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[MMA7FF]

videowiz186 wrote...

alickar wrote...

well anyways bye

Keelah Se'lai, my friend!

keelah se'lai you angry angry krogan lol
throws chair in honor of alickar*

[Jakegnosis]

mothbanquet wrote...

Jakegnosis wrote...

mothbanquet wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

Glad to see you agree Jake, that is refreshing. And yes.
Renegade Shepard is a dick. What more needs to be said?

That's a little harsh, don't you think?  I think a 'renegade' Sehpard would be a hell of a lot more likely than a goody-two-shoes saint.  Renegade Shep would be far more likely to save the galaxy because he is prepared to do what has to be done, regardless of such petty matters like 'morality'.  In reality, that is often the case.

Paragon Shepard would more likely set up street marches and print anti-reaper t shirts...

I thoroughly disagree.  Renegade Shepard is a callous and posturing sociopath.  Paragon Shepard is a goddamn inspiration, a warrior-diplomat who embodies the best qualities of humanity.  I think it's obvious who the galaxy would be more likely to unite behind.

I think it's interesting you view the character in just distinct shades of black and white.  I personally think both extremes are flawed and really really dull.  My Shep's 60% renegard and about 40% paragon.  He's no monster but he will do what has to be done. Much more human, that way.  i mean, what good is the saviour of humanity when he doesn't even seem human?

My Shep is full Paragon, but I still have just over 20% renegade.  Some of the Renegade options are just sensible, like shooting Fade's agent's Krogan bodyguards before they can draw on you, or blowing up the crazed Krogan warlord before he can finish his "I'm going to rule the galaxy!!!" speech.  You pretty much knew there was no chance for a peaceful resolution in those situations.  Oh, and headbutting that jackass in Grunt's loyalty mission seemed like it was just good etiquette on Tuchanka.  

It's not like Paragon Shepard doesn't do what needs to be done, he just prefers to exhaust all diplomatic alternatives before he has to kill three dozen people.  And it works out well for him.  I'm cautiously optimistic about all the big decisions I made with him, and I feel that they're all in character.

[cutthecameras]

MMA7FF wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

MMA7FF wrote...

so does anyone kno if liara can be with a fem shep on me1?
I thought id be possible since asari dont decern between gender when it comes to a mate or partner.

Is available. Asari technically unisex.

i thought so but i never put the time into making a fem shep just to see if it was possible : /

Sorry. Yeah I did it on my first playthrough. Good times? It felt really genuine.

[A Blind Bandit]

Urban Legend wrote...

A Blind Bandit wrote...

A Blind Bandit wrote...

Hey all! thought i'd show you the Tali drawing I've been working on. Its not the best but I'm still practicing. i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/CONNOR2059/tali_blackandwhite.jpg
And here's my fail attempt at trying to color it
i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/CONNOR2059/Talipractice.jpg

Shameless self-promotion. Any critique at all would be very helpful!

I like, I like!

Thanks! Well, I'm off to bed. Keelah Se'lai, everyone.

[Himmelstor]

cutthecameras wrote...

Daurf815 wrote...
through the lines Bioware has written and what they have said about Tali's character, she shows no inclination to start a F/F romance.

You sure about that?
"I have something Shepard...I have you"
"I would be honored to link suits with you"
"A single kiss could put me in the hospital"
She leads up to something intimate for sure, but after a while she starts cleaning the already shining engine to death so...I guess that's that? Something feels a bit removed.

Is removed because following discussions are male Shepard only.
Garrus, for male Shepards, will endlessly do calibrations, for example.
Doesn't mean anything except didn't want to put effort into for buddy relationship.

[videowiz186]

videowiz186 wrote...

VW has finally completed Part 9! 
Please read and comment. Think deserve it. After long write.
Salvation or Destruction Part 9

To carry over.

[MMA7FF]

Jakegnosis wrote...

mothbanquet wrote...

Jakegnosis wrote...

mothbanquet wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

Glad to see you agree Jake, that is refreshing. And yes.
Renegade Shepard is a dick. What more needs to be said?

