137512 réponses à ce sujet

[sihill90]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Gerudan wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...
They actually seem more tolerant and enlightened than many of the organic races.

If the Quarians would want to, they could simply settle back to their homeworld, as long, as they would do it peacefully. 

Quite possibly, though the Geth will need some sort of convincing pledge from the Quarians that they won't attack them on sight as they have had a habit of doing 100% of the every encounter where they thought they could defeat the Geth (the other times they've quickly run away).

That's exactly what Legion says when you take him on Tali's loyalty mission, and after the trial talk with Qwib-Qwib admiral. Something like "we have no problem with peaceful resolution, but we need more data"

[Wally2905]

valttu wrote...

Yionel wrote...

valttu wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

vykvyper1 wrote...

Yionel wrote...

be careful with this... It has enough cute to destroy the universe

Agreed!

Awwwwwwwwww I love dat little cute Tali..... Who drew those? 

http://silvergriffon...hibis-100037434

Dat guy is my new hero!

For the love of God...

I need to have those...somebody please make them

[NuclearBuddha]

Lareit wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

I thought it was tough because the choice seems morally ambiguous.  I mean, brainwashing usually isn't in the paragon playbook.  It seemed almost more correct to destroy the heretic:  it was their choice and they get to live with the consequences.  Legion even seemed to suggest that this was the right course of action.  Then again, there's the united geth vs. reapers issue.

Here's how I decided:  the last time I talked to Legion about it, he said his internal vote was 573 for rewrite, 571 for destroy.  Rewrite it was!

That mission was fascinating.  ME1 reveals basically nothing about the geth.

Actually the vote has me concerned about Legion and the geth. They believe all intelligent life should self determinate...but decide to vote in favor of rewriting the heretics(even if they didn't reach full consensus) because it was convienent.

What I'm curious about is seeing what the new re-integrated geth are like.  My biggest concern is that they're going to learn subterfuge from the reintegrated heretics.  Remember how surprised Legion was that the heretics were spying on the true geth?  Additionally, the heretics are going to bring back a lot of knowledge about fighting organics.

[DrakeforBake]

I can't help but think that rewriting them doesn't unite them. Legion tells you afterwards that they will think about what they've done and them rejoin.



But Illium reports mention that there was a sudden massing of Geth across several regions.



Me thinks that just because you reset the math in their heads, doesn't mean they can't still come to the same conclusion. 2 is less than 3 yes. But 1 is less than 2. I have a feeling the Geth might suddenly develop personalities based on their conflicting experiences.



Or worse(better?) cause a schism between the two forcing a Geth civil war. The heretics might only be a small fraction of the total Geth but that doesn't represent the total platforms they can field.



Also, the translators in Mass Effect always use the closest approximation of what a speaker is saying. The Geth called them Heretics. That's a pretty harsh word for "We are all Geth except some guys that decided to go it on their own".



Legion has always had a shady background.

[valttu]

Wally2905 wrote...

valttu wrote...

Yionel wrote...

valttu wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

vykvyper1 wrote...

Yionel wrote...

be careful with this... It has enough cute to destroy the universe

Agreed!

Awwwwwwwwww I love dat little cute Tali..... Who drew those? 

http://silvergriffon...hibis-100037434

Dat guy is my new hero!

For the love of God...

I need to have those...somebody please make them

Me too... MOOOAARRRR LITTLE CUTE TALI PICTUREESSSS!!!! :wub:

[DrakeforBake]

Quote walls are breaking MA FORUMS!

[valttu]

DrakeforBake wrote...

Quote walls are breaking MA FORUMS!

...sorry... ...it's just dat ma love got ouf of hand...

[DarchAngelDavid]

Wow what kind of a Tali lover am I. Network went down at home for a few days and then the thread goes down and 3.0 comes up without me even knowing. Oh well my love for Tali is strong and I will play catch up. I will be scanning in the pencils for my Tali pic tonight so expect to see them some time tomorrow morning and the full colored art about a week after that.

[Lareit]

DrakeforBake wrote...

I can't help but think that rewriting them doesn't unite them. Legion tells you afterwards that they will think about what they've done and them rejoin.

But Illium reports mention that there was a sudden massing of Geth across several regions.

Me thinks that just because you reset the math in their heads, doesn't mean they can't still come to the same conclusion. 2 is less than 3 yes. But 1 is less than 2. I have a feeling the Geth might suddenly develop personalities based on their conflicting experiences.

Or worse(better?) cause a schism between the two forcing a Geth civil war. The heretics might only be a small fraction of the total Geth but that doesn't represent the total platforms they can field.

Also, the translators in Mass Effect always use the closest approximation of what a speaker is saying. The Geth called them Heretics. That's a pretty harsh word for "We are all Geth except some guys that decided to go it on their own".

