137512 réponses à ce sujet

[The_KFD_Case]

Lareit wrote...

Rakia_Time wrote...

Lareit wrote...

Rakia_Time wrote...

 Reading that stuff about sacrificing someone made me think, what if in the end of ME3 you get an option :
a. Sacrificing yourself to save the galaxy and everyone you love
b. Someone else, lets say..Garrus offers to sacrifice himself so that you can live
c. Your LI has to die for everyone else to live
d. You all die togeter
What will you choose ?

EDIT: Damn formating

In the situation of B does that mean only garrus dies?

Then A everytime.

yes, and it doesn't have to be Garrus i just used him cause he's one of my favourites

Doesn't matter who it is.(well maybe thane, or modrin due to their dying status) Someone who's willing to do that deserves to live as much as I do. ANd since he was steping in the decision already was put on me. I couldn't be irresponsible and selfish like that.

It's a crap shoot. Someone will die and sacrifice will be required. In the classic opening scenes of BGII where the genie asks whether I would choose to confess first and spare my sister's life, wait to see if she confesses first and spares my life, or we both stay silent and we both make it out alive, the ideal outcome would be the third one, IMO. However, given the inherent risk and presuming such a scenario had not been discussed at length with my sister in advance, I would be strongly inclined to confess to ensure her survival.

While you argue that someone willing to sacrifice his/her life has just as much right to live as you do, that may be true yet the door swings both ways and conversely you have just as much right to live as well. This is especially true following your own logic if you then volunteer to sacrifice yourself. Will someone else feel the same way and interject? If so then it may turn in to a merry-go-round scenario. Someone has to bite the bullet at some point. Honour is all well and good; I used to be somewhat blinded by it when I was younger. I still value honour but it is one amongst several concepts I treasure. Pragmatism is another one.

[apinya]

I think that the sacrifice and lost is important and must have in ME3. It would be to American, if we can eradicate every reaper with out any lost of planets or solar systems. I remember the American anime that I watch when I was young but can not remember the name. The story is about the unite of many planet from different solar system to fight the villain which is the gigantic dark star that eat other planets. There are many planets that were eaten by the dark star before the resistance can ultimately destroy the star ,some of eaten planets are home world of an entire specie.

The point is that there must we the lost inorder to make the story more deep and sensationalism.

[Gerudan]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

Sacrificing Thane or Mordin (assuming they're still around in ME3) would be a rather intelligent thing to do, since both of them likely don't have much time left. Not saying that it'd be an easy decision, I like them both - but from a logical viewpoint, they'd make a better sacrifice than Shep.

I wouldn't even think about that, if it is Sheps decision, then it has to be Shep who sacrifices himself. 

[nitefyre410]

Rakia_Time wrote...

 Reading that stuff about sacrificing someone made me think, what if in the end of ME3 you get an option :
a. Sacrificing yourself to save the galaxy and everyone you love
b. Someone else, lets say..Garrus offers to sacrifice himself so that you can live
c. Your LI has to die for everyone else to live
d. You all die togeter
What will you choose ?

EDIT: Damn formating

 


I would do option A, make my peace with the good lord  and finish the job i was sent to do... Then off course Garrus would most like  hit me with  concussive round knock me out and do it himself anyway. saying that is my Job to take care of Tali or something along those lines.   

But i would go with Option A 

[NuclearBuddha]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

It's a crap shoot. Someone will die and sacrifice will be required. In the classic opening scenes of BGII where the genie asks whether I would choose to confess first and spare my sister's life, wait to see if she confesses first and spares my life, or we both stay silent and we both make it out alive, the ideal outcome would be the third one, IMO. However, given the inherent risk and presuming such a scenario had not been discussed at length with my sister in advance, I would be strongly inclined to confess to ensure her survival.

I'm just jumping in without a clue of the context, but you're forgetting an important part of the Prisoner's Dilemma:  if both parties confess, they both suffer.  The only rational thing to do is clam up and pray the other person trusts you.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 24 février 2010 - 02:46 .

[UFOash]

Do Quarians take their masks off to eat?

