137512 réponses à ce sujet

[Pauravi]

Archonsg wrote...

The paragon in me sees the Geth in a nobler light, far wiser then the Quarians, far more willing to give up of themselves for the greater good. Final battle will see the Geth dying to protect their creators, and in the end, willingly give up Rannoch, handing it back to a stunned Quarian people asking only to be left untroubled as they leave their home world to find another world to live in. Perhaps leaving Legion as an ambassador.

Indeed, I think that the Quarians should be proud of what they created.  A race... no, a being, really, that seeks only understanding, harmony, and the wholeness of itself.  If only they knew what the Geth really had become.  I actually think that Tali's data that you gave her way back in ME1 could be instrumental in showing the Quarians their true nature and getting people behind the idea of peace.  Also, fortunately for the Geth they don't need or want a homeworld -- they already live in space stations and on asteroids.  It is efficient   But yes, I could see this happening.  It would be a beautiful resolution.

The renegade in me though, well, he's a ******.

[VettoRyouzou]

spryforadeadguy wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

spryforadeadguy wrote...

With the Heretics basically dealt with and a more-or-less friendly geth on the Normandy, I don't see why the quarians and the geth couldn't open up a diplomatic rapport. I doubt it would be an instant fix, but at least they'd be on the right (and non-destructive) path.

Would I like this to happen, yes, Do I think it will? No.. Both sides have done allot horrid things to the other since after the first shot was fired so to say. Then again who knows, but I doubt will ever see the peace happen during Me3 we may see the seeds of it planted thou.

Hurt feelings will most definitely impede any diplomacy at first, but it'll be almost exclusively quarian hurt feelings, I believe.  If Legion is indicative of his brethren, then I can't see the geth being unwilling to cooperate.  I don't see Rannoch changing hands anytime soon, but concessions and reparations toward both sides would definitely be feasible.  Perhaps the geth would be willing to provide some rudimentary aid to the Migrant Fleet, or even give them a planet within their territory (possibly Rannoch, but like I said, doubtful).

Doubtful, The most I can see happening is a halt fire signed between the two races, we also can't forget the geth are also seen as a treat by more then the quarians so we have to remember what ramification could come from with the idea of quarians working with geth, it may make many of the other races uneasy and even more hostile toward quarians then they are now.

Not saying it won't happen but this isn't going to be a happily ever after were everyone goes " oh this was just a Great big misunderstand!" and laugh over a cup of Coffee/oil. Case even after peace is finally made between quarians and geth it the whole patching thing up between the other races that may be an issue.

[Archonsg]

spryforadeadguy wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

spryforadeadguy wrote...

With the Heretics basically dealt with and a more-or-less friendly geth on the Normandy, I don't see why the quarians and the geth couldn't open up a diplomatic rapport. I doubt it would be an instant fix, but at least they'd be on the right (and non-destructive) path.

Would I like this to happen, yes, Do I think it will? No.. Both sides have done allot horrid things to the other since after the first shot was fired so to say. Then again who knows, but I doubt will ever see the peace happen during Me3 we may see the seeds of it planted thou.

Hurt feelings will most definitely impede any diplomacy at first, but it'll be almost exclusively quarian hurt feelings, I believe.  If Legion is indicative of his brethren, then I can't see the geth being unwilling to cooperate.  I don't see Rannoch changing hands anytime soon, but concessions and reparations toward both sides would definitely be feasible.  Perhaps the geth would be willing to provide some rudimentary aid to the Migrant Fleet, or even give them a planet within their territory (possibly Rannoch, but like I said, doubtful).

Why not?
It depends on the "logic" that the geth will use.

Geth does not need Rannoch to survive, Creators do.
Geth wants peace (paragon path) geth prefer not to destroy creators
Creators will never acept geth on Rannoch therefore only Geth or Creators can be on Rannoch
Geth does not *need* Rannoch.
Consensus based on Shepard Commanders code suggest possibilty of open dialouge and peace if Geth cede Rannoch to Creators
Geth Cede Rannoch to Creators logical conclusion for hope of peace.

Just because 1+1=2  is as valid as 2+1=3

Modifié par Archonsg, 15 mars 2010 - 12:41 .

[Godur]

runescapeguy9 wrote...
When in doubt, click paragon

I would rather have a mission in where charm/intimidate could be used as powerful tools, but certainly not be the "I win" buttons they are in most of ME2. That way the player will actually have to think of what he says and what information to give.

