137512 réponses à ce sujet

[alickar]

Phil725 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...
Thats why 40k is great:D
In all seriousness I like TIM but I wouldnt actually want to rule over other species. Id want to be equal with them all and live peacefully with them.

My sword is Hatred.
My armor is Contempt.
In the name of the Emperor, let none survive.

I'm not opposed to TIM's plan to make humanity strong.  But I am opposed to his methods.  Cerberus could be a worthwhile organization, with the right guidance.  TIM's got a point:  the Council has the Spectres, the salarians have the STG, the asari have their commandos, humanity needs a "dirty deeds" team, too.

Yeah but they have no regulations, and are a bit ruthless at times.

Agreed, but what about the other groups?  The whole point of the Spectres is that they obey no laws.  The STG's signature deed is having nearly wiped out another race with a biological weapon.  It's a rough galaxy out there.  I don't support what Cerberus did to Jack, or their work with the Thorian, husks, rachni, etc. but I would like to know that there are some hard-eyed people out there ready to step in if humanity faces existential threats.

One other thing to keep in mind, the Mass Effect universe is incredibly desensitized towards death as a whole.  From the genophage, to the batarians attacking and enslaving children, to Cerberus.  It isn't the same as our little world.  It's important to keep in mind when looking at events in Mass Effect.

dude u cannot stop everything from dying but you try too

[cBselfmonkey]

ReconTeam wrote...

Right so did Tali have the same legion of fanboys in ME1? I think she is a good character too but 800 pages? Plus two previous threads on the subject?

'Dem hips' and 'Dat ass' have great power my friend.

Modifié par cBselfmonkey, 27 février 2010 - 03:42 .

[alickar]

MarineBorn wrote...

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

you know, in a kinda wierd way, I actually trusted TIM. He makes some tough decisions,
but isn't unethical per say. (remember the Jack loyalty mission) Since I don't know if he
was involved w/ the quarian incident I can't hold that against him. Cerberus' actions are
also up for debate, seeing as TIM is largely in charge but doesn't control everything.
However, he should have been more upfront with you. That said, I felt some dialog
options w/ him that were paragon were unusually negative. I can also see the logic in
wanting to save the collector station. But the whole dominance thing might be kinda
risky and saving the facility could lead to a number of problems.

He was involved with the Quarian incident, read Asension you will learn to hate that son of BlTCH.

if i see him i will throw a chair at him a eat his face off!!!!

[NuclearBuddha]

Phil725 wrote...

One other thing to keep in mind, the Mass Effect universe is incredibly desensitized towards death as a whole.  From the genophage, to the batarians attacking and enslaving children, to Cerberus.  It isn't the same as our little world.  It's important to keep in mind when looking at events in Mass Effect.

No kidding.  IRL, someone would've put in the boots on the batarians by now.  Those guys are just plain scum

[The_KFD_Case]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...
Thats why 40k is great:D
In all seriousness I like TIM but I wouldnt actually want to rule over other species. Id want to be equal with them all and live peacefully with them.

My sword is Hatred.
My armor is Contempt.
In the name of the Emperor, let none survive.

I'm not opposed to TIM's plan to make humanity strong.  But I am opposed to his methods.  Cerberus could be a worthwhile organization, with the right guidance.  TIM's got a point:  the Council has the Spectres, the salarians have the STG, the asari have their commandos, humanity needs a "dirty deeds" team, too.

Yeah but they have no regulations, and are a bit ruthless at times.

Agreed, but what about the other groups?  The whole point of the Spectres is that they obey no laws.  The STG's signature deed is having nearly wiped out another race with a biological weapon.  It's a rough galaxy out there.  I don't support what Cerberus did to Jack, or their work with the Thorian, husks, rachni, etc. but I would like to know that there are some hard-eyed people out there ready to step in if humanity faces existential threats.

Agreed. Even in our contemporary world one of the reasons that many of us can sleep safer at night is due to the fact that there are hard men and women doing things behind the scenes that we would in some cases be shocked and outraged about. I object to some of the methods, just as I do with Cerberus, but I do not object to the objective of trying to keep us safe and advancing our lot in life or the cosmos.

[alickar]

u r almost hyptnotize by them hyps n azz O_O must keep typing until they announce tali is goin to be a LI in mass 3 O_O

[tiberius_adamantine]

MarineBorn wrote...