[Levi va Normandy]

http://rzepik.devian...tions-155143012 CRAP

Modifié par Levi va Normandy, 24 février 2010 - 02:39 .

[Levi va Normandy]

UFOash wrote...

Do Quarians take their masks off to eat?

No they eat via tubes (kinda leik toothpaste) through their mask, so noh they dont 

[HK01]

apinya wrote...

I think that the sacrifice and lost is important and must have in ME3. It would be to American, if we can eradicate every reaper with out any lost of planets or solar systems. I remember the American anime that I watch when I was young but can not remember the name. The story is about the unite of many planet from different solar system to fight the villain which is the gigantic dark star that eat other planets. There are many planets that were eaten by the dark star before the resistance can ultimately destroy the star ,some of eaten planets are home world of an entire specie.
The point is that there must we the lost inorder to make the story more deep and sensationalism.

Agreed.

Actually, I wouldn't mind losing the battle in the end.

Modifié par HK01, 24 février 2010 - 02:42 .

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

Gerudan wrote...

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

Sacrificing Thane or Mordin (assuming they're still around in ME3) would be a rather intelligent thing to do, since both of them likely don't have much time left. Not saying that it'd be an easy decision, I like them both - but from a logical viewpoint, they'd make a better sacrifice than Shep.

I wouldn't even think about that, if it is Sheps decision, then it has to be Shep who sacrifices himself. 

It surely won't be a scenario of "Sacrifice Self" or "Hey, X, you go sacrifice yourself." 
But rather a <Character X comes up> "Hey Shep, I only have x months to live before I'll suffocate, because I'm Thane, let me take the hit so you can get out with the others and live happily with Tali. Also, say hi to Kolyat for me."
Going down in a heroic way as opposed to painfully suffocating? If I were Thane, I'd totally want that.

[Lareit]

Rakia_Time wrote...

 Reading that stuff about sacrificing someone made me think, what if in the end of ME3 you get an option :
a. Sacrificing yourself to save the galaxy and everyone you love
b. Someone else, lets say..Garrus offers to sacrifice himself so that you can live
c. Your LI has to die for everyone else to live
d. You all die togeter
What will you choose ?

For b. lets look at the actual candidates to see who would be willing to offer their lives.Ignoring romance.
1. Garrus-Yes, it seems very viable that he would be willing to take Shepards place due to their history.
2. Tali-No, she has alot of duties back on the migrant fleet that even out of romance I doubt she would step up
3. Jack-No, do I need to explain this one?
4. Miranda-No, but only barely, loyalty to her sister gives her a strong inclindation to want to survive.
5. Modrin-Yes, he would see  his limited life span as logical sacrifice.
6. Thane-See Above
7. Jacob-Yes, he seems to admire Shepard nearly as quickly as Garrus. No attachments to the past and I belive he would be willing to step in.
8. Zaeed-No, mercenary, selfish.
9. Grunt-No, sacrificing isn't dying in glorious battle. Shepard may be his battlemaster, but such a death isn't Krogan.
10. Legion-I'm stumped really on which way he would lean.
11. Samara-Yes, I imagine her code might even encourage it for a paragon shepard. Especially after his help with her daughter.
12. Kaiden-Yes, loyalty to shepard, respect for what Shepard is capable of beyond him. Rank probably would affect it as well.
13. Ash- Yes, similar reasons, her sisters and grandfather redeemption negate each other.
14. Liara-No, even though she feels guilt over giving him to cerberus for selfish reasons, she's not going to feel quite as indepted to saving his life a 2nd time.

[Aardvark-8]

apinya wrote...

I think that the sacrifice and lost is important and must have in ME3. It would be to American, if we can eradicate every reaper with out any lost of planets or solar systems. I remember the American anime that I watch when I was young but can not remember the name. The story is about the unite of many planet from different solar system to fight the villain which is the gigantic dark star that eat other planets. There are many planets that were eaten by the dark star before the resistance can ultimately destroy the star ,some of eaten planets are home world of an entire specie.
The point is that there must we the lost inorder to make the story more deep and sensationalism.

