137512 réponses à ce sujet

[alickar]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Earlier someone had said they really liked what people are calling the "starcraft tali."  If whoever that was is still around, this is for them.

i like tht its funneh the way shep smiles lol

[NuclearBuddha]

Somebody1003 wrote...

camoboy_19 wrote...

I can see what you are trying to say but the evil of his actions, and his intentions, can never be justified. He ressurected Shepard because he wanted to use Shepard for humanity's, and more so his, advance. If you learned of how Anderson got kicked out of Spectres (Sarren killed 500 innocents with pollution just to get one guy wanted by the Council) You can see where the ideology of my statement comes from. Theres a time to be harsh, even a renegade, but people like TIM and Sarren don't realize that should be the last resort

Saren got the job done, isnt that what really matters?

Not to the innocents he killed.

[alickar]

Somebody1003 wrote...

alickar wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

alickar wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Snip*


We have differing opinions on that then.  First of all, the game makes it pretty clear that there is no evidence linking TIM personally to any of those things, the Teltin facility specifically even has its members say they went rogue. 

And even if he was responsible?  He has still saved many more lives than he has ended by reviving Shepard.  People look at the 5 marines killed by Thresher Maws in ME1, and that has a more profound effect on people than the hundreds of thousands of colonists who would be collector meat without him.  The reason is that the former is a more personal loss.  You see the wasted lives.  I'm not defending Cerberus' actions, but they have done way more good than people give them credit for.

As far as TIM, he doesn't hide what he wants.  He wants humanity to be the superior race in the galaxy.  He also knows that the reapers must be stopped for that to happen (he's also the only person with power in the game to acknowledge them,) until the reapers are defeated, you share a common goal, and TIM will be a better ally than anyone else.  Once the reapers are gone, and he has no use for you, then he becomes a problem.

They went rogue true (or at least thats how it looks), but if you ask Miranda about it she says that TIM ordered the facility shut down before Jack escaped. Which is a funny way of putting it cuase it makes him look innocent if you dont look at it closely. Miranda kinda sidesteps the question, Cuase whats not said is if he supported its conception initially. And considering that miranda hides it, I'd say that he did.

Secondly TIM does not get credit for the actions of sheppard. he gets credit for saving sheppard but not for what sheppard does afterward.

Also it wasnt just 5 marines on akuze. it was an entire colony that cerberus loosed the thresher maws on. And even if it was to save other colonies there are better ways to go about it.

And finally if you save the collector ship he all but states that he wants humans to dominate the galaxy not just to keep humanity safe.

How does TIM not get credit for saving the colonists in the Terminus systems?  He saw a problem, and stopped it the only way he could, by using an insane amount of resources to bring back the one guy who could.  Just because there's a period in the middle where TIM isn't directly involved, doesn't mean he wasn't responsible.  Without him, every one of those colonists is dead.  I don't see any way around that statement, which means he gets credit.

Are there better ways of accomplishing what TIM wants than turning colonies into husks?  Yeah, but it may take them 10 years to learn what a week could tell them.  TIM is just the ultimate renegade in that respect.  He will do whatever it takes.  Does this make him a bad person?  Maybe, but the whole "ends justifies the means" thing has to hold some water.

And as far as using the collector base to make humans dominate the galaxy, that's irrelevant to Shepard's concerns for ME3.  TIM knows about the reaper's threat.  He will use the collector base to help defeat them first, and Shepard knows that.  If we have to deal with TIM and his collector base after the reapers?  I'm not too concerned.

like i said if he revived and he told u to kill 1 million people would u

Of course not, but that's irrelevant to my whole point.  TIM wouldn't ask you.  He isn't a terrorist.  Everything he does has a bigger goal behind it.