That's a little harsh, don't you think?  I think a 'renegade' Sehpard would be a hell of a lot more likely than a goody-two-shoes saint.  Renegade Shep would be far more likely to save the galaxy because he is prepared to do what has to be done, regardless of such petty matters like 'morality'.  In reality, that is often the case.

Paragon Shepard would more likely set up street marches and print anti-reaper t shirts...

I thoroughly disagree.  Renegade Shepard is a callous and posturing sociopath.  Paragon Shepard is a goddamn inspiration, a warrior-diplomat who embodies the best qualities of humanity.  I think it's obvious who the galaxy would be more likely to unite behind.

I think it's interesting you view the character in just distinct shades of black and white.  I personally think both extremes are flawed and really really dull.  My Shep's 60% renegard and about 40% paragon.  He's no monster but he will do what has to be done. Much more human, that way.  i mean, what good is the saviour of humanity when he doesn't even seem human?

My Shep is full Paragon, but I still have just over 20% renegade.  Some of the Renegade options are just sensible, like shooting Fade's agent's Krogan bodyguards before they can draw on you, or blowing up the crazed Krogan warlord before he can finish his "I'm going to rule the galaxy!!!" speech.  You pretty much knew there was no chance for a peaceful resolution in those situations.  Oh, and headbutting that jackass in Grunt's loyalty mission seemed like it was just good etiquette on Tuchanka.  

It's not like Paragon Shepard doesn't do what needs to be done, he just prefers to exhaust all diplomatic alternatives before he has to kill three dozen people.  And it works out well for him.  I'm cautiously optimistic about all the big decisions I made with him, and I feel that they're all in character.

ya kno if you wait to shoot the guards they just walk away instead of fighting you..

[videowiz186]

A Blind Bandit wrote...

Thanks! Well, I'm off to bed. Keelah Se'lai, everyone.

Keelah Se'lai, my friend!

[Himmelstor]

videowiz186 wrote...

videowiz186 wrote...

VW has finally completed Part 9! 
Please read and comment. Think deserve it. After long write.
Salvation or Destruction Part 9

To carry over.

Still recommended.

[cutthecameras]

Himmelstor wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

Daurf815 wrote...
through the lines Bioware has written and what they have said about Tali's character, she shows no inclination to start a F/F romance.

You sure about that?
"I have something Shepard...I have you"
"I would be honored to link suits with you"
"A single kiss could put me in the hospital"
She leads up to something intimate for sure, but after a while she starts cleaning the already shining engine to death so...I guess that's that? Something feels a bit removed.

Is removed because following discussions are male Shepard only.
Garrus, for male Shepards, will endlessly do calibrations, for example.
Doesn't mean anything except didn't want to put effort into for buddy relationship.

Is it wrong that I see the way Tali acts there as totally out of character? Why would she lead my Shepard on like that only to keep blowing her off essentially? That's not the Tali I know and love that's for sure.

[Garlador]

Quick statements on the whole lesbian Tali thing.

I'm absolutely fine with her being straight. If she prefers men, she prefer men and that's an intentional character trait. If you don't agree with it, that doesn't mean she should compromise her own preferences for yours.

In similar tastes, I know a lot of people wanted to romance Samara, but she rejects you. Why? It's part of her character. Others wanted to romance Morinth and live to talk about it, but she'll kill you if you sleep with her. Why? It's her character. In ME1, Liara is okay with a threesome with Ashley while Ashley is totally repulsed by the idea. Jack won't settle for being "just friends" and will either sleep with you or hate you... or both. It's just who she is, even if you want something else from her or any of the others.

That may seem like a cop-out answer, but I find it to be integral to who they are, what they believe in and stand for, just how open-minded or close-minded they are. They aren't just digital shells but almost tangible characters with identifiable, discernible values and mindsets.