[Xandurpein]

VettoRyouzou wrote...

spryforadeadguy wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

spryforadeadguy wrote...

With the Heretics basically dealt with and a more-or-less friendly geth on the Normandy, I don't see why the quarians and the geth couldn't open up a diplomatic rapport. I doubt it would be an instant fix, but at least they'd be on the right (and non-destructive) path.

Would I like this to happen, yes, Do I think it will? No.. Both sides have done allot horrid things to the other since after the first shot was fired so to say. Then again who knows, but I doubt will ever see the peace happen during Me3 we may see the seeds of it planted thou.

Hurt feelings will most definitely impede any diplomacy at first, but it'll be almost exclusively quarian hurt feelings, I believe.  If Legion is indicative of his brethren, then I can't see the geth being unwilling to cooperate.  I don't see Rannoch changing hands anytime soon, but concessions and reparations toward both sides would definitely be feasible.  Perhaps the geth would be willing to provide some rudimentary aid to the Migrant Fleet, or even give them a planet within their territory (possibly Rannoch, but like I said, doubtful).

Doubtful, The most I can see happening is a halt fire signed between the two races, we also can't forget the geth are also seen as a treat by more then the quarians so we have to remember what ramification could come from with the idea of quarians working with geth, it may make many of the other races uneasy and even more hostile toward quarians then they are now.

Not saying it won't happen but this isn't going to be a happily ever after were everyone goes " oh this was just a Great big misunderstand!" and laugh over a cup of Coffee/oil. Case even after peace is finally made between quarians and geth it the whole patching thing up between the other races that may be an issue.

Like Israeli and palestinians sorting out their differences over who should own Israel/Palestine. It may take a bit more than just a cup of tea to settle. Not that I don't think Paragon Shepard can pull some awesome speech to help, but still...

[VettoRyouzou]

Archonsg wrote...

spryforadeadguy wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

spryforadeadguy wrote...

With the Heretics basically dealt with and a more-or-less friendly geth on the Normandy, I don't see why the quarians and the geth couldn't open up a diplomatic rapport. I doubt it would be an instant fix, but at least they'd be on the right (and non-destructive) path.

Would I like this to happen, yes, Do I think it will? No.. Both sides have done allot horrid things to the other since after the first shot was fired so to say. Then again who knows, but I doubt will ever see the peace happen during Me3 we may see the seeds of it planted thou.

Hurt feelings will most definitely impede any diplomacy at first, but it'll be almost exclusively quarian hurt feelings, I believe.  If Legion is indicative of his brethren, then I can't see the geth being unwilling to cooperate.  I don't see Rannoch changing hands anytime soon, but concessions and reparations toward both sides would definitely be feasible.  Perhaps the geth would be willing to provide some rudimentary aid to the Migrant Fleet, or even give them a planet within their territory (possibly Rannoch, but like I said, doubtful).

Why not?
It depends on the "logic" that the geth will use.

Geth does not need Rannoch to survive, Creators do.
Geth wants peace (paragon path) geth prefer not to destroy creators
Creators will never acept geth on Rannoch therefore only Geth or Creators can be on Rannoch
Geth does not *need* Rannoch.
Consensus based on Shepard Commanders code suggest possibilty of open dialouge and peace if Geth cede Rannoch to Creators
Geth Cede Rannoch to Creators logical conclusion for hope of peace.

Just because 1+1=2  is as valid as 2+1=3

But Organic life isn't as simple as 1+1=2.

You can clearly see the quarians are conflicted over geth, some want to destroy them all, other wanna try peace, and hell a few bunch wanna enslave them again, and geth are not as dumb as they use to be studding organic life would quickly teach them over the idea of betrayal and back stabbing.

You give some one an inch they will take a mile, and while they may not need Rannoch it still the center point in which all geth come from, and thus is someplace the geth even all else fails may fall back to..

Really in the end it just not that simple.

Modifié par VettoRyouzou, 15 mars 2010 - 12:48 .

[Archonsg]

Xandurpein wrote...

Like Israeli and palestinians sorting out their differences over who should own Israel/Palestine. It may take a bit more than just a cup of tea to settle. Not that I don't think Paragon Shepard can pull some awesome speech to help, but still...

In regards to the Geth, I don't know if Bioware is gonna pull a "twist" on us. But it is possible that Legion in his study of (paragon) Shepard and in the wake of his success against the collectors could influence the Geth to accept some of what they will equate as "Shepard's code".
Paragon Shepard would try to sue for peace, talks before bloodshed and where possible, put others first before his own needs. Doing so they concluded killed not just an old machine but one of the more powerful of the old machine's minions. Proof that his "code" is superior.