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

you know, in a kinda wierd way, I actually trusted TIM. He makes some tough decisions,
but isn't unethical per say. (remember the Jack loyalty mission) Since I don't know if he
was involved w/ the quarian incident I can't hold that against him. Cerberus' actions are
also up for debate, seeing as TIM is largely in charge but doesn't control everything.
However, he should have been more upfront with you. That said, I felt some dialog
options w/ him that were paragon were unusually negative. I can also see the logic in
wanting to save the collector station. But the whole dominance thing might be kinda
risky and saving the facility could lead to a number of problems.

He was involved with the Quarian incident, read Asension you will learn to hate that son of BlTCH.

oh...I ordered the book but haven't received it yet. What happened?

[The_KFD_Case]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

One other thing to keep in mind, the Mass Effect universe is incredibly desensitized towards death as a whole.  From the genophage, to the batarians attacking and enslaving children, to Cerberus.  It isn't the same as our little world.  It's important to keep in mind when looking at events in Mass Effect.

No kidding.  IRL, someone would've put in the boots on the batarians by now.  Those guys are just plain scum

Even IRL there's a ton of violence and lot of desensitized people. One quick example: The child soldiers in Africa.

[NuclearBuddha]

alickar wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

One other thing to keep in mind, the Mass Effect universe is incredibly desensitized towards death as a whole.  From the genophage, to the batarians attacking and enslaving children, to Cerberus.  It isn't the same as our little world.  It's important to keep in mind when looking at events in Mass Effect.

dude u cannot stop everything from dying but you try too

Alickar, I'm not sure if you're doing this by accident, but sometimes you're the voice of wisdom.

[wolfstanus]

Somebody1003 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...
Thats why 40k is great:D
In all seriousness I like TIM but I wouldnt actually want to rule over other species. Id want to be equal with them all and live peacefully with them.

My sword is Hatred.
My armor is Contempt.
In the name of the Emperor, let none survive.

I'm not opposed to TIM's plan to make humanity strong.  But I am opposed to his methods.  Cerberus could be a worthwhile organization, with the right guidance.  TIM's got a point:  the Council has the Spectres, the salarians have the STG, the asari have their commandos, humanity needs a "dirty deeds" team, too.

Yeah but they have no regulations, and are a bit ruthless at times.

Agreed, but what about the other groups?  The whole point of the Spectres is that they obey no laws.  The STG's signature deed is having nearly wiped out another race with a biological weapon.  It's a rough galaxy out there.  I don't support what Cerberus did to Jack, or their work with the Thorian, husks, rachni, etc. but I would like to know that there are some hard-eyed people out there ready to step in if humanity faces existential threats.

Well I support cerberus but I just hope they dont do any more of those experiments like Jack or rachni or anything.

As long as TiM is in charge they will keep going like they are... TiM decided humanity should be dominate during the first contact war.

[alickar]

Somebody1003 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

MarineBorn wrote...

Tim tried to blow up a ship filled with Quarian families, not soldiers but women and children. He has his own men killed just to get a point across. He had no honor and helps no one without thinking he will gain something.

Tim is a ruthless, tyrannical, bastard that lets nothing stop him in satisfying hi sown selfish intrests. People like him need to be stopped before they warp to many others into trusting them, when they never plain on returning the trust.

Anyone that could kill innocents without remorse is not human but some kind of ghoulish monster. Tim also put the life of a young girl in danger by druging her with biotic drugs and various things that almost killed her, and after all that he still hunts her trying to complete his damn mission. He has lost his own grip on what it means to be a civilized human and needs to be reminded, which if someone tried he would not listen due to a ego the size of Australia.

This is my opinion of TIM.

I really need to read Ascension.  It just sounds like a different picture of TIM than ME2.

Sometimes you need to kill innocent people to get a job done. Kill a few save a thousand.

if u have another way ud do it save if u can kill if u cant

[FsDxRAGE]

cBselfmonkey wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Right so did Tali have the same legion of fanboys in ME1? I think she is a good character too but 800 pages? Plus two previous threads on the subject?

'Dem hips' and 'Dat ass' have great power my friend.

chicken feet bro, your missing the chicken feet

[Angelraid]

Phil725 wrote...

Snip*


We have differing opinions on that then.  First of all, the game makes it pretty clear that there is no evidence linking TIM personally to any of those things, the Teltin facility specifically even has its members say they went rogue. 

And even if he was responsible?  He has still saved many more lives than he has ended by reviving Shepard.  People look at the 5 marines killed by Thresher Maws in ME1, and that has a more profound effect on people than the hundreds of thousands of colonists who would be collector meat without him.  The reason is that the former is a more personal loss.  You see the wasted lives.  I'm not defending Cerberus' actions, but they have done way more good than people give them credit for.