If TIM revived me and told me to kill a million people to save a billion?  I'd like to think I'd be able to do it.

even if they were innocents and they did nothing to u and no one else u r sick

You wouldnt kill a few to save many?

dude i wud not kill them unless they did something wrong i wouldent just shoot them for no reason

[The_KFD_Case]

alickar wrote...

like i said if he revived and he told u to kill 1 million people would u

If it saved millions, or billions, or even trillions of more lives, how could you not? Problem is the future is unknown to a large extent and thus there is no guarantee that anything you do will turn out precisely as expected. That said, there can be compelling evidence that can be very accurate in predicting what a likely future outcome would be. If the stakes are perceived to be high enough, such as the destruction of trillions of sapient beings, then yes I would logically agree that sacrificing a million lives is worth it. Then you have to determine who dies. I can imagine feeling sick to my stomach and possibly not wanting to live after making such a decision. The mantle of power and leadership can be a heavy burden.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 27 février 2010 - 04:11 .

[camoboy_19]

Somebody1003 wrote...

camoboy_19 wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Snip*


We have differing opinions on that then.  First of all, the game makes it pretty clear that there is no evidence linking TIM personally to any of those things, the Teltin facility specifically even has its members say they went rogue. 

And even if he was responsible?  He has still saved many more lives than he has ended by reviving Shepard.  People look at the 5 marines killed by Thresher Maws in ME1, and that has a more profound effect on people than the hundreds of thousands of colonists who would be collector meat without him.  The reason is that the former is a more personal loss.  You see the wasted lives.  I'm not defending Cerberus' actions, but they have done way more good than people give them credit for.

As far as TIM, he doesn't hide what he wants.  He wants humanity to be the superior race in the galaxy.  He also knows that the reapers must be stopped for that to happen (he's also the only person with power in the game to acknowledge them,) until the reapers are defeated, you share a common goal, and TIM will be a better ally than anyone else.  Once the reapers are gone, and he has no use for you, then he becomes a problem.

They went rogue true (or at least thats how it looks), but if you ask Miranda about it she says that TIM ordered the facility shut down before Jack escaped. Which is a funny way of putting it cuase it makes him look innocent if you dont look at it closely. Miranda kinda sidesteps the question, Cuase whats not said is if he supported its conception initially. And considering that miranda hides it, I'd say that he did.

Secondly TIM does not get credit for the actions of sheppard. he gets credit for saving sheppard but not for what sheppard does afterward.

Also it wasnt just 5 marines on akuze. it was an entire colony that cerberus loosed the thresher maws on. And even if it was to save other colonies there are better ways to go about it.

And finally if you save the collector ship he all but states that he wants humans to dominate the galaxy not just to keep humanity safe.

How does TIM not get credit for saving the colonists in the Terminus systems?  He saw a problem, and stopped it the only way he could, by using an insane amount of resources to bring back the one guy who could.  Just because there's a period in the middle where TIM isn't directly involved, doesn't mean he wasn't responsible.  Without him, every one of those colonists is dead.  I don't see any way around that statement, which means he gets credit.

Are there better ways of accomplishing what TIM wants than turning colonies into husks?  Yeah, but it may take them 10 years to learn what a week could tell them.  TIM is just the ultimate renegade in that respect.  He will do whatever it takes.  Does this make him a bad person?  Maybe, but the whole "ends justifies the means" thing has to hold some water.

And as far as using the collector base to make humans dominate the galaxy, that's irrelevant to Shepard's concerns for ME3.  TIM knows about the reaper's threat.  He will use the collector base to help defeat them first, and Shepard knows that.  If we have to deal with TIM and his collector base after the reapers?  I'm not too concerned.

I can see what you are trying to say but the evil of his actions, and his intentions, can never be justified. He ressurected Shepard because he wanted to use Shepard for humanity's, and more so his, advance. If you learned of how Anderson got kicked out of Spectres (Sarren killed 500 innocents with pollution just to get one guy wanted by the Council) You can see where the ideology of my statement comes from. Theres a time to be harsh, even a renegade, but people like TIM and Sarren don't realize that should be the last resort

Saren got the job done, isnt that what really matters?