Legion has always had a shady background.

I agree
I like legion, I trust him, I also like and trust Edi....but I also can't deny it would be very easy for them to have some logic code built into them that would have them stab me in the back at some point due to some feature of their programming.

AI in general are an intelligence so alien, organics really can't understand how they think. Geth are alien even among other AI's

They might not be devious, but their motivations can't truly be trusted.

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lareit wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

I thought it was tough because the choice seems morally ambiguous.  I mean, brainwashing usually isn't in the paragon playbook.  It seemed almost more correct to destroy the heretic:  it was their choice and they get to live with the consequences.  Legion even seemed to suggest that this was the right course of action.  Then again, there's the united geth vs. reapers issue.

Here's how I decided:  the last time I talked to Legion about it, he said his internal vote was 573 for rewrite, 571 for destroy.  Rewrite it was!

That mission was fascinating.  ME1 reveals basically nothing about the geth.

Actually the vote has me concerned about Legion and the geth. They believe all intelligent life should self determinate...but decide to vote in favor of rewriting the heretics(even if they didn't reach full consensus) because it was convienent.

What I'm curious about is seeing what the new re-integrated geth are like.  My biggest concern is that they're going to learn subterfuge from the reintegrated heretics.  Remember how surprised Legion was that the heretics were spying on the true geth?  Additionally, the heretics are going to bring back a lot of knowledge about fighting organics.

I was thinking the same thing while playing through that mission just a few minutes ago. That's also part of the reason why I just don't feel comfortable with rewriting them. Not saying that I'd feel much better about killing them.
Either way, I'm glad that I can just replay ME2 and make the other decision, if rewriting turns out to be bad in ME3. I'd hate to have to make that kind of decision without the ability to make it undone.

[herbie dog]

Hi again!

Just had my lunch

Did I miss anything important?

[Wally2905]

DrakeforBake wrote...

Also, the translators in Mass Effect always use the closest approximation of what a speaker is saying. The Geth called them Heretics. That's a pretty harsh word for "We are all Geth except some guys that decided to go it on their own"..

But that's just the point, they didn't decide to go "on their own". They decided to throw away the beliefs they held until then and they accepted others that were in (stark) contrast.

Most notably, geth believe in self determination, while heretics want their future to be determined by the reapers.

[Yionel]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lareit wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

I thought it was tough because the choice seems morally ambiguous.  I mean, brainwashing usually isn't in the paragon playbook.  It seemed almost more correct to destroy the heretic:  it was their choice and they get to live with the consequences.  Legion even seemed to suggest that this was the right course of action.  Then again, there's the united geth vs. reapers issue.

Here's how I decided:  the last time I talked to Legion about it, he said his internal vote was 573 for rewrite, 571 for destroy.  Rewrite it was!

That mission was fascinating.  ME1 reveals basically nothing about the geth.

Actually the vote has me concerned about Legion and the geth. They believe all intelligent life should self determinate...but decide to vote in favor of rewriting the heretics(even if they didn't reach full consensus) because it was convienent.

What I'm curious about is seeing what the new re-integrated geth are like.  My biggest concern is that they're going to learn subterfuge from the reintegrated heretics.  Remember how surprised Legion was that the heretics were spying on the true geth?  Additionally, the heretics are going to bring back a lot of knowledge about fighting organics.

I was thinking the same thing while playing through that mission just a few minutes ago. That's also part of the reason why I just don't feel comfortable with rewriting them. Not saying that I'd feel much better about killing them.
Either way, I'm glad that I can just replay ME2 and make the other decision, if rewriting turns out to be bad in ME3. I'd hate to have to make that kind of decision without the ability to make it undone.

I think that rewriting the geth being good or bad gonna be up to shepard's ability to convince the geth and teh quarians to work togheter..this is a typical bioware trap choice..they show you a potentialy long term good decision..and make you hesitate with "probable" short term consequences...in most case its a way to trick the player to think its bad thing to rewrite the geth cause of how you feel about there past..but im 99% sure its gonna pay off in ME3

[NuclearBuddha]

Lareit wrote...

I agree
I like legion, I trust him, I also like and trust Edi....but I also can't deny it would be very easy for them to have some logic code built into them that would have them stab me in the back at some point due to some feature of their programming.

AI in general are an intelligence so alien, organics really can't understand how they think. Geth are alien even among other AI's

They might not be devious, but their motivations can't truly be trusted.

Legion concerns me not because he might have some sort of traitor code built in, but because he is essentially a stalker.  And not a clutzy and lovable stalker like Conrad Verner.  He's the kind of stalker that would shoot someone in the head to be just like his hero.

The thing that worries me about the geth is the possibility that the "future" they're building might not have a place in it for organics.  Legion makes it sound reasonable with his "don't involve yourself with us, and we won't involve ourselves with you" but the catch there is that the geth don't care if "their future" is unpalatable to others.

