesecake wrote...
Silence alickar you will anger the new dark lord of awesome...Darth Tali!!!alickar wrote...
weird mini argumentDarth Cheesecake wrote...
You know that "suprise" move she had for you, she practiced on me:devil:Terrorfex wrote...
Gerudan wrote...
Phil725 wrote...
Tali definitely acts much more renegade than most here admit, but she is still heavily paragon.
Only against Geth or which situations do you mean?
She's a renegade in my bedroom ... <3
Darth Tali: I find your lack of faith disturbing.
#68756
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 12:59
The_KFD_Case
-
- Members
- 5 708 messages
danteshepard wrote...
I find it interesting that she didn't pursue him further after the situation was dealt with.
Could be because Justicars tend to stay within Asari space and the Turian Spectre may well have left that area of space. Just speculating, yet it makes sense.
#68757
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 12:59
Gerudan
-
- Members
- 1 640 messages
Terrorfex wrote...
Do you want to play with us too?
I would never lift my hand against Tali.
#68758
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 12:59
Angelraid
-
- Members
- 1 134 messages
Terrorfex wrote...
Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...
Snip*
Well "IF" that where true it would just cuase another hypocracy. For if the code is designed to punish the wicked but allows for not punishing the wickedness that one has done in the past then you are not punishing the wicked.
Furthermore such a defense would present itself as yes I murdered that man but I'm not murdering right now. That was the past. Then any punishment thereto doled out would be retroactive by definition and thus would revert to the old state of hypocracy
And Finally All of what that last exchange is tottally irrelevent becuase ALL punishment is retroactive by the very meaning of the word. You can not punish someone for a crime unless that crime has already been committed.
You're applying your argument from a position of due process as understood in Western / First World developed judicial systems. There is no canon evidence that the Justicars are even an organ of the Asari Republics - There is evidence that they are tolerated, allowed to operate with supreme judicial authority, but there's no evidence that I'm aware of that clearly states the Justicar Order is a component of the Asari federal government.
Assuming that to be the case, what your definition of "Wickedness" is depends entirely on the precise wording fo the code. We can draw on facts established by the game :In this case wickedness seems more akin to the way the Catholic Church of old might have used the word, rather than wickedness in a legal sense empowered by a government legal authority.
Committing a wrong does not disqualify one from punishing a wrong - evidence of that is all around you for several thousand years into the history of all civilisations.
It seems like you're taking the view I'm arguing against any hypocrisy. I am not - there is hypocrisy in virtually ever single system of control ever conceived by one human being over another, and so I see no reason why the Asari, or the Salarians, or the Baataraians or the Krogan would be any different.
"
Well "IF" that where true it would just cuase another hypocracy.
For if the code is designed to punish the wicked but allows for not
punishing the wickedness that one has done in the past then you are not
punishing the wicked."
That is totally subjective - It is entirely possible that the Justicar Code is in fact itself a form of penance, rather than a path chosen in the same way one would join the military.
text wall - approaching on paragraph bases
1-2
I never mention legality or govermental oversight or due process. If I steal something and a justicar punishes me for stealing it. The act of stealing it occurs before the punishment and is thus retroactive for my stealing of something in the past. By definition punishment is a action for events that have already occurred. Also It doesn't matter how the code defines wickedness if it only punishes the wickedness of others its still hypocracy.
3
No but if you dont punish yourself with the same code that you punish others with.... DUN DUN DUN hypocracy.
4
True, but in this case its just so blatent and there is no concern for it held by the Justicars (or atleast not by Samara). Also other system acknoledge this and allow for consesions.
5
This could be, but the fact that they do not offer it to others before punishing them negates this - that and the fact that if it was the justicar code would compel the justicars to punish you when you arrived on thier doorstep. Which obivously wouldn't be condusive to new recruits, but doesnt make it any less hypocritical.
Thats the problem when dealing with absolutes (black and white) is when you talk in absolutes you leave no room to correct such
hypocracies. Like the ablsolute statement "there are not absolutes"
which is true except for the fact that the statement in order to be
true must be false. a type of hypocracy. Using Absolutes means absolutely at some point your going to contradict yourself.
#68759
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 12:59
alickar
-
- Members
- 3 031 messages
krogan has 2 brains.,..Darth Cheesecake wrote...
