137512 réponses à ce sujet

[The_KFD_Case]

Rakia_Time wrote...

Well since i started the discussion it's time to say what i think
Option d is pointless and evil, there is no good reason why you should do it
c - that's something i can't force myself to do, the same goes for b, if someone has to die it will be me, unless as @nitefyre410 said i'm forced or persuaded by someone to let him do it
a is the most logical, you're responsible for these people and it's your job to make sure they're safe even if that means dying in the process

That presumes that the sacrifice would bring an end to the threat. What if, just as was the case on Virmire, it came before the final showdown? Sacrificing yourself at that point would endanger the overall mission. Being the leader also means you are entrusted to call the shots, including sacrificing someone else over yourself and/or others. I imagine it's a guilt ridden aspect of leadership for those who don't suffer from some form of advanced psychosis.

[NuclearBuddha]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

I disagree. Depends entirely on how you've treated those people and their loyalty to you. Sometimes people can surprise you in the most unexpected ways (for better or worse).

For one, Tali strikes me as being willing to sacrifice herself if need be. It's par for course in Quarian culture.

I'm sure the Cold Equation is drilled into quarians at a young age.

[UFOash]

Lareit wrote...

Rakia_Time wrote...

 Reading that stuff about sacrificing someone made me think, what if in the end of ME3 you get an option :
a. Sacrificing yourself to save the galaxy and everyone you love
b. Someone else, lets say..Garrus offers to sacrifice himself so that you can live
c. Your LI has to die for everyone else to live
d. You all die togeter
What will you choose ?

For b. lets look at the actual candidates to see who would be willing to offer their lives.Ignoring romance.
1. Garrus-Yes, it seems very viable that he would be willing to take Shepards place due to their history.
2. Tali-No, she has alot of duties back on the migrant fleet that even out of romance I doubt she would step up
3. Jack-No, do I need to explain this one?
4. Miranda-No, but only barely, loyalty to her sister gives her a strong inclindation to want to survive.
5. Modrin-Yes, he would see  his limited life span as logical sacrifice.
6. Thane-See Above
7. Jacob-Yes, he seems to admire Shepard nearly as quickly as Garrus. No attachments to the past and I belive he would be willing to step in.
8. Zaeed-No, mercenary, selfish.
9. Grunt-No, sacrificing isn't dying in glorious battle. Shepard may be his battlemaster, but such a death isn't Krogan.
10. Legion-I'm stumped really on which way he would lean.
11. Samara-Yes, I imagine her code might even encourage it for a paragon shepard. Especially after his help with her daughter.
12. Kaiden-Yes, loyalty to shepard, respect for what Shepard is capable of beyond him. Rank probably would affect it as well.
13. Ash- Yes, similar reasons, her sisters and grandfather redeemption negate each other.
14. Liara-No, even though she feels guilt over giving him to cerberus for selfish reasons, she's not going to feel quite as indepted to saving his life a 2nd time.

I think Grunt would sacrifice himself if he was loyal to you,
He would almost definately if it was in battle.

[NuclearBuddha]

UFOash wrote...

I think Grunt would sacrifice himself if he was loyal to you,
He would almost definately if it was in battle.

Because HE IS KROGAAAN!

[Lareit]

UFOash wrote...


I think Grunt would sacrifice himself if he was loyal to you,
He would almost definately if it was in battle.

Battle, sure, but even against impossible odds battle isn't sacrifice. Shepard held the line at Elysium single handed against absurd odds.

Pressing a button that makes everything go Kaboom along with you isn't the kind of death a Krogan seeks.


Blargh, I really wish the thread moved at this pace during my prime time hours. My typing is decaying at an absurd rate due to exhaustion.

[The_KFD_Case]

Lareit wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

It's a crap shoot. Someone will die and sacrifice will be required. In the classic opening scenes of BGII where the genie asks whether I would choose to confess first and spare my sister's life, wait to see if she confesses first and spares my life, or we both stay silent and we both make it out alive, the ideal outcome would be the third one, IMO. However, given the inherent risk and presuming such a scenario had not been discussed at length with my sister in advance, I would be strongly inclined to confess to ensure her survival.

While you argue that someone willing to sacrifice his/her life has just as much right to live as you do, that may be true yet the door swings both ways and conversely you have just as much right to live as well. This is especially true following your own logic if you then volunteer to sacrifice yourself. Will someone else feel the same way and interject? If so then it may turn in to a merry-go-round scenario. Someone has to bite the bullet at some point. Honour is all well and good; I used to be somewhat blinded by it when I was younger. I still value honour but it is one amongst several concepts I treasure. Pragmatism is another one.

I agree, if it's just a matter of, one of us has to stay I would be more inclined to let Garrus in this case take the hit if he volunteered. I was arguing the point that it was expect that Shepard would be sacrificing himself(it was option A) by default and someone would have to step in. I wouldn't let someone step in if the responsibility feel on me first.