As far as TIM, he doesn't hide what he wants.  He wants humanity to be the superior race in the galaxy.  He also knows that the reapers must be stopped for that to happen (he's also the only person with power in the game to acknowledge them,) until the reapers are defeated, you share a common goal, and TIM will be a better ally than anyone else.  Once the reapers are gone, and he has no use for you, then he becomes a problem.

They went rogue true (or at least thats how it looks), but if you ask Miranda about it she says that TIM ordered the facility shut down before Jack escaped. Which is a funny way of putting it cuase it makes him look innocent if you dont look at it closely. Miranda kinda sidesteps the question, Cuase whats not said is if he supported its conception initially. And considering that miranda hides it, I'd say that he did.

Secondly TIM does not get credit for the actions of sheppard. he gets credit for saving sheppard but not for what sheppard does afterward.

Also it wasnt just 5 marines on akuze. it was an entire colony that cerberus loosed the thresher maws on. And even if it was to save other colonies there are better ways to go about it.

And finally if you save the collector ship he all but states that he wants humans to dominate the galaxy not just to keep humanity safe.

[Phil725]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

you know, in a kinda wierd way, I actually trusted TIM. He makes some tough decisions,
but isn't unethical per say. (remember the Jack loyalty mission) Since I don't know if he
was involved w/ the quarian incident I can't hold that against him. Cerberus' actions are
also up for debate, seeing as TIM is largely in charge but doesn't control everything.
However, he should have been more upfront with you. That said, I felt some dialog
options w/ him that were paragon were unusually negative. I can also see the logic in
wanting to save the collector station. But the whole dominance thing might be kinda
risky and saving the facility could lead to a number of problems.

This is pretty much my point of view.  As long as the reapers are around, TIM is one of your best friends.  If you were a dog of the council still, the galaxy would end while you twiddle your thumbs. 

I also have not read Ascension, but it does seem to me like the books paint TIM in a different light, one Bioware didn't want to copy into ME2.  He is a much better person in ME2 than he is described in ME1 and Asension.  The games are also more canan than the books, so when in doubt, I'll side with the game.

[The_KFD_Case]

Somebody1003 wrote...

Sometimes you need to kill innocent people to get a job done. Kill a few save a thousand.

It's a slippery slope and warrants constant monitoring, IMO.

[Captain Noodle]

To repeat myself, Trigger Man: Part Three is in my blog, as well as the other two parts. It's mostly about an original character, but Tali is focused on too. Comments and criticism are appreciated.

[DrakeforBake]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

One other thing to keep in mind, the Mass Effect universe is incredibly desensitized towards death as a whole.  From the genophage, to the batarians attacking and enslaving children, to Cerberus.  It isn't the same as our little world.  It's important to keep in mind when looking at events in Mass Effect.

No kidding.  IRL, someone would've put in the boots on the batarians by now.  Those guys are just plain scum

It bothers me that the Batarians are known terrorists but they purposely withdrew from the council embassies by choice.

Quarians made rogue synthetics, fought and lost and then got booted from the embassies.

So a race that purposely goes out of it's way to mess with EVERYBODY gets a better treatment than the race that actually cooperated? I know AI is bad and all but exile?

[NuclearBuddha]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

One other thing to keep in mind, the Mass Effect universe is incredibly desensitized towards death as a whole.  From the genophage, to the batarians attacking and enslaving children, to Cerberus.  It isn't the same as our little world.  It's important to keep in mind when looking at events in Mass Effect.

No kidding.  IRL, someone would've put in the boots on the batarians by now.  Those guys are just plain scum

Even IRL there's a ton of violence and lot of desensitized people. One quick example: The child soldiers in Africa.

True, but it's not asomething affecting "us" (the western world in general, I guess) personally, so it gets ignored.  The batarians are specifically jacking around with the Alliance.

[alickar]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

alickar wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

One other thing to keep in mind, the Mass Effect universe is incredibly desensitized towards death as a whole.  From the genophage, to the batarians attacking and enslaving children, to Cerberus.  It isn't the same as our little world.  It's important to keep in mind when looking at events in Mass Effect.

dude u cannot stop everything from dying but you try too

Alickar, I'm not sure if you're doing this by accident, but sometimes you're the voice of wisdom.

im not doin it by accident if i wuz in sheps bootz it save everyone i cud and if i had no choice i wud kill them n cry

[Alanosborn1991]