[The_KFD_Case]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Gerudan wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...
They actually seem more tolerant and enlightened than many of the organic races.

If the Quarians would want to, they could simply settle back to their homeworld, as long, as they would do it peacefully. 

Quite possibly, though the Geth will need some sort of convincing pledge from the Quarians that they won't attack them on sight as they have had a habit of doing 100% of the every encounter where they thought they could defeat the Geth (the other times they've quickly run away).

I think the geth need to chill.  The quarians are almost no threat to them.  If the geth packed up and got out of the system, they would have nothing whatsoever to fear from them.  The quarians would have their hands too full trying to resettle to think about looking for revenge. 

Which kind of makes me wonder where the disconnect is, or if someone is leaving out part of the truth.

The Geth have been "chill". Once the Morning War was over they have been content to be left alone and respect the right of all sapient species to decide their own future. They will however defend themselves when attacked (which is what triggered the Morning War). Self-defence is an almost universally recognized right amongst organics but apparently some have trouble applying that concept to the Geth because they are synthetic (implying that they don't fully comprehend the intelligence of the Geth). The "disconnect" likely arises from the fact that the Quarians have without fail attacked the Geth any time they thought they could win the battle, and when they didn't think they could win they would run away. That makes it hard to establish a rapport. To add to the confusion there were also the Heretics which looked like the Geth but were actively bent on destroying all organic life. Not being able to tell the difference has undoubtedly not helped the Quarians in dealing with them.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 22 février 2010 - 02:48 .

[NuclearBuddha]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

I was thinking the same thing while playing through that mission just a few minutes ago. That's also part of the reason why I just don't feel comfortable with rewriting them. Not saying that I'd feel much better about killing them.
Either way, I'm glad that I can just replay ME2 and make the other decision, if rewriting turns out to be bad in ME3. I'd hate to have to make that kind of decision without the ability to make it undone.

Changing history is for sissies.  Real men live with the consequences.  If I'm going to suffer for ditching Liara, I may as well suffer for whatever my decision with the geth leads to.

(If it's a real ugly result, I reserve the right to become a sissy at a later date.)

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

Yionel wrote...
I think that rewriting the geth being good or bad gonna be up to shepard's ability to convince the geth and teh quarians to work togheter..this is a typical bioware trap choice..they show you a potentialy long term good decision..and make you hesitate with "probable" short term consequences...in most case its a way to trick the player to think its bad thing to rewrite the geth cause of how you feel about there past..but im 99% sure its gonna pay off in ME3

I'm also "pretty" sure that it's the right decision, but not even remotely as sure as I am about every other decision in the game.

Either way, it's time for me to get my crew abducted by the Collectors, and take them back before they even realize what's happening.

[valttu]

Gotta go play some floorball. Keep up the love!! <33



Can't stay to see the 300th page. HAVE FUN!!!



Tali FTW!!! <333

[The_KFD_Case]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

What I'm curious about is seeing what the new re-integrated geth are like.  My biggest concern is that they're going to learn subterfuge from the reintegrated heretics.  Remember how surprised Legion was that the heretics were spying on the true geth?  Additionally, the heretics are going to bring back a lot of knowledge about fighting organics.

Consider a potential positive: The Heretics have hands-on experience dealing with a Reaper and Reaper tech. That could perhaps be used to find a weakness in the approaching Reaper fleet (and it was one of the reasons that made me choose to reprogram the Heretics rather than destroy them). We've got bigger fish to fry than the Heretics or the Geth, and we could sure use their help. The Geth's ability to provide armies would be almost unparalled given the way they can log in and out of platforms without needing training. As long as the hubs aren't destroyed the Geth effectively take no casualties.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 22 février 2010 - 03:04 .

[The_KFD_Case]

DrakeforBake wrote...

I can't help but think that rewriting them doesn't unite them. Legion tells you afterwards that they will think about what they've done and them rejoin.

But Illium reports mention that there was a sudden massing of Geth across several regions.

Me thinks that just because you reset the math in their heads, doesn't mean they can't still come to the same conclusion. 2 is less than 3 yes. But 1 is less than 2. I have a feeling the Geth might suddenly develop personalities based on their conflicting experiences.

Or worse(better?) cause a schism between the two forcing a Geth civil war. The heretics might only be a small fraction of the total Geth but that doesn't represent the total platforms they can field.

Also, the translators in Mass Effect always use the closest approximation of what a speaker is saying. The Geth called them Heretics. That's a pretty harsh word for "We are all Geth except some guys that decided to go it on their own".

Legion has always had a shady background.