That is true (we all still remember Kaidan/Ashley dying on Virmire), but the player should have at least some control about it. He does in most other Bioware games anyway, they never force drama on us.
It's undeniable much will be lost during the war with reapers, and I fully expect the galaxy to be hit severely. But we'll surely have at least some way to ensure survival of the one each of us wants to. It won't be possible to save everyone, but you'll be able to choose anyone most likely.

A hypothetical question, if the game was made so you'd always lose your current LI during the fighting, would you leave Tali to save her life, or would you  make what you could from the time together before that, then chose to die with her? 

[HK01]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

Gerudan wrote...

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

Sacrificing Thane or Mordin (assuming they're still around in ME3) would be a rather intelligent thing to do, since both of them likely don't have much time left. Not saying that it'd be an easy decision, I like them both - but from a logical viewpoint, they'd make a better sacrifice than Shep.

I wouldn't even think about that, if it is Sheps decision, then it has to be Shep who sacrifices himself. 

It surely won't be a scenario of "Sacrifice Self" or "Hey, X, you go sacrifice yourself." 
But rather a  "Hey Shep, I only have x months to live before I'll suffocate, because I'm Thane, let me take the hit so you can get out with the others and live happily with Tali. Also, say hi to Kolyat for me."
Going down in a heroic way as opposed to painfully suffocating? If I were Thane, I'd totally want that.

Or someone on your team who's loyal to you sacrifices himself and you have no control over it. I can imagine that happening, too.

[The_KFD_Case]

Gerudan wrote...

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

Sacrificing Thane or Mordin (assuming they're still around in ME3) would be a rather intelligent thing to do, since both of them likely don't have much time left. Not saying that it'd be an easy decision, I like them both - but from a logical viewpoint, they'd make a better sacrifice than Shep.

I wouldn't even think about that, if it is Sheps decision, then it has to be Shep who sacrifices himself. 

I disagree. While I was not an officer while in the military, one of the (hardest) lessons that a leader, any leader be it in the military or in the civilian world, needs to learn is whom to sacrifice, when and where to do it and for what purpose. Some are more carefree in their approach to such matters which I consider deplorable. Others shoulder the burden and it likely wears them down over time. It doesn't diminish the losses incurred yet as long as such decisions are made with due deliberation, careful thought and some mind being paid to ethical and pragmatic aspects of the given situation I can accept it, if perhaps not with a smile upon my lips.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 24 février 2010 - 02:54 .

[Aardvark-8]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Rakia_Time wrote...

 Reading that stuff about sacrificing someone made me think, what if in the end of ME3 you get an option :
a. Sacrificing yourself to save the galaxy and everyone you love
b. Someone else, lets say..Garrus offers to sacrifice himself so that you can live
c. Your LI has to die for everyone else to live
d. You all die togeter
What will you choose ?

EDIT: Damn formating

 


I would do option A, make my peace with the good lord  and finish the job i was sent to do... Then off course Garrus would most like  hit me with  concussive round knock me out and do it himself anyway. saying that is my Job to take care of Tali or something along those lines.   

But i would go with Option A 

Hilarious. And I fully believe that's what Garrus would do; after all, paragon shep would do the same were positions reversed 

[Gerudan]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

It surely won't be a scenario of "Sacrifice Self" or "Hey, X, you go sacrifice yourself." 
But rather a  "Hey Shep, I only have x months to live before I'll suffocate, because I'm Thane, let me take the hit so you can get out with the others and live happily with Tali. Also, say hi to Kolyat for me."
Going down in a heroic way as opposed to painfully suffocating? If I were Thane, I'd totally want that.

Probably, but my Shep would answer him like that: "Get the f*** out of my way and spend your last months with you son, you suicidal moron!" 

I mean, come on, if I play a Paragon, then I play a real Paragon! 

[Aardvark-8]

HK01 wrote...

apinya wrote...