It is possible that the Geth is "learning" from Shepard via Legion and thus in this crucial point, offer the olive branch that is Rannoch. It is logical no?

Of course, the flip side (renegade) would be just as valid for the Geth where might is right, strength before weakness, its better to shoot first, ask questions later and above all else, make damn sure you stack things your way to be on top.

Paragon / Renegade "path" codes, both just a valid depending on your interactions with Legion.

[spryforadeadguy]

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Why not?
It depends on the "logic" that the geth will use.

Geth does not need Rannoch to survive, Creators do.
Geth wants peace (paragon path) geth prefer not to destroy creators
Creators will never acept geth on Rannoch therefore only Geth or Creators can be on Rannoch
Geth does not *need* Rannoch.
Consensus based on Shepard Commanders code suggest possibilty of open dialouge and peace if Geth cede Rannoch to Creators
Geth Cede Rannoch to Creators logical conclusion for hope of peace.

Just because 1+1=2  is as valid as 2+1=3

But Organic life isn't as simple as 1+1=2.

You can clearly see the quarians are conflicted over geth, some want to destroy them all, other wanna try peace, and hell a few bunch wanna enslave them again, and geth are not as dumb as they use to be studding organic life would quickly teach them over the idea of betrayal and back stabbing.

You give some one an inch they will take a mile, and while they may not need Rannoch it still the center point in which all geth come from, and thus is someplace the geth even all else fails may fall back to..

Really in the end it just not that simple.

I'm not saying they'll immediately come to an understanding and that everyone will suddenly have warm feelings for eachother (especially with people like Admiral Xen about), but I think, given enough time, peace could and would develop.  The geth may offer up a few minor concessions as acts of good faith, prompting the quarians to respond in kind.  Of course, the geth wouldn't be complete pushovers and start handing over territory and resources left and right; they aren't stupid, they would surely realise the possibility of treachery from some of the more...disgruntled quarians.  The whole process would take years, maybe even decades, to even begin to reach a point that could be considered "resolution."

[Archonsg]

VettoRyouzou wrote...

But Organic life isn't as simple as 1+1=2.

You can clearly see the quarians are conflicted over geth, some want to destroy them all, other wanna try peace, and hell a few bunch wanna enslave them again, and geth are not as dumb as they use to be studding organic life would quickly teach them over the idea of betrayal and back stabbing.

You give some one an inch they will take a mile, and while they may not need Rannoch it still the center point in which all geth come from, and thus is someplace the geth even all else fails may fall back to..

Really in the end it just not that simple.

As Shepard once told Garrus, (or something close to this) "You cannot predict what others will do. But you can choose what *you* will do. That is all that matters in the end. (paragon path)

The Geth *can* live anywhere, the Quarians can't or won't.
If the Geth were to follow Shepard's paragon path as an example, it is *possible* they might do this in hopes of creating a peace.
At this point, I'd see Paragon Shepard hitting the "paragon" interupt / "i win" choice to convince the Quarian people to at least give peace a chance. It might work, but without even trying, then the Quarian people are doomed to fail and die as a race. Or something like that.

Modifié par Archonsg, 15 mars 2010 - 01:02 .

[vykvyper1]

Good morning guys... and goodbye. I gotta go to the lab. be back tonight!

[Pauravi]

Xandurpein wrote...

Like Israeli and palestinians sorting out their differences over who should own Israel/Palestine. It may take a bit more than just a cup of tea to settle. Not that I don't think Paragon Shepard can pull some awesome speech to help, but still...

I don't think that this is an apt analogy, because the Geth do not live on Rannoch for their own benefit.  They make no special claim to it, whereas the Palestinians and Israelis both do.  If Legion is to be believed, the only reason they are there at all is to take care of it and maintain it, perhaps even specifically for the benefit of their creators.  The Geth largely live in space stations and take resources from asteroids, anyway.

Modifié par Pauravi, 15 mars 2010 - 01:06 .

[Archonsg]

spryforadeadguy wrote...

I'm not saying they'll immediately come to an understanding and that everyone will suddenly have warm feelings for eachother (especially with people like Admiral Xen about), but I think, given enough time, peace could and would develop.  The geth may offer up a few minor concessions as acts of good faith, prompting the quarians to respond in kind.  Of course, the geth wouldn't be complete pushovers and start handing over territory and resources left and right; they aren't stupid, they would surely realise the possibility of treachery from some of the more...disgruntled quarians.  The whole process would take years, maybe even decades, to even begin to reach a point that could be considered "resolution."