And Tali is great for who she is, regardless of her sexual preferences, opinions of the Geth, or open disdain for Cerberus. Whether you consider those character flaws or not, she has a solid, clear and concise opinion and prefererences, which makes her attractive. Like Samara, if you're a girl and you just can't romance her, she's still a good, loyal, and loving friend, and that's far more than most could ever ask for.

Modifié par Garlador, 24 février 2010 - 06:46 .

[videowiz186]

On discussion of renegade and paragon, personally was all paragon. Never chose one renegade option. Am guilty of decisions, even if in video game. But understand rengade's perspective. Due in large part to Doctor's fanfiction.

[NuclearBuddha]

MMA7FF wrote...

Jakegnosis wrote...

My Shep is full Paragon, but I still have just over 20% renegade.  Some of the Renegade options are just sensible, like shooting Fade's agent's Krogan bodyguards before they can draw on you, or blowing up the crazed Krogan warlord before he can finish his "I'm going to rule the galaxy!!!" speech.  You pretty much knew there was no chance for a peaceful resolution in those situations.  Oh, and headbutting that jackass in Grunt's loyalty mission seemed like it was just good etiquette on Tuchanka.  

It's not like Paragon Shepard doesn't do what needs to be done, he just prefers to exhaust all diplomatic alternatives before he has to kill three dozen people.  And it works out well for him.  I'm cautiously optimistic about all the big decisions I made with him, and I feel that they're all in character.

ya kno if you wait to shoot the guards they just walk away instead of fighting you..

That was interesting to me because a lot of times ignoring the interrupt lands a person in trouble.  I wish that they were a little more 50/50 in terms of necessity to reward people with a cooler head.

Then again, the right thing is always harder to do.

[MMA7FF]

cutthecameras wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

Daurf815 wrote...
through the lines Bioware has written and what they have said about Tali's character, she shows no inclination to start a F/F romance.

You sure about that?
"I have something Shepard...I have you"
"I would be honored to link suits with you"
"A single kiss could put me in the hospital"
She leads up to something intimate for sure, but after a while she starts cleaning the already shining engine to death so...I guess that's that? Something feels a bit removed.

Is removed because following discussions are male Shepard only.
Garrus, for male Shepards, will endlessly do calibrations, for example.
Doesn't mean anything except didn't want to put effort into for buddy relationship.

Is it wrong that I see the way Tali acts there as totally out of character? Why would she lead my Shepard on like that only to keep blowing her off essentially? That's not the Tali I know and love that's for sure.

awww Tali should be able to fall in love with fem shep i dont see the problem it is YOUR game after all it has no effect on anyone elses so i dont understand why not

[Huacaya]

Jakegnosis wrote...
My Shep is full Paragon, but I still have just over 20% renegade.  Some of the Renegade options are just sensible, like shooting Fade's agent's Krogan bodyguards before they can draw on you, or blowing up the crazed Krogan warlord before he can finish his "I'm going to rule the galaxy!!!" speech.  You pretty much knew there was no chance for a peaceful resolution in those situations.

But that's not the point. It doesn't matter how good, tactically, it was to act, the fact remains that you attacked an opponent when he was not prepared to meet you. This using guile and deceit in place of skill to defeat your opponet. That's Renegade.

[Himmelstor]

videowiz186 wrote...

On discussion of renegade and paragon, personally was all paragon. Never chose one renegade option. Am guilty of decisions, even if in video game. But understand rengade's perspective. Due in large part to Doctor's fanfiction.

Flattered. Appreciated.

[Azint]

Garlador wrote...

Quick statements on the whole lesbian Tali thing.

I'm absolutely fine with her being straight. If she prefers men, she prefer men and that's an intentional character trait. If you don't agree with it, that doesn't mean she should compromise her own preferences for yours.

In similar tastes, I know a lot of people wanted to romance Samara, but she rejects you. Why? It's part of her character. Others wanted to romance Morinth and live to talk about it, but she'll kill you if you sleep with her. Why? It's her character. In ME1, Liara is okay with a threesome with Ashley while Ashley is totally repulsed by the idea.