I think that the sacrifice and lost is important and must have in ME3. It would be to American, if we can eradicate every reaper with out any lost of planets or solar systems. I remember the American anime that I watch when I was young but can not remember the name. The story is about the unite of many planet from different solar system to fight the villain which is the gigantic dark star that eat other planets. There are many planets that were eaten by the dark star before the resistance can ultimately destroy the star ,some of eaten planets are home world of an entire specie.
The point is that there must we the lost inorder to make the story more deep and sensationalism.

Agreed.

Actually, I wouldn't mind losing the battle in the end.

I kind of would. That would be rather anti-climactic, for the crowning part of the series 

[The_KFD_Case]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

It's a crap shoot. Someone will die and sacrifice will be required. In the classic opening scenes of BGII where the genie asks whether I would choose to confess first and spare my sister's life, wait to see if she confesses first and spares my life, or we both stay silent and we both make it out alive, the ideal outcome would be the third one, IMO. However, given the inherent risk and presuming such a scenario had not been discussed at length with my sister in advance, I would be strongly inclined to confess to ensure her survival.

I'm just jumping in without a clue of the context, but you're forgetting an important part of the Prisoner's Dilemma:  if both parties confess, they both suffer.  The only ration thing to do is clam up and pray the other person trusts you.

That is one rational thing to do. It's just as rational to guarantee the survival of at least some of your own group by confessing first. It's similar to the medical "what if" scenario where you have X amount of patients and you can guarantee the survival of half of them if you act now, or you can wait and maybe save all of them but also run the risk of losing all of them. One can soundly argue that not opting to go for the choice that guarantees the safety of at least half the people is almost criminal as it effectively amounts to Russian roulette with all the patients lives. If no one survives then the risk was worthless. True, if all survive you might be lauded a hero, then again if at least half survive then the ones who didn't make didn't die in vain.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 24 février 2010 - 02:50 .

[Lareit]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

It's a crap shoot. Someone will die and sacrifice will be required. In the classic opening scenes of BGII where the genie asks whether I would choose to confess first and spare my sister's life, wait to see if she confesses first and spares my life, or we both stay silent and we both make it out alive, the ideal outcome would be the third one, IMO. However, given the inherent risk and presuming such a scenario had not been discussed at length with my sister in advance, I would be strongly inclined to confess to ensure her survival.

While you argue that someone willing to sacrifice his/her life has just as much right to live as you do, that may be true yet the door swings both ways and conversely you have just as much right to live as well. This is especially true following your own logic if you then volunteer to sacrifice yourself. Will someone else feel the same way and interject? If so then it may turn in to a merry-go-round scenario. Someone has to bite the bullet at some point. Honour is all well and good; I used to be somewhat blinded by it when I was younger. I still value honour but it is one amongst several concepts I treasure. Pragmatism is another one.

I agree, if it's just a matter of, one of us has to stay I would be more inclined to let Garrus in this case take the hit if he volunteered. I was arguing the point that it was expect that Shepard would be sacrificing himself(it was option A) by default and someone would have to step in. I wouldn't let someone step in if the responsibility feel on me first.

It was much easier in dragon age, sleep with morrigan so i can live and stay with Leliana? Sure, thats not really a hard decision....

I never answer that poor Genie. But if that were to say happen, I have a brother after all, I would sacrifice myself because I know my brother is a coward.
(If neither of you press the button both die, or if both of you press the button both die, there is no double survival)

Though truthfully I'd spend the entire hour trying to break out haha.

And yes Honor and Pride are among my most valued traits.

[The_KFD_Case]

UFOash wrote...

Do Quarians take their masks off to eat?

No. They eat vegetarian food that's been turned in to paste and which is fed to them through tubes.

[Gerudan]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

I disagree. While I was never an officer while in the military, one of the (hardest) lessons that a leader, any leader be it in the military or in the civilian world, needs to learn is whom to sacrifice, when and where to do it and for what purpose.

But it is a "hero game" and no army simulator. 

[Aardvark-8]

Lareit wrote...

Rakia_Time wrote...

 Reading that stuff about sacrificing someone made me think, what if in the end of ME3 you get an option :
a. Sacrificing yourself to save the galaxy and everyone you love
b. Someone else, lets say..Garrus offers to sacrifice himself so that you can live
c. Your LI has to die for everyone else to live
d. You all die togeter
What will you choose ?