*alickar continues to rant until a small knife like red lightsabre stabs through his head*alickar wrote...
i will not stay quiet u anger the gods!!!Darth Cheesecake wrote...
Silence alickar you will anger the new dark lord of awesome...Darth Tali!!!alickar wrote...
weird mini argumentDarth Cheesecake wrote...
You know that "suprise" move she had for you, she practiced on me:devil:Terrorfex wrote...
Gerudan wrote...
Phil725 wrote...
Tali definitely acts much more renegade than most here admit, but she is still heavily paragon.
Only against Geth or which situations do you mean?
She's a renegade in my bedroom ... <3
Darth Tali: I find your lack of faith disturbing.
#68760
Guest_TGFKAMAdmaX_*
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 12:59
Guest_TGFKAMAdmaX_*
Guest_TGFKAMAdmaX_*
-
- Guests
u continue to impress me...most people only look at the act themselves and not the motivations behind them...motivations are everything...thought i was the only one...lolThe_KFD_Case wrote...
Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...
Pauravi wrote...
"Wicked" is tightly defined by the Code itself. It may not agree with what you think is wicked, but the Code is black and white, as Samara says. This is not an ambiguous issue. By definition the Justicars cannot be wicked if they follow the Code, thus there is no hypocrisy.
All the references to punishment in the game are death so thats where I draw my conclusion.
As to the issue of what is wickedness that is basically what I was saying. But to illistrate. If killing someone is wicked - and the punishment is to kill them - then you have killed someone - for which the punishment is death. By following the code you essentially break the code, but its ok cuase you were following the code. Hypocracy.
You fail to look at the motivation behind the act. Killing in self-defence is not murder though it is killing. Killing for selfish reasons is generally viewed as murder. By surgically killing those whom would indiscriminately kill others you can present a strong case that you are acting in the greater interest of others even though you are physically committing similar acts as those individuals whom you are punishing.
#68761
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 12:59
Phil725
-
- Members
- 7 461 messages
Gerudan wrote...
Phil725 wrote...
Renegade towards the geth mainly, but there are also a few times throughout the story where she responds with the more renegade option (Prazza, Qwib Qwib.) We don't see much of her in a leadership role away from Shep, but she seems like a more renegade person in that situation than when she's on the Normandy.
Don't get me wrong, she's either the most, or close to the most paragon character, but the gist I get from this thread is that she's right in line with 100% paragon 0% renegade Shep, which isn't true.
That aren't renegade behaviors in my book.
Calling someone an idiot isn't exactly "renegade", Prazza just is an idiot and she only tries to bring him back in line.
Well may not have been fully renegade, but it definitely wasn't the most paragon choice of words in either situation.
#68763
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:00
gkillerrin
-
- Members
- 2 888 messages
UGH WHY DOES IT KEEP ON DOUBLE POSTING
Modifié par gkillerrin, 14 mars 2010 - 01:02 .
#68764
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:00
Angelraid
-
- Members
- 1 134 messages
gkillerrin wrote...
lol i know rightalickar wrote...
wtfgkillerrin wrote...
lol this is probally the most random thing i've found so far
ugh
#68766
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:01
Gerudan
-
- Members
- 1 640 messages
Phil725 wrote...
Well may not have been fully renegade, but it definitely wasn't the most paragon choice of words in either situation.
Probably because she is just so annoyed by both of them.
#68767
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:01
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
-
- Guests
she force crushed the other.alickar wrote...
krogan has 2 brains.,..Darth Cheesecake wrote...
*alickar continues to rant until a small knife like red lightsabre stabs through his head*alickar wrote...
i will not stay quiet u anger the gods!!!Darth Cheesecake wrote...
Silence alickar you will anger the new dark lord of awesome...Darth Tali!!!alickar wrote...
weird mini argumentDarth Cheesecake wrote...
You know that "suprise" move she had for you, she practiced on me:devil:Terrorfex wrote...
Gerudan wrote...
Phil725 wrote...
Tali definitely acts much more renegade than most here admit, but she is still heavily paragon.
Only against Geth or which situations do you mean?
She's a renegade in my bedroom ... <3
Darth Tali: I find your lack of faith disturbing.
