137512 réponses à ce sujet

[Wally2905]

VampireCommando wrote...

you guys sure do like Tali dont you XD

Yes Sir, we do!  Not shy about showing it either


Tali 

[Mokthr]

AddoExAtrum wrote...

Lareit wrote...



I always consider that my conjectures could be inaccurate. My entire argument has been to descredit your theory.
Nothing more, nothing less. Everything I've posted has been either fact, chronological accounting of the events in the ME universe or theory designed to discredit your supposition that the repears do not require the citadel to gain access to the galaxy.

They obviously Do not need the citadel as they appear at the end of ME2 without using the citadel. They even state in ME1 that the citadel was left there for the sole purpose of directing how our culture develops so that they could simply come in and wipe out the seat of all government in a single motion that prevents the organics from mounting any kind of organized defense against them.

The citadel is a power play to knock us off balance for an easy mop up mission and nothing more. Noone said at any point that they HAD to have it. It is simply a fast way to strike us in a blind sidingly fashion as the ending of ME2 suggests. They obviously dont have to have it

Actually Vigil, the VI on Illos said that the Reapers needed the Citadel in order to get here. He said, that because Sovereign could not get the Keepers to activate the Citadel, the Reapers were trapped in dark space. So that is why Sovereign had to come out of hiding and find out what the hell went wrong.

[Scy Lancer]

Just you all watch. BioWare is going to make the galaxy be taken over with space monkeys and it will be a fight between space monkeys and Reapers.... Unless we hear different from the dev's anything is up for grabs.

[Exakil]

As for using the collecters. The reapers want something, why destroy us otherwise? they are logical machines, they wait for a certain point for a reason. Building a reaper could be that reason, that could be why they used the Collecters.

[AddoExAtrum]

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

.....If they were so close to us at the end of ME2 why risk tipping their
hand by using the collectors at all? Seems like they are giving away
their intentions by provoking humanity.

um yeah exactly thats our point......

Incorrect. The earlier argument was why are they using the citadel at all. If they could get here using mass relays at any time from where they are why would Nazara tip his hand.

Again I repeat as I have so many times, We are not Reapers. We do not know why they are doing this. How could they possibly create energy out of expending energy to wipe out all organics and all traces of civilization.

Again. Why use the Rachini at all in the history of ME1. If the reapers are in constant contact as suggested and they are however many years out it makes no sense at all for nazara to use Saren and the geth in ME1 he could of simply waited the extra 7 years for the fleet so the entire ME1 makes no sense by both of your statements.

The answer I have proposed is that they use the Citadel to blindside us and destroy our leadership for an easy victory. If they can do that does the extra 2000 years we were allowed to grow really matter if they are parked 7 years outside of us? They are still thousands of years more advanced than us they dont really care. Better to wait to destabilize us as they have countless times before than just fly in and tip their hand wouldnt you think?

[Lareit]

Exakil wrote...

Actually Lareit much of what i have read from you appears to be guesses without much of a base, or you extending something further than we know for sure, then using it to try and disprove his. The reality here is, we dont know what the reapers want for sure, we dont know how far away they are, and we dont know the way that they think. So we cant really do much can we, guesses are guesses, no one knows if they are wrong, until ME3 is released

We do know how far away they are. THe final scene shows them on the outside looking in at the Milky Way galaxy. The same galaxy that to cross from 1 end to the other takes 100 thousand light years and they are looking at it as if it's a singular object, they are so far from it.

This distance, combined with the events of Mass Effect 1, in regards to the need to open the Citadel's Relay is all the proof needed to say the repears are quite stuck out in the middle of nowhere without it.


This is my argument. This is what Add disputed back when this whole debate begun.

[Scy Lancer]

Wally2905 wrote...

VampireCommando wrote...

you guys sure do like Tali dont you XD

Yes Sir, we do!  Not shy about showing it either


Tali 

Tali? I thought this was about the Lions going to the super bowl.... oops.... Poor Lions....
GO TALI!!!!

[Khayness]

Destroying the 2.0 before it hit 1337 pages was cruel.

Better luck next time!

[AddoExAtrum]

Mokthr wrote...


Actually Vigil, the VI on Illos said that the Reapers needed the Citadel in order to get here. He said, that because Sovereign could not get the Keepers to activate the Citadel, the Reapers were trapped in dark space. So that is why Sovereign had to come out of hiding and find out what the hell went wrong.