For b. lets look at the actual candidates to see who would be willing to offer their lives.Ignoring romance.
1. Garrus-Yes, it seems very viable that he would be willing to take Shepards place due to their history.
2. Tali-No, she has alot of duties back on the migrant fleet that even out of romance I doubt she would step up
3. Jack-No, do I need to explain this one?
4. Miranda-No, but only barely, loyalty to her sister gives her a strong inclindation to want to survive.
5. Modrin-Yes, he would see  his limited life span as logical sacrifice.
6. Thane-See Above
7. Jacob-Yes, he seems to admire Shepard nearly as quickly as Garrus. No attachments to the past and I belive he would be willing to step in.
8. Zaeed-No, mercenary, selfish.
9. Grunt-No, sacrificing isn't dying in glorious battle. Shepard may be his battlemaster, but such a death isn't Krogan.
10. Legion-I'm stumped really on which way he would lean.
11. Samara-Yes, I imagine her code might even encourage it for a paragon shepard. Especially after his help with her daughter.
12. Kaiden-Yes, loyalty to shepard, respect for what Shepard is capable of beyond him. Rank probably would affect it as well.
13. Ash- Yes, similar reasons, her sisters and grandfather redeemption negate each other.
14. Liara-No, even though she feels guilt over giving him to cerberus for selfish reasons, she's not going to feel quite as indepted to saving his life a 2nd time.

I don't know, I think Tali would definitely try to volunteer as well. She's just that devoted to common good and to her allies IMO
<3Tali... 

[The_KFD_Case]

Lareit wrote...

Rakia_Time wrote...

 Reading that stuff about sacrificing someone made me think, what if in the end of ME3 you get an option :
a. Sacrificing yourself to save the galaxy and everyone you love
b. Someone else, lets say..Garrus offers to sacrifice himself so that you can live
c. Your LI has to die for everyone else to live
d. You all die togeter
What will you choose ?

For b. lets look at the actual candidates to see who would be willing to offer their lives.Ignoring romance.
1. Garrus-Yes, it seems very viable that he would be willing to take Shepards place due to their history.
2. Tali-No, she has alot of duties back on the migrant fleet that even out of romance I doubt she would step up
3. Jack-No, do I need to explain this one?
4. Miranda-No, but only barely, loyalty to her sister gives her a strong inclindation to want to survive.
5. Modrin-Yes, he would see  his limited life span as logical sacrifice.
6. Thane-See Above
7. Jacob-Yes, he seems to admire Shepard nearly as quickly as Garrus. No attachments to the past and I belive he would be willing to step in.
8. Zaeed-No, mercenary, selfish.
9. Grunt-No, sacrificing isn't dying in glorious battle. Shepard may be his battlemaster, but such a death isn't Krogan.
10. Legion-I'm stumped really on which way he would lean.
11. Samara-Yes, I imagine her code might even encourage it for a paragon shepard. Especially after his help with her daughter.
12. Kaiden-Yes, loyalty to shepard, respect for what Shepard is capable of beyond him. Rank probably would affect it as well.
13. Ash- Yes, similar reasons, her sisters and grandfather redeemption negate each other.
14. Liara-No, even though she feels guilt over giving him to cerberus for selfish reasons, she's not going to feel quite as indepted to saving his life a 2nd time.

I disagree. Depends entirely on how you've treated those people and their loyalty to you. Sometimes people can surprise you in the most unexpected ways (for better or worse).

For one, Tali strikes me as being willing to sacrifice herself if need be. It's par for course in Quarian culture.

[Lareit]

The_KFD_Case wrote...


I disagree. Depends entirely on how you've treated those people and their loyalty to you. Sometimes people can surprise you in the most unexpected ways (for better or worse).

For one, Tali strikes me as being willing to sacrifice herself if need be. It's par for course in Quarian culture.

True, I considered that. I personally felt duty towards the fleet along with self preservation would win out in the end.

I also wrote most of those under the assumption of paragon and completion of loyalty mission. I definately don't argue they're not potentially very incorrect haha.