*Bingo*
They don't have to give up *all* worlds. Just Rannoch for a start while they look for more "remote" (read as far from Quarians / other Organics) as possible while still be able to maintian contact.
Eventually they will cede back the other worlds, but only after peace has been achieved.
Its the first step that counts.

With so much emphasis put on playing the game and "following" a certain path in the ME world, I can't but help feel that Bioware in ME3 will take all that you have done in the past two games, and now use that as 'leverage" against how people are influenced by your past actions. The "paragon" path leading to a utopic ending, where everyone sings kumbaya around the galactic campire of reaper wreckage, or the funeral dirge of the Renegade's path where the reapers are destroyed at the cost of perhaps one or more galactic races  (Quarians, Geth, Krogans and a good number of council race members) putting humanity firmly in charge as the new Imperium.

But that's just me.

[Divulse456]

Good morning guys. Keeping the Tali love alive. Think we'll hit the 3000 mark today?

[AventuroLegendary]

OMG. everyone is asleep. I get this guy to wake them up

[timedrake32]

Divulse456 wrote...

Good morning guys. Keeping the Tali love alive. Think we'll hit the 3000 mark today?

i hope so
hey guys i'm back miss anything good?

[Shazzammer2]

LegendaryAvenger wrote...

OMG. everyone is asleep. I get this guy to wake them up

Holy crap...he sounds exactly like my old drill instructor when I was in bootcamp. Ugh, shivers up my spine...

[Shazzammer2]

anyways i see the forums are a little slow right now. Bye folks, ill be reading up on some fanfics.

[Divulse456]

Shazzammer2 wrote...

anyways i see the forums are a little slow right now. Bye folks, ill be reading up on some fanfics.

Heh, wish I could do the same.  If I were not at work I'd be writing.  Oh well, I'll have some time tonight.  Keelah se'lai everyone.

[Pauravi]

Archonsg wrote...

With so much emphasis put on playing the game and "following" a certain path in the ME world, I can't but help feel that Bioware in ME3 will take all that you have done in the past two games, and now use that as 'leverage" against how people are influenced by your past actions. The "paragon" path leading to a utopic ending, where everyone sings kumbaya around the galactic campire of reaper wreckage, or the funeral dirge of the Renegade's path where the reapers are destroyed at the cost of perhaps one or more galactic races  (Quarians, Geth, Krogans and a good number of council race members) putting humanity firmly in charge as the new Imperium.

Seems likely.  The Renegade path generally has a human-centric agenda, and the Paragon path an inclusive one.  If you get through all 3 games making good decisions along those lines (perhaps not necessarily 100% in either direction), I think they'll lead you to the ends you were seeking.

The number of significant decisions to be made, though, and the fairly wide variety of opinions on them, means that it is plausible that we are going to have some pretty divergent endings.  If you are determined enough to screw everything up, they MAY even have a "Reapers-win" ending

[The Governator]

Keeping the Tali love alive.



Keelah Se'lai everyone.

[apotheosic]

geez guys, break out the coffee, this thread is so slow in the mornings.

i wonder if tali likes coffee... or tea. or what do quarians drink? seriously, when the whole crew sits down for dinner, what does tali do? it must be darn expensive buying rations for everyone on that ship. you have to buy turian food, and human food, and salarian food, and asari food (although they probly arent picky), and then i assume quarians require some sort of sterile feeding tubes or something. mess sergeant has a harder job than he lets on.

[Xandurpein]

Pauravi wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Like Israeli and palestinians sorting out their differences over who should own Israel/Palestine. It may take a bit more than just a cup of tea to settle. Not that I don't think Paragon Shepard can pull some awesome speech to help, but still...

I don't think that this is an apt analogy, because the Geth do not live on Rannoch for their own benefit.  They make no special claim to it, whereas the Palestinians and Israelis both do.  If Legion is to be believed, the only reason they are there at all is to take care of it and maintain it, perhaps even specifically for the benefit of their creators.  The Geth largely live in space stations and take resources from asteroids, anyway.

I agree really. Did analogy works reasonably well for the Quarian end of the conflict. There are obvious similarities between the Quarians and zionism, or at least to me. But the Geth are in a completly diffrent situation than the plaestinians, which is good as it means there is a real chance of a paragon solution.