Again if this is the TRUTH then the reapers should not have appeared in ME2 at all. Harbinger should not have been active and we should have been safe with the reapers trapped forever. That was simply a belief that the protheans had programmed into Vigil with no basis for fact. It was their own opinion. Even Vigil states he doesnt know why the reapers wipe us out every so many years.

And if that is why Sovereign came out of hiding why did he not continue his work earlier during the rachini war as they have suggested? Why go back to sleep and wait 2000 years to use Saren and the geth? Still makes no sense

[Exakil]

erm... Lareit, faster than light travel is avaliable to organics... reapers are stupid advanced compared to our tech... who is to say they cant get here faster... your making large assumptions there

[AddoExAtrum]

Lareit wrote...

We do know how far away they are. THe final scene shows them on the outside looking in at the Milky Way galaxy. The same galaxy that to cross from 1 end to the other takes 100 thousand light years and they are looking at it as if it's a singular object, they are so far from it.

This distance, combined with the events of Mass Effect 1, in regards to the need to open the Citadel's Relay is all the proof needed to say the repears are quite stuck out in the middle of nowhere without it.


This is my argument. This is what Add disputed back when this whole debate begun.

Again I state your belief cannot be correct. If they are over 100 thousand light years out as you state at the end of ME2 with no way to activate the citadel or a relay to get there faster Shep wont be alive when they get there in ME3 and the entire argument is mute

[The_KFD_Case]

Exakil wrote...

The_KFD_Case! Welcome back!

Thats the majority of what ive been trying to figure out right there, but i couldnt put it in words. So a big thank you is in order!

Hi Exakil and thank you! Anything else of interest (depending on one's tastes) that's been going on in the past 8-9 hours?

[Lareit]

AddoExAtrum wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

.....If they were so close to us at the end of ME2 why risk tipping their
hand by using the collectors at all? Seems like they are giving away
their intentions by provoking humanity.

um yeah exactly thats our point......

Incorrect. The earlier argument was why are they using the citadel at all. If they could get here using mass relays at any time from where they are why would Nazara tip his hand.

Again I repeat as I have so many times, We are not Reapers. We do not know why they are doing this. How could they possibly create energy out of expending energy to wipe out all organics and all traces of civilization.

Again. Why use the Rachini at all in the history of ME1. If the reapers are in constant contact as suggested and they are however many years out it makes no sense at all for nazara to use Saren and the geth in ME1 he could of simply waited the extra 7 years for the fleet so the entire ME1 makes no sense by both of your statements.

The answer I have proposed is that they use the Citadel to blindside us and destroy our leadership for an easy victory. If they can do that does the extra 2000 years we were allowed to grow really matter if they are parked 7 years outside of us? They are still thousands of years more advanced than us they dont really care. Better to wait to destabilize us as they have countless times before than just fly in and tip their hand wouldnt you think?

Why do you think, I THINK, they can get here in 7 years? That was your belief, not ours.
Going to caps this for emphasis

THEY CAN'T GET HERE WITHOUT THE CITADEL! (there is always the possiblilty of some new deus ex machina but any would require alot of explaining to not negate ME1)

[Exakil]

I generally dont start paying attention until the forum dies down to night activity... just this argument, some fan art, OP got edited, and talking about how awesome tali is i think. personally ive been drawing a destroyed city background for Archangel.

[Scy Lancer]

Exakil wrote...

I generally dont start paying attention until the forum dies down to night activity... just this argument, some fan art, OP got edited, and talking about how awesome tali is i think. personally ive been drawing a destroyed city background for Archangel.

I can
see Garrus with his sniper rifle on top of a mound of bodies. Gun
barrel still smoking, sun setting.
Caption.
Garrus: Keeping
Grave diggers employed.

[The_KFD_Case]

Lareit wrote...

I always consider that my conjectures could be inaccurate. My entire argument has been to descredit your theory.
Nothing more, nothing less. Everything I've posted has been either fact, chronological accounting of the events in the ME universe or theory designed to discredit your supposition that the repears do not require the citadel to gain access to the galaxy.

Then it would seem you may have a different definition of what constitutes "fact" than I, and perhaps some of the others, do. If it is really so clear cut, black and white "fact" then you should have little trouble empirically proving your claim. Over to you.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 19 février 2010 - 10:22 .

[Pauravi]

Mokthr wrote...

Actually Vigil, the VI on Illos said that the Reapers needed the Citadel in order to get here. He said, that because Sovereign could not get the Keepers to activate the Citadel, the Reapers were trapped in dark space.