From an emotionally tainted and historically biased background, yes. If we look just at the logic of Legion's comments not so much. If you don't romance Jack and take in to consideration Legion's actions that help keep you alive on the IFF mission I would, in real life, probably be just as inclined to trust Legion with my life as Jack, if not more so (she is a mass-scale murderer afterall).

[NuclearBuddha]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Consider a potential positive: The Heretics have hands-on experience dealing with a Reaper and Reaper tech. That could perhaps be used to find a weakness in the approaching Reaper fleet (and it was one of the reasons that made me choose to reprogram the Heretics rather than destroy them). We've got bigger fish to fry than the Heretics or the Geth, and we could sure use their help. The Geth's ability to provide armies would be almost unparalled given the way they can log in and out of platforms without needing training. As long as the hubs aren't destroyed the Geth effectively take no casualties.

I agree with what you're saying, but I fear it would go both ways.  The Reapers probably know the geth forward and backward by now.

Something I also wonder about:  are the Reapers basically done with the geth?  There didn't seem to be any coordination between the heretics and the Collectors.  Did the geth have their shot and failed when Sovereign was killed and now they've been discarded?

[The_KFD_Case]

Lareit wrote...

DrakeforBake wrote...

I can't help but think that rewriting them doesn't unite them. Legion tells you afterwards that they will think about what they've done and them rejoin.

But Illium reports mention that there was a sudden massing of Geth across several regions.

Me thinks that just because you reset the math in their heads, doesn't mean they can't still come to the same conclusion. 2 is less than 3 yes. But 1 is less than 2. I have a feeling the Geth might suddenly develop personalities based on their conflicting experiences.

Or worse(better?) cause a schism between the two forcing a Geth civil war. The heretics might only be a small fraction of the total Geth but that doesn't represent the total platforms they can field.

Also, the translators in Mass Effect always use the closest approximation of what a speaker is saying. The Geth called them Heretics. That's a pretty harsh word for "We are all Geth except some guys that decided to go it on their own".

Legion has always had a shady background.

I agree
I like legion, I trust him, I also like and trust Edi....but I also can't deny it would be very easy for them to have some logic code built into them that would have them stab me in the back at some point due to some feature of their programming.

AI in general are an intelligence so alien, organics really can't understand how they think. Geth are alien even among other AI's

They might not be devious, but their motivations can't truly be trusted.

Agreed, and yet the same can just as easily be said of organics whom are frequently disproportionately influenced by wildly fluctuating emotions. From an outside objective point of view organic emotions are far more volatile than programmed logic.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 22 février 2010 - 02:58 .

[RevanKun123]

herbie dog wrote...

Hi again!
Just had my lunch
Did I miss anything important?

Let's see...

Mothbanquet and KFD were being wicked.
The tali gift about all the caffeine she took.
The chibi Tali draw.
The legion talk.
I have died again.
And how the heck is it even possible that people are still reading parts of my fanfiction sequel?

[DrakeforBake]

You're forgetting one very important thing in that thought process reaperredeemer. The Geth Heretics are almost the same as husks. They've been forcefully mutated into a reaper's will made manifest.



I'll give an example of what I'm getting at. A woman has been stabbed by a dragon's tooth and been completely converted into a husk. This husk will run around slaughtering anything in it's way but before that it was a wife of 15 years and a mother of 2. You then come across an item that will rewrite the husk reverting it's cognitive functions back to that of the woman that was lost. Fully allowing it to become human once again.



If you could give back what was lost, from a raving stark crazy monster, to return them back to their original way, would you do it? It's not brainwashing in the traditional sense. They've already been brainwashed, that's what caused the error in the code. Is it really so cruel to remove the damage that was done to them to allow them to think for themselves again?



That is why it's the Paragon option, that which is not dead, can always choose to make itself better.



I have a sneaky feeling it will be the "Heretic" Geth which will fight for you and that the Homeworld Geth are the devious ones.



If your curious how I came to that, think hard about Legion.



You slaughtered thousands of Geth. The Geth that weren't being killed then decided to send an autonomous unit solo to find Shepard. A single platform, given enough Geth programs to be fully functional. It's not that they were sent to understand the reaper tech like when you come across him. Legion has been tracking Shepard for 2 years! The beacon problem only occurs recently!



Why would anyone ever send a single unit out in covert actions against a specific individual that has shown repeated success against your kind? If it were peace talks why not just go straight to the Quarians, losing a few platforms sure but they'd get the hint eventually. Geth do not die so long as they have a FTL comm system to download off, so they could simply keep sending messengers. Legion was sent out specifically for Shepard. Sounding shadier yet?

[HereticSon]

Hello, my fellow Talilovers !
Checking in for the very first time, seems like I missed the two threads before this one thanks to Taliloving in-game


Edit: Oh my, unpassable Tali banners. Thank Keelah !

Modifié par HereticSon, 22 février 2010 - 03:05 .