That may seem like a cop-out answer, but I find it to be integral to who they are, what they believe in and stand for, just how open-minded or close-minded they are. They aren't just digital shells but almost tangible characters with identifiable, discernible values and mindsets.

And Tali is great for who she is, regardless of her sexual preferences, opinions of the Geth, or open disdain for Cerberus. Whether you consider those character flaws or not, she has a solid, clear and concise opinion and prefer, which makes her attractive. Like Samara, if you're a girl and you just can't romance her, she's still a good, loyal, and loving friend, and that's far more than most could ever ask for.

Agreed.

Still up to the devs however.

[Aardvark-8]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Jakegnosis wrote...

mothbanquet wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

Glad to see you agree Jake, that is refreshing. And yes.
Renegade Shepard is a dick. What more needs to be said?

That's a little harsh, don't you think?  I think a 'renegade' Sehpard would be a hell of a lot more likely than a goody-two-shoes saint.  Renegade Shep would be far more likely to save the galaxy because he is prepared to do what has to be done, regardless of such petty matters like 'morality'.  In reality, that is often the case.

Paragon Shepard would more likely set up street marches and print anti-reaper t shirts...

I thoroughly disagree.  Renegade Shepard is a callous and posturing sociopath.  Paragon Shepard is a goddamn inspiration, a warrior-diplomat who embodies the best qualities of humanity.  I think it's obvious who the galaxy would be more likely to unite behind.

Yeah, as far as I can tell, the difference is that paragon Shep gives you some encouragement and a chance to repent before he kills you and your friends to the last man.  I don't think it's too unlikely that he made it to where he is.

Agreed. Paragon Shepard is a great man, compassionate character and an inspiration to those who follow him as well as the other races. He'd be even more likely to defeat the Reaper threat because he'll be able to unite the galaxy against them, rallying others through his bravery and honesty. If you treat people straight, they take notice and might heed what you're saying.
Plus, Tali deserves better than renegade 
Keelah se'lai

Azint wrote...

Garlador wrote...

Quick statements on the whole lesbian Tali thing.

I'm absolutely fine with her being straight. If she prefers men, she prefer men and that's an intentional character trait. If you don't agree with it, that doesn't mean she should compromise her own preferences for yours. 

In similar tastes, I know a lot of people wanted to romance Samara, but she rejects you. Why? It's part of her character. Others wanted to romance Morinth and live to talk about it, but she'll kill you if you sleep with her. Why? It's her character. In ME1, Liara is okay with a threesome with Ashley while Ashley is totally repulsed by the idea.

That may seem like a cop-out answer, but I find it to be integral to who they are, what they believe in and stand for, just how open-minded or close-minded they are. They aren't just digital shells but almost tangible characters with identifiable, discernible values and mindsets. 

And Tali is great for who she is, regardless of her sexual preferences, opinions of the Geth, or open disdain for Cerberus. Whether you consider those character flaws or not, she has a solid, clear and concise opinion and prefer, which makes her attractive. Like Samara, if you're a girl and you just can't romance her, she's still a good, loyal, and loving friend, and that's far more than most could ever ask for.

Agreed.

Still up to the devs however.

And this pretty much covers my opinion as well. We should accept her as she is, no matter what she may or may not choose down the line.
Besides,  Shepard obviously has a lot of  influence over her, no matter Shep's gender. So it would't be too stretched if in ME3 they implemented a lot of dialogue with power to change Tali's point of view on any number of subjects, from geth, to Cerberus (and come on, paragon shepard trusts Cerberus about the same as she does) and even to her preferences. Seems like a win-win solution, no-one forced to anything. And the players put off by same sex relationship wouldn't even have it brought up during their play 

Tali <3 4ever,keelah se'lai
Aardvark

Modifié par Aardvark-8, 24 février 2010 - 06:55 .