It was much easier in dragon age, sleep with morrigan so i can live and stay with Leliana? Sure, thats not really a hard decision....

I never answer that poor Genie. But if that were to say happen, I have a brother after all, I would sacrifice myself because I know my brother is a coward.
(If neither of you press the button both die, or if both of you press the button both die, there is no double survival)

Though truthfully I'd spend the entire hour trying to break out haha.

And yes Honor and Pride are among my most valued traits.

Fair enough. Regarding DA:O there is also the choice of trying to persuade Alistair to do the deed with Morrigan. You could remain completely pure towards the lovely Leliana (but Morrigan just gives off that vibe of, "I'm great in bed. Do me." hahahaha).

[Lareit]

The_KFD_Case wrote...


Fair enough. Regarding DA:O there is also the choice of trying to persuade Alistair to do the deed with Morrigan. You could remain completely pure towards the lovely Leliana (but Morrigan just gives off that vibe of, "I'm great in bed. Do me." hahahaha).

I talked him into it on one playthrough...and immediatly Alt F4 when they were showing the romance scene with him instead, that just bugged me.

While I'd prefer to stay loyal to Leliana(and I was very disappointed I couldn't talk to her about it prior) I have no doubt even her unhardened self wouldn't agree it was the better choice.

Her hardned self probably would of asked to join in....

[Gerudan]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

but Morrigan just gives off that vibe of, "I'm great in bed. Do me." hahahaha

Who could resist that voice... 

[The_KFD_Case]

Gerudan wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

I disagree. While I was never an officer while in the military, one of the (hardest) lessons that a leader, any leader be it in the military or in the civilian world, needs to learn is whom to sacrifice, when and where to do it and for what purpose.

But it is a "hero game" and no army simulator. 

To paraphrase Die Hard 4.0 "Being a hero means you get to eat a lot of lonely meals."

And yes, ME2 is a game yet it emulates real life situations, concepts, feelings, etc. While perhaps not of quite the same galactic scale these types of scenarios are faced daily by various people around the world. Not just in the military. Just look at hospitals. It's rough out there.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 24 février 2010 - 03:07 .

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

I actually liked Morrigan, so DA:O's ending sucked for me. Yay, you saved the world, yay you're alive, but hey, your big love's gone.

At least I became King after that.

[Aardvark-8]

Have you guys seen this?

http://social.biowar...5/index/1404536
I've read half the first page and already got freaked out 
I mean, they're suggesting Tali shouldn't be a squadmate in ME3 just because she might have died in ME2.
I say, those who didn't work hard enough to get  "No one left behind" achievement don't deserve to import.
Besides, having Garrus and Tali in 2 games out of 3 would seem oddly asymmetrical IMO.
And I'd take Tali over Liara, Ashley and Wrex combined any day.

Anyway, we have to keep up the pressure 

Go, Tali, go!
Keelah se'lai.

[The_KFD_Case]

Gerudan wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

but Morrigan just gives off that vibe of, "I'm great in bed. Do me." hahahaha

Who could resist that voice... 

Ahhh! The delectable Claudia Black.

Claudia Black 1

Claudia Black 2

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 24 février 2010 - 03:19 .

[Gerudan]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

To paraphrase Die Hard 4.0 "Being a hero means you get to eat a lot of lonely meals." 

And yes, ME2 is a game yet it emulates real life situations, concepts, feelings, etc. While perhaps not of quite the same galactic scale these types of scenarios are faced daily by various people around the world. Not just in the military. Just look at hospitals. It's rough out there.

Sure, but still...if it's the end of the game and the Reapers would be defeated through the sacrifice, I would sacrifice Shep...well at least in most playthroughs anyway. 

[Gerudan]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Ahhh! The delectable Cladia Black.

Claudia Black 1

Claudia Black 2

I honestly didn't know her before DA:O. 

[Lareit]

Gerudan wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Ahhh! The delectable Cladia Black.

Claudia Black 1

Claudia Black 2

I honestly didn't know her before DA:O. 

I always thought she was hot back in Farscape.....hmm I never did watch much of that show after season 1.

[Aardvark-8]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

I actually liked Morrigan, so DA:O's ending sucked for me. Yay, you saved the world, yay you're alive, but hey, your big love's gone.
At least I became King after that.

Good for you. I became a lonely mage, obsessed with tracking down one shapeshifter bearing an Old God 

[Lord_Moose]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Lareit wrote...

Rakia_Time wrote...

 Reading that stuff about sacrificing someone made me think, what if in the end of ME3 you get an option :
a. Sacrificing yourself to save the galaxy and everyone you love
b. Someone else, lets say..Garrus offers to sacrifice himself so that you can live
c. Your LI has to die for everyone else to live
d. You all die togeter
What will you choose ?