But the Protheans don't know everything about the Reapers.  Vigil says they are trapped there, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is impossible for them to return without it.  How would the Protheans know that?  All they know is that the Reapers came through the Citadel relay, and that they needed the keeper signal to do it.  Without it they can't do their blitzkrieg and it makes the whole genocide operation much more difficult and less thorough.

It is also worth mentioning that flying in from dark space requires energy -- maybe even a significant portion of their reserves if they want to do it quickly.  That leaves them less capable of fighting the sustained battle that would be more likely to ensue without access to the Citadel relay.  There are many reasons besides simply time savings that they might want to use the Citadel relay.

[Angelraid]

Mk I'm gonna give this one more shot. Using an analogy. Then I'll shut up, and all will cheer.



Situation



Your trying to kill someone. You have a gun in your hand. The target is standing 5 feet away from you. All you have to do is point and shoot. There is also another gun, in a locker on the far side of the room. The key is on a table next to your target.



Do you



A) Point the gun at the target and shoot. (Reapers fly in normally in a few years and reap stuff)



Wait for the target to pick up the key, go over to the locker and get the gun (Wait for the galaxy to become advanced enough to possibly kill you)



Maybe I'm just weird but I'd have to choose A. The only reason I wouldn't is if I was unable too because in fact there is a large partition of bullet proof glass between me and the target and the only way to get to the other side is for some one already there to let me in. (Sovereign and the Citadel)

[Archonsg]

Something that was just swishing away in my mind :


Kelly: "Attention everyone! Can we come to order? Order please and the official meeting for BABES can get underway."
Jack: "Who the *bleep* come up with the name BABES?!"
Kelly: "Its for Bitter Angry B***ing Exes of Shepards, okies?
Jack : "B***ing is right, you *bleeping* psycho babbling...
Mirranda : "Jack, just let her be....:
Jack: "And I still don't *bleeping* take order's from you, cheerleader.."
Ashley : "Okies, what is the point of this, I got things to do..."
Liarra: "I am sure Kelly was about to tell us, when our ...colorful friend here interupted her."
Jack : " Screw you."
Mirranda : "Yes Kelly, why did you bring us all here?
Kelly: "Well, we all know each other...."
Jack: :Pffft! You sure as hell don't know me."
Mirranda: "Jack..."
Jack: "Okies! Okies!...so talk."
Kelly: "Well, as I was saying, we all know each other because of our ties with Shepard and I think it would help if we all cleared the air between us, just us ladies."
Everyon else: "Why?"
Kelly: "Because we were all used by Shepard damnit! I did all his reports, 12point Sans Serif he says, I filter his messages, the ammount of spam he gets! How does one person get 2349 articles of email from people he doesn't know in a day?!  I even feed his fish for him while he was away, and what did I get, dinner and a one night fling!"
Everyone else: *stares at Kelly*
Kelly: *mumbles to herself* "take deep breaths, thats it...deep breaths...back to old Kelly"
Kelly: So... I thought it would help to know, just between us ladies.
Miranda: That's all and you are already freaking out? *waves at her boobs* These cost 2 billion dollars in research to make them defy gravity and he ignores them ....for a Quarian!
Jack: "hah! and they say money can buy you happiness. But hey, what I *bleeping* know? I offered him to play artist with my tattoos and heck I'd even kill all of you just so he and I could be alone in this ship but does he want to? Noooooo... talk talk talk...all the time he talks and makes you think you are special..
Liarra: "Well at least I still got my memories of him and me....mind melding does leave an imprint...
Mirranda: So he did it with you  and mind to mind too? Is that his problem, he's not into humans?
Ashley: Hey, that right. You messed with his mind! You got him to sleep with an Alien and now he doesn't want us humans anymore!
Liarra : I did no such....
Jack: Arrrgggghhh! Too much talking ...just DIE!

Liarra, Jack , Mirranda turns on Biotic powers. Ashley pulls out AR, Kelly shreks and runs.

20mins later:
Kelly: That was therapeutic. Same time again tomorrow?

Modifié par Archonsg, 19 février 2010 - 10:25 .

[Exakil]

heh my plan was to have him sitting against a ruined wall, sniper rifle held by the barrel, stock resting against the ground, wearing full armor. ruined buildings and a cracked and faded eclipse logo on a wall nearby.