[mothbanquet]

Daurf815 wrote...

mothbanquet wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

MMA7FF wrote...

cutt you must excuse the horny nerds they get very intrigued by your orientation...
im sure that gets on your nerves some times : /

I had a fun-filled day of lesbian double-standards at work.*

*brutal amounts of sarcasm

Yeah, I'm used to it. It's good to see some of you guys are reasonably open to the idea of same sex romance though. There may be a thread on it tomorrow if the group decides to move with it. Hopefully the trolls won't burn it to the ground in an instant and the mods won't lock it for "spoilers" or whatever other sorry excuse.

They probably will, you can't expect the internet to he sensible or rational about something.  I've never really spoken about the subject before but I found female Shep's relationship with Liara in ME1 to be really deep and personable.  I don't see why this couldn't be extended to ME2, especially as the whole franchise is based around the concept of choice.

When people say 'Oh, Tali's a straight character, so she's off-limits' two thoughts spring to mind.  First, why do they care so much?  Nobody's forcing anything down their throats and if they don't like the idea then don't do it, is that really so hard?  Second, the whole ME experience is about personal interpretation.  Every Shepard is unique to us, and therefore every relationship with a secondary character is unique also.  Nobody can claim to 'know' anything about Tali, nor should they.

Phew, I'll stop there.

Well to be fair, if Bioware does not want Tali to be a female romance option, they can say it's because it's part of her character.

Now before you complain, here's an example:

In DA:O I created a character that was unique, a quality you desire in your characters it would seem. Anyway, I progress through the game and get Wynne to join me. I find her interesting, nice, smart, etc. and decide I want a romance with her. But, of course, I can't as she is elderly and does not wish for a relationship. Why? It's because it's part of her character.

I know that example might be lame, and Im not against same sex relationships in videogames, but making tali romancable to both sexes seems silly as, through the lines Bioware has written and what they have said about Tali's character, she shows no inclination to start a F/F romance.

Writing something out of someone's character shows a distinct lack of imagination and realism in my opinion.  i know someone who was striaght for forty years before coming out, proof if any were needed that things such as sexuality cannot be 'written out' of anyone.

I see your point but i believe that even the creators of art can dorp the ball at times (looking at you, George Lucas) and this is one of them.

[Himmelstor]

Huacaya wrote...

Jakegnosis wrote...
My Shep is full Paragon, but I still have just over 20% renegade.  Some of the Renegade options are just sensible, like shooting Fade's agent's Krogan bodyguards before they can draw on you, or blowing up the crazed Krogan warlord before he can finish his "I'm going to rule the galaxy!!!" speech.  You pretty much knew there was no chance for a peaceful resolution in those situations.

But that's not the point. It doesn't matter how good, tactically, it was to act, the fact remains that you attacked an opponent when he was not prepared to meet you. This using guile and deceit in place of skill to defeat your opponet. That's Renegade.

Good tactics, too. When killing people, morals often take backseat to getting upper hand.
Risks do not need to be taken because of "Good Guy!"
Like my friend says: Good does not mean stupid.

[cutthecameras]

Garlador wrote...

Quick statements on the whole lesbian Tali thing.

I'm absolutely fine with her being straight. If she prefers men, she prefer men and that's an intentional character trait. If you don't agree with it, that doesn't mean she should compromise her own preferences for yours.

I'm not gonna get into it. But if Tali flat out said "hey I'm into guys" then I would understand, but she doesn't. Also Tali is pixels, and those were put there by Bioware. Bioware has done a fine job of excluding any romance option that doesn't please straight men and women...It's not quite fair to those that fall outside of that. Big surprise.

[1490]

Jakegnosis wrote...

mothbanquet wrote...

Jakegnosis wrote...

mothbanquet wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

Glad to see you agree Jake, that is refreshing. And yes.
Renegade Shepard is a dick. What more needs to be said?

That's a little harsh, don't you think?  I think a 'renegade' Sehpard would be a hell of a lot more likely than a goody-two-shoes saint.  Renegade Shep would be far more likely to save the galaxy because he is prepared to do what has to be done, regardless of such petty matters like 'morality'.  In reality, that is often the case.