The end isn't enough to justify the means. If the factory had to be destroyed, then the workers and other populace could have been saved. Catching one man doesn't justify the death of 500 innocents. Cerberus is the same. The terrorism they use to do what they think is right is wrong in every sense of the word

[Jake71887]

 Guys.... GUYS... these conversations are really boring.. needs more Tali

[camoboy_19]

Somebody1003 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

camoboy_19 wrote...

I can see what you are trying to say but the evil of his actions, and his intentions, can never be justified. He ressurected Shepard because he wanted to use Shepard for humanity's, and more so his, advance. If you learned of how Anderson got kicked out of Spectres (Sarren killed 500 innocents with pollution just to get one guy wanted by the Council) You can see where the ideology of my statement comes from. Theres a time to be harsh, even a renegade, but people like TIM and Sarren don't realize that should be the last resort

Saren got the job done, isnt that what really matters?

Not to the innocents he killed.

That isnt any of his concern though, he did what he had to do.

He didn't have to. Those people didn't have to die. That man would have been captured all the same

[DrakeforBake]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

The council is nothing if not short-sighted.  What they did to the quarians makes perfect sense if you're just thinking about the present time.  Someone gets punished for unleashing an AI race, and then the issue is settled.  They get to congratulate themselves for upholding the laws without actually doing anything.  See how convenient that is?

If they gave two craps about the future, they would've done something about the geth right then.  But they didn't.  They swept the quarians under the rug and, stuck their fingers in their ear-analogues, and went, "lalalala, everythings fixed!"

The problem with that though is that they closed off all communication with the Quarian people by evicting their embassy. No embassy no representation, no way to to be a part of the community. No control over their lives.

The Quarians just about settled a world but had the mind to go to the council and say they were going to.

The council then backtracked and said they were awarding rights to the Elcor a month after the Quarians made planetfall. They took all the effort the Quarians did in finding, charting and settling the planet and smiled saying GTFO or we'll turn your people to glass with an orbital bombardment.

The council is specifically gearing for the downfall of the Quarians. They refuse to talk to them and all efforts by the Quarians to play by the rules just gets a swift boot to the quad.

To be a Quarian is to be the laughing stock of the galactic stage. Their only 2 options are to either retake their home from a genocidal machine race or to go well beyond known council space to settle on uncharted worlds beyond council influence and aid.

There's no happy ending for these people without intervention.

[alickar]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

alickar wrote...

like i said if he revived and he told u to kill 1 million people would u

If it saved millions, or billions, or even trillions of more lives, how could you not? Problem is the future unknown to a large extent and thus there is no guarantee that anything you do will turn out precisely as expected. That said, there can be compelling evidence that can be very accurate in predicting what a likely future outcome would be. If the stakes are perceived to be high enough, such as the destruction of trillions of sapient beings, then yes I would logically agree that sacrificing a million lives is worth it. Then you have to determine who dies. I can imagine feeling sick to my stomach and possibly not wanting to live after making such a decision. The mantle of power and leadership can be a heavy burden.

well if he told u to kill ur own teammates wud u if u wud u r very sick

[Phil725]

Well, the quotes are getting giant, so I'll just respond here. The world isn't some ideological movie. There isn't always a charm option to every problem. Sometimes the only options are kill 100 or kill a thousand. In that case, you should kill 100. If there is an option to kill none, by all means, go with that. But you're fooling yourself if you think there is a happy ending to every possible problem.

[alickar]

need a tali pic please to stop this nonsense

[alickar]

Somebody1003 wrote...

alickar wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

alickar wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

alickar wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Snip*


We have differing opinions on that then.  First of all, the game makes it pretty clear that there is no evidence linking TIM personally to any of those things, the Teltin facility specifically even has its members say they went rogue. 

And even if he was responsible?  He has still saved many more lives than he has ended by reviving Shepard.  People look at the 5 marines killed by Thresher Maws in ME1, and that has a more profound effect on people than the hundreds of thousands of colonists who would be collector meat without him.  The reason is that the former is a more personal loss.  You see the wasted lives.  I'm not defending Cerberus' actions, but they have done way more good than people give them credit for.