#68768
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:01
knight5923
-
- Members
- 3 656 messages
........When did this become Asari Justicars 3.0?
*hears Tali crying in the corner*
*hears Tali crying in the corner*
#68769
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:01
danteshepard
-
- Members
- 2 007 messages
KEELAH! JUST STOP WITH THE FUKKEN PICS!
#68770
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:02
alickar
-
- Members
- 3 031 messages
*turns into a husk krogan*Darth Cheesecake wrote...
she force crushed the other.alickar wrote...
krogan has 2 brains.,..Darth Cheesecake wrote...
*alickar continues to rant until a small knife like red lightsabre stabs through his head*alickar wrote...
i will not stay quiet u anger the gods!!!Darth Cheesecake wrote...
Silence alickar you will anger the new dark lord of awesome...Darth Tali!!!alickar wrote...
weird mini argumentDarth Cheesecake wrote...
You know that "suprise" move she had for you, she practiced on me:devil:Terrorfex wrote...
Gerudan wrote...
Phil725 wrote...
Tali definitely acts much more renegade than most here admit, but she is still heavily paragon.
Only against Geth or which situations do you mean?
She's a renegade in my bedroom ... <3
Darth Tali: I find your lack of faith disturbing.
#68771
Guest_TGFKAMAdmaX_*
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:03
Guest_TGFKAMAdmaX_*
Guest_TGFKAMAdmaX_*
-
- Guests
i agree...merely a question...The_KFD_Case wrote...
TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...
good points all around...but didnt samara say that "the code compelled her to save them"?The_KFD_Case wrote...
As Samara points out the Asari justicars are similar to the Council Spectres, though Shepard is correct in pointing out that the Spectres (at least in theory) have some oversight from the Council itself. As with the Spectres so too do I think it is with the justicars: While the justicars are obligated to punish the wicked there may still be some leeway as to which of the wicked they go after first and foremost. Example: Samara on Omega comments on the rampant abuses on Omega, yet she does not stray from her oath to Shepard's mission. Also, before swearing the oath to Shepard, she once had an encounter with a Turian Spectre - she chose to let him escape because he deliberately endangered the lives of many innocents. She chose to save them instead of killing him indicating that she is not without the ability to think for herself even while adhering to the code. If that is the case for her then perhaps some of the other justicars act similarly, just as different Spectres act differently too (i.e. some arrest criminals while others simply kill them where they stand)?
As for justicars not being above reproach I concur. What evidence do we have that if any justicars have gone rogue that they haven't committed suicide? Perhaps some have, perhaps some haven't. If some haven't I strongly suspect that the code would compel other justicars to hunt their former colleague down. We simply do not have enough detailed information about all things justicar to ascertain these things with empirical confidence.
I don't recall, yet if it did then that would be further proof that the code is not only concerned about punishing the wicked. I do recall Samara commenting on Illium that if need be she would kill every person that got in the way of her mission even though she would take no pleasure in doing so. That being the case, taken in combination with her act to save the innocents from death and let the Spectre get away, it implies that she is not without the capacity to render decisions for herself, which in turn implies that she is engaging in lucid cognitive processes.
#68772
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:03
alickar
-
- Members
- 3 031 messages
agrees with knightknight5923 wrote...
........When did this become Asari Justicars 3.0?
*hears Tali crying in the corner*
#68773
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:03
gkillerrin
-
- Members
- 2 888 messages
ohh if your mad with tali pics, then you dont want to go back a few hundred pagesdanteshepard wrote...
KEELAH! JUST STOP WITH THE FUKKEN PICS!
#68774
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:03
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
Guest_Darth Cheesecake_*
-
- Guests
All shall bow before Darth Tali as she destroys the Republ-I mean the Council and sets up a new Tali Empire with Shepard at her side!!!
#68775
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 01:03
danteshepard
-
- Members
- 2 007 messages
DARTH WHELP SNIP YOUR QUOTES!alickar wrote...
*turns into a husk krogan*Darth Cheesecake wrote...
she force crushed the other.alickar wrote...
krogan has 2 brains.,..Darth Cheesecake wrote...
*alickar continues to rant until a small knife like red lightsabre stabs through his head*alickar wrote...
i will not stay quiet u anger the gods!!!
Darth Tali: I find your lack of faith disturbing.