[Scy Lancer]

Exakil wrote...

heh my plan was to have him sitting against a ruined wall, sniper rifle held by the barrel, stock resting against the ground, wearing full armor. ruined buildings and a cracked and faded eclipse logo on a wall nearby.

...I'd put that on a T-Shirt.

[The_KFD_Case]

AddoExAtrum wrote...

Mokthr wrote...


Actually Vigil, the VI on Illos said that the Reapers needed the Citadel in order to get here. He said, that because Sovereign could not get the Keepers to activate the Citadel, the Reapers were trapped in dark space. So that is why Sovereign had to come out of hiding and find out what the hell went wrong.

Again if this is the TRUTH then the reapers should not have appeared in ME2 at all. Harbinger should not have been active and we should have been safe with the reapers trapped forever. That was simply a belief that the protheans had programmed into Vigil with no basis for fact. It was their own opinion. Even Vigil states he doesnt know why the reapers wipe us out every so many years.

And if that is why Sovereign came out of hiding why did he not continue his work earlier during the rachini war as they have suggested? Why go back to sleep and wait 2000 years to use Saren and the geth? Still makes no sense

Personally I'm not convinced the Reapers actually need any other species in order to successfully carry out their task. It seems just a likely to me that they are simply being coldly calculating and strategic about the whole affair. If you can enlist the aid - needed or otherwise - of others then it may increase the chances of success. Sowing discord and chaos behind your enemies' lines is always an advantage when fighting someone as it would undermine the chance and effectiveness of a united stand against the income Reaper fleet.

Perhaps the Reapers that were active were simply trying to soften up their targets before the main cavalry charge and if those attempts actually succeeded in doing the job for the main Reaper fleet earlier than expected then it's a bonus. It hasn't worked so now the big guns are being pulled out. That's just as plausible a theory though it may not be accurate.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 19 février 2010 - 10:27 .

[Lareit]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

Lareit wrote...

I always consider that my conjectures could be inaccurate. My entire argument has been to descredit your theory.
Nothing more, nothing less. Everything I've posted has been either fact, chronological accounting of the events in the ME universe or theory designed to discredit your supposition that the repears do not require the citadel to gain access to the galaxy.

Then it would seem you may have a different definition of what constitutes "fact" than I, and perhaps some of the others, do. If it is really so clear cut, black and white "fact" then you should have little trouble empirically proving your claim. Over to you.

Don't be conceited, I also mentioned I use theory in my arguments. I can't believe you're taking his side when he's the one arguing the repears could fly to our galaxy willy nilly whenever they want.

[Exakil]

That would be one hell of a T-Shirt 0_0

[AddoExAtrum]

Lareit wrote...



Why do you think, I THINK, they can get here in 7 years? That was your belief, not ours.

Going to caps this for emphasis



THEY CAN'T GET HERE WITHOUT THE CITADEL! (there is always the possiblilty of some new deus ex machina but any would require alot of explaining to not negate ME1)

LOL if they cant get here without the Citadel then once again importing shep from me2 to me3 is pointless. your own argument is still faulty in the belief that Reapers are inferior in their means of travel. Remember THEY BUILT THE CITADEL AND THE RELAYS SPECIFICALLY TO GUIDE OUR OWN DEVELOPMENT. If they built the technology you can bet they can use it in ways you haven't even begun to think of.



break out of your own box and think strategically like a cold calculating machine would. You are god! You are the most advanced thing that there is! The lowly organics STILL DONT KNOW how the Citadel was built or even the purpose of the Keepers! What the hell do you care if they fiddle around for another 2000 years while you set up a perfect blindside?



God your own stupidity is the fact that you are assuming the Reapers are acting with any kind of human logic. They are machines that have their own agenda that you dont understand. For all you know Nazara was drifting in the Terminus systems the entire freaking 2000 years like that derelict reaper TIM sent you to and noone ever noticed him.



And as for the 7 year comment I never once said that either you troll. Go back and check the posts for the quotes you will see that it was suggested by Archonsg that ME3 would begin 2-3 years after the end of ME2. Which puts the entire timeline of the game from ME1 to ME3 occuring within what? 6-7 years? Get your own facts straight.



I suggested that it was stupid for them to wait that long when the Reapers are a highly advanced race of machines that built the freaking Citadel and the relays as well as plotted the entire course for all organic civilizations to develop. They are obviously tactically smart enough to be able to get here when they damn well please.



You are suggesting they are hundreds of thousands of years away at the end of ME2 and cant get here which is just stupid cause then ME3 cant have shepard