As far as TIM, he doesn't hide what he wants.  He wants humanity to be the superior race in the galaxy.  He also knows that the reapers must be stopped for that to happen (he's also the only person with power in the game to acknowledge them,) until the reapers are defeated, you share a common goal, and TIM will be a better ally than anyone else.  Once the reapers are gone, and he has no use for you, then he becomes a problem.

They went rogue true (or at least thats how it looks), but if you ask Miranda about it she says that TIM ordered the facility shut down before Jack escaped. Which is a funny way of putting it cuase it makes him look innocent if you dont look at it closely. Miranda kinda sidesteps the question, Cuase whats not said is if he supported its conception initially. And considering that miranda hides it, I'd say that he did.

Secondly TIM does not get credit for the actions of sheppard. he gets credit for saving sheppard but not for what sheppard does afterward.

Also it wasnt just 5 marines on akuze. it was an entire colony that cerberus loosed the thresher maws on. And even if it was to save other colonies there are better ways to go about it.

And finally if you save the collector ship he all but states that he wants humans to dominate the galaxy not just to keep humanity safe.

How does TIM not get credit for saving the colonists in the Terminus systems?  He saw a problem, and stopped it the only way he could, by using an insane amount of resources to bring back the one guy who could.  Just because there's a period in the middle where TIM isn't directly involved, doesn't mean he wasn't responsible.  Without him, every one of those colonists is dead.  I don't see any way around that statement, which means he gets credit.

Are there better ways of accomplishing what TIM wants than turning colonies into husks?  Yeah, but it may take them 10 years to learn what a week could tell them.  TIM is just the ultimate renegade in that respect.  He will do whatever it takes.  Does this make him a bad person?  Maybe, but the whole "ends justifies the means" thing has to hold some water.

And as far as using the collector base to make humans dominate the galaxy, that's irrelevant to Shepard's concerns for ME3.  TIM knows about the reaper's threat.  He will use the collector base to help defeat them first, and Shepard knows that.  If we have to deal with TIM and his collector base after the reapers?  I'm not too concerned.

like i said if he revived and he told u to kill 1 million people would u

Of course not, but that's irrelevant to my whole point.  TIM wouldn't ask you.  He isn't a terrorist.  Everything he does has a bigger goal behind it.

If TIM revived me and told me to kill a million people to save a billion?  I'd like to think I'd be able to do it.

even if they were innocents and they did nothing to u and no one else u r sick

You wouldnt kill a few to save many?

dude i wud not kill them unless they did something wrong i wouldent just shoot them for no reason

So you'd let the billions die just so you can feel good about yourself?

no i means he wanted u to kill 1 million innocents just for his amusment wud u

[NuclearBuddha]

Somebody1003 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

camoboy_19 wrote...

I can see what you are trying to say but the evil of his actions, and his intentions, can never be justified. He ressurected Shepard because he wanted to use Shepard for humanity's, and more so his, advance. If you learned of how Anderson got kicked out of Spectres (Sarren killed 500 innocents with pollution just to get one guy wanted by the Council) You can see where the ideology of my statement comes from. Theres a time to be harsh, even a renegade, but people like TIM and Sarren don't realize that should be the last resort

Saren got the job done, isnt that what really matters?

Not to the innocents he killed.

That isnt any of his concern though, he did what he had to do.

True, but that would make him a monster.  It's not as if he was saving the galaxy by killing innocents, he was disrupting a weapons smuggling ring or something.

[DarkwanderStorm]

Jake71887 wrote...

 Guys.... GUYS... these conversations are really boring.. needs more Tali

i agree to the full extent of this pic:D

[camoboy_19]

Somebody1003 wrote...

camoboy_19 wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

camoboy_19 wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Geth Hunter Alpha wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Snip*


We have differing opinions on that then.  First of all, the game makes it pretty clear that there is no evidence linking TIM personally to any of those things, the Teltin facility specifically even has its members say they went rogue. 