*snip*

I disagree. Depends entirely on how you've treated those people and their loyalty to you. Sometimes people can surprise you in the most unexpected ways (for better or worse).

For one, Tali strikes me as being willing to sacrifice herself if need be. It's par for course in Quarian culture.

But KFD, even after i was a complete ****** to jacob he was still a little too bro'y It's very strange.
But id choose him to go anyway
Renegade option!
*Pats jacob on the shoulder* "Time to put yourself in the history books Taylor." Aww Hell No! "Go or i put out everything i can about your father to the news, destroying your familys reputation before you die sad and alone because you turned down miss perfect over there." *points at mirandfa who flips her hair* "Unlike you some of us have people who we care about or more important things to do before they die! Grunt has a clan he must respect, Thane has a son to think about, Mordin's mind is too great to waste on this, Garrus has a nurse he's got to go see, and I've Got A Home To Build."

"I'll tell them you died a hero."

[HereticSon]

Soon up to 500 pages ! ^^

[UFOash]

Aardvark-8 wrote...

Have you guys seen this?

http://social.biowar...5/index/1404536
I've read half the first page and already got freaked out 
I mean, they're suggesting Tali shouldn't be a squadmate in ME3 just because she might have died in ME2.
I say, those who didn't work hard enough to get  "No one left behind" achievement don't deserve to import.
Besides, having Garrus and Tali in 2 games out of 3 would seem oddly asymmetrical IMO.
And I'd take Tali over Liara, Ashley and Wrex combined any day.

Anyway, we have to keep up the pressure 

Go, Tali, go!
Keelah se'lai.

Tali died in mine
I figured I'd keep her in my squad so I could make sure she couldn't die & she ended up being carried away by seekers.

[Lareit]

Lord_Moose wrote...


But KFD, even after i was a complete ****** to jacob he was still a little too bro'y It's very strange.
But id choose him to go anyway
Renegade option!
*Pats jacob on the shoulder* "Time to put yourself in the history books Taylor." Aww Hell No! "Go or i put out everything i can about your father to the news, destroying your familys reputation before you die sad and alone because you turned down miss perfect over there." *points at mirandfa who flips her hair* "Unlike you some of us have people who we care about or more important things to do before they die! Grunt has a clan he must respect, Thane has a son to think about, Mordin's mind is too great to waste on this, Garrus has a nurse he's got to go see, and I've Got A Home To Build."

"I'll tell them you died a hero."

Ouch, Jacob before Thane and Modrin? Thats cold

Jacob might be boring, but morally he's one of the truly good people on the crew. I like that he was the only person more or less I didn't have to stop from shooting someone during the loyalty mission.(slight exaggeration)

[Lord_Moose]

UFOash wrote...

Aardvark-8 wrote...

Have you guys seen this?

http://social.biowar...5/index/1404536
I've read half the first page and already got freaked out 
I mean, they're suggesting Tali shouldn't be a squadmate in ME3 just because she might have died in ME2.
I say, those who didn't work hard enough to get  "No one left behind" achievement don't deserve to import.
Besides, having Garrus and Tali in 2 games out of 3 would seem oddly asymmetrical IMO.
And I'd take Tali over Liara, Ashley and Wrex combined any day.

Anyway, we have to keep up the pressure 

Go, Tali, go!
Keelah se'lai.

Tali died in mine
I figured I'd keep her in my squad so I could make sure she couldn't die & she ended up being carried away by seekers.

Thats what importing ME2 characters are for! *pats you on the back*
You keep all your levels, a second chance at saving that beloved character, as well has getting 50000 of each resource! still have plenty of Ezzo...

[The_KFD_Case]

Gerudan wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Ahhh! The delectable Cladia Black.

Claudia Black 1

Claudia Black 2

I honestly didn't know her before DA:O. 

I first came to know of her thanks to the now de-funct sci-fi show "Farscape".

[Gerudan]

Lareit wrote...

I always thought she was hot back in Farscape.....hmm I never did watch much of that show after season 1.

I don't watch that much TV and even if I do, movies and TV series are always dubbed here, so I wouldn't recognized her anyway. 

Modifié par Gerudan, 24 février 2010 - 03:25 .

[The_KFD_Case]

Lord_Moose wrote...

But KFD, even after i was a complete ****** to jacob he was still a little too bro'y It's very strange.
But id choose him to go anyway
Renegade option!
*Pats jacob on the shoulder* "Time to put yourself in the history books Taylor." Aww Hell No! "Go or i put out everything i can about your father to the news, destroying your familys reputation before you die sad and alone because you turned down miss perfect over there." *points at mirandfa who flips her hair* "Unlike you some of us have people who we care about or more important things to do before they die! Grunt has a clan he must respect, Thane has a son to think about, Mordin's mind is too great to waste on this, Garrus has a nurse he's got to go see, and I've Got A Home To Build."

"I'll tell them you died a hero."

My hero. <_<