Paragon Shepard would more likely set up street marches and print anti-reaper t shirts...

I thoroughly disagree.  Renegade Shepard is a callous and posturing sociopath.  Paragon Shepard is a goddamn inspiration, a warrior-diplomat who embodies the best qualities of humanity.  I think it's obvious who the galaxy would be more likely to unite behind.

I think it's interesting you view the character in just distinct shades of black and white.  I personally think both extremes are flawed and really really dull.  My Shep's 60% renegard and about 40% paragon.  He's no monster but he will do what has to be done. Much more human, that way.  i mean, what good is the saviour of humanity when he doesn't even seem human?

My Shep is full Paragon, but I still have just over 20% renegade.  Some of the Renegade options are just sensible, like shooting Fade's agent's Krogan bodyguards before they can draw on you, or blowing up the crazed Krogan warlord before he can finish his "I'm going to rule the galaxy!!!" speech.  You pretty much knew there was no chance for a peaceful resolution in those situations.  Oh, and headbutting that jackass in Grunt's loyalty mission seemed like it was just good etiquette on Tuchanka.  

It's not like Paragon Shepard doesn't do what needs to be done, he just prefers to exhaust all diplomatic alternatives before he has to kill three dozen people.  And it works out well for him.  I'm cautiously optimistic about all the big decisions I made with him, and I feel that they're all in character.

It's almost impossible to get through the game without half a bar of paragon or renegade.  Some seemingly neutral questions give you renegade or paragon points, and just participating in a lot of quests gives you paragon/renegade points.  I was as good as I could possibly be with my paragon shep, and I still had over half a bar of renegade by the end.

[mothbanquet]

Jakegnosis wrote...

My Shep is full Paragon, but I still have just over 20% renegade.  Some of the Renegade options are just sensible, like shooting Fade's agent's Krogan bodyguards before they can draw on you, or blowing up the crazed Krogan warlord before he can finish his "I'm going to rule the galaxy!!!" speech.  You pretty much knew there was no chance for a peaceful resolution in those situations.  Oh, and headbutting that jackass in Grunt's loyalty mission seemed like it was just good etiquette on Tuchanka.  

It's not like Paragon Shepard doesn't do what needs to be done, he just prefers to exhaust all diplomatic alternatives before he has to kill three dozen people.  And it works out well for him.  I'm cautiously optimistic about all the big decisions I made with him, and I feel that they're all in character.

Each to his own mate, and that's the magic of ME, we all have our decisions that we believe to be right.  I just like the idea that everything need to be so clear cut or defined.  In fact, I'd be happy in ME3 if the rachni went psycho again, just to give all you paragons who saved the queen smoething to think about

[videowiz186]

Moth, created Part 9 of fanfiction. Would like personal opinion.

[cutthecameras]

mothbanquet wrote...

Jakegnosis wrote...

My Shep is full Paragon, but I still have just over 20% renegade.  Some of the Renegade options are just sensible, like shooting Fade's agent's Krogan bodyguards before they can draw on you, or blowing up the crazed Krogan warlord before he can finish his "I'm going to rule the galaxy!!!" speech.  You pretty much knew there was no chance for a peaceful resolution in those situations.  Oh, and headbutting that jackass in Grunt's loyalty mission seemed like it was just good etiquette on Tuchanka.  

It's not like Paragon Shepard doesn't do what needs to be done, he just prefers to exhaust all diplomatic alternatives before he has to kill three dozen people.  And it works out well for him.  I'm cautiously optimistic about all the big decisions I made with him, and I feel that they're all in character.

Each to his own mate, and that's the magic of ME, we all have our decisions that we believe to be right.  I just like the idea that everything need to be so clear cut or defined.  In fact, I'd be happy in ME3 if the rachni went psycho again, just to give all you paragons who saved the queen smoething to think about

There is a very real sense of dread in me that that will occur in ME3. I really don't need the Rachni discrediting my position as a responsible leader