And even if he was responsible?  He has still saved many more lives than he has ended by reviving Shepard.  People look at the 5 marines killed by Thresher Maws in ME1, and that has a more profound effect on people than the hundreds of thousands of colonists who would be collector meat without him.  The reason is that the former is a more personal loss.  You see the wasted lives.  I'm not defending Cerberus' actions, but they have done way more good than people give them credit for.

As far as TIM, he doesn't hide what he wants.  He wants humanity to be the superior race in the galaxy.  He also knows that the reapers must be stopped for that to happen (he's also the only person with power in the game to acknowledge them,) until the reapers are defeated, you share a common goal, and TIM will be a better ally than anyone else.  Once the reapers are gone, and he has no use for you, then he becomes a problem.

They went rogue true (or at least thats how it looks), but if you ask Miranda about it she says that TIM ordered the facility shut down before Jack escaped. Which is a funny way of putting it cuase it makes him look innocent if you dont look at it closely. Miranda kinda sidesteps the question, Cuase whats not said is if he supported its conception initially. And considering that miranda hides it, I'd say that he did.

Secondly TIM does not get credit for the actions of sheppard. he gets credit for saving sheppard but not for what sheppard does afterward.

Also it wasnt just 5 marines on akuze. it was an entire colony that cerberus loosed the thresher maws on. And even if it was to save other colonies there are better ways to go about it.

And finally if you save the collector ship he all but states that he wants humans to dominate the galaxy not just to keep humanity safe.

How does TIM not get credit for saving the colonists in the Terminus systems?  He saw a problem, and stopped it the only way he could, by using an insane amount of resources to bring back the one guy who could.  Just because there's a period in the middle where TIM isn't directly involved, doesn't mean he wasn't responsible.  Without him, every one of those colonists is dead.  I don't see any way around that statement, which means he gets credit.

Are there better ways of accomplishing what TIM wants than turning colonies into husks?  Yeah, but it may take them 10 years to learn what a week could tell them.  TIM is just the ultimate renegade in that respect.  He will do whatever it takes.  Does this make him a bad person?  Maybe, but the whole "ends justifies the means" thing has to hold some water.

And as far as using the collector base to make humans dominate the galaxy, that's irrelevant to Shepard's concerns for ME3.  TIM knows about the reaper's threat.  He will use the collector base to help defeat them first, and Shepard knows that.  If we have to deal with TIM and his collector base after the reapers?  I'm not too concerned.

I can see what you are trying to say but the evil of his actions, and his intentions, can never be justified. He ressurected Shepard because he wanted to use Shepard for humanity's, and more so his, advance. If you learned of how Anderson got kicked out of Spectres (Sarren killed 500 innocents with pollution just to get one guy wanted by the Council) You can see where the ideology of my statement comes from. Theres a time to be harsh, even a renegade, but people like TIM and Sarren don't realize that should be the last resort

Saren got the job done, isnt that what really matters?

The end isn't enough to justify the means. If the factory had to be destroyed, then the workers and other populace could have been saved. Catching one man doesn't justify the death of 500 innocents. Cerberus is the same. The terrorism they use to do what they think is right is wrong in every sense of the word

The mission always comes first. Thats why Saren was such a good Specter.

The mission doesn't come first in the sense of right. In the sense of neutrality maybe so, but life comes first. If you must let one wanted man get away to keep yourself from killing 100 innocent people, isn't that better than murdering defenseless people?

[Zhijn]

With this i bid you Tali-crackers goodnight.

[tiberius_adamantine]

alickar wrote...

need a tali pic please to stop this nonsense

IDK...some people get immune to something if exposed for too long. In this case it is a horible, horible
thought, but just in case. So one should be immune to Tali, no one.

[Jake71887]

alickar wrote...

need a tali pic please to stop this nonsense

Modifié par Jake71887, 27 février 2010 - 04:11 .